What Are You Listening To?

[GoatmasterGeneral]

1 hour ago, Dead1 said:

Personally I think postmodernism is a disastrous school of thought.  I agree with it in essence - nothing has true objective meaning or intrinsic value.  All of those are created by subjective human minds. All of existence is essentially nihilistic ie without any value (positive or negative). 

And like any nihilism, it destroys meaning in human existence.  Taken to its logical conclusion, it's extremely destructive as it removes all barriers to violent and destructive behaviour.  

Not only is there no "good or bad" art, there is also no "good or bad" human behaviour.  Murder and rape are essentially the same as having a cup of tea or folding some washing in terms of morality.

And post modernism does actually support this notion.  We already hear post modernists saying cultural values are not comparable and thus criticism not possible.  Eg westerners can't criticise one culture for honour killings because that culture's value set is different to western ones.  

What's left after stripping all values is nothing except base self indulgence be it indeed having a cup of tea or murdering someone.

So personally even though I define all of human existence as essentially meaningless, I chose to have a value set in order to give meaning to my life.

That includes art as well as socio-economic, political and other philosophical concepts.

Ironically the post-modernists and other nihilists also choose to give their lives meaning including very much adherence to the modern humanist cultural values developed in the Enlightenment.  

Post-modernism is not trying to say that there's no such thing as good or bad human behavior. It says there's no objectively good or bad human behavior, because concepts of good and bad behavior are societal constructs. It is up to each society (not the individual) to decide for themselves which behaviors will and won't be tolerated. In our modern day western society the killing of a fellow human being is not tolerated except under special circumstances, such as self defense or during wartime. Other societies could possibly have different sets of rules they live by. So in that respect the concept of "murder" is a societal contruct. There have been societies in this world that have committed all kinds of atrocities by our standards, but by their standards these acts were permissible. Look at the modern day middle east and their Sharia and the barbaric penalties they impose for certain behaviors that most of us westerners would probably think nothing of. How long has it been since certain civilizations thought it was a good idea to toss virgins into volcanos? Or look at Mormons right here in Utah in the USA where polygamy is not only tolerated but encouraged and perfectly legal, even while in the rest of our country it is not only frowned upon but punishable by law. Post-modernism does not mean life should be some kind of a lawless free for all where no rules exist. It says each society or tribe or whatever political groups we set up gets to decide for themselves what rules they will live by based on their own set of values that have meaning to them. 

[Dead1]

28 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Post-modernism is not trying to say that there's no good or bad human behavior. It says there's no objectively good or bad human behavior, because concepts of good and bad behavior are societal constructs. It is up to each society (not the individual) to decide for themselves which behaviors will and won't be tolerated. In our modern day western society the killing of a fellow human being is not tolerated except under special circumstances, such as self defense or during wartime. Other societies could possibly have different sets of rules they live by. So in that respect the concept of "murder" is a societal contruct. There have been societies in this world that have committed all kinds of atrocities by our standards, but by their standards these acts were permissible. Look at the modern day middle east and their Sharia and the barbaric penalties they impose for certain behaviors that most of us westerners would probably think nothing of. How long has it been since certain civilizations thought it was a good idea to toss virgins into volcanos? Post-modernism does not mean life should be some kind of a lawless free for all where no rules exist. It says each society or tribe or whatever political groups we set up gets to decide for themselves what rules they will live by based on their own set of values that have meaning to them. 

 

Postmodernism does not even promote concept of adhering to social values or laws or whatever.  It has no stance in this regard because it ascribes to no value set.  It certainly does not ascribe primacy to any one social group be it the nation state, religion, ethnicity, profession or any of the myriad of subgroups that form human societies.

Under post modernism belonging to a violent criminal gang or cult is no different to being an upstanding law abiding member of mainstream society.

None can be judged as each sets their own standards of moral behaviour.  And none are good or bad.

Under post modernism the Bandidos motorcycle gang are intrinsically no different to the Girl Scouts.  If selling meth and beating people up for not paying their drug debts or killing them for encroaching on your territory is part of your culture/value set then that can't be viewed as bad from the perspective of other groups who view that behaviour as bad.

 

As I said postmodernism is basically nihilism.

 

Even many intellectuals regard it as basically an anti-intellectual concept that contributes nothing to human understanding as it is in itself essentially meaningless.  

[RelentlessOblivion]

Great now I’m having philosophy flashbacks, next you’ll be espousing the virtues of ethical egoism…

 

NP: Enslaved - Frost

[Dead1]

58 minutes ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Great now I’m having philosophy flashbacks, next you’ll be espousing the virtues of ethical egoism…

 

Also a nihilistic philosophy that promotes acting in your self interest at the expense of everything else.  Literally libertarianism taken to the nth degree.  It literally posits that if you view being a serial killer in your self interest*, then you should act on those impulses.

On the other hand I do agree with concepts of psychological egoism and rational egoism which posit that people naturally act according to their self interest and that it is rational for them to act in their own self interest.  (So basically it explains human behaviour rather than providing a moral justification for it like ethical egoism does).

 

As a socialist I tend to ascribe to utilitarianism.  In fact most people do to some degree (eg putting the serial killer in gaol, ie deprive one individual of something to maximise benefit for all).

*Cause self interest is also self-defined and not necessarily rational.  Eg some poor people view opposing pro-poor anti-rich laws in their self interest because they believe they will be rich one day despite the likelihood of this happening being very low.

Slayer - Seasons In The Abyss

[JamesT]

AC/DC - "Let There Be Rock"

Judas Priest - "Angel of Retribution"

Judas Priest - "Nostradamus"

Judas Priest - "Redeemer of Souls"

Judas Priest - "Firepower"

Cattle Decapitation - "Death Atlas" 

[Dead1]

41 minutes ago, JamesT said:

 

Cattle Decapitation - "Death Atlas" 

That album was the end of my interest in this band.  They'd lost all sense of brutality and became too melodic and sanitised.

[RelentlessOblivion]

2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

Also a nihilistic philosophy that promotes acting in your self interest at the expense of everything else.  Literally libertarianism taken to the nth degree.  It literally posits that if you view being a serial killer in your self interest*, then you should act on those impulses.

On the other hand I do agree with concepts of psychological egoism and rational egoism which posit that people naturally act according to their self interest and that it is rational for them to act in their own self interest.  (So basically it explains human behaviour rather than providing a moral justification for it like ethical egoism does).

 

As a socialist I tend to ascribe to utilitarianism.  In fact most people do to some degree (eg putting the serial killer in gaol, ie deprive one individual of something to maximise benefit for all).

*Cause self interest is also self-defined and not necessarily rational.  Eg some poor people view opposing pro-poor anti-rich laws in their self interest because they believe they will be rich one day despite the likelihood of this happening being very low.

Slayer - Seasons In The Abyss

I was being somewhat facetious, having studied philosophy, I’m well aware anyone familiar with the concept of ethical ego ism would rightly point out just how flawed it is, though I do find it very amusing, how the satanic bible shares many similarities with that particular concept. Also, being a socialist, I’m all aboard the utilitarianism train.

 

NP: Sadistik Exekution - We Are Death, Fukk You

[AlSymerz]

Dr. Know - Wreckage In Flesh

[Nasty_Cabbage]

Good lord, it is so nice to see people competently and amicably sparring over philosophy. Almost everybody I meet in real life wouldn't know how to begin to form a discussion. I will say that philosophy is probably a poor choice of major unless you're going for a very specific career-wise. A few courses in it, though, is a fantastic way to gain some insight that might not benefit you materially, but will almost certainly enrich your life as a whole.

NP: Axis of Advance - Obey

Obey | AXIS OF ADVANCE | Osmose Productions (bandcamp.com)

I really miss these guys. Prior to this album I had always felt their albums were pretty average for the black metal scene at the time, with some notable exceptions. Those exceptions and high points were really fucking high, though. Then they dropped this beast. Not a bad track. Hell not even an average track. Just excellence all the way through. This is actually a sci-fi concept album which is pretty rare for the style they play. You can take or leave it though since, with or without knowing that, the album still wreaks havoc on your neck. Then they promptly vanished into the ether afterword, right after their finest moment.

[AlSymerz]

Think Of Misery - Poverty Is No Disgrace

[GoatmasterGeneral]

Flower - Hardly a Dream, 2022 NY Anarcho Crust Punk with female vocals

 

Mortuarial Avshy - Dissonant Path (The First Two Proclamations of Hate) rbm Chile

 

Kringa - All Stillborn Fires, Lick My Heart, Austrian black 2022, a little different than what I normally go for but I like it

 

[Dead1]

2 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

I was being somewhat facetious, having studied philosophy, I’m well aware anyone familiar with the concept of ethical ego ism would rightly point out just how flawed it is, though I do find it very amusing, how the satanic bible shares many similarities with that particular concept. Also, being a socialist, I’m all aboard the utilitarianism train.

I don't know much about Satanism but isn't it basically "earth is hell, so do as you please"?

[Thatguy]

1 hour ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

Then they promptly vanished into the ether afterword, right after their finest moment.

It's pretty good. And no wussy intro.

7 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

I don't know much about Satanism but isn't it basically "earth is hell, so do as you please"?

It varies from anti-Christian polemic (but on Christian terms , so bollocks) or humanism wearing 'Satanic' clothes made up to torment Christians by demanding equal time. This latter strain is rather amusing but still, in the end, bollocks.

[AlSymerz]

Sacrilege BC - Party With God

[GoatmasterGeneral]

1 hour ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

Axis of Advance - Obey

I really miss these guys. Prior to this album I had always felt their albums were pretty average for the black metal scene at the time, with some notable exceptions. Those exceptions and high points were really fucking high, though. Then they dropped this beast. Not a bad track. Hell not even an average track. Just excellence all the way through. This is actually a sci-fi concept album which is pretty rare for the style they play. You can take or leave it though since, with or without knowing that, the album still wreaks havoc on your neck. Then they promptly vanished into the ether afterword, right after their finest moment.

Reports of their death have been greatly exaggerated. They did not "vanish into the ether" my philosophical friend. Two of these three guys here, J Reade and Vermin, make up a two-piece war metal band you might have heard of called Revenge. Also based in Edmonton Canadia. A of A released 3 abums in the early 2000's, this final one you've posted Obey was in 2004. Then as Revenge they went on to release 6 full length albums (and a few EP's and slpits) from 2003 to 2020. Band is still listed as active.  J Reade was also in Conqueror in the late 90's. 

 

Revenge - Infiltration.Downfall.Death, 2008

 

21 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

It varies from anti-Christian polemic (but on Christian terms , so bollocks) or humanism wearing 'Satanic' clothes made up to torment Christians by demanding equal time. This latter strain is rather amusing but still, in the end, bollocks.

In the end it's all bullocks, innit? Every last bit of it. And by "it" I mean everything, ever.

[JamesT]

8 hours ago, Dead1 said:

That album was the end of my interest in this band.  They'd lost all sense of brutality and became too melodic and sanitised.

Interesting perspective!  That's the beauty of music - we all hear the music differently.  "Death Atlas" is actually where my interest continued to grow.  I don't really care for their earlier stuff, but on 2015's "The Anthropocene Extinction", it all clicked for me, and Travis Ryan began using that disturbing melodic vocal style more frequently.  That's the facet of the music that drew me in much more deeply.  I find his "cleans" to be more unsettling than his gutturals, which is an incredible feat to pull off.  At any rate, these last 3 albums (including "Terrasite" now) are some of my favorite metal albums ever released.  But I totally respect your opinion on it!  It's fascinating to see how we can all hear these albums and come away with very different viewpoints in many cases! 

[Thatguy]

5 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

In the end it's all bullocks, innit? Every last bit of it. And by "it" I mean everything, ever.

Pretty much.

(The typo tempted me toward all sorts of different responses but it's getting toward bed time and I can't be bothered because, well, you know.)

[MarkhantonioYeatts]

DARK TENNIS - Wimbledoom

CONTRACT KILLER - Contract Killer

COFFIN MULCH - Spectral Intercession

 

[Arioch]

DARK TENNIS - Wimbledoom 🤣

[Kristiko]

Slayer - South of Heaven (album)

[Serpentboi1992]

[Thatguy]

6 hours ago, MarkhantonioYeatts said:

DARK TENNIS - Wimbledoom

I had no idea what to expect but I listened just because of the silly name. I now look forward to more sport themed metal.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

I had no idea what to expect but I listened just because of the silly name. [Dark Tennis - Wimbledoom] I now look forward to more sport themed metal.

Marko's great at finding these blackened crust and blackened grindcore bands. I have to work a lot harder to find that kind of stuff now since he doesn't spend as much time here anymore. But from his previous posts I've figured out which Youtube channels I need to monitor. At the very least: Grindwar, Gore Grinder, Felopunk, Psyfrost. And of course there's my favorite No Gleaming Light, still the only YT channel I've ever clicked subscribe on. And Junkie Business has been a gold mine for less extreme punk rock.

 

Sacrificial Decay - Obliteration Rites, Portland OR

 

Systemik Viølence - Negative Mangel Attitude, Portugal

 

[AlSymerz]

Sacrilege BC - Too Cool To Pray

[Dead1]

13 hours ago, JamesT said:

Interesting perspective!  That's the beauty of music - we all hear the music differently.  "Death Atlas" is actually where my interest continued to grow.  I don't really care for their earlier stuff, but on 2015's "The Anthropocene Extinction", it all clicked for me, and Travis Ryan began using that disturbing melodic vocal style more frequently.  That's the facet of the music that drew me in much more deeply.  I find his "cleans" to be more unsettling than his gutturals, which is an incredible feat to pull off.  At any rate, these last 3 albums (including "Terrasite" now) are some of my favorite metal albums ever released.  But I totally respect your opinion on it!  It's fascinating to see how we can all hear these albums and come away with very different viewpoints in many cases! 

Cleans aren't Ok.  The bigger issue is the music got more melodic and the production more hollowed out.  It has no bite unlike say Monolith of Inhumanity.  New one's even more gutless - it really sounds like they're going through the motions and comes across as a death grind Sabaton.