Why is born again hated?

[agamerwholovesmetal]

maybe hated is a strong word but it definitely isn't a beloved album in their discography. and I don't know why, Ian Gillen kills it on this album and even though it technically wasn't supposed to be a black sabbath album 3/4 of the original line up is there and it makes far more sense to label this as a black sabbath record than seventh star. If you don't like this album please tell me why I would like to know.

[Sardonicist]

Black Sabbath without Ozzy, I don't like any of it. 

With a possible exception, I may give Dehumanizer a few more listens. 

It is not just the absence of Ozzy, to me the music became boring after Ozzy's departure.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

I've always liked the one song Zero the Hero with its groovy riff right from the beginning. Hot Line is decent but nothing special, sounds like a leftover from Never Say Die or maybe Perfect Strangers. And that's it, I can't get into any of the other songs on the album, not a one, no matter how many times I've tried. Overall I think the record sucks right down to the weird cover. But Sabbath were never known for their great album covers. Nothing personal against Ian Gillan or Tony Iommi or Geezer or Bill, they just weren't able to write any good songs for this one. Don't care about individual performances if there aren't any good songs. That Digital Bitch song is so bad it's embarrassing, these dudes are supposed to be professonals. And I don't know who produced it but imo the guitar tone they got for Tony was absolutely atrocious. I've known people over the years who've tried to tell me Disturbing the Priest or Trashed are supposedly great songs, but not for me they're not, they're skippers. Maybe that's why this was the last Sabbath album I ever bought 40 years ago. It has a loyal cult following though, go on the Youtube video comments and they're jizzing all over each other talking about how wonderful it is. So you're not alone. But it does seem to be one of those love it or hate it albums.

[Spiderlix]

I saw some people arguing that they didn't like the audio quality.But i really liked it.

[AlSymerz]

I like some of the album, but I have been a fan of Gillan since the early days of Purple so it's probably not all that surprising.

[RelentlessOblivion]

GG hit the nail on the head, I personally just don’t find it interesting, then again, I basically ignore anything Black Sabbath dead after Sabotage

[Dead1]

The sound grates and the song writing is nothing to write home about.  Zero the Hero is a decent tune though.

[JonoBlade]

I think Tony mentioned that they have the master tapes for this so it could be remixed. The production has been universally accepted as bad ever since it was released, which overshadowed its actual content.

I'll spin again at lunchtime. It is musically not great but not that offensive. Better than Seventh Star. However, the lyrics are pretty terrible. Ian Gillan always wrote off the cuff shit lyrics with no thought to them at all. To get a writing credit for crap lyrics never seemed fair to me. Truly great lyrics like a few of the Bon Scott ones deserve the co-writer credit, but so many don't.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

6 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

...the lyrics are pretty terrible. Ian Gillan always wrote off the cuff shit lyrics with no thought to them at all. To get a writing credit for crap lyrics never seemed fair to me. Truly great lyrics like a few of the Bon Scott ones deserve the co-writer credit, but so many don't.

Yes let's dig Bon up and give his drunk bogan ass an award for his truly great, deeply thoughtful and inspired lyrics 🙄

 

Well I'm ever upper class high society
God's gift to ballroom notoriety
And I always fill my ballroom
The event is never small
The social pages say I've got
The biggest balls of all

I've got big balls
They're such big balls
And they're dirty big balls
And he's got big balls
And she's got big balls
(But we've got the biggest balls of them all)

And my balls are always bouncing
My ballroom always full
And everybody comes and comes again
If your name is on the guest list
No one can take you higher
Everybody says I've got
Great balls of fire

I've got big balls....

Some balls are held for charity
And some for fancy dress
But when they're held for pleasure
They're the balls that I like best
My balls are always bouncing
To the left and to the right
It's my belief that my big balls
Should be held every night

__________________________________________

Out on the town, looking for a woman
Gonna give me good love
Anybody wanna hang out with me
I'm really burning up

She was standing alone over by the jukebox
Like she's something to sell
I said, "Baby, what's the going price?"
She told me to go to hell

Shot down in flames
Ain't it a shame
To be shot down in flames?

Singles bar, got my eye on a honey
Hanging out everywhere
She might be straight, she might want my money
I really don't care, no

I said, "Baby, you're driving me crazy"
Laid it out on the line
When a guy with a chip on his shoulder said
"Toss off, buddy, she's mine", aw!

Shot down in flames
Ain't it a shame
To be shot down in flames?

______________________________________________

 

See me ride out of the sunset on your color TV screen
Out for all that I can get, if you know what I mean
Women to the left of me, women to the right
Ain't got no gun, got no knife
Don't you start no fight

Cos I'm
T.N.T. - I'm dynamite
T.N.T. - And I'll win the fight
T.N.T. - I'm a power-load
T.N.T. - Watch me explode

I'm dirty, mean and mighty unclean I'm a wanted man
Public enemy number one, understand
So lock up your daughter, and lock up your wife
Lock up your back door and run for your life
The man is back in town, so don't you mess me 'round

Cos I'm......
 

[Dead1]

12 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

I think Tony mentioned that they have the master tapes for this so it could be remixed. The production has been universally accepted as bad ever since it was released, which overshadowed its actual content.

 

I find production is a real killer for me.  Content can't override production. 

[JonoBlade]

17 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Yes let's dig Bon up and give his drunk bogan ass an award for his truly great, deeply thoughtful and inspired lyrics 🙄

I didn't say every Bon Scott penned lyric was a winner. But, come on, Big Balls is genius.

I liked the way he took you on a journey. The generic "hot chick in a bar" tired trope songs not so great.....but Whole Lotta Rosie? 

Am also especially fond of Jailbreak* and a lot of Powerage is quite introspective.

However, Night Prowler....one of my favourite songs, but those lyrics are dodgy as fuck. Creepier than Chris Barnes ever managed, and inspired an actual serial killer. There can be no greater accolade.

*this song was used as a musical interlude/dance scene in my 1989 high school drama production. The script was written by a teacher who had no interest in AC/DC but we campaigned for its inclusion. By utter coincidence the crime described in the lyrics was exactly the same as the character in the play committed, who was in a chain gang about to break out of prison. The heroine was called Liberty. 

"Big man lying on the ground, with a hole in his body where his life had been.....but it was all in the name of Liberty..."

Spooky.

11 hours ago, Dead1 said:

I find production is a real killer for me.  Content can't override production. 

There is a definite line. Sometimes an album's music might be decent but I'm thinking "I just can't handle that drum sound, and there's other things I could be listening to"

I listened to half of Born Again at lunchtime yesterday. The record sounds like it has peanut butter smothered over it and the needle is fighting to cut through. I watched it spin around and it defo doesn't. Just awful and woolly. However, one has to be careful what one wishes for with a remix. Mike Exeter is Tony's engineer and he co-produced Priest's Redeemer of Souls which sounds really cheap.

[agamerwholovesmetal]

I will admit the production isn't great on the record but a crap production never stopped me from liking a record. 

1 hour ago, JonoBlade said:

However, Night Prowler....one of my favourite songs, but those lyrics are dodgy as fuck. Creepier than Chris Barnes ever managed, and inspired an actual serial killer. There can be no greater accolade.

first. yes, night prowler is fantastic easily the most underrated song from highway to hell along with girls got rhythm. second is sorry WHAT!? when did that serial killer thing happen, I have never heard of this.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

1 hour ago, JonoBlade said:

I didn't say every Bon Scott penned lyric was a winner. But, come on, Big Balls is genius.

I liked the way he took you on a journey. The generic "hot chick in a bar" tired trope songs not so great.....but Whole Lotta Rosie? 

Am also especially fond of Jailbreak* and a lot of Powerage is quite introspective.

However, Night Prowler....one of my favourite songs, but those lyrics are dodgy as fuck. Creepier than Chris Barnes ever managed, and inspired an actual serial killer. There can be no greater accolade.

*this song was used as a musical interlude/dance scene in my 1989 high school drama production. The script was written by a teacher who had no interest in AC/DC but we campaigned for its inclusion. By utter coincidence the crime described in the lyrics was exactly the same as the character in the play committed, who was in a chain gang about to break out of prison. The heroine was called Liberty. 

"Big man lying on the ground, with a hole in his body where his life had been.....but it was all in the name of Liberty..."

Spooky.

This was the first AC/DC song I ever heard. 1977, late at night lying in bed on a transistor radio through a single earbud in mono (guess they hadn't figured out people have two ears yet in the 70's) because 15 year old me was suposed to be sleeping. And I've always liked the song musically, but the lyrics aren't anything to be proud of. 15 year old Jon-O Blade or any of his young Kiwi friends could have written this in 10 minutes back in 1989 on a smoko from rehearsing their fabulous musical dance number.

 

Wanna tell you story
About woman I know
When it comes to lovin'
She steals the show
She ain't exactly pretty
Ain't exactly small
Fourt'two thirt'ninefiftysix
You could say she's got it all

Never had a woman
Never had a woman like you
Doin' all the things
Doin' all the things you do
Ain't no fairy story
Ain't no skin and bones
But you give it all you got
Weighin' in at nineteen stone
You're a whole lotta woman
A whole lotta woman
Whole lotta Rosie
Whole lotta Rosie
Whole lotta Rosie
And you're a whole lotta woman

Honey you can do it
Do it to me all night long
Only one who turn me
Only one who turn me on
All through the night time
Right around the clock
To my surprise
Rosie never stops
She was a whole lotta woman
Whole lotta woman
Whole lotta Rosie
Whole lotta Rosie
Whole lotta Rosie
A whole lotta woman....

 

But let's take a look at Night Prowler. I think it's the slow riff and Bon's vocal delivery that are great more than the lyrics themselves. Although they are better than you Walk All oVer You or Touch Too Much or Girl's Got Rythym or something banal like that. This is why I'm not a lyrics guy. I'm too busy admiring the tone of Malcolm's Gretch.

Somewhere a clock strikes midnight
And there's a full moon in the sky
You hear a dog bark in the distance
You hear someone's baby cry
A rat runs down the alley
And a chill runs down your spine
And someone walks across your grave
And you wish the sun would shine
'Cause no one's gonna warn you
And no one's gonna yell, "Attack!"
And you don't feel the steel
Till it's hanging out your back

I'm your night prowler, asleep in the day
Night prowler, get out of my way
Yeah, I'm the night prowler, watch out tonight
Yes, I'm the night prowler, when you turn out the light

Too scared to turn your light out
'Cause there's something on your mind
Was that a noise outside the window?
What's that shadow on the blind?
As you lie there naked
Like a body in a tomb
Suspended animation
As I slip into your room

I'm your night prowler, asleep in the day
Yeah, I'm the night prowler, get out of my way
Look out for the night prowler, watch out tonight
Yes, I'm the night prowler, when you turn out the light

I'm your night prowler, asleep in the day
Yes, I'm the night prowler, get out of my way
Look out for the night prowler, watch out tonight
Yes, I'm the night prowler, when you turn out the light

I'm your night prowler (break down your door)
I'm your night prowler (crawlin' 'cross your floor)
I'm the night prowler (make a mess of you) Yes, I will
Night prowler
And I'm tellin' this to you
There ain't nothin'
There ain't nothin'
Nothin' you can do

"Shazbot, nanu nanu"

[AlSymerz]

The lyrics didn't do blow up Rosie justice. The stage Rosie was all tits and it always seemed like the tits blew up first.

 

[JonoBlade]

15 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I'm your night prowler (break down your door)
I'm your night prowler (crawlin' 'cross your floor)
I'm the night prowler (make a mess of you) Yes, I will
Night prowler
And I'm tellin' this to you
There ain't nothin'
There ain't nothin'
Nothin' you can do

"Shazbot, nanu nanu"

As I said. Dodgy as fuck. Breaking and entering, rape and presumably murder.

Maybe not the most upbeat way for Bon to go out, since he had specialised in fun fat chicks, big balls and simple musings on the life of a rock n roll singer. However, the "Shazbot, nanu nanu" line is quite profound given it was his swansong.

18 hours ago, agamerwholovesmetal said:

I will admit the production isn't great on the record but a crap production never stopped me from liking a record. 

first. yes, night prowler is fantastic easily the most underrated song from highway to hell along with girls got rhythm. second is sorry WHAT!? when did that serial killer thing happen, I have never heard of this.

Night Prowler (song) - Wikipedia

Highway to Hell used to be my stock answer for "what is your favourite album" when I was 15. Over the years I have gone off it a bit. Still some great tunes and excellent production, but now I prefer Dirty Deeds (Australian release), Let There Be Rock and Powerage over it.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

4 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Highway to Hell used to be my stock answer for "what is your favourite album" when I was 15. Over the years I have gone off it a bit. Still some great tunes and excellent production, but now I prefer Dirty Deeds (Australian release), Let There Be Rock and Powerage over it.

I'd still cite Highway as my clear favorite AC/DC album, but I'm not a serious fan like some of you guys, I'm pretty casual. I liked them in an era when I knew of so few hard rocking guitar bands that I cherished every band and album of that nature I could find. Of course when heavy metal came along in the early 80's and then thrash they got left behind for awhile because that heavier stuff was what I had really been looking for all along. The fact that For Those About to Suck was such a shitty album didn't help matters any. I still haven't ever heard any of the 'modern' Johnson albums that came after Flick of the Switch except some of the radio hits. Years later I came back around to appreciating them again for what they do, but I don't really listen very often except in situations like this when they come up in conversation.

[FatherAlabaster]

5 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

As I said. Dodgy as fuck. Breaking and entering, rape and presumably murder.

Maybe it's about the terror induced by sleep paralysis? Trying to reclaim some power by putting the feared thing in the first person when in fact it's an examination of the sufferer's mindset? Shazbot, nanu nanu.

[JonoBlade]

3 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I'd still cite Highway as my clear favorite AC/DC album, but I'm not a serious fan like some of you guys, I'm pretty casual. I liked them in an era when I knew of so few hard rocking guitar bands that I cherished every band and album of that nature I could find. Of course when heavy metal came along in the early 80's and then thrash they got left behind for awhile because that heavier stuff was what I had really been looking for all along. The fact that For Those About to Suck was such a shitty album didn't help matters any. I still haven't ever heard any of the 'modern' Johnson albums that came after Flick of the Switch except some of the radio hits. Years later I came back around to appreciating them again for what they do, but I don't really listen very often except in situations like this when they come up in conversation.

I listened to it at lunchtime for old times' sake. I have seen H2H cited as the perfect recorded drum sound, whereas BiB has the perfect guitar recorded tone; for that hard rockin' style anyway.

Down the rabbit hole of wikipedia, did you know:

-Eddie Kramer (Hendrix, or Among the Living for something closer to home base) was first slated to produce H2H but the Young boys thought he was "a prat." They recorded a bunch of demos in secret when they told Kramer they were taking a day off and sent them to Mutt.

-Mutt Lange left Shania Twain for her best friend, whose husband then married Shania Twain.

-In 2014, Lange protected 53,000 hectares (130,000 acres) of his land as Queen Elizabeth II National Trust covenant; this is the largest private conservation covenant in New Zealand.

2 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Maybe it's about the terror induced by sleep paralysis? Trying to reclaim some power by putting the feared thing in the first person when in fact it's an examination of the sufferer's mindset? Shazbot, nanu nanu.

I'm sure that is it.

When I heard it today, it sure did bring back memories....not of being a Night Prowler...but those words are burned into me for all time. Its guitar solo was one of my favourites, but it does seem fairly basic now. It is the background playing that makes it.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

Always thought Night Prowler was AC/DC's superior answer to this classic from 3 years earier. Even though Mercyful Fate did an even better version of this song.

 

 

[FatherAlabaster]

2 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

I'm sure that is it.

It's the only explanation that's consistent with his œuvre.

[JonoBlade]

14 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Always thought Night Prowler was AC/DC's superior answer to this classic from 3 years earier. Even though Mercyful Fate did an even better version of this song.

I prefer Night Prowler too, and I like MF and all but I don't see how that cover is any better than the original. It seemed a bit disjointed and the original is tight. If silly.

A Type O Negative cover of The Ripper. That would have been worth it. As a Type-Oed version of anything was worthwhile.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

5 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

I prefer Night Prowler too, and I like MF and all but I don't see how that cover is any better than the original. It seemed a bit disjointed and the original is tight. If silly.

A Type O Negative cover of The Ripper. That would have been worth it. As a Type-Oed version of anything was worthwhile.

I don't see the song The Ripper as being a good fit for Type O. But I could've totally seen Pete doing a version of Night Prowler.