Controversial Metal Opinions

[FatherAlabaster]

Sometimes I hope that all traces of our culture except for videos like that are eradicated, to confuse archaeologists in the far future.

[Parker]

I'm not that into Immortal, but I always really liked their Blizzard Beasts album. However I hear that most fans didn't like it and in an interview Abbath said they had bitten off more than they could chew with that album.

[FatherAlabaster]

I probably haven't listened to Immortal in eight or nine years... I had Blizzard Beasts but really couldn't get into it. The ones I remember liking were At The Heart Of Winter and Battles In The North, but I honestly don't recall the music very well.

[RelentlessOblivion]

I think Emperor are among the most over-rated metal bands in history. Nightside Eclipse is a decent enough album I suppose but otherwise I find their music to be rather dull and uninspired.

[Parker]

I love Emperor except their last two albums, which suck.

[FatherAlabaster]

I think Emperor are among the most over-rated metal bands in history. Nightside Eclipse is a decent enough album I suppose but otherwise I find their music to be rather dull and uninspired.

I love Emperor except their last two albums' date=' which suck.[/quote'] I guess opinions are like assholes... I feel like they got more interesting with age, my favorite Emperor is still IX Equilibrium. I wasn't a big fan of Prometheus but I enjoyed Ihsahn's progression into his solo material. I haven't listened to the latest one. Wouldn't say I listen to any of them a lot, but he's definitely a musician I respect and follow.

[deathstorm]

Guys honest question. Your thoughts on. Ice Ts thrash metal band body count

[KSMASH]

I love Emperor's album "IX Equilibrium" and the Ihsahn solo material. Body Count is awesome. Cop Killer!!! Better you than me! And BAN... I think the formative works of both slam death and deathcore were around the same time (late 90s) and - to me - seem like parallel developments of extremely similar aesthetics. Typical slam is simplifying brutal death into pit-ready grooves, in deathcore's case they took mosh-core and added more death metal elements. Using different means to get to the same end, and in this case I think the means are more similar than most people think. And before people take the Wikipedia route and try to tell me deathcore came around in the early 2000s, Eighteen Visions and Candiria (among others) were toying with the style around 1995-1997, which is around the same time Devourment and Fleshgrind started. IMO the trends in instrument techniques, production, and purpose (simplifying extreme death metal) have more similarities than differences. Although the deathcore bands wouldn't adopt the blatant gore aesthetics until the early 2000s stuff. So yeah they're not "the same" but sooo close. Oh and Skeletonwitch is a thrash band, Huntress is a heavy metal band, and I believe simply sucking at what they do doesn't "disqualify" them from their genre. It seems like you're assuming not only the mindset and intent behind certain bands and genres, but also that the "feeling" generated by certain music is universal. (I didn't add quotes to any of the above since it's already such a long post. Hopefully you all know what I'm talking about, even though some of the posts I'm referencing are days old.)

[RelentlessOblivion]

Deathcore and slam death, different sides of the same coin, yeah that's pretty clear. For the record I agree. Sucking at what you do doesn't mean you don't fit into the genre you're trying to play but it does open you up for ridicule.

[FatherAlabaster]

@KSMASH: well said.

[Iceni]

Deathcore and slam death, different sides of the same coin, yeah that's pretty clear. For the record I agree. Sucking at what you do doesn't mean you don't fit into the genre you're trying to play but it does open you up for ridicule.

If it did there would be far fewer melodic power metal bands in the world.

[deathstorm]

Want a know what was very conversial. People comparing. Grudge bands to metal bands. I remember. Chris Cornell cheer for us we play heavy metal at the MTV awards show back in 92 sound garden is grudge in his mind he thinks they. Are metal

[Iceni]

Thrash metal bores me immensely. I've never liked the vocals, the drumming often gets boring and sometimes even the riffs really aren't that great. Also, another thing; I actually like new metal from after the year 2000 and I tend to like it more than older metal, what little I've heard.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Controversial Metal Opinions

I love Emperor's album "IX Equilibrium" and the Ihsahn solo material. Body Count is awesome. Cop Killer!!! Better you than me! And BAN... I think the formative works of both slam death and deathcore were around the same time (late 90s) and - to me - seem like parallel developments of extremely similar aesthetics. Typical slam is simplifying brutal death into pit-ready grooves, in deathcore's case they took mosh-core and added more death metal elements. Using different means to get to the same end, and in this case I think the means are more similar than most people think. And before people take the Wikipedia route and try to tell me deathcore came around in the early 2000s, Eighteen Visions and Candiria (among others) were toying with the style around 1995-1997, which is around the same time Devourment and Fleshgrind started. IMO the trends in instrument techniques, production, and purpose (simplifying extreme death metal) have more similarities than differences. Although the deathcore bands wouldn't adopt the blatant gore aesthetics until the early 2000s stuff. So yeah they're not "the same" but sooo close. Oh and Skeletonwitch is a thrash band, Huntress is a heavy metal band, and I believe simply sucking at what they do doesn't "disqualify" them from their genre. It seems like you're assuming not only the mindset and intent behind certain bands and genres, but also that the "feeling" generated by certain music is universal. (I didn't add quotes to any of the above since it's already such a long post. Hopefully you all know what I'm talking about, even though some of the posts I'm referencing are days old.)

IX Equilibrium is awesome, I just think most people hate on it for the same reason that they hate on any later album from various extreme metal bands: they sound different. Many people wouldn't call it "black metal" (as though that would exclude it from being good in the first place) because it's technical, well produced, and uses more than just power chords and standard structures. Bullshit, look at black metal from 10 years prior to when it existed in Norway (that's right, it WASN'T created there) and also what it was doing elsewhere, and it's plain to see that there was experimentation and evolution happening, but once it evolves past some imaginary line it's no good anymore? Anyway, it's an awesome album, as is Prometheus IMO. As far as the deathcore/slam discussion, I keep hearing a lot about aesthetics, how their aesthetic development was similar, but that's what I've been saying as well. Aesthetic similarities are just that, they're on the surface, when music runs much deeper than that. Granted, I haven't heard a ton of depth from artists of either genre and don't particularly care for either, but it sounds to me like they're using many of the same techniques to make different things. You need a belt sander to make both a canoe and a dog house, that doesn't make the result the same because you used the same tool. I know what you're getting at, but I don't see music as defined by techniques, using jazz chords and rhythms doesn't mean Voivod feels any less like a heavy metal band, and so on. Thusly, my point about Skeletonwitch and Huntress is that just because they use some of the same techniques that thrash and heavy metal bands would use, that doesn't make them those things, no more than playing a song slowly makes it a doom song. Look at Deafhaven, they use some black metal techniques, but what they create with them is not black metal. It has nothing to do with how skillfully they may or may not use those techniques, nor how good or how poor their songwriting is, it's what they are doing with them. We're making black/thrash metal with a bunch of death metal and grindcore riffs, it's about what they're accomplishing, not what they are in and of themselves. Bands like Dark Funeral are missing the point of black metal entirely, playing blast beats and tremolo riffs and screaming about Satan can be a consequence of black metal in some cases, but is certainly not the point. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[KSMASH]

IX Equilibrium is awesome, I just think most people hate on it for the same reason that they hate on any later album from various extreme metal bands: they sound different. Many people wouldn't call it "black metal" (as though that would exclude it from being good in the first place) because it's technical, well produced, and uses more than just power chords and standard structures. Bullshit, look at black metal from 10 years prior to when it existed in Norway (that's right, it WASN'T created there) and also what it was doing elsewhere, and it's plain to see that there was experimentation and evolution happening, but once it evolves past some imaginary line it's no good anymore? Anyway, it's an awesome album, as is Prometheus IMO. As far as the deathcore/slam discussion, I keep hearing a lot about aesthetics, how their aesthetic development was similar, but that's what I've been saying as well. Aesthetic similarities are just that, they're on the surface, when music runs much deeper than that. Granted, I haven't heard a ton of depth from artists of either genre and don't particularly care for either, but it sounds to me like they're using many of the same techniques to make different things. You need a belt sander to make both a canoe and a dog house, that doesn't make the result the same because you used the same tool. I know what you're getting at, but I don't see music as defined by techniques, using jazz chords and rhythms doesn't mean Voivod feels any less like a heavy metal band, and so on. Thusly, my point about Skeletonwitch and Huntress is that just because they use some of the same techniques that thrash and heavy metal bands would use, that doesn't make them those things, no more than playing a song slowly makes it a doom song. Look at Deafhaven, they use some black metal techniques, but what they create with them is not black metal. It has nothing to do with how skillfully they may or may not use those techniques, nor how good or how poor their songwriting is, it's what they are doing with them. We're making black/thrash metal with a bunch of death metal and grindcore riffs, it's about what they're accomplishing, not what they are in and of themselves. Bands like Dark Funeral are missing the point of black metal entirely, playing blast beats and tremolo riffs and screaming about Satan can be a consequence of black metal in some cases, but is certainly not the point. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

I do agree with you on some of these points, but again I think you are excluding certain artists from genres based on the same principles that you're using to include others. If you're using "purpose" and "intent" as the measuring stick, those ideas are subjective and widely debated. If you use guitar techniques, tone, atmosphere, those are at least a little more objective and makes it easier for more people to agree on their usage for categorization (which is the purpose of genres and sub-genres right?). I mean I get that blast beats don't equate to grindcore, but try to show people a slow grind band, or even a grindCORE (people seem to forget the core part) band with a lot of breakdowns and good production, grind enthusiasts will call it deathcore. I'm not saying that's right, and if you listen closely it becomes more clear that they're doing all the same stuff just slightly different, all I'm saying is that there's definitely a reason that surface level stuff is typically used to determine genres. It just gets a little crazy otherwise. That being said, I'm sure I've talked at great lengths about my distaste for excessive sub-genre labeling. I think our current system is mostly effective because people usually know what you're talking about when you use certain key words, but I personally think the lines can be pretty blurry. If nothing else, it makes for a fun debate :] cheers.

[FatherAlabaster]

^Ya beat me to it, dude.

[Iceni]

Another thing: despite BAN's best efforts I'm still not much of a black metal fan. For the most part it tends to just come off to me as very boring and not memorable at all, even if it is well-executed.

[KSMASH]

^Ya beat me to it' date=' dude.[/quote'] Haha cheers dude, what's that phrase about great minds? :] Also I should say that one of the reasons I get way into the genre discussion, specifically concerning the discussion of "true" versus "untrue" variations, is because I used to think of things in those terms. "That's not true metal, or that's not true hardcore" were common reasons for me to just shut out certain bands. I think that mindset actually prevented me from checking out a lot of music I've come to thoroughly enjoy, and even if I don't love certain bands I think I've come to appreciate their musicianship through further study and listening. So I think my arguments can be a bit excessive and long-winded, but it's because I used to care more about superficial things and I don't think it's conducive to any better understanding of music in general.

[KSMASH]

Another thing: despite BAN's best efforts I'm still not much of a black metal fan. For the most part it tends to just come off to me as very boring and not memorable at all' date=' even if it is well-executed.[/quote'] I used to feel the same way, but there were a few key records that really changed my mind: Immortal - At the Heart of Winter 1349 - Hellfire Emperor - In the Nightside Eclipse Goatwhore - A Haunting Curse I should add that it's really not stuff to put on in the background, when I would listen to them while driving it was actually distracting - even on long trips! I think black metal in general is something you should sit down and listen to. Now I really like a lot of black metal, and I think it has influenced my guitar playing quite a bit.

[RelentlessOblivion]

It is very much an individual issue I think. What one does and does not care for is entirely on them. It should also be mentioned that tastes can change. Before I joined this place I listened almost exclusively to TraditionalNWOBHM and Thrash. Now I listen to Black, Death, Doom, Folk, Power and Progressive metal as well. It astounds me just how much excellent music I was missing out on just because I didn't think I'd like it.

[FatherAlabaster]

It is very much an individual issue I think. What one does and does not care for is entirely on them. It should also be mentioned that tastes can change. Before I joined this place I listened almost exclusively to TraditionalNWOBHM and Thrash. Now I listen to Black' date=' Death, Doom, Folk, Power and Progressive metal as well. It astounds me just how much excellent music I was missing out on just because I didn't think I'd like it.[/quote'] My take on it is that it's incumbent on me to learn to like stuff. The more I can like, the better I'm doing. It's a carryover from art school, where we had to critique lots of stuff, and the farther we could take our analysis the better. I learned to appreciate a lot of stuff on a different level, and "liking" it became irrelevant. That doesn't preclude the fact that a lot of shit still sucks. But once you put the energy into really analyzing a piece of art or music, and you get something meaningful out of it, and you choose to revisit that meaningful thing by looking at it or listening to it again, it's hard to separate that from just simply "liking" something. I think the missing component there is identification. It's why I got something great from a Sol LeWitt painting but would never want to "paint like" Sol LeWitt. And maybe that's why I can listen to overtly religious music from other genres, but have trouble with religion in metal - because I want to identify with what I'm listening to.

[RelentlessOblivion]

That's where I consider myself lucky. I don't feel compelled to go beyond liking or disliking art or music. If I enjoy looking at or listening to something I will continue doing so, if I don't find anything I like about a particular piece, album or artist I won't revisit them.

[deathstorm]

Hey alabaster. And. Murp. Your thoughts. On grunge. BAnds calling them selves metal. Like chits Cornell. Did by calling sound garden metal

[FatherAlabaster]

I don't care about that too much one way or the other. It certainly didn't bother me. He said that in what, 1992? Badmotorfinger is arguably the closest they came to metal... (some people might say Louder Than Love). They've always had metal elements, as do Alice In Chains and Melvins, and their music appeals to a lot of metal fans.

[FatherAlabaster]

That's where I consider myself lucky. I don't feel compelled to go beyond liking or disliking art or music. If I enjoy looking at or listening to something I will continue doing so' date=' if I don't find anything I like about a particular piece, album or artist I won't revisit them.[/quote'] I'm honestly glad that I grew out of that mindset. Not criticizing you, but that's a great way to stay stuck in a rut in terms of taste and creativity.