Controversial Metal Opinions

[FatherAlabaster]

Being practically a suburb of NY' date=' here in NJ the word "hardcore" is the most bastardized word in all of music. Any one that plays some kind of 4/4 timing breakdown is considered hardcore.[/quote'] I think it's cool that there's so much hardcore around the area; even if I don't personally like a lot of the Long Island brocore shit, there's plenty of hardcore-influenced stuff that I do like, and I feel like the metal scene here has opened up more to that kind of crossover than some other places I've been. I feel a little weird speaking of the NYC metal scene as being "more open-minded", but honestly I've seen a lot of development here over the past few years. Too bad NTNR isn't here right now to tell us how much hardcore has ruined music for everybody...

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Controversial Metal Opinions

Was black sabbath. The first doom metal. Yes or no. Yes anyone else

Doom metal was a retro genre that based its sound mostly on Black Sabbath, so yes, this is a fair assessment. It's not technically correct, just like calling Judas Priest NWOBHM isn't really right (they predated and greatly influenced the movement), but it's hard to argue that they were one of the biggest influences on it. I don't think Sabbath is the least bit overrated, their first 6 albums were not only massively influential, but chock full of awesome songs and spirited performances. I'm not the world's biggest Ozzy fan and would say Dio is the better vocalist (I don't like Ozzy's solo albums either), but musically Dio Sabbath can't hold a candle to their first 6 albums. As far as Judas Priest goes, I think you guys are listening to the wrong albums. Most of their 80's stuff is overrated, but Sad Wings of Destiny, Sin After Sin, and Stained Class are some of the best heavy metal albums of all time. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Controversial Metal Opinions

Being practically a suburb of NY, here in NJ the word "hardcore" is the most bastardized word in all of music. Any one that plays some kind of 4/4 timing breakdown is considered hardcore. Hatebreed is about as close to hardcore as you're going to get and there is obviously a lot of metal infusion there. You're very correct. Hardcore was a subgenre of Punk Rock and had 3 major areas. CA, DC and NYC...Black Flag being west coast, Bad Brains spearheading DC and Agnostic Front became the Godfather's of NYC. Agnostic Front, Cro-Mags and then Madball. Why the frack people call a band like Slipknot or something ridiculous like Coal Chamber "hardcore" is f'ng beyond me. Truth be told, "REAL" hardcore guys, especially the old timers in the NYHC will not take kindly to that...these guys are pretty serious. Calling Slipknot hardcore would be like calling Blink 182 punk.

Yeah, it's definitely an over applied label. Hardcore punk has many subgenres itself (d-beat/crust, anarchopunk, sludge, metalcore, beatdown hardcore, powerviolence, etc...), but Slipknot doesn't fit any of those. All I hear from them is Korn riffs, wigger hip-hop beats, and contrived attempts at "death metal", all of which are performed and mixed poorly in their sound IMO. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[KSMASH]

There's too many things I'm replying to here to quote, but here's some opinions: -Slipknot has a lot of characteristics of hardcore, a lot of their parts are very 2-step oriented, they use breakdowns in the song structure, also clean singing in the chorus parts... Overall I would say they're a metalcore band. -Blink 182 is a punk band. Pop-punk is a form of punk.

[odinnsman]

IMO Ozzy is underrated by people who say he's just a buffoon who got lucky by landing in good bands. I know he didn't write much of the music and lyrics on his classic albums, but he added a ton of character and atmosphere to them. Even with it's massive musical influence I can't imagine early Sabbath would have been as well loved without his cheeky personality all over the music. R Rhoads would have changed rock whoever he ended up with but Ozzy's persona made magic with his music. And I think just the person he is inspired a lot of the music that was made around him, after reading Iommi's book he said a lot of Geezers lyrics were started off after hearing ad libs sung by Ozzy. That's not to say he's not a complete buffoon with all his other flaws and has made some pretty bland music/celebrity life for the past 20 years.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Controversial Metal Opinions

-Blink 182 is a punk band. Pop-punk is a form of punk.

Maybe early on, but for the last 10 or so years (the last time I knew people that liked them, could be woefully inaccurate) you can't even really call them pop-punk, just straight up pop or emo/pop. Even old emo is a little too far removed from punk for it to be inclusive. On a related note, I saw a picture a couple of weeks ago showing Travis Barker dressed as King Ov Hell from Gorgoroth for Halloween. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[KSMASH]

Maybe early on, but for the last 10 or so years (the last time I knew people that liked them, could be woefully inaccurate) you can't even really call them pop-punk, just straight up pop or emo/pop. Even old emo is a little too far removed from punk for it to be inclusive. On a related note, I saw a picture a couple of weeks ago showing Travis Barker dressed as King Ov Hell from Gorgoroth for Halloween. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

That's just... awesome!!!

[deathstorm]

Nirvana. Alturnative. Or. Grudge.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Nirvana were Grunge. Pretty easy question to answer.

[PitViper]

There's too many things I'm replying to here to quote, but here's some opinions: -Slipknot has a lot of characteristics of hardcore, a lot of their parts are very 2-step oriented, they use breakdowns in the song structure, also clean singing in the chorus parts... Overall I would say they're a metalcore band. -Blink 182 is a punk band. Pop-punk is a form of punk.

Somewhat in agreement here...I feel Blink 182 had a quasi punk look but a strictly pop sound. The Ramones had a lot of pop punk going on...only they weren't gay.

[PitViper]

Here's another: I think Cradle Of Filth is probably the most overrated band and somewhat directly responsible for bastardizing black metal and turning it into something secular and dignified into commercial dog shit. If you want atmospheric black metal from the UK, throw your COF out the window and pick up Hecate Enthroned's The Slaughter Of Innocence, A Requiem For The Mighty.

[PitViper]

Last but not least I want to thank every 300lb chick who showed up to Ozzfest in a Marilyn Manson shirt and black lipstick for reminding me their was a lot of shitty bands I was paying too much to see back in the 90's. You fat chicks repulsed me right back to my Celtic Frost, Ibanez and cold beer. Thanks! \m/

[FatherAlabaster]

Here's another: I think Cradle Of Filth is probably the most overrated band and somewhat directly responsible for bastardizing black metal and turning it into something secular and dignified into commercial dog shit. If you want atmospheric black metal from the UK, throw your COF out the window and pick up Hecate Enthroned's The Slaughter Of Innocence, A Requiem For The Mighty.

I haven't listened to COF in years, but I think their releases up through Cruelty And The Beast (or maybe Midian) were musically sincere and interesting, regardless of the commercialism on display. CATB is the only one I still dig, but whatever. Hecate Enthroned never did it for me. Admittedly I only heard their first and maybe second thing, but it sounded like a bit of a ripoff to me. What would you say is their best album? I'd be happy to give it another spin.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Controversial Metal Opinions

I haven't listened to COF in years' date=' but I think their releases up through Cruelty And The Beast (or maybe Midian) were musically sincere and interesting, regardless of the commercialism on display. CATB is the only one I still dig, but whatever. Hecate Enthroned never did it for me. Admittedly I only heard their first and maybe second thing, but it sounded like a bit of a ripoff to me. What would you say is their best album? I'd be happy to give it another spin.[/quote'] CoF were never a true black metal band, so I don't know why people would worry about them "corrupting" or "bastardizing" a genre they were never truly a part of. Their demo material though their debut album is death/grind, with a growing gothic influence throughout their progression. Vempire started to introduce some black metal elements and abandon the death metal, but was still very gothic. Dusk and Cruelty were their most black metal, but were still black/gothic hybrids, so I don't know why people would criticize them becoming more gothic after those albums when that has been a large element in their sound literally the entire time they've been a band. I dig all of their stuff to one degree or another, but I like some gothic metal. As far as Hecate Enthroned goes, it makes sense that they would sound like CoF, because they have shared members. Hecate Enthroned has always been less gothic and more black/death, but the similarities are there. I like them too, but never enjoyed them as much as CoF. Slaughtee of Innocence would probably be my favorite of theirs as well, I would give that one a shot if you want a good place to start. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[FatherAlabaster]

CoF were never a true black metal band, so I don't know why people would worry about them "corrupting" or "bastardizing" a genre they were never truly a part of. Their demo material though their debut album is death/grind, with a growing gothic influence throughout their progression. Vempire started to introduce some black metal elements and abandon the death metal, but was still very gothic. Dusk and Cruelty were their most black metal, but were still black/gothic hybrids, so I don't know why people would criticize them becoming more gothic after those albums when that has been a large element in their sound literally the entire time they've been a band. I dig all of their stuff to one degree or another, but I like some gothic metal. As far as Hecate Enthroned goes, it makes sense that they would sound like CoF, because they have shared members. Hecate Enthroned has always been less gothic and more black/death, but the similarities are there. I like them too, but never enjoyed them as much as CoF. Slaughtee of Innocence would probably be my favorite of theirs as well, I would give that one a shot if you want a good place to start. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

COF's strong points to me were their melodies and sprawling song structures. Of course Dani's unique delivery had a lot to do with their overall feel. I used to be a pretty big fan, but they lost me with the album after Midian and a really shitty live show. I dug out my old CDs a few months ago, enjoyed CATB a bit, and my reaction to Dusk and Midian was "Fuck, what was I thinking?" It's just too goofy for me at the moment. Suspension of disbelief isn't working! As I've mentioned before, I'm not really listening to any black metal at the moment either. I'm sure I'll pick it all back up again at some point. I always go back to music I used to love. I regret selling a bunch of my death metal when I stopped listening to it as a teenager; I never built up a real collection after that, just got my hands on a few favorites.

[PitViper]

I may have been too harsh on COF's bastardizing but I do think they kind of ran with black metal's look for a bit. At the time they started to "pop" was kind of when a lot of us were finding out about Black Metal..."real" Black Metal, for the 1st time. For me, once I put 2 and 2 together it was very clear who was real and who was not..as I'm sure it is to most of us here. I guess I accuse COF of kind of commercializing a part of something that I feel strongly about. Musically, I can't take anything away from them. I don't know anyone that is a fan of a "big" sound that can't appreciate the guitar work and overall layout of the songs. I think after CATB it just got so predictable and boring..it almost seemed immature to me. Hecate Enthroned's Requiem, IMHO is absolutely flawless.

[PitViper]

Another: Iron Maiden's X-Factor is one of the most underrated albums of all time.

[deathstorm]

I have that. Cd is it good I just think hardcore maiden fans hated bailey on vocals

[PitViper]

I have that. Cd is it good I just think hardcore maiden fans hated bailey on vocals

I think that album, line up and era would have been better received if they called it "The Iron Maiden Side Project Until Bruce Comes Back"..lol...people almost don't count it among the catalog. I thought it's by far their darkest almost depressing lyrics and the music definitely follows that vibe. Even the trademark, galloping triplets, upbeat Maiden sound somehow sounds cold and empty--but that's the intent. I understand Steve Harris was going through his divorce while writing that album and it really shows. I was lucky enough to meet them on that tour at a meet and greet and then they played a club here in NJ that no longer exists. Birch Hill Nite Club in Old Bridge NJ--They opened with Man On The Edge, it went into Wrathchild and then Heaven Can Wait. After that..I don't remember. Maiden in a club was absolute MAYHEM and Fear Factory opened! Crazy night. Back on topic though, I do feel X-Factor is a brilliant album, Blaze never gets his due respect and while Virtual was the weaker of the 2, it did have a few decent songs on it. There is also a Japanese B-Side for X-Factor called "I Live My Way"...f'ng awesome.

[deathstorm]

I been to a Show at birch hill

[PitViper]

I been to a Show at birch hill

Such a great place..I have seen everyone to ManOwar to S.O.D., Cannibal Corpse, GWAR...always a great time. Huge part of my late teens and 20's.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Controversial Metal Opinions

I may have been too harsh on COF's bastardizing but I do think they kind of ran with black metal's look for a bit. At the time they started to "pop" was kind of when a lot of us were finding out about Black Metal..."real" Black Metal, for the 1st time. For me, once I put 2 and 2 together it was very clear who was real and who was not..as I'm sure it is to most of us here. I guess I accuse COF of kind of commercializing a part of something that I feel strongly about. Musically, I can't take anything away from them. I don't know anyone that is a fan of a "big" sound that can't appreciate the guitar work and overall layout of the songs. I think after CATB it just got so predictable and boring..it almost seemed immature to me. Hecate Enthroned's Requiem, IMHO is absolutely flawless.

I've only ever seen one picture of Dani Filth in actual corpse paint and an Emperor tshirt, otherwise their look has always been quite different from the black metal of the time. As I said in my last post, they've always been more of a black metal influenced band than a black metal band, so I can't really give them shit for guiding music in a bad direction that they were never truly a part of. Regardless though, I think their early albums were great, just not something I would call black metal by and large. In all honesty, I like Thornography the best out of their post Cruelty albums, it seemed the most genuine and comfortable for them. They aren't the same band they used to be, and that album dropped the pretense they were trying to stage about still being an "extreme" band, as most of Midian, Bitter Suites, and Damnation were fairly contrived. I don't think they're the greatest band ever, but they also don't deserve most of the shit that is flung at them. For better or worse, they have been doing their own thing since day one, so I can't really say that they've followed any trends or anything, they just aren't as exciting or interesting as they used to be. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[deathstorm]

Such a great place..I have seen everyone to ManOwar to S.O.D.' date=' Cannibal Corpse, GWAR...always a great time. Huge part of my late teens and 20's.[/quote'] I saw Ill niño. Kittie. Chirmaira. There. Feast I met soulflys. Mark Rizzo. Cool dude

[odinnsman]

I thought a lot of tracks on the last 2 Sabbath albums with ozzy and Dio seemed to have riffs taken from older Zakk Wylde songs. Seems the inspired has become the inspiration. One example here.

[FatherAlabaster]

I thought a lot of tracks on the last 2 Sabbath albums with ozzy and Dio seemed to have riffs taken from older Zakk Wylde songs. Seems the inspired has become the inspiration. One example here.

I hear what you're talking about, but I think the relationship here is more that they're both using fairly generic rock riffs with similar chord changes. Nothing original going on in either of them... the word "inspired" might be a little misplaced.