markm

I shall listen!

Checked out a bit of that Unida album with Garcia on vox that the General posted. I've always thought a good vocalist can make a good hard rock band great (and let's be honest, that's what stoner metal is). Lots of great guitarists out there, no offense to present company, but finding a good clean vocalist has to be the icing . Not necessarily a "gifted" vocalist but from Bon Scott to Ozzy, to Lemmy to David Lee Roth (fuck Hagar) to Chris Cornell to Roger Plant to Dave Wyndorf to John Garcia, a good front man has a big part in defining those bands. Not to mention, many of those bands frontmen were also songwriters, which just means bands with weaker singers like the aforementioned Solarized, Fu Manchu, Nebula, etc., etc. had to have some great musicianship and songwriting to compensate. But when I think of the classic 70s/80's hard rock bands, I can't think of one that had a shit singer or at least a singer with big balls and charisma. Of course, it's easier to get away with subpar vocals in sludier atmosphere of stoner/doom vs the radio friendly more pop rock oriented hard rock of ore. Inter Arma/ New Heaven pre released tracks-sounds pretty rad to me. Now listening to Opeth's Morningside that M. Eternal posted-funny, as big an influence Opeth was on my mid age metal unbrith, there are a ton of bands I didn't go back and revisit their earlier catalog. In the early 2000's there was so much music I wanted to keep up I mostly stayed in the present and moved forward except for some black metal classics mostly because the history from the Lords of Chaos book compelled me. Anyways, I've only really heard from Blackwater Park forward. I can see that these "compositions" are of high quality but not as complex and developed as BWP perhaps.....so much acoustic work.

Ya know, I was thinking you might have a soft spot for those Jersey Monster Magnet indebted stoners being from your neck of the Northeast generally, but wasn't sure if it would be sufficiently punkish enough as I know that's your preference with the genre. For some reason, I never got into Unida, not sure why. I should give them some ear time. Solarized stood along bands with less name reco than Kyuss/Fu/Magnet in my listening like band like Nebula, Sons of Otis, Orange Goblin, etc. But they have that great heavy, skuzz factor. Speaking of punk influence, following that split you posted of Nebula. I definitely enjoy me some Nebular like To the Center that has a punchy heavy psyche meets Stooges vibe, and in a decidedly punkier vein. I still go back to this from time to time :

I've talked about my love of stoner and doom recently. I really don't listen to stoner metal thaaat much anymore but it's a bit like saying I've sworn off from pizza or donuts....uh, it's not a realistic goal. I guess I'll chalk it down to my affection for a let sleeping dogs lie -genre, but I do trot out some of my favorite gateway stoner and doom albums from time to time, which really are just comfort food listening for me at this point. Today, I did a rewind to the late 90's to a second tier band that despite limitations, deliver the goods: Solarized/Neanderthal speedway-1999-these Jersey Boy stoners came out with a couple of albums at the turn of the millennium-This one has guests from a couple of Monster Magnet members, most notably stoner guitar hero Ed Mundell and the influence of early Magnet is as subtle as sledge hammer, but for those of us that love early Magnet, that's a good thing. Vocals are straight up weak but the skuzzy heavier than Magnet sound released on Man's Ruin make this throwback to 70's nostalgic thick and grungy rawker a winner for an infrequent but enjoyable groovy spin once in a blue moon. Next up-2002's Driven.

That is one of my favorite later MDB albums, too. Turn Loose the Swans and and Angel are pretty hard to beat, tho!

Melvins/Tarantula Heart (2024)-new album!

Alkaloid/Liquid anatomy (2018)

The Cult/Love

On the Accept discussion, Restless and Wild is cool and I do randomly enjoy Balls to the Wall, but I love me some Metal Heart. Dogs on Leeds, Too High to Get it Right, Up to the Limit, but is a bit like Screaming for Vengeance/Defenders of the Faith-moments of metal ecstasy with some commercial filler that I usually just want to skip (Midnight Mover, Screaming for a Love Bite). Piece of Mind also comes to mind. In each case, the highs are so-stick the needle in-euphoric, I'm willing to overlook both bands desires to break into the U.S. top 40 market. And, of course, Priest did just that. Metal Heart, ntl, is one of my absolutely favorite 80's metal albums. I finally repurchased the disc a few years ago when I realized it was a desert album I could not live without.

Necrot-Lifeless Birth, I dunno, these guys don't do a lot for me

Been listening to Panopticon's 2023 release, Rhyme of Reason some recently and comparing it to other atmospheric/melodic black metal one person bands I've enjoyed in recent years. Spectral Lore/Mare Cognitum-Wanderers/Astrologers of the Nine-a split but two one man bands Afsky/Ofte jeg drømmer mig død-big fan of this one that seems to be classified as just black metal or melodic black metal with doom influences, but I don't see much daylight between melodic and atmoblack tbh Grimma-Frostbitten Grimma-Rotten Garden

Cheers my Friend and Thank you! Here's to the endless summer even for deathly, blackened frostbitten hearted among us.

Hey man! Just glad you're going well my friend. But I do enjoy listening to your picks. Congrats on the degree and the new job. And, I understand the forums can get redundant.

I'll have you know I read the whole thing. Surge finds some interesting stuff, sometimes. Good dude. Glad he got a job after getting his degree. I know he was trying to make a better life for he and his wife.

How about Surge? You guys have a lot of cross over. Where the hell is Surge, anyway? Oh Surge!!!! Imma start yodeling for Serge. He didn't even post his 2023 list. Sergiiiioooooo.....yodelayheehoo!!! (silence) Sergio, Sergio, Wherefore art Thou, Sergio (nothing) Sergio, come out and Plaaaay!!! This is an extremely sad state of affairs. Maybe I'll do a Surge rain dance or make a Surge cupie doll or get out my Surgi crystals.

😪

Yeah, and the other thing is I'm kind of into it. I mean, into it enough to write lists and buy albums, but your REALLY into metal. It's a huge part of who you are. I respect that. To me it's kind of a voyeuristic dark little corner of my life like having an affair or something that I keep to myself of the most part. Your also unique in that you take ginormous amounts of time to find the music that appeals to you and buck the notion of using referrals and recommendations whereas I think I might be more typical in that I need filters, I need short cuts. So for me having online sources of information where cites list albums that are coming out and provide mini reviews and monthly and year end lists are really important because I don't spend much time in YouTube or other 'net sources looking for gold nuggets. I need clffnotes. It's not perfect but it keeps me in the mix and has given me hours of listening pleasure.

I think a lot of guys in our generation basically got burnt out when as you say the good stuff went underground and metalcore, alt metal (much of which I like to certain point) and Nu metal were the norm along with changes in tastes to hip hop/rap. I should be clear, I was listening to other albums besides stoner metal but it was what I think I prefer to call riff rock (stoner) and doom and then post metal which opened me up to hardcorish vocals that got me to listening to metal with growls. I listed albums that came out during that time period, but I was buying a bunch of albums we all know that came out earlier. Slaughter to the Soul seems like the first reco people give for melodeth. That was one of my first pick ups. I still listen to it from time to time. I bought some cringy stuff that like a bunch of symphonic albums like Nightwish, within temptation, after forever, Dimu Borgir, Cradle of Filth (both band I rarely listen to anymore, except for Nightwash haha-I still have a soft spot even though it's really pop dressed in metal clothing), and other bands I still like-The Gathering, Tristania, Tiamat. I did like symphonic black like Arcturus' Aspera Hiems Symphonia I don't know why I didn't buy classic DM, because I bought the usual second wave black suspects you listed in this time period-Immortal, Gorgoroth (bunch of their stuff), Emperor, the Darkthrone seminal early albums, Satyricon, Mayhem. Never bought any Burzum. But then, I pretty much moved on from most of that stuff except Emperor, DT and Immortal.

I see now, that Encyclopedia of HM book was updated ten years later in 2012, so it must have been 2002 when I bought the book and started reading about stoner and doom and figured that might be up my alley, because I had no interest in death metal at the time. I bought a Lamb of God album and hated it and sold it back to the store-hard to believe but the Baltimore area chain Record and Tape Traders would actually give me my money back if I didn't like an album-wtf? What a great place that was. Looking at LoG album covers, I think it was New American Gospel (2000) or maybe it was As the Palace Burns ('03)-which places my time frame between 2000 and 2003 when I started dabling and that LoG album made me think death metal was not for me until I started listening to Opeth, Behemoth, Nile, Kataklysm,etc. It was literally unlistenable to me. It just so happens there was a lot of newer stoner metal, hardcore influenced stoner/doom and post rock that came out in the early aughts and it was my metal rebirth. I keep a list of albums like most of us probably do that I buy each year. It was the years between 2000-2005 that solidified my listening. I think in retrospect there was a kind of renaissance of metal and heavy psyche during these years that helped create or delineate many of the sub genres or incubate kernels of heavy musical ideas that would flower that we see prominently today and haven't seen that kind of growth and creativity since...at least in what you'd call mainstream and maybe "arty" metal. Maybe it's different in bestial black/death circles but the aughts were special in my old world of stoner/post metal/post hardocre/doom/hard doom/sludge/avantish, blackened sludge, prog black/death, etc, etc. Something was in the bong water back then. Here are some of the albums that made a big impression on me. In a sense these are all gateways: I list them by year but I didn't buy them all by release date. I jumped around a good bit from year to year. I don't think I really started buying any "mainstream black/death" until 2003 or so: 2000: ***Electric Wizard/Dopethrone -this was like the heaviest thing I'd heard in years and it was somewhat of a come to Satan moment of me. **The Haunted/Made Me Do It- I probably found this album a few years later but was one of those albums where I opened up to 'core vocals and hardcore influenced vox enticed me before death or black vox. Nevermore/Dead Heart in a Dead World **Fu Manchu/King of the Road-Definitely a eureka album-I absolutely loved Fu. 2001: ***Boris/Amplifier Worship-Boris were a big influence on my listening especially their early drone masterworks like this beast. It was actually released in '98. ***Opeth/Blackwater Park-I actually came to this after Ghost Reveries 2002-was a big year: a lot of foundational albums for me in my re emergence **Isis/Oceanic-Isis began the post metal plunge for me and at this point I was listening to a lot of Neurosis **Agalloch/The Mantle **High on fire/Surrounded by Thieves Porcupine Tree/In Absentia **Dark Tranquility/Damage Done **Entombed/Morning Star-this was my introduction to Entombed and it was years before I went back to their classics **The Reverend Bizarre/In the Rectory Arcturus/The Sham Mirrors Pentagram/First Daze Here The Vintage Collection (recorded between 73-74 w/ original line up) & Pentagram/Turn to Stone compilation (80’s & 90’s classic Peaceville releases) **Immortal/Sons of Northern Darkness **Xasthur/Nocturnal Poisoning-somehow I jumped in to Xasthur early The Hellacopters/By The Grace of God Opeth/Deliverance Orange Goblin/Coup De Grace 2003- **Mars Volta/Deloused in the Comatorium **YOB/Catharsis **Cult of Luna/The Beyond Katatonia/The Great Cold Distance **Spirit Caravan/The Last Embrace (probably Wino's finest hour, IMO) Nebula/Atomic Ritual **Boris/Akuma No Uta **Boris At Last/Feedbacker Naglfar/Sheol Sleep/Dopesmoker 2004 really opened up the flood gates **Mastodon/Leviathan-this definitely pushed the needle-Mastodon's death metal album, some would say **Enslaved/Issa **Marduk/Plague Angel-this was a pretty big turning point and began my love affair with Mortuus **Isis/Panopticon **CUL/Salvation **YOB/The Illusion of Motion-one of my favorite albums of all time! **Blut Aus Nord/Works that Transform God ('03-such an important album in my metal renaissance) Therion/Lemuria/Sirius B-went through a symphonic/operatic phase ***Behemoth/Demigod -not the first Behemoth album I bought, but an early death metal album that made a strong impression **Clutch/Blast Tyrant-still one of my favorite hard rock albums Neurosis/The Eye of Every Storm Goat Snake/I and + Dog Days (reissue compilation full length plus EP) The Haunted/Revolver Borknagar/Epic **My Dying Bride/Songs of Darkness, Words of Darkness-perhaps beginning my MDB love affair and a great album Red Giant/Devil Child Blues 2005: ****Opeth/ Ghost Reveries-this was my first Opeth album Bill Evans / Bill Evans Trio/The Complete Village Vanguard Recordings, 1961 (essential jazz purchase remastered and complete)-OK, not metal but brilliant! The Mars Volta/Frances the Mute **Sun0))/The Black one ***High On fire/Blessed Black Wings **Akercocke/ Words that Go Unspoken, Deeds that go Undone-still one of my favorite extreme metal albums ever Nevermore/The godless Endeavor **Earth/Hex: Or Printing in the Infernal Method **Dark Tranquility/Character Deathspell Omega/Kenose **Primordial/The Gathering Wilderness *Moonsorrow/Verisakeet Acid King/III

I didn't mean to imply that stoner, doom and post rock were similar but it probably read like that when I used the word riff rock which obviously applies to stoner and maybe doom but not post rock. I was 35 in 2,000 and had a realization that I missed discovering new music and yearned for heavy rock and metal like a woman yearning for a child...OK, that's what my wife went through in her mid 30's haha. I would randomly pick up a new album by any of the big 4 or other mainstream thrash or 80's metal bands I liked in the day, but I knew there must be something else out there for me. I had never exposed myself to what you'd call the underground, really. So I ended up buying this book and reading about various bands:

I'd have to really think about that myself. I'm not sure if it would be that different than my 20 favorite albums of all time. I've got a couple of thoughts. As far as gateways, Dark Tranquility was one of my first intros but I honestly don't remember if I bought Character or Damage Done first, but both of those would be up there and are kind of interchangeable. My gateways would include those and albums like Ghost Reveries, Slaughter of the Soul and Gorgoroth's Ad Majorem was one of the first BM albums that riveted me. But the albums that really had an impact were more in the post metal and stoner/doom realm because they convinced me there was interesting riff rock I needed to dig for-off hand I'd say, Oceanic, Through Silver and Blood, The Illusion of Motion, Leviathon, Surrounded by Thieves, In Search Of, Welcome to Sky Valley, Blast Tyrant, Dopes to Infinity....

Definitely! I am an AoP fan! I prefer Mammal and White Tomb, but I respect how they tried to do something different with this album.

Well thanks for that, General, I just learned something new-milquetoast! Being mild or timid. Thank you! I always greatly appreciate your attention to detail and spelling corrections Yeah, I had to check if I listed the wrong video-but it's right around minute 8:45 when he intros Blackwater Park as the album that got him into extreme metal in the early to mid 2000's. I haven't seen that many of his videos. I must have done a search for best Motorhead and best Neil Young albums because I remember seeing his rankings for both. For years I mostly listened to Motorhead's No Remorse and then some of their later albums and recently decided to pick up some of their back catalog. And I went on a Neil Young bender recently and did a little research on his classic albums.

He's milk toast by your standards definitely, but for some odd reason, I had some time to kill and listened to his 20 albums that changed my life and found some parallels. I''ll post it here in case anyone has some time to kill and is interested. I'm milk toast by your standards also. He lists some classic rock and prog and jazz but he's obviously been listening to some form or other of heavy music most of his life, just like I have. I mean, clearly, not everybody who claims to like heavy music, listens to mostly bestial black/death goat metal. He's much more of a collector than I am, but was pretty heavy into standard fare hard rock and metal in the 70's-80's . He has one video where he ranks Motorhead's albums. Also, like me got turned off or burnt out on metal in the 90' and like me and you actually, started listening to some extreme metal in the early aughts and like all three of us found Blackwater Park as a gateway and clearly knows his way around progressive death and black, but is a pretty a big prog rock/metal guy, and jazz fusion, and I just dabble in prog here and there, and I have a few jazz fusion albums myself. He claims to have gone from jazz fusion in the 90's to listening to mostly extreme metal in the early 2000's where I just started picking up random extreme metal albums here and there around 2004. I don't know really how typical that it for your average average 58 year old guy to have listened to mostly extreme metal in the early 2000's? Maybe there are tens of thousands, but I kind of doubt it.

Panopticon – The Rime of Memory