Random metal thoughts

[GoatmasterGeneral]

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Yep this is my point. Non conformity doesn't really exist. To be truly nonconformist in a western society you have to go against every single norm. Ironically to do this you conform to some other group's rules. My example was ISIS or going to fight in Ukraine but others could be joining a cult or whatever.

I think your standards for non conformity are way too extreme. I don't think most people are talking about being a total anti-social psychopath like Charles Manson or Varg Virkenes or Euronymous or someone when they say someone's a non conformist. I think there are clearly people who "march to the beat of their own drummer" as the saying goes, without feeing the need to eschew all of society's rules and expectations for civilized, socially acceptable behavior. It sounds like you think someone has to be a criminal or a murderer or a completely isolated anti-social hermit wack-job who lives in the wild raised by wolves in order to qualify as a true non conformist. Pretty sure most of the rest of us have standards for non conformity that are quite a bit more relaxed.

How?  Do they get tax exemptions or something?

Was just saying the whole "alpha male" thing is a bunch of bullshit. All those alphas and lone wolf sigmas are a bunch of poseur douchebags putting on an act to make people think they're some kind of a boss. But they're under just as much pressure to conform and act hard and drive the right car and bang the right chicks and make a certain ammount of money and not to take any shit from anyone ever in order to keep up appearances as an "alpha" as any metalhead is to be a violent beserker. Probably quite a bit more pressure because unlike the metalheads for whom it's all in good fun, the alpha males are out to convince the whole world their image and realtiy are one and the same. 

I've never met a metalhead who did it their own way.  Save a very small number of people in the black metal scene (not just the church burners but some of the guys that really do live in an isolated cabin making black metal) we've all followed mainstream society's path.

Of course we follow mainstream society's path. Otherwise you'd have to be a deranged psycho criminal in order to qualify as a true metalhead, and obviously that'd be fucking stupid. I don't personally know any metalheads who I would describe as anti-social psychpaths thank the dark fucking goat lord.

Exactly my point. Metal is portrayed by metalheads as "hardcore" and "violent."  Indeed look at the album covers, t-shirt logo designs, metal accessories (bullet belts, camo pants, spikes etc).  Even the way metalheads pose for photos is meant to portray an image of violent berzerkers. It's all just charade.  Metal is essentially a marketing gimmick.

Of course it is! Just like everything else in modern day pop culture is a marketing gimmick. Because that's the whole point, at the end of the day someone's trying to sell you something. I think you're reading way too much into all of this hardcore heavy metal "violent berzerker" imagery. I don't believe 99% of metalheads take this shit anywhere near that seriously, which is good because I really wouldn't want them to. Like when a group of metalheads meet up at a festival and mug for each other's cameras, it's meant to be taken all in good fun. It is a charade if you like, but one that's not meant to be taken in any way seriously or literally, they're just fooling around and having fun. You like to have fun now and then too, don't you? No one with haf a brain thinks that shit's for real. The music is what's hardcore and violent, not the listeners or even the musicians in the bands. Just the music. Occasionally there will probably be a band that harbors some maladjusted criminal psychopaths, but fortunately that's the rare exception, not the rule. 

Your average metalhead in my experience is a dude who probably was a loser in high school and generally hasn't done much in life.  This forum is an exception.  In real life most of the metalheads I knew finished Year 10 or 12 (only know a couple of others who finished uni), most were unemployed or employed in low level menial jobs and lived pretty mundane yet cushy lives.

I think it's the other way.  I think it's the misfit kid that generally gets into metal.   

I think your personal anecdotal experience is just that, one dude's experience. No more, no less. You've said what must be hundreds of times by this point that you think most metalheads are misfit losers going by what you've observed in your life and I'm here to tell you that's just nonsense. I don't think this forum is an exception at all, I think your personal experience is the exception. Metalheads represent a typical cross section of society with no higher or lower percentage of misfit losers or deep forest dwelling sociopath malcontents than fans of any other pop culture interest. I'm not saying there aren't any misfit loser metalheads, of course there are. But what I am saying is that no matter what pop culture thing you might happen to be into, there will be basically a similar percentage of misfit losers or former misfit losers present in any of them. 

Sifting through dozens of albums is not much different to the Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran fan following every step of their stars. It's no different to Star Wars and Marvel fans trawling the internet and spending massive money to buy rare collectibles or spending money on expensive costumes to go to Comecon or even just anywhere (eg 501st Legion). 

You see now imho that's where I would think you're likely gonna find a disproportionately high percentage of mistfit loser introverts, in the Comecon, Star Wars and D&D fantasy nerd sector. But I freely aknowledge that could very likely just be my own biases, prejudices and personal anecdotal experience talking.

It's just a different way to consume things in a fanatical way.

And that's all it's meant to be. Obsessive escapism and unbridled consumerism. We're not really trying to pass ourselves off as fanatical metal warriors, rabid violent berserkers, and unhinged poseur killers. We're just normal dudes from all walks of life who happen to be passionate about our heavy music, and we enjoy the metal subculture and the spirit of brotherhood and comraderie that goes along with it. 

 

 

[Dead1]

Funnily enough I agree with you for most part.  I do think nearly everything is conformist in our tolerant accept everything world.  

It was different say in 1980s or before when social standards were far more stringent in mainstream society.

 

Basically you can't be a nonconformist if everything short of joining ISIS is acceptable.

 

Dunno about the brotherhood personally.   When I meet metalheads in real life I relate to them as much as I do to football loving types or people who are into fishing ie not at all. 

I find most metalheads I've met in real life to be smelly morons or quite awkward types with a smug air of superiority about them (apparently I am not metal enough coz I have short hair).  There's a couple of exceptions of course.

Doesn't help the way I am on here is also the way I am in the real world.  

[JonoBlade]

10 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Sifting through dozens of albums is not much different to the Taylor Swift and Ed Sheeran fan following every step of their stars.

It's no different to Star Wars and Marvel fans trawling the internet and spending massive money to buy rare collectibles or spending money on expensive costumes to go to Comecon or even just anywhere (eg 501st Legion). 

It's just a different way to consume things in a fanatical way.

I don't see following social media or spending money on collectibles as equivalent to being a metal fan or indeed a fan of any relatively obscure music or artform, where you seek to uncover new great examples in your chosen field. But I'll admit its hard to know what the distinction is or where you draw the line.

I despair at my daughter spending ages wittering to friends on her phone....although why is my choice of how I spend my free time - listening to or writing metal - any better? I guess I equate a creative outlet as having carry over benefits in other parts of life, not to mention it actually makes me happy. Social media is proven to make people depressed and inadequate but, like any addiction, even in the face of awareness to the evidence, it sucks you in anyway.  

A collector nut might be driven to financial ruin and/or living in a cluttered environment is also terrible for mental health.

Mind you, no worse than the bazillion cables I have snaking around my feet as I tap this out.

Interesting point about "most metalheads" being unemployable drunken thickies. In my younger days, yes I suppose I came across quite a few. If I go back to my hometown I probably can find examples of dudes who have never gotten anywhere in life and still listen to metal as their one beacon of joy in this miserable world.

But, which comes first - the meathead or the metalhead? Are these people hobbled in life because they listen to metal or were they going to be like that anyway.

I think it's unknowable.

[navybsn]

2 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Social media is proven to make people depressed and inadequate but, like any addiction, even in the face of awareness to the evidence, it sucks you in anyway.

My dearly departed mother-in-law, who was born in the 1930's, used to say that the internet was the worst invention man had ever come up with. I always disagreed with her because I see the value in access to unlimited information. These days I think see was on to something, but it's actually Social Media that is said invention. My 24 yo does nothing other than SM and I can see the direct negative impact on her mental health. Anxiety, poor motivation, low engagement with the real world, and difficulty establishing herself in the adult world. If I ever come to power as Emperor for Life over all human kind, first decree would be to ban all forms of SM.

2 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Interesting point about "most metalheads" being unemployable drunken thickies. In my younger days, yes I suppose I came across quite a few. If I go back to my hometown I probably can find examples of dudes who have never gotten anywhere in life and still listen to metal as their one beacon of joy in this miserable world.

I know a few dudes locally who I wouldn't quite describe this way, but they tend to work low compensation jobs (restaurant work for instance) and fall on the lower end of the socioecomonic spectrum. I think it has more to do with education and other life choices and their age rather than their passions for specific music. Most of the dedicated heshers I know, like me, are well educated, have good jobs, and make a comfortable living.

On the other hand, I know quite a few folks back home that chose the "stoner" path in life and fit the description to a tee save for not being metalheads.

[JonoBlade]

17 minutes ago, navybsn said:

My 24 yo does nothing other than SM and I can see the direct negative impact on her mental health. Anxiety, poor motivation, low engagement with the real world, and difficulty establishing herself in the adult world. If I ever come to power as Emperor for Life over all human kind, first decree would be to ban all forms of SM.

Man, that is heart breaking. At 24 she really is in control of her own destiny now and the bad choices that entails. With a 13 year old we still have some sway over her use of the phone. To be honest, while I whinge about it, she isn't that bad compared to others. Mostly she just chats to school friends and listens to streaming music which is basically the same as I was at 13 with a walkman and dubbed cassette tapes. The real idiocrasy of social media hasn't kicked in yet. It's hard to know whether the toxic conflicts of 13 year old girls that have played out so far are better, worse or the same with social media accounts involved. 

The great tragedy to me is that these kids don't have any hobbies. Just something they can call their own other than staring at a stupid screen.

Yet, the internet is one of mankind's greatest inventions. It enables me to sit in my underpants typing a message to you while I'm supposed to be working. And I'm just as productive as I ever was.

It enabled me to find Transfigured In A Thousand Delusions | INANNA (bandcamp.com) and transfer some money directly to them for brightening my day.

It's better than being down a coal mine like my great grandad. He was a blacksmith, underground in t'pit.

[MacabreEternal]

2 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

 

Yet, the internet is one of mankind's greatest inventions. It enables me to sit in my underpants typing a message to you while I'm supposed to be working. And I'm just as productive as I ever was.

 

We are all in our underwear typing on here.  Right?

With you on the productivity piece though, I did a full blown sales presentation this morning to a client on Teams and they will never know I had no shoes or even slippers on and just had me budgie smugglers on to cover me areas.  I wouldn't be surprised if everyone at the client side wasn't fully dressed either.  Before COVID it was a full suit and out in person to do any pitches but thanks to the tech I hardly do this in person anymore.  Bodes well for when they decide to replace me with AI doesn't it?

[navybsn]

I'm actually wearing pants as I have learned from experience that it is frowned upon at my organization to show up to work without them.

[AlSymerz]

You should where a skirt and free ball it, then see how they react.

[navybsn]

Well, I am of Scottish heritage...

[AlSymerz]

Show 'em ya furry sack!

Sorry I mean sporran

 

[Koji_Boddicker]

16 hours ago, navybsn said:

Well, I am of Scottish heritage...

I met a Scotsman yesterday, who'd immigrated to my part of the United States of Shit to get married.  Lovely fellow.

[Sheol]

On 9/5/2023 at 4:17 PM, JonoBlade said:

Man, that is heart breaking. At 24 she really is in control of her own destiny now and the bad choices that entails. With a 13 year old we still have some sway over her use of the phone. To be honest, while I whinge about it, she isn't that bad compared to others. Mostly she just chats to school friends and listens to streaming music which is basically the same as I was at 13 with a walkman and dubbed cassette tapes. The real idiocrasy of social media hasn't kicked in yet. It's hard to know whether the toxic conflicts of 13 year old girls that have played out so far are better, worse or the same with social media accounts involved. 

The great tragedy to me is that these kids don't have any hobbies. Just something they can call their own other than staring at a stupid screen.

Yet, the internet is one of mankind's greatest inventions. It enables me to sit in my underpants typing a message to you while I'm supposed to be working. And I'm just as productive as I ever was.

It enabled me to find Transfigured In A Thousand Delusions | INANNA (bandcamp.com) and transfer some money directly to them for brightening my day.

It's better than being down a coal mine like my great grandad. He was a blacksmith, underground in t'pit.

I think the best decision we ever made as parents was not letting our kid play games, use social media or the internet, save for streaming movies/shows. Instead we steered her into painting, LEGO, music, creating and tinkering. She's almost a teenager now and I think her mental health are all the better for it.

[FatherAlabaster]

Bad idea of the day: spamming an open mic night with Pantera tribute songs played by whoever in the crowd happens to know a song a two. Would probably need to plant some musician friends to make it work. Name of the project will be Walk-on Homeboy.

[BLAMO]

I was away for over a month now and I have a lot of catching up to do, can't wait since there is not a lot of work today in the office

Was away because of diabetes, almost went blind, but now it's all getting better since I started to live healthier :)

I never watched what I ate or drink and I guess it just builds up. Now I am on a diet and feel great, I have a goal to drink only on concerts and festivals so cannot wait for Vienna Metal Meeting in October :)

[AlSymerz]

Sucks getting old and not being bullet proof any more.

[navybsn]

Well, got the word today that I got a significant promotion. Moving up to the Deputy Nurse Exec for my healthcare system. I'm not sure what they've done putting a dirty hesher in a position like that, but they're about to find out. Huge step up in responsibility and worst of all, I will now have to wear a suit or sport coat to work every day. Where's our resident fashionista @markm when I need him? Not sure about a step up in pay just yet, but I'm going to need something to stock the closet with something other than Archgoat and Vomitor shirts...

[FatherAlabaster]

1 minute ago, navybsn said:

Well, got the word today that I got a significant promotion. Moving up to the Deputy Nurse Exec for my healthcare system. I'm not sure what they've done putting a dirty hesher in a position like that, but they're about to find out. Huge step up in responsibility and worst of all, I will now have to wear a suit or sport coat to work every day. Where's our resident fashionista @markm when I need him? Not sure about a step up in pay just yet, but I'm going to need something to stock the closet with something other than Archgoat and Vomitor shirts...

Congratulations man, happy they weren't just blowing smoke at you. Hope the job brings good things with it.

[navybsn]

24 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Congratulations man, happy they weren't just blowing smoke at you. Hope the job brings good things with it.

Thanks dude!

[Dead1]

7 hours ago, navybsn said:

Well, got the word today that I got a significant promotion. Moving up to the Deputy Nurse Exec for my healthcare system. I'm not sure what they've done putting a dirty hesher in a position like that, but they're about to find out. Huge step up in responsibility and worst of all, I will now have to wear a suit or sport coat to work every day. Where's our resident fashionista @markm when I need him? Not sure about a step up in pay just yet, but I'm going to need something to stock the closet with something other than Archgoat and Vomitor shirts...

Congratulations.  Next promotion you will get to change uniform/dress code to make Archgoat and Vomitor shirts mandatory!

[GoatmasterGeneral]

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Congratulations.  Next promotion you will get to change uniform/dress code to make Archgoat and Vomitor shirts mandatory!

They'll be lucky if he doesn't make them all shave their heads like him.

[Dead1]

Women complaining they have to work "twice as hard to get recognition in metal."

And they now have special awards for women in heavy music.

 

https://wallofsoundau.com/2023/09/28/heavy-metal-reigns-at-the-australian-women-in-music-awards-conference-2023/?fbclid=IwAR3yq4T6pP60LhGh4ohsu6NNr7HCd3q5Z1gXOrs57Su5EJ4KgA6pz3PI9vo

 

 

This is fucking ridiculous.  

No women don't have to work twice as hard as men.  If your music sucks or is derivative it makes no difference if you have a dick or a pussy or whatever.

And in this day and age of the internet and market fragmentation, being in a quality band doesn't mean you will get any recognition regardless of gender.

 

And never before have we had to have awards for women in metal.  Fucking woke bullshit creeping its way into everything.

 

Gender or race or religion or whatever should not play any role in metal. 

[Nasty_Cabbage]

59 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

Women complaining they have to work "twice as hard to get recognition in metal."

And they now have special awards for women in heavy music.

 

https://wallofsoundau.com/2023/09/28/heavy-metal-reigns-at-the-australian-women-in-music-awards-conference-2023/?fbclid=IwAR3yq4T6pP60LhGh4ohsu6NNr7HCd3q5Z1gXOrs57Su5EJ4KgA6pz3PI9vo

 

 

This is fucking ridiculous.  

No women don't have to work twice as hard as men.  If your music sucks or is derivative it makes no difference if you have a dick or a pussy or whatever.

And in this day and age of the internet and market fragmentation, being in a quality band doesn't mean you will get any recognition regardless of gender.

 

And never before have we had to have awards for women in metal.  Fucking woke bullshit creeping its way into everything.

 

Gender or race or religion or whatever should not play any role in metal. 

It's a case of good intentions creating poor practices. Ultimately I don't care if they have their own award since it's not about the recognition anyway, or at least it shouldn't be. Metal music is part of an industry after all. A very niche industry, but an industry nonetheless, and on the few occasions when it makes the mainstream aware of it's presence (which does sometimes happen outside the U.S.) it should come as no surprise that it's treated with the same sort condescending cynicism other niche industries are. Think about how many times you've been in an airport or on a boat tour or something similar and seen a restaurant with a former Iron Chef's face plastered all over the location. It's the cost of doing business that the personality and some of the joy leaves only the faintest residual traces once something like that has been put into place.

The only real complaint I could lob at a whole separate category for women in metal is that women are absolutely not at any disadvantage when it comes to creating music. The whole thing just has a tendency to appeal more to guys. That's it. Whether we want to admit it or not our biochemical makeup has identifiably separate properties that result in different tendencies, but a lady who loves metal is not all that uncommon, and certainly not at a handicap when it comes to achievement in the field.

I remember at one point when thinking down this line of logic I had the thought to write a script for one of those odious lifetime network christmas movies that my girlfriend at the time was so fond of. My thinking was that the formula is essentially set in stone for these things so writing one myself shouldn't be that hard. What I ended up coming out with was an absolute farce of a script that tested every limit of tragedy and dark humor out there. Not a fitting lifetime movie at all. The bottom line was that I couldn't write a lifetime christmas movie because it ran counter to my personal sensibilities in writing and consequently never could gain any sort of mastery over the tone. It just didn't 'feel' right. In the same way I can see how some busy body could fuss over the lack of female creativity in metal (where, more than anything, the visual aesthetic appeal of women is used as a marketing tool to the large reserve of misguided male metalheads who don't often follow their thoughts to their logical conclusions) and say that it's an indicator that something is putting women at a disadvantage and needs to be consciously corrected. That's the 'good intentions' part of the equation. Unfortunately that's also what leads to the over-correction and highly inflammatory tone of rhetoric surrounding anything where this sort of issue is brought up. After all, if the lack of a female creative presence is that visible to nearly everybody, it stands to reason that it's due to a deliberate repression of female values by the powers that be. A petulant shadow dictator building his tree-house starting with the "no girls allowed" sign. 

I'll grant that sometimes this effect is overpronounced in certain fields, but man does it become tiresome. The best way to work within any creative field is to listen, find those above you that you admire, and be sincere and passionate in your creation. Don't be wholly dismissive and it goes a long way toward identifying the point at which things turned sour.

[Dead1]

14 hours ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

That's the 'good intentions' part of the equation. Unfortunately that's also what leads to the over-correction and highly inflammatory tone of rhetoric surrounding anything where this sort of issue is brought up.

Totally agree with  your post but thought this bit was good.

 

Metal is still art and art should not be something that needs to be corrected via affirmative action or whatever other modern solution.  If most women musicians don't want to play metal, then so be it.  Women should not be forced to get into metal.

 

Art should be an organic process driven by human creativity, not driven by committees and rules.

And I say that as a bureaucrat who thinks most human endeavours need limitations placed on them.

[navybsn]

23 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

They'll be lucky if he doesn't make them all shave their heads like him.

Considering 85% of the workforce I employ are female, I'd probably have better luck with the Vomitor shirts.

[Dead1]

20 minutes ago, navybsn said:

Considering 85% of the workforce I employ are female, I'd probably have better luck with the Vomitor shirts.

Hot dang, you're part of the patriarchy!  😜