What's on your mind?

[Thatguy]

11 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Still can't believe those idiots at Bandbond managed to quite so comprehensively fuck up a metal-centric new platform that may have ticked all the boxes I was looking for. 

Yeah. I thought Bandbond looked like a great idea at first, but there ended up being so few bands on it that I can't remember the last time I looked at it. If they made it hard for you to get on what a bunch of fuckwits.

15 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I have just learned (courtesy Google) that surprisingly (to me anyway) Australia is home to the world's largest herd of camels, 750,000 of them roaming wild in the outback. And you thought roos were a pain in the ass.

And they are a fucking menace. Feral horses are worse. We can them brumbies and horsie lovers fawn on them as they destroy the environment of the alpine national parks.

1 hour ago, KillaKukumba said:

Things are picking up here and local bands are doing regional tours

I was going to see the Oils this weekend but they had to postpone because the drummer tested positive to COVID. I have supported all the health precautions over the last few years, but I can't see the point of testing dudes who are going to be on-stage and a long way from me when the audience is not tested. The whole band and crew will have to quarantine I guess, then again when the next one tests positive I presume...

[AlSymerz]

15 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

And they are a fucking menace. Feral horses are worse. We can them brumbies and horsie lovers fawn on them as they destroy the environment of the alpine national parks.

 

Yeah it's atrocious what the horses have done to the high country. The idea that the farmers, local cattlemen and local groups didn't look after the country that was so valuable to their livelihoods and therefore it was worth kicking them out and letting the feral horses have free reign is a disgrace.

18 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I was going to see the Oils this weekend but they had to postpone because the drummer tested positive to COVID. I have supported all the health precautions over the last few years, but I can't see the point of testing dudes who are going to be on-stage and a long way from me when the audience is not tested. The whole band and crew will have to quarantine I guess, then again when the next one tests positive I presume...

Yeah things are kind of weird in the music industry here. On one side of the country everything is open and crowds are welcome to spread anything they have, while on the other side of the country we have open travel but outdoor gigs are only allowed 500 people. Right or wrong the rules are making it hard for all bands trying to get things back on track.

[blaaacdoommmmfan]

6 hours ago, H34VYM3T4LD4V3 said:

@blaaacdoommmmfan @KillaKukumba 

Went to see Blaze live again last week! He was performing only 20 minutes drive away from my house and only cost me £15!! Great night, I was at the front the whole time there were about 200 people there but I was right up front next to the speaker 😂😂 he made eye contact with me at several times and when singing virus he pointed at me while singing it was so epic, and he sang the song I really wanted him to sing being The Man Who Would Not Die!! Brilliant night and I got my Iron Maiden X Factor and Blaze - TMWWND CD’s signed plus I got to meet him again! Brilliant night it was, but then a couple days after I got a cough and cold and found out i’m covid positive 😂 so been off work for a week mostly in bed lol, oh yeah and after the concert my hearing took nearly 2 days to recover!! 😂

Sounds fantastic show apart from you getting COVID and temporary affect to hearing.  Man I would have loved to have been there. Is blaze better live than record. The live stuff I've heard I like alot. 

The man who would not die is great track which I like alot. Live would be amazing.   

Of course he pointed at you. You've had autographs so I'm sure he was pleased to see you there having fantastic time well that's assuming he can see much. Fans having great time is what it's about.  

Getting that stuff signed. That's so cool. 

 

20 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Baby girl Zoe was delivered by C-section just after 10 this morning. Mom and daughter are doing well, currently resting. Bandcamp and hangovers can wait.

Well done all, such good news. You can educate Zoe about proper music😉 

[RelentlessOblivion]

That’s great news So glad to hear it.

so glad to hear it.

 

Also the concert talk above is reminding me the last gig I went to was Obituary pre-pandemic damn that’s two years ago already…

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

2 hours ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Sounds fantastic show apart from you getting COVID and temporary affect to hearing.  Man I would have loved to have been there. Is blaze better live than record. The live stuff I've heard I like alot. 

The man who would not die is great track which I like alot. Live would be amazing.   

Of course he pointed at you. You've had autographs so I'm sure he was pleased to see you there having fantastic time well that's assuming he can see much. Fans having great time is what it's about.  

Getting that stuff signed. That's so cool. 

Yeah Covid sucks and my hearings fine now lol, was totally worth it! Hehe, I would go and see him again definitely, he is so good with his audience and is very appreciative of his fans, you always feel part of his show hes very interactive and his voice is awesome the band that played first I couldnt hear the guys voice too well but Blaze’s voice is so clear and powerful it was indeed a great show definitely see him live if you can

 

When The Man Who Would Not Die came on I started full on headbanging it was amazing to hear it live and when he pointed at me and sang at me it was ace, never been so close I even shook his hand while he was on stage, great experience and when I said hi to him after he was more than happy to sign my cd’s and shirt and take a picture

[Dead1]

5 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

 

Half your luck, we had what the media is calling our first post-covid international band playing here last weekend and it was only the Foo Fighters. I'm pretty sure we've had other bands from overseas here recently but they were not media friendly so they don't make the news. Things are picking up here and local bands are doing regional tours but international tours are still slow so I don't expect to see anyone much here, even guys like Blaze who will only play small venues.

 

Given the way fuel prices are going, I suspect Australia will be off limits for most overseas bands like it was in early 2000s when the low value of the Aussie dollar kept them away.

[RelentlessOblivion]

I’m sure even local bands will slow down there tours with our current fuel prices. Probably a good thing I can’t drive so I don’t have to worry about that honestly.

[AlSymerz]

26 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

 

Given the way fuel prices are going, I suspect Australia will be off limits for most overseas bands like it was in early 2000s when the low value of the Aussie dollar kept them away.

Yeah it will be interesting to see how that plays out. There will be some suffering from high fuel prices but that alone wont stop them. Everything from fuel, to insurance, to food will start rising and then the cost of putting on gigs will be so restrictive that agents wont book some bands while other will come but demand massive pay cheques.

5 minutes ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

I’m sure even local bands will slow down there tours with our current fuel prices. Probably a good thing I can’t drive so I don’t have to worry about that honestly.

While I do agree it will slow some down it is surprising what people will do. I've crossed the Nullarbor too many times to count, I've done Isa to Darwin, and I'd done Darwin to Perth on some of the shittiest roads you can imagine and many times I've seen fuel over $2 a litre but people are still driving around the country. 2005 was the highest I ever saw fuel with the Nullarbor peaking at around $2.25l and between Isa and the NT border pushing $2.60l. But the one thing that didn't stop was tourists and travellers. The fuel companies know this and that is why they aren't overly worried about increasing prices where ever they see fit.

 

[RelentlessOblivion]

Which works until you realise cost of living is increasing faster than people‘s wages, there reaches a point where the average person simply can’t afford to fill up their car. It’s even worse when most servos are OTR so there’s not even competitors offering cheaper prices to stabilise the cost of fuel.

[AlSymerz]

Yes and the same fears were thrown about in the early 2000's when everything skyrocketed in price, yet here we are nearly 20 years on still discussing it. I'm not denying that some people will struggle, they will struggle with the entire cost of living increasing, but people also survive. In 2007 while delivering bread, at a time when things were improving generally across the country, the company I worked for increased their prices 7 times using reasons like fuel prices, drivers wages, cost of ingredients. Each time the ACCC accepted and approved of the rises and each time consumers accepted the price rises without screams of boycotting the company, or other such shit. The same company had been increasing their product prices gradually throughout every year of the 2000's but not often enough to attract the eyes of the ACCC. 15 years on and the same products are on the shelves for up to 30% more and people are still buying the shit in record numbers.

Look at the shit fights in this country a few years ago with Coles and Woolies were supposedly selling milk too cheap. With their hearts in their hands the big supermarkets decided to increase the cost by 10c a litre with the promise of passing the 10c on to the farmer. Go forward 3 years everyone's forgotten about the farmers and milk has increased at minimum another 20 cents a litre with the extra being scooped up in the supermarket coffers, and no one has even raised an eye brow.

The cost of living may well be increasing faster than people's wages but people have a way of adapting and the supermarkets, fuel companies, etc etc know that, in fact they rely on it. It sucks that these things happen but people will still travel the country, people will still rely on transport and people will still survive.

[Dead1]

Don't forget ladies and gents that Australia is the country of debt.  

In 2021 Australia's household debt was 4th highest in the world after Norway, Netherlands and Denmark.  Private debt is 212% of household income and 129% of total GDP.  Mortgage rates are highest  in OECD.  And it's going up, up, up.

 

Only problem is with high inflation and stagnant wages, ability to service loans get harder.

 

 

[RelentlessOblivion]

Hence social mobility in Australia being lower than ever before, how does one move up a social class when the cost of living paired with that Spierling debt conspire to ensure the average Australians focus remains squarely on keeping a roof over their head, and food on the table, for another week? This is, of course, a problem which could easily be circumvented by the introduction of universal basic income but a bill such as that would never pass because it necessitates the closing of corporate tax loopholes and increasing taxes on the wealthy. 

[AlSymerz]

Does one have to move up the social class? If people want to move up then there is ways and means, sometimes there is hurdles and other times there is windfalls but if one is content in the class they are in why do they need to climb?

Debt is an obvious issue but debt in this country is out of control because too few people understand money. They get loans they can't service because the bank said it was okay. They buy things on credit because they want things today not when they have the money. They get overdrafts and extra loans without thoughts on how they will pay them off when interest rates increase. They get credit cards to pay off credit cards. They think pay day loans are a good option. But mostly because they haven't learnt, or wanted to lean how to manage money. People do run into bad luck, people do suffer all sorts of things that set their life back, but more people in this country struggle with the money they have than struggle with the money they don't have.

Corporate loopholes should definitely be closed, but it's not as simple as willing these loopholes closed, there are ramifications that ripple down all the way to the average worker. Increasing tax on the wealthy is also not that simple, making the extremely wealthy actually pay their share of tax would be a better option. But to just pluck a figure out of the air, call that wealthy and expect those people to pay more than half of every dollar they earn in tax isn't fair, just like a basic wage is not fair to all.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Yes there are ramifications, yes they do need to be some incentives in place to transition into an economy which could sustain the shift, however it’s misleading to state more people struggle with the money they have then what they don’t. Remember that social mobility is referring to one’s ability to move up a class, if we look at it more broadly the trends suggest degeneration following mine as an example are statistically more likely to form a class then to sustain it. As in if I am middle class the generation following is more likely to fall into lower class then stay where they are.  This is definitely an issue exacerbated by the vastly different rates of increase in wage and inflation. 

[AlSymerz]

It's not misleading, by the sounds of it you're assuming my comment was aimed at the life struggle of the two groups which was not my intention. People not willing to learn, or never been given the opportunity to learn about money lead to more bankruptcy, debt and loan foreclosures than those on lower incomes. People who need to account for every dollar, watch everything they spend so as to assure they still have a dollar to spend next week, in general, make less money mistakes than those who don't have to account for every dollar spent.

The obsession with class is bullshit. The social class my parents grew up in had little to no bearing on the social class I am. I am what I am because I made the efforts I did at a younger age, if I moved a class I wouldn't know because I don't care enough to judge myself, or others, by class. The same goes for my kids, they create their own social class, if they want to name it or fit into some category that names them middle, low, or even high, I'll help them where I can but ultimately it's up to them, not me. The same thing goes for any other person. If it helps people to aim for these classes, then that's their choice but honestly the less focus for me meant more drive. I'm sure I could offer up my earnings, my estate and my goods and chattels for someone to put me in a class but I'm just not interested in such classifications.

I guess my whole view comes from the fact that I have never cared what others earned, what they owned, what they owed. If I wanted a pay rise, when I wasn't working for myself, I hit the boss with reasons why I deserved it, if I didn't get it I reassessed whether I needed to work hard/better, or find another job. I never looked at someone else I worked along side and wondered if they made more money, or had a wage increase I didn't. If that's class moving then again I say it's down to the person, not some definition.

[Dead1]

I think class is a thing even in Australia.  There is huge and massive cultural differences between working class and upper class.

I have dealt with upper middle class people my whole working life (stockbroking and then health with doctors) and they are very different to us working class people (even though my income is no longer working class) in terms of norms and value 

I even saw it at uni which is meant to be a leveller but where working class "bogans" like me really struggled to fit in.

[Stormblaast]

What's on my mind right now is that I'm heartbroken for Ukraine 💔, and also scared of where the war might progress to next.
My country borders to Russia (just slightly), there's never been a war between us before, but there are signs to indicate that this might change sometime in the future 😟

[Sheol]

Speaking of fuel, I went to buy groceries today and the price of fuel had risen 0.35 SEK while I was away! It's sitting comfortably at 23.34 SEK/liter now. Diesel is 28.22 SEK/liter.

[navybsn]

55 minutes ago, Sheol said:

Speaking of fuel, I went to buy groceries today and the price of fuel had risen 0.35 SEK while I was away! It's sitting comfortably at 23.34 SEK/liter now. Diesel is 28.22 SEK/liter.

That's $9 US per gallon. You would see riots in the streets and public buildings burning in the States if it gets to that point here. I do think there is a tipping point with fuel prices where the economy will suffer immensely. To Kuke's point earlier, we do manage to adjust to higher prices to a degree, but there is a point where it is no longer profitable to get out of bed in the morning. Supplies can't be delivered or are not affordable, supply chains become more strained than they are now, business at the end of the supply chains can no longer afford to operate or can't get staff to come to work (because it's not affordable). Shit could get sideways quick. I know there have been these sort of doomsday predictions for years, but this time it feels different. We've been playing chicken for so long as a society that we've lost fear of real and present danger. And no one in any position to avoid the looming catastrophe seems interested in doing anything other than enriching themselves and their friends or using the situation for political gain.

[SurgicalBrute]

In theory, Kuke is right. Price increases are usually accompanied by proportional increases in people's paychecks. Price goes up, charge gets passed to consumer, people demand more money for work, companies increase pay because they need workers to stay in business. The problem is that those adjustments don't happen immediately. It's in that window of time businesses make big money, and the average person gets fucked over. Oil prices will most likely even out and readjust as people find alternative, but how long that takes is anyone's guess, and in the meantime we're all screwed

[AlSymerz]

Even without wage rises the majority of people (in Oz at least) have still managed to afford the price increases brought in by companies over the last ten years while average wage growth has been low to stagnant. Obviously there is a point where things get too expensive and people stop spending money on those things, but over the last 50 odd years in this country the price point of everything has not reached that point. If it does we'll be screwed, but I don't see that happening, at least not to the majority of the country.

 

9 hours ago, Dead1 said:

I think class is a thing even in Australia.  There is huge and massive cultural differences between working class and upper class.

I have dealt with upper middle class people my whole working life (stockbroking and then health with doctors) and they are very different to us working class people (even though my income is no longer working class) in terms of norms and value 

I even saw it at uni which is meant to be a leveller but where working class "bogans" like me really struggled to fit in.

We've all dealt with these classes, but it's how you deal with them that makes a difference.

If someone at shops is seen wearing a Cannibal Corpse t-shirt, holey jeans with the arse hanging out, combat boots with no laces, dreadlocks, a shaggy beard and a bottle of wine in a paper bag the majority of people will judge that person by their look. If the same person is seen in a dinner jacket, trousers, a bow tie, short, brushed hair, pointy ties shoes and a swagger they are more than likely judged differently. They haven't automatically leapt class just because they have changed clothes, they probably haven't even changed attitude, but the perception of others is many an varied.

If we don't on judge minor things like class, appearance and perceived value the worth of those things diminish. If we don't spend our time focusing on those things in other people we can then spend more time focusing on ourselves and making our own lives better.

[Dead1]

2 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

Even without wage rises the majority of people (in Oz at least) have still managed to afford the price increases brought in by companies over the last ten years while average wage growth has been low to stagnant. Obviously there is a point where things get too expensive and people stop spending money on those things, but over the last 50 odd years in this country the price point of everything has not reached that point. If it does we'll be screwed, but I don't see that happening, at least not to the majority of the country.

 

We've all dealt with these classes, but it's how you deal with them that makes a difference.

If someone at shops is seen wearing a Cannibal Corpse t-shirt, holey jeans with the arse hanging out, combat boots with no laces, dreadlocks, a shaggy beard and a bottle of wine in a paper bag the majority of people will judge that person by their look. If the same person is seen in a dinner jacket, trousers, a bow tie, short, brushed hair, pointy ties shoes and a swagger they are more than likely judged differently. They haven't automatically leapt class just because they have changed clothes, they probably haven't even changed attitude, but the perception of others is many an varied.

If we don't on judge minor things like class, appearance and perceived value the worth of those things diminish. If we don't spend our time focusing on those things in other people we can then spend more time focusing on ourselves and making our own lives better.

 

 

As mentioned Australian debt levels are astronomic.  It's actually been a silent part of the equation of rising living standards in this country since the 1980s.   No one really talks about it (much like up to recently immigration wasn't mentioned as one of several main reason wages growth is stagnant).   People can "afford" price rises as long as they have access to easy debt, which in reality means they can't afford it.

 

That also creates a trap for many Australians who are financially illiterate (not surprising in a country where 30-50% of people are functionally illiterate).  I've known many people who have gone bankrupt or had to have their elderly parents financially intervene to save them despite these people being in their 30s and on decent wages.

---

As for class perception/values.

I actually have worn a suit and tie for most of my working life and am better dressed than some of the upper middle class people I work with.  Shit, I am wearing a suit right now!  I am also clean shaven and I haven't had long hair since 1999.

 

The difference is in attitudes and perspectives on everything else.  Their expectations of upper middle class are totally different to lower class people eg an obsession with sending kids to elite schools (not just private but elite private),  not understanding concepts such as volunteering except from a religious perspective.  They are often more religious and surprisingly more conservative in many things.  They also tend to view people below them with a degree of disdain.   Their whole world view is viewed from perspective of upper middle class be it worker relations, ideas on social equity (generally none cause the lower classes are "lazy buggers" etc) etc.

I will admit a large portion of these people are from countries with natural caste/class systems ala India.   But white Australians are the same.  My wife who grew up rural also talks a lot about the class gulf between rural poor (where she comes from) and the rural elite, many of whom have owned the same farms since colonial times.

 

 

[Dead1]

5 hours ago, SurgicalBrute said:

In theory, Kuke is right. Price increases are usually accompanied by proportional increases in people's paychecks. Price goes up, charge gets passed to consumer, people demand more money for work, companies increase pay because they need workers to stay in business. The problem is that those adjustments don't happen immediately. It's in that window of time businesses make big money, and the average person gets fucked over. Oil prices will most likely even out and readjust as people find alternative, but how long that takes is anyone's guess, and in the meantime we're all screwed

 

Hasn't necessarily happened in Australia since 2008.  Real wages growth relative (ie difference between wages growth & CPI) has grown about 5.3% in period 2009-2018.  

However the CPI is skewed as it is a basket of goods.  Things are weighted and not necessarily realistic (eg proportion of money spent on rent or loan repayments is really low).  It also doesn't include "stealth" inflation eg where a product might be the same price but quantity has shrunk which means it's more expensive per litre/kilogram.

The CPI in period 2009-18 has grown about 23%.  Yet here are the actual 10 year price increases for basic services:

https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Departments/Parliamentary_Library/pubs/BriefingBook46p/CostLiving

Electricity - 101%

Medical - 79%

Gas and household fuels - 76%

Child Care - 75%

Water & Sewerage - 69%

Education - anywhere from 56-67% depending on whether  secondary or primary

 

What's gone down?  Discretionary spending items ala electronic, clothes, toys and hobbies.

Cost of buying a house isn't included in CPI because it would blow out big time - houses in Sydney grew by 146% over 10 year period in 2011-21  and most capital cities doubled. 

Rents are included in CPI but for some reason data is hard to find.  They have been on the increase and far outstripping CPI - eg in 2020-21 they grew 6.6% compared to only 1.3% for CPI .

So whilst we've had supposed "real income" growth over 10 years, actual inflation data shows the cost of basic services has increased far more than the CPI shows.

In reality your average Australian household is now poorer than they were in 2009.

 

And note none of this includes last couple of years where property went through the roof as did cost of fuel and groceries.

But as former finance minister, Matthias Cormann, openly admitted on TV, low wages growth is a "deliberate design feature of our economic system."

This has been a goal pursued by Australian governments since Bob Hawke was elected in 1983.

Hawke was an ex-union man but effectively destroyed unions in most industries (as well as killing off a few manufacturing industries where there was a large % of unionised workers) through a thing called the Prices and Income Awards Accords which was designed to stifle union's seeking higher pay (and in turn deterred Australian workers from seeking union membership).

You then had many governments introducing various things to kill employee bargaining power, the most infamous being Work Choices (which was never really rolled back).

Other things the government has done to reduce power of labour to negotiate better salaries and wages:

1. Jack up immigration rate to one of largest in OECD and make it easier to import labour especially fixed term immigrant labour who are massively exploited.  Basically this is economics 101 - ramp up supply relative to demand to decrease value of supply.

2. Introduce more flexibility and greater casualisation ( "0 hour" contract) of labour.  

3. Limit and in some cases making illegal union/workplace industrial action.

4. Rules changes to emphasis 'individual" bargaining which incidentally doesn't work in most industries due to supply.

5. Government minimum wage setting body has now started decreasing 

In 1980 wages component of GDP was around 60%, they are now down to 46% nd continuing to plummet.

 

-----

 

Oh and USA is same - real wages have been stagnant since 1979.

 

https://www.epi.org/publication/americas-slow-motion-wage-crisis-four-decades-of-slow-and-unequal-growth-2/

 

This is neoliberal capitalism in action.

 

 

[AlSymerz]

I'm not denying that there is differences between classes, but I do think people need to stop focusing on them and using them as excuses. For some it's cries about the unfairness of others having more, or being able to afford more because they are in a higher class. For others it the suggestion that one class can't possibly have the stresses of the class below them, or even understand what that class struggles with. For some it's just an obsession that sees them thinking how much better off they'd be if they climbed that imaginary rung on the ladder. And yes, some just think they are better than anyone they perceive to be below them. If riding the ladder to a higher social class is what someone wants then fine, but not everyone thinks the same, many don't give a shit that classes exist.

Society doesn't exist without classes. We can't all be on the same wage, wear the same clothes, live in the same houses, it just doesn't work that way. But society could (theoretically) stop making such a big deal of the classes. Stop making it a war between the Have's and Have Not's, and treat people equally no matter which rung of the invisible ladder they are on. Let people accept that some people have more, some have less, some with more even help some with less and vice versa. We're all humans, but the more time we spend focusing on others, or wishing to be others, the less time we spend focusing on ourself and our own growth.

 

[Dead1]

When the upper classes work so hard to kick the lower classes in the face, then class matters.

 

I was at a kid's birthday party (daughter's friend) listening to some rich guy brag on how he rips off his employees - he was so full of glee I literally wanted to put his head through a window.  The other equally wealthy parents were all nodding and agreeing.

 Or overhear some wealthy farmer at a coffee shop brag how he rips his immigrant workers off but they get to learn Australian values.  

Or listen to very well paid psychiatrists (around $400,000 per annum) write their patients off as worthless bogans.

Or listen to one of my former quite wealthy friends crap on about how capitalism is the only way and they need to slash welfare and regulation of industry.

Or when I started out in stock broking, I was exploited (found out they fudged the position description to be able to switch Awards), was actually abused for my lower accent and staff openly laughed at me for liking plain things.  In my very first job at an accounting firm, I was told they were happy to employ someone from my background (poor, immigrant from worst part of town) - oh and they ripped me off too - they included superannuation in the package but never specified it was included - I was on literal minimum wage.  

And I've known plenty of lower class people in retail and hospitality as well as lower level administration jobs  who are being exploited by their rich privileged bosses via what is essentially blackmail - "if you complain or seek proper wages, you won't get any hours" or "if you don't convert from permanent to casual, we will sack you".    And I've known people who have complained or fought for their rights and then were sacked. 

 

And it's not just anecdotal evidence - eg wage theft costs the Australian workers billions of dollars in income every year.  As Macrobusiness said: "wage theft is not a kink in the system, it is the system."

 

https://www.smh.com.au/business/workplace/australia-s-shocking-wage-theft-scandals-keep-coming-by-the-truckload-20210312-p57a5p.html

 

https://independentaustralia.net/business/business-display/wage-theft-still-amounts-to-big-bickies-despite-new-laws,15992 

 

And who are the people who get in these positions of power and then exploit people - the upper middle and upper class who go to all the right schools and have all the opportunities in the world.  

 

Quote

But society could (theoretically) stop making such a big deal of the classes. Stop making it a war between the Have's and Have Not's, and treat people equally no matter which rung of the invisible ladder they are on. Let people accept that some people have more, some have less, some with more even help some with less and vice versa. We're all humans, but the more time we spend focusing on others, or wishing to be others, the less time we spend focusing on ourself and our own growth.

Our own growth?  You realise poor people struggle to pay the bills let alone have time for growth.

 

I was lucky there was still some equality in Australia in 1990s/early 2000s so I could go to University with a bit of work and not come out with a ton of debt.

These days it's getting harder and harder - poor people struggle to find housing and then pay for it.  Higher education is so astronomically expensive and no longer a guarantee of higher incomes or even a career (https://www.smh.com.au/education/young-face-prolonged-disruption-as-degrees-no-longer-guarantee-careers-20210823-p58l4r.html).  

  Fuel is so expensive as is power and housing is even more expensive.

 

How do you think a poor person is going to "grow" themselves when they're struggling to find a house let alone pay the rent pay for electricity, a car (essential in our society especially in Tassie where public transport is crap and also expensive - it would costs my family $55 a day to travel to work and back on a bus and we'd still have to walk child 3 km to school compared to maybe $15 in a car) etc etc?

 

I think your attitudes are a bit stuck in the old days when Australia was a much more equitable place and life was cheaper. 

 I think it's something the white boomer/gen X middle class doesn't get in Australia.  They say "back in my day" but you could get a well paid protected job instantly (my dad got his first job in this country in 1982 by merely walking into Sheridan textille factory and asking the manager if there was any work, today you have to compete with dozens of others).  And houses and rents weren't so expensive (only 4 times average income, not 7-10)  and neither were the utilities ala power because they were owned by the government and run as a social service not profit enterprise.