Random metal thoughts

[navybsn]

Never heard his solo stuff, band or whatever, but I thought he did a legitimately decent job at the Taylor Hawkins tribute gig emulating his dad.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

20 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

Most critics do have their heads up their arses, but that alone doesn't make them all wrong. It's hardly surprising that you aren't a fan of his. It would hardly be a surprise if he had no fans here at all. But to be fair none of that is an accurate reflection on how good or bad the guy actually is. Most people here dislike Metallica yet 100,000+ people in one city seem to think they are good enough to put on two concerts in one weekend. I'm not suggesting any of that makes WVH a legend but it also doesn't make him shit, surely his old man taught him something.

Eddie Van Halen is a legend. Would never dispute that. I respect him and his playing, dude was a game-changer in the late 70's when I was in high school. I reallly never had any problem at all with the guy personally other than not liking his band in the 80's because I just don't like pop-rock music. He could have had a great hard rock or metal band and instead he chose to go the fluffy inane disposable pop music route. His choice of course, and he made tons of money that way so good on him, I really don't hold that against him. But I'm not gonna sit here and say any of the VH albums after the first 3 or 4 were any good because it was insufferable pop music. Just because some dude's an incredibly talented guitarist doesn't mean his albums are necessarily gonna be any good.

But that said, I'd be happy to listen to even the shitty Van Hagar era "Why Can't This Be Love" crap all day long if it meant I didn't have to hear Mammoth ever again. Listen to the track I posted, it's fucking horrendous. No idea if Wolfie is a talented musician or not just going by that one song, maybe he is maybe he isn't. His dad was obviously, but I don't believe that's something you will always be able to pass down to all your offspring. There's a lot of hard work involved to become a superior musician, it's not just a matter of having musical genes. But either way, whether he's a great bass player or not, I'm now satisfied that the music Wolfie's band makes is absolute unredeemable garbage.

As far as Metallica is concerned I don't think most here disike them, we just dislike the direction they went in 32 years ago. I think many of us still respect and admire their early albums. They followed the same trajectory a million other bands have taken, they start out gangbusters right out of the gate and then after 3 or 4 or 5 albums they've shot their creative load and start making shit albums. No biggie, we can just listen to the good albums and ignore the ones we don't like. As far as them selling out two shows 100,000+ tickets in the same city last weekend, we have 24 million people who live within about 75 miles (120km) of NYC. So 100k tickets isn't as crazy a number here as it would be most other places. Metro Melbourne is 5 million Ockers so that'd be like them selling 20k tickets for two shows down there. Still impressive, but then they are the biggest rock/metal band in the world so what would you expect? They could probably sell out 5 days in a row.

[AlSymerz]

I did listen to the track, and while it's not my thing I also don't think it's horrendous or garbage.

[Dead1]

6 hours ago, AlSymerz said:

 I'm not suggesting any of that makes WVH a legend but it also doesn't make him shit, surely his old man taught him something.

Assuming he paid attention or was into as much as his dad etc.

You can't teach someone to be awesome or even good at something especially when it comes to art like music. Talent is an actual thing and it's causes unknown and probably many.  Eg Eddie grew up in a musical household during the 1960s when rock n roll was exploding.   But despite all of that Eddie could've turned out to be a mediocre player and ended up being an accountant or a taxi driver or a factory worker.

But something clicked with him and music and he became a rock n roll virtuoso.

 

That song GG played was pretty atrocious too.

[Thatguy]

Mozart's dad was a pretty handy musician apparently, then there's the Bach clan.I think musical aptitude can be inherited and if nurtured generational talent can be a real thing, but there is no certainty of actual brilliance passing on. 

I guess I must have heard a Van Halen song but I have no memory of ever doing so, so all of this is doubly lost on me.

[Dead1]

I've been seeing GG and Navy use the term Hessian for metalhead.  Only other time I've seen this term used is on the infamous Death Metal Underground website.

 

When was this term used? And does it apply only to underground metalheads?

 

I don't think it's something I relate to.  Yes I am a metalhead but I certainly don't fit the  underground type definition - too much Pantera, Iron Maiden and Hellyeah in my collection for that. 

[navybsn]

hesher (plural heshers) (slang) A diehard enthusiast of heavy metal music.

"Heshers aren’t casual metalheads, they’re lifers. They don’t fold their arms or bob their heads at shows, they windmill their hair and pump their fists. They live, breathe, fight, and die for metal. And though superstition may abound that heshers are uncouth psychopaths (and some are, to be sure), the truth is that they’re just more dedicated to a brutal way of life than most."

Term derives from Hessian, the German soldiers famous for their participation in the Revolutionary War.

[Sheol]

5 hours ago, navybsn said:

hesher (plural heshers) (slang) A diehard enthusiast of heavy metal music.

"Heshers aren’t casual metalheads, they’re lifers. They don’t fold their arms or bob their heads at shows, they windmill their hair and pump their fists. They live, breathe, fight, and die for metal. And though superstition may abound that heshers are uncouth psychopaths (and some are, to be sure), the truth is that they’re just more dedicated to a brutal way of life than most."

Term derives from Hessian, the German soldiers famous for their participation in the Revolutionary War.

Never heard that word in my life, must be US slang?

[Dead1]

On 8/31/2023 at 12:16 PM, navybsn said:

hesher (plural heshers) (slang) A diehard enthusiast of heavy metal music.

"Heshers aren’t casual metalheads, they’re lifers. They don’t fold their arms or bob their heads at shows, they windmill their hair and pump their fists. 

 

A mythical creature then.  At some stage your body just doesn't do that kind of punishment.  

I can't really mosh for most than 1-2 songs these days before the body says no.

 

Quote

. And though superstition may abound that heshers are uncouth psychopaths (and some are, to be sure), the truth is that they’re just more dedicated to a brutal way of life than most."

Also most metalheads are kinda nerdy weak folk or at best normal types. 

IMO metalheads are certainly not "uncouth psychopaths dedicated to a brutal way of life".  In my opinion that goes to people who openly embrace violence - the prepper living in a compound with a tens of thousands of rounds, the gang member willing to do a drive buy shooting or beat someone up, the meth addict who snaps at the slightest provocation, the war tourist who goes to Ukraine or Syria to fight a war because they want to experience that or even the western born and raised Islamist diehard who joins ISIS etc etc.

 

Or the activist risking arrest and life by chaining themselves to equipment, risking getting murdered by corporate thugs in the third world or playing chicken with Japanese whalers.

Hell I'd even say the extreme sports nutter who put life and limb at risk to climb Mt Everest, base jump off a skyscraper or do other insane shit most of us only see on video screens at gyms.

Basically anyone who gives up on modernity's safe and comfortable existence in favour of more primal existence where there is a threat to their life.

Most metalheads don't even come close to that. 

In fact most metalheads now frown upon the murderous and violent carnage of the early black metal scene or the inherent violence of the early hardcore scene or even the political angst of hardcore and some thrash.

Metalheads festoon themselves with the paraphernalia of death and violence, whilst living safe little conformist lives.

I certainly am not a hessian.  I love metal but am ultimately a sad little conformist myself.

 

 

[navybsn]

5 hours ago, Dead1 said:

A mythical creature then.  At some stage your body just doesn't do that kind of punishment.  

I can't really mosh for most than 1-2 songs these days before the body says no.

 

Also most metalheads are kinda nerdy weak folk or at best normal types. 

IMO metalheads are certainly not "uncouth psychopaths dedicated to a brutal way of life".  In my opinion that goes to people who openly embrace violence - the prepper living in a compound with a tens of thousands of rounds, the gang member willing to do a drive buy shooting or beat someone up, the meth addict who snaps at the slightest provocation, the war tourist who goes to Ukraine or Syria to fight a war because they want to experience that or even the western born and raised Islamist diehard who joins ISIS etc etc.

 

Or the activist risking arrest and life by chaining themselves to equipment, risking getting murdered by corporate thugs in the third world or playing chicken with Japanese whalers.

Hell I'd even say the extreme sports nutter who put life and limb at risk to climb Mt Everest, base jump off a skyscraper or do other insane shit most of us only see on video screens at gyms.

Basically anyone who gives up on modernity's safe and comfortable existence in favour of more primal existence where there is a threat to their life.

Most metalheads don't even come close to that. 

In fact most metalheads now frown upon the murderous and violent carnage of the early black metal scene or the inherent violence of the early hardcore scene or even the political angst of hardcore and some thrash.

Metalheads festoon themselves with the paraphernalia of death and violence, whilst living safe little conformist lives.

I certainly am not a hessian.  I love metal but am ultimately a sad little conformist myself.

 

 

I think the definition given is quite tongue in cheek. The term generally refers to the dedicated metal head. Interchangeable with metal head really. Old American slang term (as in 80's - 90's) equivalent to punk, hippie, "B boy", etc. I wouldn't put to much into the etymology of it.

[Dead1]

Death Metal Underground used the term quite seriously.

 

In other news I note that website has gone back to actual metal and not stupid tirades against Metal Sucks and cigar reviews

[navybsn]

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Death Metal Underground used the term quite seriously.

 

In other news I note that website has gone back to actual metal and not stupid tirades against Metal Sucks and cigar reviews

That's too bad. Was fairly entertaining watching the back and forth between those two.

[Sardonicist]

14 hours ago, Dead1 said:

A mythical creature then.  At some stage your body just doesn't do that kind of punishment.  

I can't really mosh for most than 1-2 songs these days before the body says no.

 

Also most metalheads are kinda nerdy weak folk or at best normal types. 

IMO metalheads are certainly not "uncouth psychopaths dedicated to a brutal way of life".  In my opinion that goes to people who openly embrace violence - the prepper living in a compound with a tens of thousands of rounds, the gang member willing to do a drive buy shooting or beat someone up, the meth addict who snaps at the slightest provocation, the war tourist who goes to Ukraine or Syria to fight a war because they want to experience that or even the western born and raised Islamist diehard who joins ISIS etc etc.

 

Or the activist risking arrest and life by chaining themselves to equipment, risking getting murdered by corporate thugs in the third world or playing chicken with Japanese whalers.

Hell I'd even say the extreme sports nutter who put life and limb at risk to climb Mt Everest, base jump off a skyscraper or do other insane shit most of us only see on video screens at gyms.

Basically anyone who gives up on modernity's safe and comfortable existence in favour of more primal existence where there is a threat to their life.

Most metalheads don't even come close to that. 

In fact most metalheads now frown upon the murderous and violent carnage of the early black metal scene or the inherent violence of the early hardcore scene or even the political angst of hardcore and some thrash.

Metalheads festoon themselves with the paraphernalia of death and violence, whilst living safe little conformist lives.

I certainly am not a hessian.  I love metal but am ultimately a sad little conformist myself.

 

 

War and high risk activities are for conformists. They conform to nature and society. Be all you can be. Go get it. Survival drives, bragging potential, increasing status, Nietzschean or Tommy Robbins, you just described all the worlds most conformist people that exist. Soldiering has always been considered a conformist path. In Sven Hassel novels the people who just want to exist, free of the burden of  war and ideology are portrayed as the non conformists. Now if we have the privilege of being able to just exist and we make the most of it, this makes us conformists? 

I couldn't care less if I am conformist or not, but object to the notion that climbing mount Everest makes a person a non-conformist, seems more like if a person is rich, they are expected to climb mount Everest, or demonstrate their power in some way so they can brag about it. 

 

 

[SurgicalBrute]

15 hours ago, Dead1 said:

I certainly am not a hessian

> Hesher

"Hessians" were German mercenaries who fought for the British during the U.S. revolutionary war

[Nasty_Cabbage]

"Hesher" was also a sort of interesting indie film from a few years back starring Joseph Gordon Levitt and Natalie Portman. Not really worth hunting down, but I liked that it didn't take the cheater route of making Joseph Gordon Levitt's character just a figurative representation of grief and the onset of rebellious puberty like a lot of movies would have.

[SurgicalBrute]

I remember that movie, vaguely...he played a metalhead in that flick, didn't he?

[Dead1]

On 9/2/2023 at 6:32 AM, Sardonicist said:

War and high risk activities are for conformists. They conform to nature and society. Be all you can be. Go get it. Survival drives, bragging potential, increasing status, Nietzschean or Tommy Robbins, you just described all the worlds most conformist people that exist. Soldiering has always been considered a conformist path. In Sven Hassel novels the people who just want to exist, free of the burden of  war and ideology are portrayed as the non conformists.

I couldn't care less if I am conformist or not, but object to the notion that climbing mount Everest makes a person a non-conformist, seems more like if a person is rich, they are expected to climb mount Everest, or demonstrate their power in some way so they can brag about it. 

 

Joining ISIS or the Ukrainians is certainly not conformism, especially in our consumerist society.  I'm not talking about joining the US or British or Belgian army for a career.  I'm talking about joining groups in high intensity wars.

Survival instincts means avoiding high risk activities.  It is against the natural order to deliberately expose oneself to increased risk.

 

If your environment allows you to slosh around in comfort with minimal exertion of energy with a full belly, natural instincts will mean you will embrace that life, not buy a ticket to Syria and join some jihadi group getting carpet bombed by the Syrian air force. 

 

Joining the military is no longer conformist behaviour in many demilitarised western consumer societies.  Here in Australia but also from what I've read in Europe and north Asia, military careers are not seen as best choices.  It's viewed as something poor people do.  It's even becoming like that in Israel with massive growth in conscription exemptions or even flat out avoidance.

It's becoming the same in the US - middle class comfy kids don't join the army. 

 

As for extreme sports, again they violate natural instincts.  Climbing Mt Everest or doing crazy aerial stunts on a skateboard violate natural instincts.

 

Quote

 

Now if we have the privilege of being able to just exist and we make the most of it, this makes us conformists? 

 

You're not just existing.  The fact you're using a computer or some sort of electronic device shows you are in fact a willing participant in our consumer society and have some disposable income.  Compared to your ancestors, you live like a king.

 

Save some homeless, nearly all of us westerners live comfortable conformist consumer lives.  We aren't hungry, we have homes over our heads, we generally aren't oppressed or persecuted, generally own a car and we have some money left over for entertainment etc.  We live in largely non-violent pacifist societies where threat of war or ethnic violence is so low.  Famine and disease (even COVID) are things that barely effect us (remember in the old days when 50% of women died in child birth and even a toothache could kill you.).

This is so far removed from the historical norm and even the norm in many other places.

 

This is why doing something like climbing Mount Everest or joining ISIS/Ukrainian Foreign Legion or to lesser degree disconnecting from society to become some sort of isolated prepper is indeed non-conformist.

It is certainly a "brutal way of life" compared to just listening to heavy metal in the comfort of our homes.

[Sardonicist]

34 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

Joining ISIS or the Ukrainians is certainly not conformism, especially in our consumerist society.  I'm not talking about joining the US or British or Belgian army for a career.  I'm talking about joining groups in high intensity wars.

Survival instincts means avoiding high risk activities.  It is against the natural order to deliberately expose oneself to increased risk.

 

If your environment allows you to slosh around in comfort with minimal exertion of energy with a full belly, natural instincts will mean you will embrace that life, not buy a ticket to Syria and join some jihadi group getting carpet bombed by the Syrian air force. 

 

Joining the military is no longer conformist behaviour in many demilitarised western consumer societies.  Here in Australia but also from what I've read in Europe and north Asia, military careers are not seen as best choices.  It's viewed as something poor people do.  It's even becoming like that in Israel with massive growth in conscription exemptions or even flat out avoidance.

It's becoming the same in the US - middle class comfy kids don't join the army. 

 

As for extreme sports, again they violate natural instincts.  Climbing Mt Everest or doing crazy aerial stunts on a skateboard violate natural instincts.

 

You're not just existing.  The fact you're using a computer or some sort of electronic device shows you are in fact a willing participant in our consumer society and have some disposable income.  Compared to your ancestors, you live like a king.

 

Save some homeless, nearly all of us westerners live comfortable conformist consumer lives.  We aren't hungry, we have homes over our heads, we generally aren't oppressed or persecuted, generally own a car and we have some money left over for entertainment etc.  We live in largely non-violent pacifist societies where threat of war or ethnic violence is so low.  Famine and disease (even COVID) are things that barely effect us (remember in the old days when 50% of women died in child birth and even a toothache could kill you.).

This is so far removed from the historical norm and even the norm in many other places.

 

This is why doing something like climbing Mount Everest or joining ISIS/Ukrainian Foreign Legion or to lesser degree disconnecting from society to become some sort of isolated prepper is indeed non-conformist.

It is certainly a "brutal way of life" compared to just listening to heavy metal in the comfort of our homes.

As a long term welfare dependant New Zealander I do consider myself the 1%. I agree that joining ISIS would make a brutal way of life, but ISIS is a conform or die system. Non-conformity as a stand alone principle requires the liberty to not conform. People are shallow and they want to bore each other with tall tales of their exploits, this is the only motivation for the masses who climb Everest now days.

Nature fills everyone with dissatisfaction. Pleasure only comes from things that increase survival prospects. A conqueror gets rewards. Conquer a mountain, win wealth and women, this is the mountaineers motivation, conforming to nature. 

Contemplation of death is a legitimate activity for all humans, we all die no matter how safe we are. Metalheads are not hypocritical or fake for having fascinations with morbid imagery but living an unexceptional, boring life. I don't believe that anyone who joins ISIS or the Ukrainian foreign legion becomes a more legitimate, less shallow human either.

Understanding the brutality of life vs not understanding the brutality of life makes a slight difference. 

 

 

[Dead1]

54 minutes ago, Sardonicist said:

As a long term welfare dependant New Zealander I do consider myself the 1%. I agree that joining ISIS would make a brutal way of life, but ISIS is a conform or die system. Non-conformity as a stand alone principle requires the liberty to not conform. People are shallow and they want to bore each other with tall tales of their exploits, this is the only motivation for the masses who climb Everest now days.

Nature fills everyone with dissatisfaction. Pleasure only comes from things that increase survival prospects. A conqueror gets rewards. Conquer a mountain, win wealth and women, this is the mountaineers motivation, conforming to nature. 

Contemplation of death is a legitimate activity for all humans, we all die no matter how safe we are. Metalheads are not hypocritical or fake for having fascinations with morbid imagery but living an unexceptional, boring life. I don't believe that anyone who joins ISIS or the Ukrainian foreign legion becomes a more legitimate, less shallow human either.

Whereas ISIS is indeed conformist, a westerner travelling from Australia or Belgium to join ISIS in Syria is certainly not conformist according to western norms.  In fact giving up on western comforts and consumer freedom is non-conformist.  Same for westerners that travelled to Ukraine to join their foreign legion and fight the Russians.  Yes this made sense in less luxurious times when the prospect of loot increased the appeal but if you're living a cushy life in west, then going to die in a WWI style war in a country most people can't find on a map is non-conformist.

 

I can see where you are coming from conquering a mountain and risk to reward system.  Accolades are often reward unto themselves too.

 

My main point is we metalheads are extremely fake because we pretend we are something we're not and actively shun those who we pretend to be like (eg black metal church burning/murdering types).

Really we are on par with the Taylor Swift or Ed Sheeran  or Star Wars or Marvel fans except our aesthetic is different.  We still live cushy conformist western lives.  Listening to Burzum and Tomb Mold and moshing at gigs doesn't mean we live "brutal lives."

 

Your average metalhead has never lived in discomfort and has certainly not lived a more brutal way of life.  The scene is predominantly white working and middle class. In our youth we're mainly misfit Beta males who can't really handle the Alpha male world so we cocoon ourselves in this violent imagery and pretend it means something when it is what they call  keyfabe in wrestling.

-----

Personally I think the underground elements of the 1980s punk/hardcore scene was probably one of the most "brutal" scenes.

These guys and gals literally relinquished modern western consumerism - eg they chose to squat and live in poverty.

They didn't aspire to wealth and viewed selling lots of records as selling out.

For some of them violence was a way of settling scores or spreading their ideology (eg Straight Edge Boston Crew).

 

Those people lived what metal heads pretend they live.

 

Not saying their way is right or desirable, merely proving a point metalheads culture is inherently poseurish and totally divorced from its imagery.

[FatherAlabaster]

17 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

metalheads culture is inherently poseurish and totally divorced from its imagery.

Oh come on, next you'll be telling me that these MEN did not just return victorious from glory in battle.

[RelentlessOblivion]

all this talk of conformists is just making me think of the goth kids from South Park. That’s about all I have to contribute to this conversation.

[AlSymerz]

1 hour ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Oh come on, next you'll be telling me that these MEN did not just return victorious from glory in battle.

Finally, something sensible and metal all in the one post.

You win the Internetz for the day!

[GoatmasterGeneral]

14 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Whereas ISIS is indeed conformist, a westerner travelling from Australia or Belgium to join ISIS in Syria is certainly not conformist according to western norms.  In fact giving up on western comforts and consumer freedom is non-conformist.  Same for westerners that travelled to Ukraine to join their foreign legion and fight the Russians.  Yes this made sense in less luxurious times when the prospect of loot increased the appeal but if you're living a cushy life in west, then going to die in a WWI style war in a country most people can't find on a map is non-conformist.

 

I can see where you are coming from conquering a mountain and risk to reward system.  Accolades are often reward unto themselves too.

 

My main point is we metalheads are extremely fake because we pretend we are something we're not and actively shun those who we pretend to be like (eg black metal church burning/murdering types).

Really we are on par with the Taylor Swift or Ed Sheeran  or Star Wars or Marvel fans except our aesthetic is different.  We still live cushy conformist western lives.  Listening to Burzum and Tomb Mold and moshing at gigs doesn't mean we live "brutal lives."

 

Your average metalhead has never lived in discomfort and has certainly not lived a more brutal way of life.  The scene is predominantly white working and middle class. In our youth we're mainly misfit Beta males who can't really handle the Alpha male world so we cocoon ourselves in this violent imagery and pretend it means something when it is what they call  keyfabe in wrestling.

-----

Personally I think the underground elements of the 1980s punk/hardcore scene was probably one of the most "brutal" scenes.

These guys and gals literally relinquished modern western consumerism - eg they chose to squat and live in poverty.

They didn't aspire to wealth and viewed selling lots of records as selling out.

For some of them violence was a way of settling scores or spreading their ideology (eg Straight Edge Boston Crew).

 

Those people lived what metal heads pretend they live.

 

Not saying their way is right or desirable, merely proving a point metalheads culture is inherently poseurish and totally divorced from its imagery.

The "alpha male world" is much more conformist and poseurish than any metalhead nonsense will ever be, because it's all about keeping up appearances taken to the extreme. These alpha dogs are just as full of shit and just as much 'poseurs' pretending to be something they're not, if not moreso than anyone else. Metalheads have much more leeway to stray from the expected path and do things their own way.

So it basically sounds like you're saying there's really no such thing as nonconformity, and that everyone's picked one group or another to conform to because all people have a desire to fit in somewhere no matter how much they may claim they don't. Whichever path you may choose in life has already been done to death and the expected boundaries have been staked out for us. Even the crusties who live in the squats and fight their way through life to survive are conforming to that hard 'brutal' lifestyle which demands from them the relinquishment of consumerism and middle class norms of decorum. Conforming to the idea of nonconformity is in itself conformity.

When Navy talked about living a 'brutal' life as he described the definition of "heshers" the other day, I took that to be quite tongue in cheek. Navy knows the vast majortiy of us are nothing more than just random regular dudes who enjoy listening to a certain kind of music. I don't think too many 'heshers' over the age of roughly 26 truly believe there's anything 'brutal' about our metalhead lifestyle. I don't even think there is any particular expected metalhead lifestyle for grown men (and/or women) these days.

Most of the metalheads I've encountered over the last couple of decades have been 30's to 50's, more often than not at least somewhat educated, middle class people with families and all kinds of varied and interesting occupations. I don't know anyone who purports to be out burning churches or reveling in gore or going on killing sprees, or slaying poseurs on the field of battle. I don't see most metalheads out here as pretending to be anything other than dudes who really like listening to metal and collecting albums and black band t-shirts. I'm sure there are likely some because there are exceptions to everything, but I just don't see too many of us "cocooning ourselves in violent imagery" or taking any of this metal machismo crap seriously. For most of us it seems to be more of a diversion, a way to relax and blow off some steam.

[JonoBlade]

3 hours ago, Dead1 said:

My main point is we metalheads are extremely fake because we pretend we are something we're not and actively shun those who we pretend to be like (eg black metal church burning/murdering types).

Really we are on par with the Taylor Swift or Ed Sheeran  or Star Wars or Marvel fans except our aesthetic is different.  We still live cushy conformist western lives.  Listening to Burzum and Tomb Mold and moshing at gigs doesn't mean we live "brutal lives."

Your average metalhead has never lived in discomfort and has certainly not lived a more brutal way of life.  The scene is predominantly white working and middle class. In our youth we're mainly misfit Beta males who can't really handle the Alpha male world so we cocoon ourselves in this violent imagery and pretend it means something when it is what they call  keyfabe in wrestling.

I like your analysis and GG's retort. It is the kind of thing that might have crossed my mind in the past but now the imagery and "lifestyle" of metal is merely a blur in the background. For example, I barely even register the latest Cannibal Corpse album cover which once upon a time might have seemed cool and brutal and made one want to be associated with that scene.

Probably when you're a teenager you want people thinking you're a little bit weird so they don't bother you. Metal was a cocoon in that respect. Although I truly believe I was never into it for the image even if I wore black jeans and t-shirt and had unkempt long hair. I suspect none of us here were, because we're all lifers and never grew out of it like our mums expected.

It's amusing to ponder "we metalheads are extremely fake because we pretend we are something we're not and actively shun those who we pretend to be like (eg black metal church burning/murdering types)." Fake is in the eye of the beholder, because sifting through dozens of albums a year in the hope of finding a few that inexplicably connect to you emotionally is not fake. It takes quite a bit of effort which a Taylor Swift or Ed Sheeran or Star Wars or Marvel fan can't really claim.

[Dead1]

15 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

So it basically sounds like you're saying there's really no such thing as nonconformity, and that everyone's picked one group or another to conform to because all people have a desire to fit in somewhere no matter how much they may claim they don't. Whichever path you may choose in life has already been done to death and the expected boundaries have been staked out for us. Even the crusties who live in the squats and fight their way through life to survive are conforming to that hard 'brutal' lifestyle which demands from them the relinquishment of consumerism and middle class norms of decorum. Conforming to the idea of nonconformity is in itself conformity.

Yep this is my point.  Non conformity doesn't really exist. To be truly nonconformist in a western society you have to go against every single norm.  Ironically to do this you conform to some other group's rules.    My example was ISIS or going to fight in Ukraine but others could be joining a cult or whatever.

 

Quote

Metalheads have much more leeway to stray from the expected path and do things their own way.

How?   Do they get tax exemptions or something?

I've never met a metalhead who did it their own way.  Save a very small number of people in the black metal scene (not just the church burners but some of the guys that really do live in an isolated cabin making black metal) we've all followed mainstream society's path.

 

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Most of the metalheads I've encountered over the last couple of decades have been 30's to 50's, more often than not at least somewhat educated, middle class people with families and all kinds of varied and interesting occupations. I don't know anyone who purports to be out burning churches or reveling in gore or going on killing sprees, or slaying poseurs on the field of battle. I don't see most metalheads out here as pretending to be anything other than dudes who really like listening to metal and collecting albums and black band t-shirts. I'm sure there are likely some because there are exceptions to everything, but I just don't see too many of us "cocooning ourselves in violent imagery" or taking any of this metal machismo crap seriously. For most of us it seems to be more of a diversion, a way to relax and blow off some steam.

Exactly my point.  Metal is portrayed by metalheads as "hardcore" and "violent."  Indeed look at the album covers, t-shirt logo designs, metal accessories (bullet belts, camo pants, spikes etc).  Even the way metalheads pose for photos is meant to portray an image of violent berzerkers.

 

It's all just charade.  Metal is essentially a marketing gimmick.

 

Your average metalhead in my experience is a dude who probably was a loser in high school and generally hasn't done much in life.  This forum is an exception.  In real life most of the metalheads I knew finished Year 10 or 12 (only know a couple of others who finished uni), most were unemployed or employed in low level menial jobs and lived pretty mundane yet cushy lives.

15 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Probably when you're a teenager you want people thinking you're a little bit weird so they don't bother you. Metal was a cocoon in that respect.

I think it's the other way.  I think it's the misfit kid that generally gets into metal.   

 

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It's amusing to ponder "we metalheads are extremely fake because we pretend we are something we're not and actively shun those who we pretend to be like (eg black metal church burning/murdering types)." Fake is in the eye of the beholder, because sifting through dozens of albums a year in the hope of finding a few that inexplicably connect to you emotionally is not fake. It takes quite a bit of effort which a Taylor Swift or Ed Sheeran or Star Wars or Marvel fan can't really claim.

Sifting through dozens of albums is not much different to the Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran fan following every step of their stars.

It's no different to Star Wars and Marvel fans trawling the internet and spending massive money to buy rare collectibles or spending money on expensive costumes to go to Comecon or even just anywhere (eg 501st Legion). 

It's just a different way to consume things in a fanatical way.