The Best Thrash Metal Albums (According to AOTY)

[GoatmasterGeneral]

19 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

This thread has it all, penises, clams and the best music genre in the world!

 

I do like my war metal but even I wouldn't consider it the best music genre in the world. That would naturally be black/death. 

[AlSymerz]

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Is Adelaide not in close proximity to the ocean? Are there no edible sea creatures to be found in the St Vincent Gulf, or Spencer Gulf or Long Bay?

Adelaide/South Australia has some of the best fishing and seafood in the country, probably only beaten by Northern Territory.

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I do like my war metal but even I wouldn't consider it the best music genre in the world. That would naturally be black/death. 

You spelt Thrash wrong again but it's okay we all learn by our mistakes.

[Dead1]

43 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

But to see grown-ass 40+ and even 50+ year old men going mental for Iron Fucking Maiden here in the 21st century when there are so many thousands of better metal bands out there one could choose to listen to, it leaves me scratching my head. I really honestly can't fathom the depth & breadth of their immense stature and popularity and incredible longevity in the metal world that seems to me to be way out of proportion to the middling quality of their tiresome music. 4 pretty good albums 40 years ago should mean that they now have a small cult following of older guys who enjoy the occasional nostalgic hit from spinning those old records every now and then. As in the way it is for most of their other NWOBHM peers from the early 80's. There were much better bands from that era, imho of course, so tell me why are Maiden the exalted ones? What is it about them that people find so appealing and endearing that I'm missing?

 

They wrote kick arse memorable tunes with their own unique sound and had some excellent players.  

Most of NWOBHM was kind of meh - enjoyable in the same way a third tier thrash or death metal band (or black metal band in your case).

 

Of the rest of NWOBHM big players:

Motörhead - We all still we love Lemmy & Co to this day and the live version of the track Motörhead from No Sleep Til Hammersmith is being played at my funeral.  However in their early day Iron Maiden had a versatility that Motörhead never really managed.

Saxon were awesome but lacked the same kind of epic thunder that Iron Maiden had.  And during the Di'Anno era Iron Maiden had more punk intensity.  

Def Leppard's early 1980s stuff was unremarkable.  They did better as a glam rock band.

Raven and Tygers of Pan Tang had some great moments but lacked consistency and memorability compared to Iron Maiden

Diamond Head had one album that was IMO also lacking in punch (Metallica did it better ),

Angel Witch were pretty derivative and boring save one song.

Venom - too extreme and started losing plot by 1983's At War With Satan (and yes I am a fan of both Venom and that album but objectively speaking).

Witchfinder General - kinda boring.

Satan - I truly believe that Steven Ramsey is a phenomenal riff writer but  Brian Ross' vocals are somewhat off putting (I can't even listen to their modern output.

Tank - at times a ton of fun (especially the debut album)  but there was always an amateurishness about them (yes I know Algy Ward was a punk) and they were always inconsistent.  They too got unstuck by mid-1980s.  Eg 1984s Honour and Blood has some truly boring bits and is missing the excitement of their early stuff.

Judas Priest - See this is a band I don't get.  They had some good songs in early 1980s (Screaming for Vengeance being the pick of the litter) but their albums were always chock full of filler.  And British Steel is soooo weak sounding.

IMO the only band that wrote NWOBHM even close to Iron Maiden circa 1980-1984 was Dio era Black Sabbath! 

 

We could discuss stuff like Jaguar, Samson, Grim Reaper, Tokyo Blade etc but seriously how many of those bands wrote anything worth remembering?  I enjoy them for what they are but they weren't exactly slaying it.

 

Also if we look to other scenes in 1980-84 there were some awesome bands too be it Accept or Twisted Sister or the good but inconsistent Riot.  Others like Manilla Road were quite tedious and lacking memorability.  

But did any compare to Iron Maiden in terms of memorability, uniqueness and often intensity?  IMO fuck no!

And then there's something I can only attest to via video footage, but Iron Maiden had a massive stage presence and intense live performance a lot of other bands couldn't beat (and even today most bands struggle to compare to Iron Maiden even in their 50s).  Back when live performance could make or break a band, that was really important.

Finally they had the aesthetics and especially Eddie and the logo.  I'd go as far as to say Iron Maiden invented modern metal aesthetics.  

And Powerslave is a superb album IMO and one of my all time favourites. 

Yes, I'm a Maiden fanboy.

 

(Also yes I am excluding thrash metal ala Metallica, Exciter, Slayer etc.  That's a different story and we know how it ends).

[Thatguy]

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

They're entry level gateway metal for beginners

Never liked them. Never had any of their albums. I agree, baby steps music. No goat penises in sight.

[AlSymerz]

Considering some of the music I've listened to that you posted "baby steps" is a compliment!

 

[Dead1]

22 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

Never liked them. Never had any of their albums. I agree, baby steps music. No goat penises in sight.

But to be fair you also don't listen to this kind of music in general ie you're not cranking some obscure NWOBHM or speed metal.

[RelentlessOblivion]

3 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

They're entry level gateway metal for beginners. They were alright and served their purpose in 1981 when I was 20 years old and there were only maybe 50 metal bands in existence because heavy metal was only 2 years old. I thought Killers was a pretty good album once upon a time, and I even bought and enjoyed their first 4 albums. But my Maiden phase lasted all of 3 years, by '84's crappy Powerslave record I was completely over it. At 23 I'd checked out and had moved on up to bigger and better things.

But to see grown-ass 40+ and even 50+ year old men going mental for Iron Fucking Maiden here in the 21st century when there are so many thousands of better metal bands out there one could choose to listen to, it leaves me scratching my head. I really honestly can't fathom the depth & breadth of their immense stature and popularity and incredible longevity in the metal world that seems to me to be way out of proportion to the middling quality of their tiresome music. 4 pretty good albums 40 years ago should mean that they now have a small cult following of older guys who enjoy the occasional nostalgic hit from spinning those old records every now and then. As in the way it is for most of their other NWOBHM peers from the early 80's. There were much better bands from that era, imho of course, so tell me why are Maiden the exalted ones? What is it about them that people find so appealing and endearing that I'm missing?

 

 

Is Adelaide not in close proximity to the ocean? Are there no edible sea creatures to be found in the St Vincent Gulf, or Spencer Gulf or Long Bay?

first, I think Powerslave, and somewhere in Time are pretty good as well, and fear of the dark, so I’d say seven good albums, but the following is definitely more of a cult then it is a fan base. I’ll agree on that. Second yes we have excellent seafood, I’m just the only person in my family who actually thinks it.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

6 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

You spelt thrash wrong again but it's okay we all learn by our mistakes.

Yeah you spelled "spelled" wrong but that's ok, you're 'Strayan and apparently they accept that kind of silliness down there so you can't be expected to know any better.

 

7 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

They wrote kick arse memorable tunes with their own unique sound and had some excellent players.  

Most of NWOBHM was kind of meh - enjoyable in the same way a third tier thrash or death metal band (or black metal band in your case).

I wholeheartedly agree. Most nwobhm has not stood the test of time as well as some other scenes or sub-genres I can think of. We all have our personal handfull of fave bands, but most of the rest are completely disposable/forgettable.

Of the rest of NWOBHM big players:

Motörhead - We all still we love Lemmy & Co to this day and the live version of the track Motörhead from No Sleep Til Hammersmith is being played at my funeral. However in their early day Iron Maiden had a versatility that Motörhead never really managed.

True, but versatility is overrated. Motörhead was ten times (maybe more than ten times) the metal band Iron Maiden could ever hope to be on their best day ever. It's not even a fair comparison. I really think Lemmy would be offended that you'd even compare them to the likes of Maiden. Isn't everyone aware by now and basically in agreement that the bands that make it the biggest are almost always the shyte ones? And no I'm not giving extra points to little Bruce for flying his own plane, because fuck that douche. Also little bit of trivia: Iron Horse is my beloved No Sleep Til Hammersmith song.

Saxon were awesome but lacked the same kind of epic thunder that Iron Maiden had.  And during the Di'Anno era Iron Maiden had more punk intensity.

Saxon were much better band than Maiden as well. They had fucking thunder dude, have you not heard their song Heavy Metal Thunder? This is my opinion of course, but I was there and saw them in the 80's so I get to be right. Saxon were more of a working man's metal band, down to earth and humble, they weren't so "epic" and full of themselves and their fans were not nearly as insufferable. And Biff didn't strain himself trying to hit those silly high notes like some other singers we all know which I very much appreciated. Also Lemmy poached their drummer at one point which I thought was pretty cool, kept Pete on for 3 years while Phil Taylor was out of the band, I can only imagine for rehab or something like that. Agreed about Di'Anno's punk intensity, but they kicked the son of a bitch out after two records!

Def Leppard's early 1980s stuff was unremarkable.  They did better as a glam rock band.

Yes, we all liked them in the early 80's because we were literally starved for new metal bands. But aside from a very small handfull of really good songs their first few albums were mostly unremarkable. 

Raven and Tygers of Pan Tang had some great moments but lacked consistency and memorability compared to Iron Maiden

Everyone seems to love Raven a lot more than I ever did. They were too goofy for me. Not sure I ever heard Tygers til a few decades after the 80's. I'd seen their albums in the stores, but spelling Tygers with a Y is gay and there was no way to hear shit without buying it bck then so you didn't buy without a strong feeling something was gonna be good.

Diamond Head had one album that was IMO also lacking in punch (Metallica did it better ),

Never bought that one tbh. Totally meh. Without that Metallica connection I doubt anyone would even remember them. 

Angel Witch were pretty derivative and boring save one song.

I hate them. Yes HATE. Also hate Budgie. Not sure if you know them. There aren't too many of these nwobhm bands that I literally hate, but those are two.

Venom - too extreme and started losing plot by 1983's At War With Satan (and yes I am a fan of both Venom and that album but objectively speaking).

I hate them, they sucked. Love pretty much every single band they ever influenced which is a shit ton of bands, but Venom themselves I never had any use for. I can't even listen to it.

Witchfinder General - kinda boring.

They got more noteriety for having tits on the album cover than they did for the music inside.

Satan - I truly believe that Steven Ramsey is a phenomenal riff writer but  Brian Ross' vocals are somewhat off putting (I can't even listen to their modern output.

Can't stand them, the high pitched vocals absoutely ruin it for me.

Tank - at times a ton of fun (especially the debut album)  but there was always an amateurishness about them (yes I know Algy Ward was a punk) and they were always inconsistent. They too got unstuck by mid-1980s.  Eg 1984s Honour and Blood has some truly boring bits and is missing the excitement of their early stuff.

I do have a couple of Tank records I liked a lot, but I admit they were never much more than 2nd rate Motörhead wannabees. Even their good albums had highs and lows, so agreed they were inconsistent.

Judas Priest - See this is a band I don't get.  They had some good songs in early 1980s (Screaming for Vengeance being the pick of the litter) but their albums were always chock full of filler.  And British Steel is soooo weak sounding.

Agreed, both that Vengeance was their best album and that all their albums were wildly inconsistent. Chock full of filler to the extent where you were lucky to even get two or three good tunes on each Priest album. Only exceptions being Vengeance and Hellbent which imo each had more like 5 good songs. (just went and counted them up and I nailed it, exactly 5 good songs on each) Never saw Bri'-ish Steel as any weaker sounding or more commercial than any of their other 80's stuff. For me it's always been Priest's 70's albums that sucked the worst. I can't even listen to any of them they sound so timid and weak and watered down. Deep Purple was heavier than Priest in the 70's. But I've gotta say for me Living After Midnight is one of their best songs, along with Steeler. But those were basically the only two good ones on that record. Hardly worth buying for only 2 or 3 good tunes. But even after having said all that I'd still take Priest over Maiden 8 days a week. Because even though Priest's lows were much lower, their highs were also much higher than Maiden's. IMHO of course.

IMO the only band that wrote NWOBHM even close to Iron Maiden Saxon circa 1980-1984 was Dio era Black Sabbath! 

Yes absolutely! I personally include Sabbath (and Priest) as part of the NWOBHM, because even while most of us are willing to call 70's Sabbath a metal band, honestly most of the tunes on their 70's albums weren't truly metal until maybe Sabbath Bloody Sabbath and Sabotage. Then on the next two unfairly maligned albums they went back to mostly playing hard rock, and with Ronnie they reinvented themselves as a metal band in 1980 just in time for the NWOBHM.

We could discuss stuff like Jaguar, Samson, Grim Reaper, Tokyo Blade etc... but seriously how many of those bands wrote anything worth remembering?  I enjoy them for what they are but they weren't exactly slaying it.

I agree totally, but that's exactly how I feel about Maiden as well. I put them right in that Jaguar, Grim Reaper, Tokyo Blade tier. They were ok for a minute, but they had that gallop riff and that's about all they really had. Once you'd heard that on a couple of albums what else was there left to look forward to? I enjoyed them for what they were in '81 - '83 but they weren't exactly slaying it either especially after Di'Anno left. I personally think I would have liked them much better if they'd have kept Paul D on staff, although I certainly understand from a business standpoint why they wanted to find a more dedicated frontman with whom they could achieve higher levels of success and monetary gain. Can't say I blame them for that decision. Artistically speaking I think the first 5 songs on Piece of Mind (if only they could have fit The Trooper on side 1 then I never would have had to flip the record over!) were their high point with Bruce, and it was all straight downhill (with a rocket) from there. You know it just occurred to me if they could have gotten that Grimmett dude from Grim Reaer and Chateaux instead of poaching little Bruce from Samson I think I might have liked them better. Of course that dude has since died so they'd alll be retired now or calling around tryig to scare up a suitable replacement.

Also if we look to other scenes in 1980-84 there were some awesome bands too be it Accept or Twisted Sister or the good but inconsistent Riot. Others like Manilla Road were quite tedious and lacking memorability.  

But did any compare to Iron Maiden in terms of memorability, uniqueness and often intensity?  IMO fuck no!

Yes, you feel that way about Maiden (and possibly MegaStaine) because you like them, they're your all-time favorite bands, they seem special to you. And that's fine brother, like whichever bands you want. But we all think that way about whichever bands we hold dear, that's why we became such big fans of these specific bands in the first place. We've played their albums countless times year after year, decade after decade, and we all find our favorite bands to be unique and their songs more awesome and memorable than any of the other guys' bands. Is the total subjectivity of all this stuff really lost on you? I feel this way about quite a few bands myself, I truly believe they write music that's awesome and memorable and more extaordinary than their peers. But no one has to explain to me that other people aren't neccessarily going to hear things the same way as I do.

Also I know I've been harping on this subjectivity thing, but I have to draw the line somewhere. In what possible universe was Twisted Sister an "awesome" band?!? The Marvel universe, or the Hogwarts universe maybe? Not the Tolkien universe, black metal took that one. TS were a bubblegum kiddie pop-metal band, nothing remotely awesome about that, they fucking Sucked with a capital S. I was in my 20's by then though so probably a bit older than their target demographic of 11 year olds.

Obviously I have my own ideas about the various metal 'scenes' in 1984 having lived through it all as an adult. Saw Accept with Udo in '85 and they were badass, great fucking show. But I almost never listen to them now, it was just the time and place. I think it was the dogshit follow-up to Restless 'n' Wild that killed my enjoyment of Accept (London Leatherboys, are you fucking kidding me?!?) even though I quite liked the album Metal Heart they did after that. I enjoyed Riot quite a bit back in the day as well, they were a NY band so I've seen them a bunch of times in the 80's. Never found them to be inconsistent back then. Only after Rhett left to go solo did they turn shitty, but I was done with them when Rhett left anyway. But that's subjective because clearly not everyone is quite so enamored with Riot as I am.

And then there's something I can only attest to via video footage, but Iron Maiden had a massive stage presence and intense live performance a lot of other bands couldn't beat (and even today most bands struggle to compare to Iron Maiden even in their 50s). Back when live performance could make or break a band, that was really important.

50's? Dude Iron Maiden are now well into their 60's, and Nicko is over 70. Pretty sure Bruce is the youngest (he'll turn 65 in two weeks) and I know he's 3 years older than me, or one year younger than Doc. I've never seen Maiden perform live obviously not being much of a fan, but as a metalhead who's gone to probably hundreds of live shows, I can tell you that things like stage presence and the intensity of a live performance are perceived subjectivly according to how much one likes that particular band. If you really like a band like Motörhead, or Overkill, or Celtic Frost, or Saxon or whichever band it may be, going to see them play live in person can be quite exciting. Thrilling even. First time I saw Motörhead in the 80's it was like a religious experience for me. I found it to be unbelievably intense and I was completely blown away by Lemmy's gravitas and his overhead mic stand and wall of Marshall stacks the sheer volume. Same thing with Celtic Frost, D666 and Inquisition especially the first times I saw them, theyeach  exceeded all expectations and I left shocked and amazed and completely blown away. You might have come along with me and left with an entirely different impression of those exact same shows.

So like if you're not really that into a band, (the way I'm not really that into Maiden) I think you'd be rolling your eyes and groaning the entire time at how dumb all of Bruce's stage antics were and how stupid all these other people around you are who are yelling and screaming their heads off. Have you ever seen any video of an evangelical church in the US where the people are 'feeling the spirit' and hyperventilating and fainting in the aisles? That evangelist preacher has incredibly powerful intensity and magnetic stage presence as far as these retard parishoners are concerned. But to dudes like us it would seem insane, like those morons were all suffering from some kind of mass delusion, I'm talking Jim Jones type shit. The way die-hard Maiden fans have always seemed to me in other words. You've all apparently willingly drank the Kool-Aid!

Finally they had the aesthetics and especially Eddie and the logo. I'd go as far as to say Iron Maiden invented modern metal aesthetics. 

Eddie, and metal mascots in general are kinda dumb IMO. It's fun for the young people I suppose. Personally I'm not interested in the aesthetics, or the outfits or their hairstyles or mascots, or slogans or the logos, I just want them to bring the riffs so I can bang my head.

And Powerslave is a superb album IMO and one of my all time favourites. 

IMO that take makes you delusional. I did think the first two songs were alright once upon a time, Aces High and Two Minutes Til Midnight I believe were their full titles, but that was it for that album, full stop. Maiden's best were Killers and Piece of Mind. And as a bonus I'll even throw in Hallowed and Run  to the Hills off Beast. The rest were all varying degrees of meh. 

Yes, I'm a Maiden fanboy.

I know you are sir, and believe me when I tell you I had you in mind every second of the entire time I was typing that earlier post so we could do this dance 😈

(Also yes I am excluding thrash metal ala Metallica, Exciter, Slayer etc. That's a different story and we know how it ends).

Fair enough my friend, we can agree to disagree about those bands another time. For now I'll just say that 80's Exciter is also easily 10 times the metal band Maiden ever was.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

3 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Never liked them. Never had any of their albums. I agree, baby steps music. No goat penises in sight.

[Dead1]

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Yes, you feel that way about Maiden (and possibly MegaStaine) because you like them, they're your all-time favorite bands, they seem special to you. And that's fine brother, like whichever bands you want. 

I really did enjoy your whole post even if we disagree on a lot of stuff and agree on others.

But the above paragraph hits the nail on the head.

 

Quote

 You've all apparently willingly drank the Kool-Aid!

 

Yes and no.  The fanboy in me defends Iron Maiden to the end, the more objective part of me will acknowledge the last 30 years has been a real mixed bag with a couple of terrible albums and a lot of mediocre albums there. 

Quote

, I can tell you that things like stage presence and the intensity of a live performance are perceived subjectivly according to how much one likes that particular band

 Actually the thing that got me into Iron Maiden in a major way was their Live After Death video.  Before that I'd heard a couple of tracks and that's it.  But when you're a teenager and Bruce is dancing around like a maniac with massive vocals whilst engaging the crowd, the guitars are squealing with rabid intensity and there's big fucking Egyptian set complete with gigantic mummy, then that's going to make an impression on you.

And yes I understand that VHS was a composite of several nights!  😆 

Always sad I missed Motorhead.  They came once to Australia that I am aware off but at the time I was just cranking lots of brutal shit and Motorhead didn't interest me.

 

Quote

Personally I'm not interested in the aesthetics, or the outfits or their hairstyles or mascots, or slogans or the logos,

It's kind of funny coz your favourite genre, black metal is really known for their aesthetics - logos, corpse paint, bullet belts, misty forests, pagan stuff etc. 

They don't have mascots per se but I'd argue your average corpse paint bullet belt festooned sword/axe carrying black metal band member is a kind of mascot!

 

[AlSymerz]

2 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Yeah you spelled "spelled" wrong but that's ok, you're 'Strayan and apparently they accept that kind of silliness down there so you can't be expected to know any better.

If I had been trying to spell spelled, your correction would have been valid, but us Strayans are versed enough in Engrish to have multiple words to describe some things.

[JonoBlade]

7 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

 There were much better bands from that era, imho of course, so tell me why are Maiden the exalted ones?

Good management.

[AlSymerz]

It's more than just good management. Management can only get them so far. Obviously they have been producing the right product for the right market and that product not only appealed to their old fan base but an entirely new fan base. Probably also got something to do with them being out there and amongst their fans. Be it relentless tours or as they are doing now playing soccer against teams local to where their gigs are, at least once a week.

Maiden wouldn't be the 'exalted ones' if they didn't have a millions of fans who still worship them. One doesn't have to understand why people worship a band to accept that the more who do the more exalted said band will appear to be.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

1 hour ago, Dead1 said:

I really did enjoy your whole post even if we disagree on a lot of stuff and agree on others.

But the above paragraph hits the nail on the head.

 

 

Yes and no.  The fanboy in me defends Iron Maiden to the end, the more objective part of me will acknowledge the last 30 years has been a real mixed bag with a couple of terrible albums and a lot of mediocre albums there. 

 Actually the thing that got me into Iron Maiden in a major way was their Live After Death video.  Before that I'd heard a couple of tracks and that's it.  But when you're a teenager and Bruce is dancing around like a maniac with massive vocals whilst engaging the crowd, the guitars are squealing with rabid intensity and there's big fucking Egyptian set complete with gigantic mummy, then that's going to make an impression on you.

And yes I understand that VHS was a composite of several nights!  😆 

Always sad I missed Motorhead.  They came once to Australia that I am aware off but at the time I was just cranking lots of brutal shit and Motörhead didn't interest me.

It's kind of funny coz your favourite genre, black metal is really known for their aesthetics - logos, corpse paint, bullet belts, misty forests, pagan stuff etc. 

They don't have mascots per se but I'd argue your average corpse paint bullet belt festooned sword/axe carrying black metal band member is a kind of mascot!

I generally enjoy talking about this kind of metal history stuff with you Deadovic, because even though we don't always agree on many things, and even though you didn't live through this shit because you're just a kid, 😛 and even though you can be just as hard headed a son of a bitch as I can be, at least you know what the fuck you're talking about and you're not full of shit. So I respect that about you, I see you as a genuine dyed in the wool metalhead motherfucker like me, it's in your DNA, you're not some 42 year old Johnny come lately poseur who just discovered metal last year. So as such I really enjoy our debates, not because I want to win, or because I think I'm gonna change your mind about anything, but just for the pure fun of it. I can go anywhere on the internet and debate politics or whatever, but there are only so many of us genuine metalheads around the world with whom I can have fun discussions about shit like this and who I feel I've gotten to know well enough that they won't take any of this personally.

Dude, believe me I've wrestled with the whole corpsepaint, leather and spikes aspects of black metal because I don't care about any of that nonsense, I'm really truly in it just for the music. I don't care about any of the Satanic aspects of black metal either because again, even though I do happen to be pretty vehemently anti-religion and anti-god (meaning I'm against the very delusional concept of gods and creators even existing to begin with, I'm not angry with some supernatural god being who doesn't even exist) I don't pay any attention to the lyrics in black or death metal and none of that Satan shit means anything at all to me, it's just a bunch of nonsense too that has nothing at all to do with why I'm drawn to black metal over death metal. I do admit to preferring music that sounds "evil" if we can even define what sounding "evil" means. I can't really explain it in words, but I know it when I hear it. And that holds true across all genres, black, death, thrash, doom or whatever, I just like it better when it's been "blackened" and sounds "evil."

Even Tom Araya when asked how he could reconcile his devout Catholic religious beliefs with the Satanic lyrical themes in Slayer's music told them that they're reading too much into the Satan thing, he just likes it because it sounds cool, that's all there is to it. And that's basically where I'm at too. I crave heavy, ugly, evil, abrasive music because it just sounds cool to me. Nothing more sinister behind it than that. I understand there are a lot of other people out there who really latch onto either the fashion or the Satanic aspects of black metal (or both) and those things can be a big part of the appeal to them, but I have no control over that. For my part it's really always been the riffs and the music that have resonated with me on a visceral level and that's a feeling I just don't get anywhere else other than from listening to the kinds of metal that I enjoy.

Now I will confess to walking around in my every day life sporting a bullet belt in my younger years back in the 80's, complete with the leather jacket, tight jeans and the long hair and the whole 9 yards. But I was a dumb 20-something kid back then, probably dumber and more immature back then than most of my peers I'd say if we're being completely forthright, and I'm not gonna defend that shit, but I'm not gonna apologize for it either. I did what I did and it was what it was, and I've long since abandoned any ideas or pretense about being "cool" in my old age or caring what anyone thinks of what I do or what I wear or what I say or what I listen to. I'm just another out of touch old man, just another swinging goat penis out on the bricks doing my own thing and minding my own damn business like anyone else.

Just want to add that I don't know what it is, but Motörhead has had a strong appeal to me from basically the first time I ever heard them whenever that was, '81 maybe. Something about Lemmy's don't give a fuck attitude just appeals so strongly on a subconscious level I think. Even when doing my bands countdown thing with CBS I found that Motörhead is still my #2 most listened to band today even with the thing set to only count the plays for the last 7 years as far back as October 2016. Yes even me, the kvlt black metal freak who poo-poos all things 80's and trad metal still loves his Motörhead. Because Motörhead has been with me for over 40 years, year in and year out one of the dependable constants of my adult life. Weird having the three of them all dead and gone now, but I'm still gonna be listening to their music til I'm dead and gone regardless of whatever trendy sub-genres come and go between now and then.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

17 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

It's more than just good management. Management can only get them so far. Obviously they have been producing the right product for the right market and that product not only appealed to their old fan base but an entirely new fan base. Probably also got something to do with them being out there and amongst their fans. Be it relentless tours or as they are doing now playing soccer against teams local to where their gigs are, at least once a week.

Maiden wouldn't be the 'exalted ones' if they didn't have a millions of fans who still worship them. One doesn't have to understand why people worship a band to accept that the more who do the more exalted said band will appear to be.

I don't read the blogs or track goings on in the mainstream metal world like you do, but no one's disputing their exalted larger than life status. I can accept that it's just the way it is. But I was just questioning why them of all bands. Have you never seen something that didn't quite add up to you and just wondered why them? No, one doesn't neccessarily need to understand to accept it, but did you ever just want to understand something?

I know you must have some curiosity in you because you know how to fix mechanical things. This means you were at some point inspired to take things apart to see how they worked and then put them back together again. Well I just want to take Iron Maiden's massive success that seems to me to be completely disproportionate to their talent apart and get to the bottom of how and why it works. I already know that it works, otherwise I wouldn't be questioning how and why it works.

1 hour ago, AlSymerz said:

If I had been trying to spell spelled, your correction would have been valid, but us Strayans are versed enough in Engrish to have multiple words to describe some things.

And you definitely were trying to spell "spelled" you're  just under the impression that "spelt" is a legitimate alternative pronunciation of "spelled."

[AlSymerz]

It's because they have a product people want. Marketing would have helped but for some reason, and I'm not pretending to know what it is, they created something that their fans stuck by. Pop artists do it. Clothing manufacturers do it. Apple did it. I don't understand why people want iphones, ipads, ianything. I don't understand why hip hop is so fucking huge.

However as soon as you make it about talent you start bringing it to a personal level and that always makes it harder to understand. Sure you don't think their talent warrants their success, and that's fine, but millions do. The opposite would go for a band you think have talents more worthy. You'd possibly ask why their talent hasn't bought them the same or more success than the hacks in Maiden. Talent can't be a major factor in their success given how subjective it is. Taste is subjective too, if a million people have tastes that align with your product, you're generally going to be more successful than someone who only has a thousand people with like tastes. So with personal opinion always tainting such topics we need to come up with real reasons that one band has success and another doesn't and I bet there is a lot of them.

21 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

And you definitely were trying to spell "spelled" you're  just under the impression that "spelt" is a legitimate alternative pronunciation of "spelled."

Pfft! That was hours ago now, for all I know I could have been trying to spell hippopotamus

[GoatmasterGeneral]

11 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

It's because they have a product people want. Marketing would have helped but for some reason, and I'm not pretending to know what it is, they created something that their fans stuck by. Pop artists do it. Clothing manufacturers do it. Apple did it. I don't understand why people want iphones, ipads, ianything. I don't understand why hip hop is so fucking huge.

However as soon as you make it about talent you start bringing it to a personal level and that always makes it harder to understand. Sure you don't think their talent warrants their success, and that's fine, but millions do. The opposite would go for a band you think have talents more worthy. You'd possibly ask why their talent hasn't bought them the same or more success than the hacks in Maiden. Talent can't be a major factor in their success given how subjective it is. Taste is subjective too, if a million people have tastes that align with your product, you're generally going to be more successful than someone who only has a thousand people with like tastes. So with personal opinion always tainting such topics we need to come up with real reasons that one band has success and another doesn't and I bet there is a lot of them.

I think to a certain extent I understood Maiden's success and why people wanted that product in the 80's & 90's when they were still somewhat relevant, even though I wasn't a huge fan myself. But I don't understand this massive legendary stature they've attained in the entertainment world all these decades later in their golden years when it seems they're maybe even bigger now than they were back when they were good and not so old. I could say the same thing about the Stones, they fucking suck but why are they so damn big now that they're in their 80's or 90's? Why does the idea that they'll all be dead soon make them more appealing to people? Or Aerosmith, a perfect example of a band who was once good and then went to shit yet I think they're more insanely popular now in their 70's than they ever were back when they were good.

I suppose what I'm really questioning is this whole concept of band loyalty spanning decades and transcending generations. Because I don't have this band loyalty gene instilled in me. Why won't people just learn to let shit go? When a band I dig releases a bad album or two that's all it takes and I will drop them in a heartbeat. And I mean dead to me like they never existed. I don't understand why liking a particular band means I should have to be locked in to liking them forever. That to me would be similar to liking a car so never buying a new one and just continuing to drive the same one for the next 50 years and two million miles even past the point where it's falling apart and just drive it right into the ground. If it were still running good then I could see it, yeah ok sure, keep it. But if it's falling apart and rusted through then it's ok to get a newer one. I personally see Maiden as having rusted out and fallen apart years ago so I'd expect most people to have moved on to other bands which are in better shape. But that doesn't appear to be the case. 

But nowadays it's like "My dad loves Maiden and so now I love them too!" For example I have a buddy who worships Rush. I hate them of course but he loves them. Until Neil died he used to take his kids to Rush concerts with him every year and now they're like 17 and 21 and they dig Rush too just like dad. It's like a religion or a sports team affiliation that just gets handed down to the next generation and no one questions it, and to me that's nuts. Because when we were kids we were expected to hate our parents' music and they were expected to hate ours even more. What happened with that?

[AlSymerz]

There is quite a bit of hatred, not just dislike, heartfelt hatred for Bruce and Janick these days. But even that doesn't seem to hurt their brand that much. It's similar with their new songs. I'm sure not everyone is there just for the classic hits when the tour a new album but there new songs seem to cop a ragging from people. Everyone has their favourites, that's fair, but when the last tour for Senjuitsu played multiple songs from the new album plus songs from the last album it's not all about classic hits either.

Steve has said they play for themselves, choose the set list for themselves, and I guess that shows. But then they've followed up the Senjitsu tour with a tour playing songs that haven't played in a long time, or like Alexander the Great never played before. Maybe that's endearing for a lot of fans too. Lots of maybes very few answers.

My kids are living the "hate dad's music" idea. I was playing Amyl and the Sniffers the other day and my eldest said "Do you listen to this music 'cause you love hearing young girls screaming about fucking you since mum wont?" But I did shut her up by telling her I could show her the videos to prove her wrong.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

5 hours ago, AlSymerz said:

There is quite a bit of hatred, not just dislike, heartfelt hatred for Bruce and Janick these days. But even that doesn't seem to hurt their brand that much. It's similar with their new songs. I'm sure not everyone is there just for the classic hits when the tour a new album but their new songs seem to cop a ragging from people. Everyone has their favorites, that's fair, but when the last tour for Senjuitsu played multiple songs from the new album plus songs from the last album it's not all about classic hits either.

Steve has said they play for themselves, choose the set list for themselves, and I guess that shows. But then they've followed up the Senjitsu tour with a tour playing songs that haven't played in a long time, or like Alexander the Great never played before. Maybe that's endearing for a lot of fans too. Lots of maybes very few answers.

My kids are living the "hate dad's music" idea. I was playing Amyl and the Sniffers the other day and my eldest said "Do you listen to this music 'cause you love hearing young girls screaming about fucking you since mum wont?" But I did shut her up by telling her I could show her the videos to prove her wrong.

Never heard of Amyl or her Sniffers so I had to dial them up. I generally like punk rock and I think this would be ok except in this case her Aussie accent kind of ruins it for me. Which is not to say I'm anti-Aussie or anything, I don't mind Aussie accents in general, I just don't like hers. I'm sure she wouldn't like my NY accent either. Actuallly I watched a live video and it's not just her accent, I just don't like her. Her voice, her vocal delivery and the jerky way she moves, not feeling it. I'll just stick with the Psychos for my Aussie punk fix. Hopefully they won't scream about fucking me since your mom won't. And trust me no one wants to see those videos, not even you. You should probably burn them.

[AlSymerz]

The vidoes only exist as a threat to shut one of the kids up when she gets too mouthy about things she shouldn't, and they work really well for that purpose. It used to be one of those things we'd throw around to embarrass her when she was younger but it still works now so no point burying it while it works. 

I used to work with a bloke that made his own porn movies. Turning up to work at midnight, half asleep, and not wanting to be there was bad enough but it wasn't made better by him coming in and offering his latest VHS tape. It was a different time then, no internet to release such stuff on, but they are still not the sort of thing you should offer your work mates.