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warbiscuit

Is doom metal extreme?

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I'm interested to see whether people class doom metal as extreme metal. I feel like with death or black metal it seems pretty obvious they belong under the extreme metal umbrella, but with doom there seems to be a wider variance. A band like Primitive Man are about as extreme as you can get, but then there's stuff like The Obsessed which gets labelled doom but is really just 70s-style hard rock, and not particularly extreme. What do people think? I just started a PhD researching extreme metal subgenres, and this stuff is fascinating to me.

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Ironically I think you miss out on the whole concept of sub-genres.  I'd class Primitive Man as more Sludge which I would deem to be more extreme than Doom.  Again death/doom is also very extreme.  Also I would apply some relativity to the discussion.  For their time Sabbath were considered extreme in terms of their sound in comparison to the relatively safe sounds of what was just rock at the time.  Nowadays replicators of that sound don't come across as being extreme because we have such extreme genres and sounds around as par for the course.

 

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A PhD? Huh, where do they offer that course of study? Sounds fun, at least.

I agree with Macabre, you've got to cut it down more finely if you're going to understand it. Not only are there different and nearly unrelated subgenres within doom, but there are bands that mix and match elements to a degree that makes it hard to say exactly what they "are", if that's even worth it. I think it's a mistake to think of it as a genre with definite boundaries. You need a Euler diagram. 

FWIW you'll find similar distinctions within DM and black metal. Some of that gets pretty subjective, too. We've talked about it a bunch, but never really put together a definitive chart. 

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1 minute ago, FatherAlabaster said:

You need a Euler diagram. 

FWIW you'll find similar distinctions within DM and black metal. Some of that gets pretty subjective, too. We've talked about it a bunch, but never really put together a definitive chart. 

As soon as I have finished logging my music collection I am on it.

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I'll echo what has been said above, it pretty well depends on the variety of doom metal being discussed. A lot of doom metal had clean vocals and a closer sonic relation to traditional metal, so a band like The Obsessed would not be on the extreme metal spectrum (though they are doom metal and not classic rock). However, a lot of doom variants are more extreme in general, but it also depends on the band. Cathedral's early work could definitely fall within the extreme metal spectrum, despite being a traditional doom metal band, and some bands that do belong to doom genres that are generally more extreme may sound pretty passive overall (the funeral doom metal band Fungoid Stream comes to mind). Doom metal is the most varied of any metal subgenre, so you can't really paint it in broad stroke terms.

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It's interesting because I can't think of a single death metal or black metal band that wouldn't be considered extreme, but the label doom seems to cover such a diverse range of styles from sludge, funeral doom, drone, death-doom etc. which I'd call extreme to stoner rock and traditional doom which are closer to hard rock and not that extreme.

A lot of the academic writing on extreme metal completely ignores doom or only gives it a passing mention, and I wonder if that's because it is so diverse and harder to make generalisations about than other forms of extreme metal.

 

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It's interesting because I can't think of a single death metal or black metal band that wouldn't be considered extreme, but the label doom seems to cover such a diverse range of styles from sludge, funeral doom, drone, death-doom etc. which I'd call extreme to stoner rock and traditional doom which are closer to hard rock and not that extreme.

A lot of the academic writing on extreme metal completely ignores doom or only gives it a passing mention, and I wonder if that's because it is so diverse and harder to make generalisations about than other forms of extreme metal.

 

No, I really think that it has to do with the tempo. Doom will always be the least accessible metal genre because of the speed, or lack thereof.

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In that sense doom is actually quite extreme. The tempo is radically slower then most music out there and when paired with the often low-tuned guitars and heavier tones make for a challenging listening experience. If we compare with death metal's rapid-fire riffs, often stripped back melodies and harsh vocals which confront the listener in a different way it's easier to see how extremes work. Death and black metal just have more notorious bands like Cannibal Corpse and Burzum which is why they are so heavily focused on.

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IF there is anyone out there who wonders if it is OK for them to listen to Doom, as they want only to listen to extreme metals I for one would like to assure them that doom metal listening will not jeopardize their integrity in any way. Admittedly some doom is only ever so slightly extreme, so take care, but even then it may just be a little dated is all. Still though, it is extremely old in that case, or extremely mild and there by safe in one sense or another.

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1 hour ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Nice to see you back here Gorbo how have you been?

I'm well, thanks. And thanks for asking. I actually check the forum out all the time, but am out of the habit of posting. I'm practicing the bass a lot, and even getting somewhere, though it feels slow. I'm taking lessons , so very helpful. I have a new job where we listen to doom metal and stoner rock. It is a mushroom factory making blocks of shiitake mostly. Very repetitive, but a fun social scene. Tomorrow might be the end of my gardening season. 

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On 3.12.2016 at 8:17 PM, GorboGorboze said:

IF there is anyone out there who wonders if it is OK for them to listen to Doom, as they want only to listen to extreme metals I for one would like to assure them that doom metal listening will not jeopardize their integrity in any way. 

I have always felt that it´s the music alone that should matter. It´s so silly that people don´t give stuff a chance only because it´s not extreme enough sounds well.. bit stupid to be honest. It´s the one big thing that kept me from fully engaging in the 90s black metal scene in example, i always felt it was too much about other things than music. I did listen to it (still do) like i listen to all kinds of metal and always did. As for the original posters question.. does it really matter? It´s awesome genre with lot of variety when you really look into it. Also in metal, the subgenres are an endless maze.. something i usually ignore myself.. so good luck with the PhD.. fascinating subject indeed but most certainly a complex one and i doubt you get 2 same answers. :)

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What's with all the one off posters asking if *something is something* and then never posting again? 

Is there some sort of government monitoring system at work on this forum or what? it just seems so dodgy. 

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4 hours ago, Requiem said:

What's with all the one off posters asking if *something is something* and then never posting again? 

Is there some sort of government monitoring system at work on this forum or what? it just seems so dodgy. 

Lazy fucker just wants us to give them material for their thesis. Turn up, say silly things, watch the forum melt!

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If we had a bigger sample of jargon in our discourse I think that the academic types would show more interest in us. They would feel more like real anthropologists if we came off as being more exotic than we do. It might be a good idea, we could get some trade goods out of the deal, plus understanding from the intelligentsia.

 

I guess we should talk about drugs more than we do, that could help, like that time when I got so high on heavy metal drugs that it was fucking mental "out of the skull" how high I was on those bespoke drugs.

 

As for Mass MurDER... well, at my advanced age the thought of it is basically exhausting. But what if I could slay thousands with a massive heavy metal bass solo attack! That would RULE!

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Really depends on the subgenre.  I love extreme metal, and try to shy away from mainstream stuff (not out of elitism tho).  Older doom and prog doom might fall under regular metal, while funeral doom, drone doom, death doom, and more subgenres are certainly extreme.  Listen to what u want tho, dont listen to elitists tell u what and what not to do.

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