Why some people like (,or dislike) Nu metal?

[GoatmasterGeneral]

42 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

 combination of intensity and bombast coupled with focus on guitar riffs (preferrably with a razor sharpness), punk attitude and memorable song writing.

That's funny because I couldn't have described what I look for in black metal any better than that. I wouldn't have used the word bombast, (I'd probably substitute filth or evil or something like that for bombast) but all of them other words were dead on. Obviously my requirements have changed a bit since 1976.

[BLAMO]

Attended Slipknot concert during the weekend in Munich. I really enjoyed their 2nd and 3rd album but I think it was the last time seeing them for me at least for a couple of years

The scenery was really great, it was the place where Hitler held his speeches. I would be happy if there would be no telephones allowed to the show, you had a hard time seeing to the stage because of IT

 

[DarkMetalGeek]

It is funny how a question so easy to answer turns quickly into something out of topic throwing hatred to everyone that disagrees with oneself.

asking "Why some people like (,or dislike) Nu metal?" is like asking "Why some people like color red?". There will be people that will like it and people that will hate it.

If you like Nu-Metal and can make suggestions to the OP, then go ahead! Spread the wisdom! Enlighten us all!

But comments like (It's just an example! Dont throw your rage at me please!):

"First of all most of it's not even metal eg stuff like Spineshank or Paparoach or Deftones or Linkin fucking Park or whatever was alternative rock not metal based.  Even Korn doesn't really do metal music."

Or

"I can't stand Symphonic Metal and it's slow Operatic bullshit that most female singers use"

Please remember that some people may have a different taste in music. Moreover, Linkin fucking Park or Nightwish with its Symphonic Metal and it's slow Operatic bullshit brought a lot of metalheads on board that discovered a new world of musical greatness.

Everybody deserves respect and in this regard, it makes me sad how many disrespectful people are into this musical style that I love that much.

And I am talking about METAL in all its wide and magnificent sense, ranging from Glam Metal to Black Metal.

One last word.
Rest in peace Chester Bennington. The world is not the same without your fucking genius on it. Some people still remember and miss you.

[Nasty_Cabbage]

1 hour ago, DarkMetalGeek said:

One last word.
Rest in peace Chester Bennington. The world is not the same without your fucking genius on it. Some people still remember and miss you.

Oh, come on man. It sucks that he died, but that shouldn't act as an aegis under which absurd hyperbole like that can pass without ridicule. This is the dude who wrote a cloying self pitying power-pop single about quitting cigarettes. If you enjoy Linkin Park good on 'ya. Keep enjoying it. I'm happy for you, but calling Bennington a genius is a cosmic exaggeration that's going to garner you some much deserved mockery. Nobody's saying you need to turn in your metalhead card, though, and It's not disrespect to point and laugh at the comical, deceased or not.

Just to show that I mean no personal disrespect, I'll own up to loving Joanna Newsom's music, and that stuff can come across like some of the most twee forcibly 'indie' manic pixie cliches out there. We all deserve some derision from time to time.

[DarkMetalGeek]

Do you see what I mean? Exactly that!

You just focus on a single word of all my post.

"This is the dude who wrote a cloying self pitying power-pop single about quitting cigarettes"

You just focus on a single song to describe lyrics for 6 studio albums.

😜

[DarkMetalGeek]

1 hour ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

I'm happy for you, but calling Bennington a genius is a cosmic exaggeration that's going to garner you some much deserved mockery.

I am unhappy that you, and a lot more people,  are not able identify irony.

[Nasty_Cabbage]

1 hour ago, DarkMetalGeek said:

Do you see what I mean? Exactly that!

You just focus on a single word of all my post.

"This is the dude who wrote a cloying self pitying power-pop single about quitting cigarettes"

You just focus on a single song to describe lyrics for 6 studio albums.

😜

The reason I only addressed the most egregious part of your post was because the rest of it was basically "different strokes for different folks" kind of fluff. Nobody disagrees with that sentiment at heart, but calling into question nu-metal's status as a subgenre of metal is not personal disrespect. If I had said something to the effect of "you sound like the type of person who might throw some carpet on the floor of his econo-line van and get upset when people refuse to call it your house" you could interpret that as disrespectful because it takes a pot shot at your character.

I didn't do that, though, but in the spirit of discourse let's look at the example you used stating that some people like the color red and others hate it.

 

First off that's a poor example because I seriously doubt anybody truly hates an entire color. They might hate it in fashion, or in painting, or on a flag. They might even hate a color as it's used in traffic signs owing to them being color-blind and therefore having a hard time discerning it's indications, but it's too broad of an equivocation to say others will "hate" the entire color in all it's forms. Secondly the subjectivity of taste will really only take you so far. Somebody who prefers scenery with pine trees may be just as valid in their opinion as the person who prefers palm trees. These people have differing opinions. There are others who believe pine trees can grow in Alaska. These people are wrong. The statement that Chester Bennington was a genius falls under the latter category.

 

Also where are you getting your definition of irony, Alanis Morisette? Irony is found in effects that have completely directly oppositional outcomes from what one would expect such as "Charles Bukowski's drinking problem eventually led his body to grow an extra lobe on his liver, prolonging his life." This is irony because heavy drinking in this case caused his liver to become healthier rather than decrepit as drinking is known to do.

 

However, when some one employs a similiar form of wordplay where the effect may only be partially oppositional or opposite a secondary expected outcome that doesn't serve as the basis of the statement, than the statement, though possibly humorous, cannot be said to employ irony. An example of this would be "In my darkest hour, some one told me that God never closes a door without opening a window, and I said I believed him. I neglected to say that I lived on the fortieth floor." The implication here is that he would interpret this as God sending him a negative message rather than the positive one his friend is implying. Though oppositional effects are in play, the literal expected outcome is that God would provide a means of exit from the apartment, which jumping out the presumably now open window literally would. Therefore this statement cannot be seen to employ irony.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

5 hours ago, DarkMetalGeek said:

It is funny how a question so easy to answer turns quickly into something out of topic throwing hatred to everyone that disagrees with oneself.

asking "Why some people like (,or dislike) Nu metal?" is like asking "Why some people like color red?". There will be people that will like it and people that will hate it.

If you like Nu-Metal and can make suggestions to the OP, then go ahead! Spread the wisdom! Enlighten us all!

But comments like (It's just an example! Dont throw your rage at me please!):

"First of all most of it's not even metal eg stuff like Spineshank or Paparoach or Deftones or Linkin fucking Park or whatever was alternative rock not metal based.  Even Korn doesn't really do metal music."

Or

"I can't stand Symphonic Metal and it's slow Operatic bullshit that most female singers use"

Please remember that some people may have a different taste in music. Moreover, Linkin fucking Park or Nightwish with its Symphonic Metal and it's slow Operatic bullshit brought a lot of metalheads on board that discovered a new world of musical greatness.

Everybody deserves respect and in this regard, it makes me sad how many disrespectful people are into this musical style that I love that much.

And I am talking about METAL in all its wide and magnificent sense, ranging from Glam Metal to Black Metal.

One last word.
Rest in peace Chester Bennington. The world is not the same without your fucking genius on it. Some people still remember and miss you.

You're not looking for discussion about a musical style, you're looking for a safe space from criticism. That's not how this metal community thing works. Everyone and everything gets criticized here. Metalheads shit on my music every day of the week and do you think I'm crying about it? People are entitled to their opinions whether we agree with them or not. Why should I care what others may think of the evil lo-fi filth I crave? Plenty of otherwise good sensible people who will routinely rubbish my favorite music. Indeed over the course of my entire life most people I've had occasion to speak to about music have tried to invalidate metal music and portray it as lesser than. But that doesn't change or invalidate how I feel about it. You need thick skin to be a metalhead. The world doesn't owe you understanding and everyone doesn't need to agree on everything all the time. We owe you common courtesy but not respect, that has to be earned.

Not sure what your example paragraph where you quoted a comment about how certain bands aren't really metal has to do with anything. Why should anyone be mindful of the fact that some people have different taste in music? We're giving our opinions of music that exists and that many of us happen to abhor, and those opinions won't change just because someone else somewhere likes it. Because who cares? You don't get to have your favorite bands accepted as being metal if most metalheads reject that idea. You're free to think it's whatever you want, but you can't expect or demand that others will agree with your wacky off-the-wall ideas. I wouldn't go on a Nu-metal forum and insist that they should accept my beloved Archgoat as nu-metal just because they both use guitars. Musical genres exist and have generally accepted definitions. Words have meanings.

Music criticism is valid. It's an art unto itself. Hate to break it to you Bud but as a rule most metalheads don't like pop music. Nu-metal is pop music, so for a metalhead to say they hate it isn't some big revelation or a hot take or outrageous or anything. That's the standard default metalhead position that nu-metal blows and is not metal. If you like it that's fine, but why should anyone care? Fact is many of us hate that some of this shit even exists. If that offends you just keep in mind the very existence of this stuff offends many of us and the fact that for over 25 years now there have been idiots who've insisted on calling it metal only compounds that offense. I'd say that makes us about even.

This is a metal forum where it would be expected that most of the people here joined to talk about metal. You're welcome to hang out and throw your two cents into the ring and maybe even learn something, who knows maybe you'll even run into someone who shares your taste in music. Stranger things have happened. But if the fact that most of us here hate nu-metal (or whatever the fuck Linkin Park is supposed to be) truly offends you, then maybe you shoud find a Linkin Park forum or join their fan club where you'll be surrounded by like-minded individuals who will love and praise their music and you'll feel right at home, snug as a bug in a rug.

But know that overwhelmingly most metalheads don't have any tolerance for that shit. And you're never going to get metalheads to be respectful of the shit we hate. It's just not in our nature. We will denounce it in no uncertain terms. Don't take it personally.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

1 hour ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

I seriously doubt anybody truly hates an entire color.

I truly hate not just one but two colors, green and pink. 

[Nasty_Cabbage]

24 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I truly hate not just one but two colors, green and pink. 

Something tells me there's a story here, but perhaps I'm better off not knowing. I mean, I kinda get the pink thing, but I primarily associate the color with some of the girls I went to high school with who'd walk around in pink sweatpants with something suggestive written on the ass, but I can hardly blame the color itself for that. Green is such a common color that I don't get that at all, but hey, you proved my earlier statement wrong in that regard, I guess.

 

Oh, speaking of those girls one of the first jobs I had out of high school involved using listed phone numbers of various home contractors (plumbers, masons, window installation, etc.) to catch scammers using home value and repair databases as a way to scope out retirees or first time homeowners who didn't know better to take money up front and disappear. Heads up, never pay a contractor for services up front, and unless they can provide you with an itemized receipt for specific tools necessary for your individual job, don't pay for supplies either. There's tons of thieves out there.

 

The job itself wasn't necessarily easy per se, but the knowledge required wasn't anything you were going to learn with a bachelor's degree, and since it paid decently it was very popular for younger fresh out of high school kids who were just not ready to continue their education right away, so a bunch of those girls worked the phones there with me. Anyway the hardest part of the job was the involved criteria for handling private information related to improvements, property values, and just where to exercise discretion so that you weren't absolutely destroying the reputations of young small business owners who lived and died by building a strong local clientele base. Training for that was an absolute nightmare not because of the work, but because almost all of these girls absolutely did not care to learn the actual job, but instead stretched training on for days longer than was necessary debating every little tiny restriction on what they could or could not wear to work. To this day if I hear anybody say " so we seriously aren't allowed to wear yoga pants?!" I'm filled with an irrational amount of rage.

 

Anyway, rant over.

[SurgicalBrute]

8 hours ago, DarkMetalGeek said:

Please remember that some people may have a different taste in music. Moreover, Linkin fucking Park or Nightwish with its Symphonic Metal and it's slow Operatic bullshit brought a lot of metalheads on board that discovered a new world of musical greatness.

Everybody deserves respect and in this regard, it makes me sad how many disrespectful people are into this musical style that I love that much.

I'm honestly a little curious here about what it is you'd like people to do? I see variations of this sort of comment quite often, but no one ever really elaborates about exactly what they mean by "be respectful". Should people just not express their dislike for something? Pretend they like it? Ignore the subject completely?

[AlSymerz]

3 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Metalheads shit on my music every day of the week and do you think I'm crying about it?

WFT are you on about? No one shits on your fucking woeful black metal. Talk about over sensitive!

2 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I truly hate not just one but two colors, green and pink. 

Pink bits with green on them would be pretty gross.

[Thatguy]

3 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Everyone and everything gets criticized here.

Fuck yeah.

 

2 hours ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

To this day if I hear anybody say " so we seriously aren't allowed to wear yoga pants?!" I'm filled with an irrational amount of rage.

That has made my day. But I doubt I will ever hear anyone say this myself.

[Dead1]

On 6/26/2023 at 9:39 PM, BLAMO said:

Attended Slipknot concert during the weekend in Munich. I really enjoyed their 2nd and 3rd album but I think it was the last time seeing them for me at least for a couple of years

The scenery was really great, it was the place where Hitler held his speeches. I would be happy if there would be no telephones allowed to the show, you had a hard time seeing to the stage because of IT

 

I'd actually go see Slipknot.  They appear to put on an excellent show!

9 hours ago, DarkMetalGeek said:

Please remember that some people may have a different taste in music. Moreover, Linkin fucking Park or Nightwish with its Symphonic Metal and it's slow Operatic bullshit brought a lot of metalheads on board that discovered a new world of musical greatness.

Everybody deserves respect and in this regard, it makes me sad how many disrespectful people are into this musical style that I love that much.

And I am talking about METAL in all its wide and magnificent sense, ranging from Glam Metal to Black Metal.

 

No doubt people have different taste in music.  Never said they shouldn't.  I said two things - explicitly that these bands aren't metal and implicitly my use of the term "fucking" implied I hate that band in particular..

I am allowed to hate them, am I not?   I am not very modern and my language tends to reflect that.  I have no time for modern "walking on egg shell" sensibilities.

[Balor]

4 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

You need thick skin to be a metalhead. The world doesn't owe you understanding and everyone doesn't need to agree on everything all the time. We owe you common courtesy but not respect, that has to be earned.

 

Doubly true for metal communities online!

[GoatmasterGeneral]

3 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

WFT are you on about? No one shits on your fucking woeful black metal. Talk about over sensitive!

I see what you did there my aquatic friend, but still you just proved my point. Because even when you're joking, you're still shitting on the bm. And that's ok.

Back in the 80's a lot of normies and commercial radio rock fans didn't like, understand or respect the thrash metal I loved so much. How many times did I have to hear the thrash/trash jokes? Didn't hurt my feelings or phase me or deter me in any way. If anything I found it funny, but I still liked thrash metal regardless of all the hate.

Now almost 40 years later I've noticed a pattern where not even normie metal haters, but even a lot of genuine metalheads, especially fans of some of the more popular mainstream, high profile subs will claim they like a variety of metal sub-genres, but frequently black metal won't be among them. And that's OK, that doesn't hurt my feelings or phase me either. We all like what we like, and don't what we don't.

But clearly black metal is the misunderstood and controversial red-headed step child of the metal world that must be disparaged and disrespected. Especially the more raw, filthy and primitive lo-fi stuff that I love the most. I've even had self-described metalheads on forums go as far as to say that no one could possibly genuinely like that shit so we must just be pretending to like it for virtue signaling purposes or to appear 'cool' or something.

I'm not saying that I think this is bad or good that many people don't appreciate black metal while some of them really strongly, actively dislike it, it's simply an observation. It is what it is. What other people think of it does not affect my enjoyment of it. I can accept that primitive lo-fi black metal is niche and esoteric even within the already niche genre of metal.

So my point to that other guy earlier was that it should not come as a surprise to find that many metalheads strongly dislike and will disrespect nu-metal and pop rock bands like Linkin Park at any opportunity, and that he shouldn't take that personally or let it affect his enjoyment of it. Even an organ sucking ocean predator like you should be able to understand that.

[Balor]

3 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I truly hate not just one but two colors, green and pink. 

According to trve black metal, this opinion is FALSE:

[AlSymerz]

1 minute ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I see what you did there my aquatic friend, but still you just proved my point. Because even when you're joking, you're still shitting on the bm. And that's ok.

Or was I shitting on you?

Or was I shitting on both BM and You?

Or was I just being a dick for the fun of it?

I haven't shit on Nu-Metal, but then Nu-Metal fans cry when their music gets picked on so it's not worth the pain.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

Just now, AlSymerz said:

Or was I shitting on you?

Or was I shitting on both BM and You?

Or was I just being a dick for the fun of it?

I haven't shit on Nu-Metal, but then Nu-Metal fans cry when their music gets picked on so it's not worth the pain.

 

I'm really not into being shit on by wrinkly old men with low hanging nads so if you don't mind I think I shall opt out of that activity this evening, but thank you for the kind offer. 

Whether you're shitting on me, or on the black metal, or on both, or being a dick just for the fun of it - doesn't make any difference. Even when it's in jest, you're still shitting on the black metal. And that's OK.

You have most certainly shit on nu-metal before or at least on some kind of commercial bullshit pseudo metal or whatever, but maybe you don't remember.  They say the memory is one of the first things to go.

[Dead1]

5 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

 Metalheads shit on my music every day of the week and do you think I'm crying about it? 

 

Metalheads shit on all music, even other metal.

I remember the death metal guys bagging out the fact I liked some power metal, black metal guys slamming thrash and death metal, a melodic metalcore fan bagging out some nu-metal fans at a concert I was working at, myself and another metal guy bagging out the metalcore guy for liking melodic metalcore.  Oh and the usual Motley Crue v Guns N Roses slugfests.  And pretty much every man and his dog shitting on modern Metallica.

And that's just "real life."

Online it's a total shit show, be it sledging out a lot of black metal, tech death, numetal, melodic metalcore, most power metal, progressive metal, symphonic power metal, djent, a lot of thrash and just about every band you can think of.  And yes I have engaged in this shit slinging myself.

 

Metal is elitist and quasi-religious.  Of course people are going to get loud about their likes and dislikes.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

31 minutes ago, Balor said:

According to trve black metal, this opinion is FALSE:

 Looks red to me man 😈

 

 

10 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

 

Metalheads shit on all music, even other metal.

I remember the death metal guys bagging out the fact I liked some power metal, black metal guys slamming thrash and death metal, a melodic metalcore fan bagging out some nu-metal fans at a concert I was working at, myself and another metal guy bagging out the metalcore guy for liking melodic metalcore.  Oh and the usual Motley Crue v Guns N Roses slugfests.  And pretty much every man and his dog shitting on modern Metallica.

And that's just "real life."

Online it's a total shit show, be it sledging out a lot of black metal, tech death, numetal, melodic metalcore, most power metal, progressive metal, symphonic power metal, djent, a lot of thrash and just about every band you can think of.  And yes I have engaged in this shit slinging myself.

 

Metal is elitist and quasi-religious.  Of course people are going to get loud about their likes and dislikes.

 

That's what I'm saying! Ragging on the other dude's shit is the time honored metal way. Everyone has engaged in this type of sledging behavior on some level at one point or another. People need to stop taking this shit personally. It's no different than friendly banter about opposing sports teams or whatever. All in good fun.

[AlSymerz]

10 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I'm really not into being shit on by wrinkly old men with low hanging nads so if you don't mind I think I shall opt out of that activity this evening, but thank you for the kind offer. 

Whether you're shitting on me, or on the black metal, or on both, or being a dick just for the fun of it - doesn't make any difference. Even when it's in jest, you're still shitting on the black metal. And that's OK.

You have most certainly shit on nu-metal before or at least on some kind of commercial bullshit pseudo metal or whatever, but maybe you don't remember.  They say the memory is one of the first things to go.

Wrinkly? Low hanging nads? And you said you didn't watch my naked pole dancing video!

I'm sure I'd remember if I ever once shit on an entire genre of such talented and expert musicians who play the most challenging and amazing music ever.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

16 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

Wrinkly? Low hanging nads? And you said you didn't watch my naked pole dancing video!

Yeah I think I did see that video once. 

[Thatguy]

53 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

Or was I just being a dick for the fun of it?

 

Not you!

 

57 minutes ago, Balor said:

According to trve black metal, this opinion is FALSE:

Excellent.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Still at a loss as to how voicing valid criticism of a genre is disrespectful. Could it be that they can’t conceive of a world where theirs is the unpopular position? Also it’s amusing to me the praise he heaped on Chester, I woldn’t use such language to describe Chuck Schuldiner and I’m a Death fanboy.

 

Also I hate the colours yellow and navy because I’m colour blind, so I never know whether I’m actually looking at those colours or if they are white and black given how my eyes work.