What's on your mind?

[AlSymerz]

23 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

This is why I find GGs and Al's attitude of "it's just change" and "things are much better than you say" irritating. It's not good change and things should not be deteriorating, they should be improving.

You fill in too many blanks. The number of assumptions you've made about me, my political views, my status in life and my business is amazing. Sure I've deliberately left holes in statements to see what reaction it gets, but you're forever jumping to the conclusion that fits your argument, making up information because the details aren't specifically spelled out. That's politician behaviour, two sides, black and white, no medium ground, no alternative option, agree or disagree.

 

 

[Dead1]

1 hour ago, AlSymerz said:

You fill in too many blanks. The number of assumptions you've made about me, my political views, my status in life and my business is amazing. Sure I've deliberately left holes in statements to see what reaction it gets, but you're forever jumping to the conclusion that fits your argument, making up information because the details aren't specifically spelled out. That's politician behaviour, two sides, black and white, no medium ground, no alternative option, agree or disagree.

 

 

All happy for disagreement.  But one can only make so many assumptions about what people think based on what they say.  If you say "things are fine" then I will take that at face value you think things are fine.

 

The details are the guts of any human endeavour.   Literally the details determine true outcomes.  And trust me when I say the true outcomes often differ to stated outcomes due to details.

 

Vague statements are true politician behaviour - eg "we promise to fix the health system" or "we declare war on terror."  You can literally use such vague statements to achieve anything you want eg "fixing health system" by privatising it and washing government hands off it or "war on terror" to invade Iraq even though they had nothing to do with terrorism or actually support jihadi terrorists in Syria, Libya and Yemen to wage war against legitimate governments of those countries. 

 

Indeed the recent Voice referendum was great example of why details matter.  Literally the whole premise was vague as fuck.

 

It boiled down to following equation:

"Permanent non-binding Aboriginal advisory council = improved outcomes for Aboriginal people."

There was no detail on how it would operate, how it would base its decisions, what its scope was, how its membership would be determined etc etc let alone how this would result in improved outcomes for Aboriginal people.

 

 

[AlSymerz]

But I've never said things are fine.

[navybsn]

11 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

In politics you seem to have those that are blatantly out for themselves and those that are slightly less blatantly out for themselves.

They're all on the same side, just some are better at fooling us than others. Anyone smart enough and competent enough to do a good job is smart enough to know it's a losing proposition to try these days.

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

But that's across the US.  The US minimum wage has been frozen at $7.25 since July 2009

I would agree that this is outright criminal, but really just a talking point that doesn't present the total picture of fuckery at work. Wages in general have been stagnant and combined with obscene inflation in the housing market, auto industries, healthcare, and plenty of others have made the average American experience much less than that of previous generations. I make about 2-3x what either of my parents ever did combined, live modestly, and have about 20 more years to prepare for retirement on top of my existing annuity and guaranteed healthcare coverage yet I still have no expectations that I'll be able to retire before my health eventually declines taking me out of the workforce. Corporate profits, the lack of regulation and taxes, and the total devotion to the church of Wall Street will be the undoing of the American economy in the long run and will lead to eventual change although it will likely be nonviolent and a couple generations later than what is needed.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

8 hours ago, Dead1 said:

This is why I find GGs and Al's attitude of "it's just change" and "things are much better than you say" irritating. It's not good change and things should not be deteriorating, they should be improving.

And how Americans can be happy with the "progress" of their country is beyond me.

Please don't lump me in with the Orca.

It's not that I'm "happy" or I think things are better than you suggest. Maybe I play devil's advocate with you more often than I realize. I do basically agree with almost all of the stuff you're pissed off about. I don't even personally know anyone more left-wing or more anti-establishment than me, unless maybe if I were to count you.

I became an angry leftist when that scumbag Reagan was running for POTUS the first time in 1980. I went down and registered to vote specifically so I could cast my vote against that stupid son of a bitch. I've been an angry left-winger ever since then, and at this point after 43 years of being an angry young man, I'm not that young anymore and I sometimes get weary of being so angry all the time.

So maybe I've somewhat resigned myself to our fate. (by 'our' I mean good people like you and me everywhere) Because I just don't see anyone or any way for the trajectory of this shit to change. Politicians come and go and they talk a lot of shit, but they don't ever do anything. Nothing ever changes. In my online travels I tell everyone who'll listen: "watch what they do, not what they say." They need things to be somewhat fucked up and dysfunctional so they have some good shit to blame on ther opposition party in the next election and fundraise on. Even the small handful of idealistic "good ones" you see coming in as freshmen Congressmen quickly get assimilated and absorbed into the corrupt system. Sooner or later it will all come to a head and the shit will hit the fan. And then we'll come to the crossroads and we'll either pull our collective heads out and fix this shit or we'll let our western societies self destruct. But I don't have that many years left to walk this earth so I probably won't be around to see it.

I do still have the capacity to get quite angry over specific things though, just like it was 1984. Like currently I'm pretty fucking pissed off about the way the mainstream establishment is trying to shout down and squash any criticism whatsoever of the barbaric Israeli government by conflating it with anti-semitism and accusing us of supporting terrorism. All while the bloodbath rages on, and the bodies pile up. And that has my blood boiling today. But that's probbaly not the best topic for the metal forum, so maybe I'll just leave that there.

[AlSymerz]

Awe and I so wanted to be in a group of just GG and me.

[Dead1]

9 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Please don't lump me in with the Orca.

It's not that I'm "happy" or I think things are better than you suggest. Maybe I play devil's advocate with you more often than I realize. I do basically agree with almost all of the stuff you're pissed off about. I don't even personally know anyone more left-wing or more anti-establishment than me, unless maybe if I were to count you.

I became an angry leftist when that scumbag Reagan was running for POTUS the first time in 1980. I went down and registered to vote specifically so I could cast my vote against that stupid son of a bitch. I've been an angry left-winger ever since then, and at this point after 43 years of being an angry young man, I'm not that young anymore and I sometimes get weary of being so angry all the time.

So maybe I've somewhat resigned myself to our fate. (by 'our' I mean good people like you and me everywhere) Because I just don't see anyone or any way for the trajectory of this shit to change. Politicians come and go and they talk a lot of shit, but they don't ever do anything. Nothing ever changes. In my online travels I tell everyone who'll listen: "watch what they do, not what they say." They need things to be somewhat fucked up and dysfunctional so they have some good shit to blame on ther opposition party in the next election and fundraise on. Even the small handful of idealistic "good ones" you see coming in as freshmen Congressmen quickly get assimilated and absorbed into the corrupt system. Sooner or later it will all come to a head and the shit will hit the fan. And then we'll come to the crossroads and we'll either pull our collective heads out and fix this shit or we'll let our western societies self destruct. But I don't have that many years left to walk this earth so I probably won't be around to see it.

I do still have the capacity to get quite angry over specific things though, just like it was 1984. Like currently I'm pretty fucking pissed off about the way the mainstream establishment is trying to shout down and squash any criticism whatsoever of the barbaric Israeli government by conflating it with anti-semitism and accusing us of supporting terrorism. All while the bloodbath rages on, and the bodies pile up. And that has my blood boiling today. But that's probbaly not the best topic for the metal forum, so maybe I'll just leave that there.

Totally agreem  Israel is runming an apartheid state.  Hamas' actions are despicable but Israel have been the bad guys here for decades.

 

Great irony is Israel fostered Hamas as a counter to secular PLO.  Much like US and its 1980s friend, Osama Bin-Laden,Israel's relationship with its religious zealot spawn has been a disaster for the Israeli people

 

14 hours ago, navybsn said:

...and will lead to eventual change although it will likely be nonviolent and a couple generations later than what is needed.

I don't think any change will be nonviolent, at least in US with its increasing social divison and armed populace.

 

To be honest I expect no change.  Things will continue to decline until living standards and social structure in many parts of the west comes to look more like places like Phillippines or India or South Africa - handful of rich, small middle class and endless poor living in squalor.

It is already happening slowly.

 

Modern westerners have no ability to truly change the system:

1. Socialist imcludong true social democratic ideology is completely discredited even among the supposed left.  That only leaves increasingly deregulated capitalism as the only ideological choice for organising society.

 

2. Hyper individualism,social fragmentation  and consumerism- people no longer care as much about the collective.  They are even happy to lose rights as long as they can access consumer goods.

Western societies were a lot more collectivist when they fought laissez fairre capitalism between 1800s and 1970s.

 

Now most people have no interest or connection to their communities save consumption of goods and services.

 

3. The ruling system is engrained in every aspect of society and far more comprehensively than in the past .

Everything from control of money to supply of food to governance is now part of a massive global network. 

 

4. Eveything today is so deliberately overcomplicated to reduce transparency and accountability and increase risk if changed.

System has been designed to promote inertia and confusion and thus create aversion to real change in both political elites and the populace.

 

5. The youth are willing participants in the system even if they are main victims of adverse changes

The modern youth don't care even when their lives are at stake eg average age of Ukrainian soldiers is over 40 years old.  The youth would rather just avoid the war or even emigrate out.

If they can't even stand up to a barbaric, murderous invader how are they going to stand up tp the corporations and their political lackeys?

 

TL:DR no change in foreseeable future.

 

 

[JonoBlade]

23 hours ago, Dead1 said:

1. Socialist including true social democratic ideology is completely discredited even among the supposed left.  That only leaves increasingly deregulated capitalism as the only ideological choice for organising society.

2. Hyper individualism, social fragmentation  and consumerism- people no longer care as much about the collective.  They are even happy to lose rights as long as they can access consumer goods.

Western societies were a lot more collectivist when they fought laissez fairre capitalism between 1800s and 1970s.

Now most people have no interest or connection to their communities save consumption of goods and services.

3. The ruling system is engrained in every aspect of society and far more comprehensively than in the past .

Everything from control of money to supply of food to governance is now part of a massive global network. 

4. Everything today is so deliberately overcomplicated to reduce transparency and accountability and increase risk if changed.

System has been designed to promote inertia and confusion and thus create aversion to real change in both political elites and the populace.

5. The youth are willing participants in the system even if they are main victims of adverse changes

The modern youth don't care even when their lives are at stake eg average age of Ukrainian soldiers is over 40 years old.  The youth would rather just avoid the war or even emigrate out.

If they can't even stand up to a barbaric, murderous invader how are they going to stand up tp the corporations and their political lackeys?

1. Best option in my view is capitalism with massive regulation to keep it in check. Nationalising essential services. There isn't much hope of it happening, but in principle it could keep both moderate left and right somewhat satisfied. Communism doesn't work because healthy competition is stifled which otherwise drives forward innovation. Unchecked capitalism doesn't work because half the population lives in poverty and profit is put before a survivable planet.

2. Collectivism. This is personally my biggest hurdle. I think I have a fairly sensible handle on consumerism and do not live beyond my means. I could live in a house that is three times the size but don't because I don't need it (nor want that level of mortgage debt, whereas others wouldn't care and will max out whatever they can get from a bank). But I am terrible at contributing to the community. I live in an apartment complex yet barely see neighbours. I keep forgetting to go to the AGM. I did sign up to a mentor program yesterday (did it last year too) where some unsuspecting underprivileged teen is going to have to suffer my peculiar worldview and deflect attempts to impose metal on them.

4. Just look at the monetary system. This has to be due for another collapse. Logically AI is far more adept at finding patterns and manipulating the money markets. I don't understand why anyone needs traders anymore. As you say, it is designed to be as murky and complicated as possible without any link to actual reality.

5. I hadn't thought about this too much. The youth for a few generations have been self-serving assholes like me. Mind you, I'm only self-serving in the sense that I look after myself first - but I do try not to have adverse impact on those around me. I am a firm believer in getting your own house in order first. I wonder whether it may be a way to get the far right on board with environmentalism if you say "fine, we'll keep out the boats of ****ies, but we're going to clean up our country and shore up food/energy security by using best practice. Gut the lobbyists and listen to the science."

Edited October 25, 2023 by FatherAlabaster
housekeeping

[Dead1]

14 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

This is personally my biggest hurdle. I think I have a fairly sensible handle on consumerism and do not live beyond my means. I could live in a house that is three times the size but don't because I don't need it (nor want that level of mortgage debt, whereas others wouldn't care and will max out whatever they can get from a bank).

 

I agree with your entire post, especially about heavily regulated capitalism.

 

This part of your post resonates - I used to try to live with a far smaller footprint than on average.  But my wife is 100% Australian and that means seeking to expand your consumption as much as you can.  And she won,

Hence we moved to a 4 bedroom house with 2 bathrooms and so big it needs 2 heat pumps (there's only 3 of us) that was further away from town and where we worked.  So now we have to run 2 cars (I used to be able to walk to work) and have to travel 30 km return each day.

 

Our environmental footprint has expanded massively as such.

 

She also wants to get into the rental property game which I am highly opposed on both ethical and financial grounds.  On paper she is more "progressive" than me.  She will spout environmental concerns when she's trying to convince me to spend more money on things we don't need.

 

And there's the rub - with the destruction of old Protestant and/or social democratic values and promotion of consumer excess for over 30 years, even the most "progressive" Australians are tacitly fucking over the planet and their fellow Australians over.

Australians are one of the highest polluters per capita after Canada.  Australians don't care about anything save their large houses, large SUVs and large TVs.

 

[Dead1]

In other news, finally an event in Tassie that @GoatmasterGeneral will want to attend!

https://www.facebook.com/goatfesttasmania

[FatherAlabaster]

7 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

In other news, finally an event in Tassie that @GoatmasterGeneral will want to attend!

https://www.facebook.com/goatfesttasmania

That is a brutal lineup.

[AlSymerz]

Where all your nanny fetishes can be fulfilled

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

1 hour ago, AlSymerz said:

Where all your nanny fetishes can be fulfilled.

What happens in the barnyard stays in the barnyard, right mate? 😉

 

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

In other news, finally an event in Tassie that @GoatmasterGeneral will want to attend!

Send me a ticket mate! Pick me up at the airport and we can listen to some of the metal we have in common on the drive down to the farm, while we have a little chinwag, talkin' shit about all these sad acts on the forum, it'll be fun. Then once on site we can have a few coldies, maybe nibble on a goat kebab or two, then cap the day off by mounting a few goats as the sun sets over Mount Blackwood (and I'm not talking about taxidermy bruv) and we'll have some cool stories to tell our grandkids. If your wife lets you of course. She probably wouldn't be too keen on you hanging around with some dirty obnoxious Yank when you're supposed to be on family time duty. Guess I could maybe run into the city and grab some expensive American consumer goods to bribe her with, just tell me what brands she's into.

[AlSymerz]

53 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

What happens in the barnyard stays in the barnyard, right mate? 😉

What do you think the goat festival is for if it's not for sharing in someone elses yard?

[Dead1]

It's scary how immigration to Australia is creating a massive new underclass.  When we came to this country in 1982, my dad's first job was a lowly cleaner but salaries at his unionised workplace (textile factory) meant we could afford to live very comfortably on a single wage (my abusive, financially clueless and insane mother fucked it up by racking up credit card debt in late 1980s but that's another story).

 

Now the stats show immigrants to Australia are on average earning only the minimum wage ($45,000) and lag some $7,000 behind Australian median wage ($52,000).  And here in Tasmania their median income was a dismal $31,000.

They had higher unemployment yet large numbers of them needed more than 2 jobs (3.6 million migrants working 5.3 million jobs).

Another report I read said at least 9% were not paid legally required minimum wage.

https://www.abs.gov.au/media-centre/media-releases/new-migrant-jobs-and-income-data-release#:~:text=Personal Income in 2019-20&text=Migrants living in the Australian,had the lowest (%2431%2C093).

 

Latest inflation stats show housing, fuel and food continuing to skyrocket, ironically fuelled by really high immigration (Net Overseas Migration was near 500,000 in period March 22 to March 23).  We're literally creating poverty.

 

[Dead1]

Amazing how often I have conversations that remind me that in fact most people on this planet deserve whatever suffering and depravations they get.  Hypocrisy,entitlement misguided loyalty and protecting wrong doers such as pedohiles at my work  because they didn't want to rock the boat.

Reminds me I should tune in on news and revel in all that inflicting of suffering in Ukraine and Israel and bishfires in north Australia.  Humans getting what we all deserve.

 

Humans are shit and deserve themselves.  Shame about all the other creatures that will suffer through our demented xenocodal reign on this planet.

[JonoBlade]

On 10/29/2023 at 9:56 AM, Dead1 said:

Humans are shit and deserve themselves.  Shame about all the other creatures that will suffer through our demented xenocodal reign on this planet.

"Xenocidal" would be wiping out aliens (as per book by Orson Scott Card which I must have read years ago. When I could read). We are more experts in ecocide and effectively suicidal.

On 10/26/2023 at 1:07 AM, Dead1 said:

On paper she is more "progressive" than me.  She will spout environmental concerns when she's trying to convince me to spend more money on things we don't need.

Much of the western progressives are like this. They like to talk the talk, but unwilling to make changes in their own lives.

At least you know where you stand with fundamentalist conservatives. The reasoning for their worldview may be deeply flawed but at least they live by it. Brainless, though it may be.

Progressives often have half a brain. But the other half is the bit that would actually achieve something.

[Dead1]

6 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

"Xenocidal" would be wiping out aliens (as per book by Orson Scott Card which I must have read years ago. When I could read). We are more experts in ecocide and effectively suicidal.

Is ecocidal a word yet?

Quote

 

Much of the western progressives are like this. They like to talk the talk, but unwilling to make changes in their own lives.

At least you know where you stand with fundamentalist conservatives. The reasoning for their worldview may be deeply flawed but at least they live by it. Brainless, though it may be.

Progressives often have half a brain. But the other half is the bit that would actually achieve something.

 

I agree.

 

I think the problem with modern progressives is they actually stand for nothing.  Economically they're all right wing or centre right at the best.  You never hear about progressives talking about nationalisation of industries, curbing immigration, curbing worst aspects of international trade (exploitation and environmental destruction)  or curbing consumerism.

They have espouse libertarian viewpoints for certain people - freedom of choice for nearly everything (including drugs) and even tolerance of people's right to be a criminal via decriminalisation and soft sentencing.  

Yet they promote censorship and cancelling of those they don't agree with - cancelling people, destroying statues, removing movies, banning symbols etc.

They don't ascribe to people having agency.  So whilst you are free to chose, if you make bad choices that's the fault of government.

It's almost perverse in that many of them would view listening to NSBM as a greater evil than actually committing a violent crime (coz that one's not their fault especially if the criminal is a visible minority).

 

Their environmentalism is virtue signalling.  They don't promote actual policies that would reduce pollution.  Eg carbon zero doesn't stop pollution.  It doesn't even stop carbon emissions because so much of it is smoke and mirrors.

They tend to focus on extreme minorities over the welfare of all  (eg focus on transgender rights - only 0.04% of the Australian population identified as transgender in 2016 ABS survey).

 

Their main point seems to be that heterosexual white men are evil.

The true left wing of old knew what it stood for and they knew what it wanted - better rights and living standards for all people.  But that left wing was destroyed from 1980s onwards.

 

Indeed this is why the working classes now vote for likes of Trump etc.  

 

And I say all of the above as a true left wing person.  

[Dead1]

It's pretty horrific when on a list of 22 people covering up paedophiles in government services in a government report, I have worked with 6 and had thought 4 of them were quite good and honest.

 

And hell I was talking to one of them on the weekend and they were minimising it.  I didn't know they had been mentioned in report as someone involved in covering up.

 

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-10-31/tasmanian-public-servants-named-potential-misconduct-concerns/103044044

It's actually quite traumatising that something like this could happen in my workplace and that people I thought were good and honest did some terrible shit or just didn't care.

 

(Oh and sadly nothing will happen to them - they've all been quietly retired and found new jobs).

[Thatguy]

And on a lighter note - Thatguy's back after a very nice trip with Mrs Thatguy and for part of the trip the daughter, the son and the son's partner - London, Leicester, Brussels, Bruges, Ghent, Luxembourg, Nancy, Strasbourg, Colmar, Reims then back to London via Paris Singapore

[Dead1]

1 hour ago, Thatguy said:

And on a lighter note - Thatguy's back after a very nice trip with Mrs Thatguy and for part of the trip the daughter, the son and the son's partner - London, Leicester, Brussels, Bruges, Ghent, Luxembourg, Nancy, Strasbourg, Colmar, Reims then back to London via Paris Singapore

That sounds like an awesome holiday.

 

Did you hire a car or did you se public transport (I'm, going to Europe next year so curious)

[AlSymerz]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

And on a lighter note - Thatguy's back after a very nice trip with Mrs Thatguy and for part of the trip the daughter, the son and the son's partner - London, Leicester, Brussels, Bruges, Ghent, Luxembourg, Nancy, Strasbourg, Colmar, Reims then back to London via Paris Singapore

Whois thatguy?

[Thatguy]

3 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Did you hire a car or did you se public transport (I'm, going to Europe next year so curious)

All by train. Trains expensive in the UK but reasonably priced in Belgium and France. 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

6 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Thatguy's back after a very nice trip with Mrs Thatguy

Very cool. Nice to have you back old chap, I missed you.

Was a time I would have loved to have taken a tiki tour of Europe and it was on the list, but I'll probably never do it now that it's just me and the smart-mouthed 9 year old.

 

15 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

At least you know where you stand with fundamentalist conservatives. The reasoning for their worldview may be deeply flawed but at least they live by it. Brainless, though it may be.

But they don't live by it Jon-O Blade. I'm surrounded by these sanctimonious idiots here in the land of the free and the home of the brave, and time after time they are exposed to be total hypocrites. That's what's so enraging, that they so often turn out to be not just as bad as, but so much worse than the godless heathens they like to claim moral superiority over. It's all projection, they go harder than anyone railing against all the debased shit that it turns out they're guilty of themselves. Yet most people still gullibly believe the masquerade. Which brings us back to Deadly's conclusion that basically everyone's full of shit. The truth is almost no one walks the walk, maybe 1% at best and that's being naively optimistic.

 

[Thatguy]

2 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

a tiki tour of Europe

Not quite a Tiki tour, but we did a lot of champagne tasting/drinking at Reims.

 

2 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

basically everyone's full of shit.

And then you die...the human condition.