What Are You Listening To?

[AlSymerz]

Motherslug - The Electric Dunes Of Titan

[Thatguy]

VEILBURNER - VBRNR. Pretty good. Not as dissonant as advertised.

VACUOUS - Dreams of Dysphoria. Pleasant.

IMHA TARIKAT - Hearts Unchained - At War With A Passionless World. A bit bland. I'm beginning to think that the length of an album's title is inversely proportional to its quality.

I've never listened to Bauhaus either.

 

[Dead1]

Beethoven - 9th Symphony 9 - Movement IV  - "Ode To Joy" - well sometimes even I listen to nonmetal!

Candlemass - Nightfall

Darkthrone - Astral Fortress

Enforcer - From Beyond

And for the metal part, yes I was in a Nordic mood!

[Serpentboi1992]

[AlSymerz]

Solemn Ceremony - Demise

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

4 hours ago, markm said:

Funny, just a few years older or younger like me and GG can make a big difference back when music was changing rapidly, then throw in regional/cultural differences potentially. Much less a decade as between you and I.

I didn't get into Nirvana until well after Nevermind. I'm still not a huge fan but I've got some of their music and definitely respect Cobain's influence. I did like Alice N Chains and Soundgarden a whole lot though.

I sure walled myself off from a lot of music. I think a lot of people form their tastes in middle school. That was 78-80 for me right before alternative became a thing nationwide. I've always felt I had one foot in the classic rock I grew up with and the other in metal and heavier alt rock later. Growing up with tons of Beatles and 60's folk can't be ignored.

And, like there was a lot of music in the ether from The Who, CCR, The Doors, Zeppelin, Sabbath, AC/DC, Skynyrd, The Stones still around in the early 80's.  Some Girls came out in 78. Back In Black was all over the airways when I was a Freshman. 

I liked the first few Costello albums and I always liked The Ramones and The Clash. When I was in high school, I recall hear Ramones, Ziggy Stardust era Bowie, Rocky Horror Picture Show, Violent Femmes, Devo, R.E.M., and hardcore in the background. But we also had the vestiges of psychadelia and dead heads in the hallways.

I thought punk was garbage until the grunge era. By the time R.E.M got big and alternative rock was getting mass popularity, my tastes were pretty set with AC/DC and Priest and I thought most of the 80's alternative and I guess what you're calling goth and early post punk was for pussies. I was pretty closed minded. 

When I was a Freshman in college, I went to Emerson college for a year in Boston until my Dad yanked me out due to the $14,000 out of state tuition without any real financial aid on his salary. That was 84/85. I was all over hair metal and Accept. I remember seeing local hair metal bands. Saw Twisted Sister with Dokken with this friend who was also into punk. He kept telling me that the he felt the better stuff was in punk. He thought the future was punk/HC with trends in metal. He saw it coming. 

I was pursuing mass communications as a degree and got involved with their radio station. It was mostly post punk, alternative pop and I hated it. The cool kids were all into bands like siouxsie and the banshees and Roxy Music. Of course Prince, Whitney Houston and Michael Jackson were all over the airwaves. 

But there was this one guy who had a popular weekend metal show called Nasty Habits.  He played a lot of underground stuff with a fair amount of hardcore. I started listening to Motorhead. That show hipped me to Metallica. That's where things started to change.

Then, from 85-90 I went to James Madison University in Virginia and it was alternative non stop with most of my friends. But I never kinned to the folksy R.E.M. sound even though I've always liked actual folk and couldn't be bothered with Sonic Youth. Finally, I guess it was some Pixies and Dinosaur Jr. that opened me up a little more. And Then, Soundgarden's Loud Love.   And stuff like Red Hot Chili Peppers, the album Jane's Addiction and NIN switched things up for me.....but only a little

I'm thinking back in 90-Seasons in the Abyss, Persistence of Time, Slave to the Grind, Lights, Camera, Revolution, The Mind is a Terrible Thing to Taste and Cowboys From Hell got much more ear time than Blood Sugar Sex Magik and Nothing's Shocking. 

Enjoyed your post Mark.

I don't agree with people forming their musical taste in middle school. I mean obviously many people do, if not middle school (for me that was '73 to '76) then certainly in high school or in college, but whenever it is it's usually by or before the age of 21. Whenever they find something that does it for them most people just kinda go with that and stop looking. So I'm not gonna argue that point, but that's why we call them 'casuals' because they stop searching and just go with whatever they've found, whatever's easiest. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be that way. We all start forming our musical tastes in our childhood school days as most of us seem to discover and become interested in listening to music beyond simple nursery rhymes and commercial jingles sometime between the ages of 8 and 12. But for many of us with a modicum of intelligence and curiosity that desire to explore new music never stops, and some of our tastes can be a continally changing and evolving thing.

I knew from a fairly young age (12 - 14) that for me: heavier = better, distorted guitars are better than clean, amp feedback and fuzz pedals were cool, raw & dirty appealed to me much more than slick, polished and professional, and when in doubt, turn everything up to 11. But beyond those basic fundamental principles, I feel like I really formed most of what I think of as my core musical sensibilities in my mid to late 40's. (mid to late oughts) And I'm sure I'm not done yet, as music continues to change and evolve and I expose myself to new things (even if they're old things) my tastes will change and evolve as well. At least they always have in the past, my musical taste has never stayed constant for very long, I think this goat metal rennaisance we're in the midst of right now for the last decade or so is the longest I've ever stayed locked onto one thing. Could be my true calling, could be a passing phase, only time will tell. 

Like you, I guess you could say I walled myself off from a lot of music when I was younger, but I don't think of it that way. Walled-off isn't the right term because that inane mainstream bullshit music was everywhere, the phrase "all over the airwaves" meant a lot more back then because for us kids in the 70's radio was where we looked for new music. And the rock mags at the supermarket. There was nowhere to escape from shitty mainstream music unless you locked yourself away in a room somewhere with no electronics and consciously went out of your way to avoid it. So I didn't wall myself off from it as much as I just rejected it and learned to detest it and by my later teens I actively campaigned against it. I was only too happy to regale anyone who'd listen back in my teens and 20's all about how vehemently I despised mainstream garbage music and how all the good music was a well kept secret you had to hunt for. 

Most of that 70's crap you mentioned in your post from Elvis Costello to Devo to the Who to the post Jones 70's Stones to the Doors to Roxy Music...I despised it all then and I still despise it all now. Some of the other stuff you mentioned came later for me after I was already out of school and working, like 1980's Back in Black for instance, or RHCP & NIN which came much later still. But for the record I don't lump 70's and early 80's AC/DC in with the Who and the Kinks and CCR and the Doors and Fleetwood Mac, they were part of a newer generation of harder rocking bands and they hadn't become radio darlings yet back then, at least not in NY anyway.

My opinion has always been that almost all of that "classic rock" crap from the 60's & 70's was rubbish foisted upon me by the record industry suits. With a few notable exceptions it got listened to simply because that's just what they pushed on us consumers on the radio back then (and their rock playlists haven't changed in nearly 50 years!!) and as a 70's kid with no money I had precious few options for methods to explore any alternatives to mainstream music. If it hadn't been for finding Zeppelin and Sabbath and later the Ramones (none of these came to me by way of the radio) I don't know how I would have survived my 1970's teen years. But unlike many folks my age I've never felt like I had one foot rooted in the classic rock I grew up with, nor did I ever feel like it was my generation's music, even though it does seem as if the overwhelming majority of my 2nd wave of baby boomer peers really do genuinely dig that stuff. Yes, even as a kid I knew classic rock was just some bullshit I'd have to tolerate in my youth just until something better came along. And I always had faith that something better was on the way. I was probably born to early.

I graduated hs in June of '79, so as far as the post-punk movement specifically, I believe that gained real momentum mostly in the early 80's after I was already out of school. (but you were still in) My big problem with that whole scene was mainly just the soft-cock effeminate male vocals put me right off. I suppose music for pussies as you put it sums up my feelings toward it pretty well. You can call me a homophobe if you like, but I don't see myself that way as I have no problem with homosexuals, this isn't a gay/straight issue at all as I see it, it's just a vocal style issue. I really don't care which vocalists might be gay and which are straight, it's absolutely none of my concern and I don't think it makes you gay to listen to post-punk or anything like that, I just don't appreciate being serenaded with that effeminate lilt you hear on so many post-punk records, regardless of anyone's actual sexual preferences. It almost seems as if the male PP voclaists are all required to sing that way to even qualify as post-punk or something. Much like you recanted the tale of that Swans dude Michael Gira who didn't appreciate having the macho knuckle-dragging male testosterone fueled metal contingent infiltrating their scene and attending Swans shows, as one of those testosterone fueled, knuckle-dragging early 80's metal dudes I in turn did not appreciate the effeminate male vocal aesthetic infiltrating the rock music I listened to.

And that sentiment went far beyond just the sub-genre of post-punk, or even 80's pop. Mainstream rock artists of the day like Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, Squeeze, the Police, Rush, Toto, U2, Foreigner, Journey, Talking Heads, Devo....all of those very popular late 70's early 80's artists I rejected on the basis of them being nerds or having vocals that were just too effeminate for me, or both. I wanted harder they were giving us softer. You wanna call that attitude narrow-minded or walled-off or whatever that's fine, I'll accept that criticism. But I mean the way I see it I don't consciously choose what's going to appeal to me musically and what might push me away. On some level we all just like what we like and we can't always explain how or what or why that is. We all have to find our own level that pleases us. I like hard and heavy shit. The filthier the better. It is what it is, I don't feel like it's something I'll ever grow out of, and I don't feel like I should need to apologize for my tastes, nor should anyone else for theirs, not ever.

And yet I have been sincerely and consciously been trying to let my guard down and open my mind to some things finally here in my old age. Not to make ammends or whatever but purely for my own enrichment. Could be maybe some of that pussy music has some redeeming qualities and something to offer me after all. Although I admit I've only managed baby steps and for all I know this might be just about as far as I can go. Because I do still prefer my music to be heavy and sound masculine and macho and evil and violent and aggressive...as opposed to androgynous, effeminate, mellow and happy/sad, and I reckon at this point that's probably not ever going to truly change.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dead1 said:

sometimes even I listen to non-metal!

[Dead1]

Goatmaster,

I totally agree with your sentiment.  I too have "walled " myself off from popular or mainstream music as much as I can since the early 2000s.

I also hate effeminate soft pop vocals ala those used by Soilwork or Killswitch Engage in what is nominally extreme music. 

 

King Parrot - Bite Your Head Off  

Still buzzing on seeing these guys live again.  Somehow managed to find myself in the pit! 

[Thatguy]

21 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

Somehow managed to find myself in the pit! 

The last bloke I talked to who had been in the Parrot pit lost a tooth.

 

31 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

and later the Ramones

Interesting rant spoiled by praise of the Ramones. Thatguy hates the Ramones.

[AlSymerz]

8 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

The last bloke I talked to who had been in the Parrot pit lost a tooth.

Or you could be in the crowd at Guns And Roses and get two black eyes and a broken nose because Axl reportedly threw the mic at you. In Adelaide of all places, as if anyone from Adelaide could say where their black eyes came from with 100% certainty!

 

NP: Woe - Czernobog

 

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

23 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Thatguy hates the Ramones.

 

 

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

VEILBURNER - VBRNR. Pretty good. Not as dissonant as advertised.

That's why it's pretty good!

[GoatmasterGeneral]

Black Spell - Season of the Damned, Italy, don't know what this is, but I love it.

 

Wargoat/Black Ceremonial Kult - Unapproachable Laws of the Abyss (Split - Greece/Chili) 2018

 

[Dead1]

39 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

The last bloke I talked to who had been in the Parrot pit lost a tooth.

This wasn't quite that violent!  I would have stayed back if it got that nasty.

[RelentlessOblivion]

58 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Or you could be in the crowd at Guns And Roses and get two black eyes and a broken nose because Axl reportedly threw the mic at you. In Adelaide of all places, as if anyone from Adelaide could say where their black eyes came from with 100% certainty!

 

NP: Woe - Czernobog

 

 

Hey I’ve been to Werribee, Carlton, and Collingwood, you Vics make our worst suburbs look like Beverly Hills…

 

NP: Destruction - Imfernal Overkill

[AlSymerz]

The three best burbs we have to offer? That's why I choose to live no where near the city!

[JamesT]

AC/DC - "Powerage" (album)

Can't get enough of these legends

[navybsn]

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Somehow managed to find myself in the pit! 

I found myself in the pit at 3 shows this year (Mercyful Fate - not really a pit more pushing, shoving, and getting stepped on, Blood Incantation, and Demolition Hammer). 3 things I learned:

1) I am much too old for that bullshit. My neck is no longer tolerant of crowdsurfers being dropped on my head nor is the rest of me in anyway interested in the abuse.

2) Detracts from my enjoyment of the show. Yeah, I'm an old guy now, but standing back and watching the antics plus the band is far better than participating in said antics and missing the band.

3) I lose too much shit in the pit. Stainless water bottle, earpro, cell phone (more than once).

34 minutes ago, JamesT said:

AC/DC - "Powerage" (album)

Show me a better riff, I dare you. If you don't listen to this album at max volume, we can't be friends.

Riff Raff

 

[Dead1]

6 minutes ago, navybsn said:

I found myself in the pit at 3 shows this year (Mercyful Fate - not really a pit more pushing, shoving, and getting stepped on, Blood Incantation, and Demolition Hammer). 3 things I learned:

1) I am much too old for that bullshit. My neck is no longer tolerant of crowdsurfers being dropped on my head nor is the rest of me in anyway interested in the abuse.

2) Detracts from my enjoyment of the show. Yeah, I'm an old guy now, but standing back and watching the antics plus the band is far better than participating in said antics and missing the band.

3) I lose too much shit in the pit. Stainless water bottle, earpro, cell phone (more than once).

 

Agreed on all 3.  However my problem is deep down inside I am pretty fucking dumb.

 

Sepultura - Chaos AD

[navybsn]

3 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Enjoyed your post Mark.

I don't agree with people forming their musical taste in middle school. I mean obviously many people do, if not middle school (for me that was '73 to '76) then certainly in high school or in college, but whenever it is it's usually by or before the age of 21. Whenever they find something that does it for them most people just kinda go with that and stop looking. So I'm not gonna argue that point, but that's why we call them 'casuals' because they stop searching and just go with whatever they've found, whatever's easiest. I'm just saying it doesn't have to be that way. We all start forming our musical tastes in our childhood school days as most of us seem to discover and become interested in listening to music beyond simple nursery rhymes and commercial jingles sometime between the ages of 8 and 12. But for many of us with a modicum of intelligence and curiosity that desire to explore new music never stops, and some of our tastes can be a continally changing and evolving thing.

I knew from a fairly young age (12 - 14) that for me: heavier = better, distorted guitars are better than clean, amp feedback and fuzz pedals were cool, raw & dirty appealed to me much more than slick, polished and professional, and when in doubt, turn everything up to 11. But beyond those basic fundamental principles, I feel like I really formed most of what I think of as my core musical sensibilities in my mid to late 40's. (mid to late oughts) And I'm sure I'm not done yet, as music continues to change and evolve and I expose myself to new things (even if they're old things) my tastes will change and evolve as well. At least they always have in the past, my musical taste has never stayed constant for very long, I think this goat metal rennaisance we're in the midst of right now for the last decade or so is the longest I've ever stayed locked onto one thing. Could be my true calling, could be a passing phase, only time will tell. 

Like you, I guess you could say I walled myself off from a lot of music when I was younger, but I don't think of it that way. Walled-off isn't the right term because that inane mainstream bullshit music was everywhere, the phrase "all over the airwaves" meant a lot more back then because for us kids in the 70's radio was where we looked for new music. And the rock mags at the supermarket. There was nowhere to escape from shitty mainstream music unless you locked yourself away in a room somewhere with no electronics and consciously went out of your way to avoid it. So I didn't wall myself off from it as much as I just rejected it and learned to detest it and by my later teens I actively campaigned against it. I was only too happy to regale anyone who'd listen back in my teens and 20's all about how vehemently I despised mainstream garbage music and how all the good music was a well kept secret you had to hunt for. 

Most of that 70's crap you mentioned in your post from Elvis Costello to Devo to the Who to the post Jones 70's Stones to the Doors to Roxy Music...I despised it all then and I still despise it all now. Some of the other stuff you mentioned came later for me after I was already out of school and working, like 1980's Back in Black for instance, or RHCP & NIN which came much later still. But for the record I don't lump 70's and early 80's AC/DC in with the Who and the Kinks and CCR and the Doors and Fleetwood Mac, they were part of a newer generation of harder rocking bands and they hadn't become radio darlings yet back then, at least not in NY anyway.

My opinion has always been that almost all of that "classic rock" crap from the 60's & 70's was rubbish foisted upon me by the record industry suits. With a few notable exceptions it got listened to simply because that's just what they pushed on us consumers on the radio back then (and their rock playlists haven't changed in nearly 50 years!!) and as a 70's kid with no money I had precious few options for methods to explore any alternatives to mainstream music. If it hadn't been for finding Zeppelin and Sabbath and later the Ramones (none of these came to me by way of the radio) I don't know how I would have survived my 1970's teen years. But unlike many folks my age I've never felt like I had one foot rooted in the classic rock I grew up with, nor did I ever feel like it was my generation's music, even though it does seem as if the overwhelming majority of my 2nd wave of baby boomer peers really do genuinely dig that stuff. Yes, even as a kid I knew classic rock was just some bullshit I'd have to tolerate in my youth just until something better came along. And I always had faith that something better was on the way. I was probably born to early.

I graduated hs in June of '79, so as far as the post-punk movement specifically, I believe that gained real momentum mostly in the early 80's after I was already out of school. (but you were still in) My big problem with that whole scene was mainly just the soft-cock effeminate male vocals put me right off. I suppose music for pussies as you put it sums up my feelings toward it pretty well. You can call me a homophobe if you like, but I don't see myself that way as I have no problem with homosexuals, this isn't a gay/straight issue at all as I see it, it's just a vocal style issue. I really don't care which vocalists might be gay and which are straight, it's absolutely none of my concern and I don't think it makes you gay to listen to post-punk or anything like that, I just don't appreciate being serenaded with that effeminate lilt you hear on so many post-punk records, regardless of anyone's actual sexual preferences. It almost seems as if the male PP voclaists are all required to sing that way to even qualify as post-punk or something. Much like you recanted the tale of that Swans dude Michael Gira who didn't appreciate having the macho knuckle-dragging male testosterone fueled metal contingent infiltrating their scene and attending Swans shows, as one of those testosterone fueled, knuckle-dragging early 80's metal dudes I in turn did not appreciate the effeminate male vocal aesthetic infiltrating the rock music I listened to.

And that sentiment went far beyond just the sub-genre of post-punk, or even 80's pop. Mainstream rock artists of the day like Elvis Costello, Joe Jackson, Squeeze, the Police, Rush, Toto, U2, Foreigner, Journey, Talking Heads, Devo....all of those very popular late 70's early 80's artists I rejected on the basis of them being nerds or having vocals that were just too effeminate for me, or both. I wanted harder they were giving us softer. You wanna call that attitude narrow-minded or walled-off or whatever that's fine, I'll accept that criticism. But I mean the way I see it I don't consciously choose what's going to appeal to me musically and what might push me away. On some level we all just like what we like and we can't always explain how or what or why that is. We all have to find our own level that pleases us. I like hard and heavy shit. The filthier the better. It is what it is, I don't feel like it's something I'll ever grow out of, and I don't feel like I should need to apologize for my tastes, nor should anyone else for theirs, not ever.

And yet I have been sincerely and consciously been trying to let my guard down and open my mind to some things finally here in my old age. Not to make ammends or whatever but purely for my own enrichment. Could be maybe some of that pussy music has some redeeming qualities and something to offer me after all. Although I admit I've only managed baby steps and for all I know this might be just about as far as I can go. Because I do still prefer my music to be heavy and sound masculine and macho and evil and violent and aggressive...as opposed to androgynous, effeminate, mellow and happy/sad, and I reckon at this point that's probably not ever going to truly change.

 

 

I think that's a pretty reasonable position. We can't possibly like all music, but I think people should at least give something a go before rejecting it outright. I think of it like food. I'll try anything once. I may not like it, but unless I give it a try how would I know. I don't like cucumbers, pickles, or olives. You'll never see me put one in my mouth. I think they are disgusting, but I have tried them several times. I had an aversion to these as a kid, and since we all know our tastes change as we age, I've periodically given them a go to re-evaluate. I've done the same with music.

Back in the 80's, I had an aversion to classic rock (dad's music), goth/post-punk (loser kids), and country (fucking redneck shit). The older I get, the more I appreciate these specific styles. Classic rock - quite a bit of the non-radio regular songs (aka Deep Tracks) are pretty badass, and it takes me back to when pops and I had a good relationship before shit went sideways later in life. Post-punk - mainly for the musicianship and creativity. Peter Hook's brilliant bass lines, Robert Smith's lead guitar, Siouxie Sioux's vocal control, melodies, atmosphere. I would agree that much of it sucks, but the good shit is really good shit. Country - I just never appreciated it but old country, folk, and bluegrass can be just as raw, emotional, thought-provoking, and disturbing as any metal or rock. You gotta find the good stuff though. Not the crap you hear on the radio, then or now. Johnny Cash might be the most metal motherfucker that ever lived not named Lemmy. Some of it may be nostalgia for simpler times, but I think that's a) unavoidable and b) not necessarily a bad thing. Music is supposed to make you feel stuff, appreciate, enjoy, improve. Nostalgia is just another color in the crayola box.

All of our musical tastes are an accumulation of our likes, exposures, and life experiences. I came up playing in proper bands. Symphonic, jazz, and garage. I learned theory and composition as well. I trained on upright bass, electric bass, tuba, and trombone. So musicianship and composition speak to me more than the vocals. I can tolerate a less than stellar vocalist if everything else is in order, but I can also throw out something if the vocalist is terrible. Everyone comes to the table from a different direction, none of them are incorrect as long as they are not condemning everyone else for not going about it the "right" way. Just the fact that you're giving some of these bands a go is worthy of recognition. I revisit some bands I don't care for periodically in the same way I do cucumbers (olives will never get another shot) just to see if there's anything there I might enjoy these days. Might be Tool like a few nights ago or some overplayed 80's new wave like Tears for Fears. Sometimes I find something worthwhile, most times it goes back on the shelf for another go in a few years. You don't know unless you try.

And for the record, anyone who doesn't like the Ramones probably spent their life pursuing some mind-numbingly boring pursuit and has no sense of humor. Probably a drag at parties too.

[Dead1]

39 minutes ago, navybsn said:

Back in the 80's, I had an aversion to classic rock (dad's music), goth/post-punk (loser kids), and country (fucking redneck shit). The older I get, the more I appreciate these specific styles.

 

Bizarre thing is the older I get the more close minded I am about music.  I used to listen to more diverse music in my youth than I do now.  

 

Iron Maiden - Piece of Mind

[Thatguy]

42 minutes ago, navybsn said:

And for the record, anyone who doesn't like the Ramones probably spent their life pursuing some mind-numbingly boring pursuit and has no sense of humor. Probably a drag at parties too.

I feel the same way about anyone who hates olives.

[RelentlessOblivion]

34 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

 

Bizarre thing is the older I get the more close minded I am about music.  I used to listen to more diverse music in my youth than I do now.  

If anything I listen to more music now then ever, DSBM, punk, and to a lesser extent sludge habe all clicked for me this year.

[FatherAlabaster]

36 minutes ago, navybsn said:

I think that's a pretty reasonable position. We can't possibly like all music, but I think people should at least give something a go before rejecting it outright. I think of it like food. I'll try anything once. I may not like it, but unless I give it a try how would I know. I don't like cucumbers, pickles, or olives. You'll never see me put one in my mouth. I think they are disgusting, but I have tried them several times. I had an aversion to these as a kid, and since we all know our tastes change as we age, I've periodically given them a go to re-evaluate. I've done the same with music.

Back in the 80's, I had an aversion to classic rock (dad's music), goth/post-punk (loser kids), and country (fucking redneck shit). The older I get, the more I appreciate these specific styles. Classic rock - quite a bit of the non-radio regular songs (aka Deep Tracks) are pretty badass, and it takes me back to when pops and I had a good relationship before shit went sideways later in life. Post-punk - mainly for the musicianship and creativity. Peter Hook's brilliant bass lines, Robert Smith's lead guitar, Siouxie Sioux's vocal control, melodies, atmosphere. I would agree that much of it sucks, but the good shit is really good shit. Country - I just never appreciated it but old country, folk, and bluegrass can be just as raw, emotional, thought-provoking, and disturbing as any metal or rock. You gotta find the good stuff though. Not the crap you hear on the radio, then or now. Johnny Cash might be the most metal motherfucker that ever lived not named Lemmy. Some of it may be nostalgia for simpler times, but I think that's a) unavoidable and b) not necessarily a bad thing. Music is supposed to make you feel stuff, appreciate, enjoy, improve. Nostalgia is just another color in the crayola box.

All of our musical tastes are an accumulation of our likes, exposures, and life experiences. I came up playing in proper bands. Symphonic, jazz, and garage. I learned theory and composition as well. I trained on upright bass, electric bass, tuba, and trombone. So musicianship and composition speak to me more than the vocals. I can tolerate a less than stellar vocalist if everything else is in order, but I can also throw out something if the vocalist is terrible. Everyone comes to the table from a different direction, none of them are incorrect as long as they are not condemning everyone else for not going about it the "right" way. Just the fact that you're giving some of these bands a go is worthy of recognition. I revisit some bands I don't care for periodically in the same way I do cucumbers (olives will never get another shot) just to see if there's anything there I might enjoy these days. Might be Tool like a few nights ago or some overplayed 80's new wave like Tears for Fears. Sometimes I find something worthwhile, most times it goes back on the shelf for another go in a few years. You don't know unless you try.

And for the record, anyone who doesn't like the Ramones probably spent their life pursuing some mind-numbingly boring pursuit and has no sense of humor. Probably a drag at parties too.

Olives are great. I've always said, you meet a guy who doesn't like olives, you probably can't trust his other opinions either. I'd be inclined to agree with most of the rest of your post, even though Ramones are pretty much for the birds - and yes, painting and playing guitar are mind-numbingly boring, just ask my wife - but here you are, a guy who doesn't like olives, and it's put all of these other shared opinions on shaky ground. Maybe knee-jerk rejection based on vague pre-existing impressions is the way to go. Fucking olives man. A lot to mull over here.

[Dead1]

Could be worse, he could be a cannibal that only eats gooches (bit between arseholes and genitals).  You know just prowling around people's homes, slicing off their gooches in their sleep and then cooking the gooches and eating them with a Bessemer sauce, steamed vegetables and a nice pinot noir or merlot.

 

Don't ask where that came from.

[RelentlessOblivion]

19 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Olives are great. I've always said, you meet a guy who doesn't like olives, you probably can't trust his other opinions either. I'd be inclined to agree with most of the rest of your post, even though Ramones are pretty much for the birds - and yes, painting and playing guitar are mind-numbingly boring, just ask my wife - but here you are, a guy who doesn't like olives, and it's put all of these other shared opinions on shaky ground. Maybe knee-jerk rejection based on vague pre-existing impressions is the way to go. Fucking olives man. A lot to mull over here.

The more people who don’t like, olivess the better, that way there are more for me…

[markm]

5 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Enjoyed your post Mark.

I don't agree with people forming their musical taste in middle school. I mean obviously many people do, if not middle school (for me that was '73 to '76) then certainly in high school or in college, but whenever it is it's usually by or before the age of 21. Whenever they find something that does it for them most people just kinda go with that and stop looking. 

Like you, I guess you could say I walled myself off from a lot of music when I was younger, but I don't think of it that way. Walled-off isn't the right term because that inane mainstream bullshit music was everywhere, the phrase "all over the airwaves" 

 But for the record I don't lump 70's and early 80's AC/DC in with the Who and the Kinks and CCR and the Doors and Fleetwood Mac, they were part of a newer generation of harder rocking bands and they hadn't become radio darlings yet back then, at least not in NY anyway.

 

I graduated hs in June of '79, so as far as the post-punk movement specifically, I believe that gained real momentum mostly in the early 80's after I was already out of school. (but you were still in) My big problem with that whole scene was mainly just the soft-cock effeminate male vocals put me right off. I suppose music for pussies as you put it sums up my feelings toward it pretty well. You can call me a homophobe if you like, but I don't see myself that way as I have no problem with homosexuals, this isn't a gay/straight issue at all as I see it, it's just a vocal style issue. I really don't care which vocalists might be gay and which are straight, it's absolutely none of my concern and I don't think it makes you gay to listen to post-punk or anything like that, I just don't appreciate being serenaded with that effeminate lilt you hear on so many post-punk records, regardless of anyone's actual sexual preferences. It almost seems as if the male PP voclaists are all required to sing that way to even qualify as post-punk or something. Much like you recanted the tale of that Swans dude Michael Gira who didn't appreciate having the macho knuckle-dragging male testosterone fueled metal contingent infiltrating their scene and attending Swans shows, as one of those testosterone fueled, knuckle-dragging early 80's metal dudes I in turn did not appreciate the effeminate male vocal aesthetic infiltrating the rock music I listened to.

 

 

 

 

I always appreciate your blunt honest, even though I find myself smacking myself on my forehead sometimes. You know I like debating with you....

1- The middle school thing was just a reference point for that that time at a fairly young age when your musical tastes coalesce in a certain way. It could have come at age 15. For me it was middle school when I saw a clear fork in the road. I remember clearly picking Aerosmith and AC/DC over Donna Summer and Saturday Night Fever. Not to say, my taste haven't evolved-DOH!  Of course they have. But there was gravitational pull that I've felt in a certain direction for the most of my life. 

2-Man that walled off reference triggered you. You do know I was talking about myself, right? I was closed minded and ignored a lot of music that might have enriched me. By the way, the music I'm talking about-from Fugazi to 80's hardcore to Dinno Jr and Sonic Youth who I ventured into in more recent years were NOT on the radio. I'm not talking about Cyndi Lauper or Duran Duran ffs. 

3-Agreed, there's a big difference between the hard rock of AC/DC and CCR and The Kinks. I'm not a really big classic rock fan but I do like some of it. The Kinks have a long back discography with songs that were not on the radio. My point was more that I've always listened to more heavy music along with all kinds of other  music, but it was generally guitar driven. 

4-Macho bullshit stuff. Man, I had my hang ups with Depeche Mode or whatever and buying into machismo but you take the masculine/ feminine thing to an extreme. Like did someone waterboard you with Roy Orbison or something? Were you shut in a dark room with nothing but The Culture Club for 48 hours? Whatever you do, please, please never listen to Chino Moreno sing -that would be the Deftones vocalist btw-haha.

Look, taken to an extreme you could call Robert Plant's Hey Hey mamma vocals and intro the Immigrant song-effeminate-I mean the guy sang in a high register like a fucking girl, right? like literally anything other than extreme vocals-shit clean vocals of any kind-you know-NO CLEAN SINGING-taken to a point of absurdity is for wussies. Real men die with their boots on-grrrrrrr!!!!!!

We need to force you to listen to Navy's entire Cure and Smiths collection. Cold Turkey man. This can be dealt with.

I would point out that falsetto has been a part of rock and roll since it's inception.