Bathory

[Iceni]

Little bitch couldn't even tempt a starving man wandering in the desert with food.

Did you see the Eddie Griffin routine about Satan?

[RelentlessOblivion]

If we're thinking of the same bit he never actually mentioned Satan.

[BlutAusNerd]

Did you see the Eddie Griffin routine about Satan?

Can't say I'm an Eddie Griffin fan, so no.

[TotalUberfuhrer]

Haha I think I've found it here xD

Thanks Iceni, never watched him until now, and he owns ^^ "All the Christians goes: YOU'RE GOING TO HELL!!!" So awesome!

[Iceni]

He got to be a bit of an ass in recent years, too pleased with himself and his idiotic political theories. His old stuff is great, though.

[RelentlessOblivion]

You want bonkers political theories you should see some of the stuff that came out on my other forum...

[TotalUberfuhrer]

What do they say over there? xD

[RelentlessOblivion]

Well by far the funniest was the bloke who said there's one secret organisation which is actually in charge of every government in the world.

[BlutAusNerd]

Well by far the funniest was the bloke who said there's one secret organisation which is actually in charge of every government in the world.

NWO conspiracy theorists aren't uncommon, and I call live with stuff like that which might actually be plausible and is just lacking in evidence or motive, but the truly moronic stuff that people like Alex Jones talks about sets me off.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Our Prime Minister sets me off. If ever there was a man who ought never to have found themself in charge of a country it was Tony Abbott.

[TotalUberfuhrer]

Our Prime Minister sets me off. If ever there was a man who ought never to have found themself in charge of a country it was Tony Abbott.

There's a lot of that going on nowadays.

[RelentlessOblivion]

"Climate change is a myth the Labour party are trying to sell Australia. I don't believe it and I doubt the people are stupid enough to believe it." - Tony Abbott pre-election "Homosexuality is a disease. Allowing it to fester by permitting gay marriage won't help us find the cure" - Tony Abbott "This person who isn't Australian is more Australian then any Australian so I'm making them a night in the Order Of Australia" - Tony Abbott I doubt there's another politician in the western world this stupid.

[Iceni]

I doubt there's another politician in the western world this stupid.

I don't know, Rick Santorum has to be in the running.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Maybe though I doubt there's an image of him in a speedo floating around. *shudder*

[BlutAusNerd]

I don't know' date=' Rick Santorum has to be in the running.[/quote'] No question, Sarah Palin as well.

[The Batlord]

Slightly off-topic, but I have to take issue with classifying Hammerheart-era Bathory as Viking metal. Viking metal isn't a musical genre, it's a lyrical genre. Nobody says it for some reason, but at that point Bathory was pretty much a doom metal band. Listen to "Baptized In Fire and Ice" and tell me that's not stone cold doom.

[RelentlessOblivion]

If it were merely a lyrical theme (which it isn't) I doubt Viking metal would be a lasting tag. The fact that it has been accepted by the majority of headbangers as a unique genre is anecdotal evidence of its legitimacy. Further proof comes in the form of clearly identified common traits: incorporation of norse folk instruments. complex folk passages layered over more simplistic metal elements (usually taking cues from black metal), triumphant/majestic atmosphere, norse themed lyrics. To expand upon that point consider the similarities between Hammerheart and Vikingligr Veldi. Two albums by different bands each demonstrating these traits whilst maintaining a strong sense of individuality.

[The Batlord]

If it were merely a lyrical theme (which it isn't) I doubt Viking metal would be a lasting tag. The fact that it has been accepted by the majority of headbangers as a unique genre is anecdotal evidence of its legitimacy. Further proof comes in the form of clearly identified common traits: incorporation of norse folk instruments. complex folk passages layered over more simplistic metal elements (usually taking cues from black metal)' date=' triumphant/majestic atmosphere, norse themed lyrics. To expand upon that point consider the similarities between Hammerheart and Vikingligr Veldi. Two albums by different bands each demonstrating these traits whilst maintaining a strong sense of individuality.[/quote'] Some bands might share similarities, but in general "Viking metal" bands may or may not have the slightest things in common. Would you compare Bathory to Amon Amarth or Turisas? Sure some bands have folk elements--though I don't know why you would call them Viking metal as opposed to just folk metal--but it's not in any way a necessary part of the "genre". Besides, for the most part Bathory didn't use much folk music. Doom metal is a much more accurate description of their "Viking metal" sound.

[RelentlessOblivion]

I'm in the minority given I consider Amon Amarth to be death metal and not viking metal. What I take as being viking metal is what I described previously. As for why viking metal is a better fit then folk metal it is because those elements, while present, are not the focus of the music. In folk metal those elements are in the foreground.

[The Batlord]

I'm in the minority given I consider Amon Amarth to be death metal and not viking metal. What I take as being viking metal is what I described previously. As for why viking metal is a better fit then folk metal it is because those elements' date=' while present, are not the focus of the music. In folk metal those elements are in the foreground.[/quote'] I think you're splitting hairs. And like I said, those folk elements still don't really apply to Bathory nearly as much as a band like Falkenbach or Moonsorrow. They be doom, dude.

[RelentlessOblivion]

It's been a little while since I've listened to Hammerheart but I didn't really get a doom vibe from it. It's slow sure but that isn't the defining trait of doom. It has little in common with the likes of Sabbath, Trouble, November's Doom or My Dying Bride for example. Additionally it predates a lot of the doom/death and other more extreme doom releases. We may not agree on where in the genre spectrum Hammerheart fits but it's a great album. Haven't heard their other viking metal material yet. One of these days I'll get on to that.

[BlutAusNerd]

Some bands might share similarities' date=' but in general "Viking metal" bands may or may not have the slightest things in common. Would you compare Bathory to Amon Amarth or Turisas? Sure some bands have folk elements--though I don't know why you would call them Viking metal as opposed to just folk metal--but it's not in any way a necessary part of the "genre". Besides, for the most part Bathory didn't use much folk music. Doom metal is a much more accurate description of their "Viking metal" sound.[/quote'] Yes, those bands do all have an epic, triumphant focus in their songwriting that unites them, which is why more death metal based bands like Amon Amarth or Asmegin are viking metal as well as more black metal based bands like Moonsorrow or Hades, or power metal based bands like Falconer, or even prog based bands like Tyr. Trying to call these bands the genres that some of their techniques originate from makes less sense than a unifying viking metal label, as those techniques are used in different context with different note selection, chord/melody progression, and songwriting style. Also, as a doom metal musician, I can't call Hammerheart doom metal or even doom metal based (as I had referred to other bands above), it sounds to me like it is based in epic heavy metal ala Manowar to me.

[BlutAusNerd]

It's been a little while since I've listened to Hammerheart but I didn't really get a doom vibe from it. It's slow sure but that isn't the defining trait of doom. It has little in common with the likes of Sabbath, Trouble, November's Doom or My Dying Bride for example. Additionally it predates a lot of the doom/death and other more extreme doom releases. We may not agree on where in the genre spectrum Hammerheart fits but it's a great album. Haven't heard their other viking metal material yet. One of these days I'll get on to that.

It is definitely a breathtaking listen, and their other viking metal releases are very nearly as good. Twilight of the Gods is similar to Hammerheart, but they change the formula a bit with the Nordland albums, and luckily one of those changes is that Quorthon learned how to sing.

[The Batlord]

Yes' date=' those bands do all have an epic, triumphant focus in their songwriting that unites them, which is why more death metal based bands like Amon Amarth or Asmegin are viking metal as well as more black metal based bands like Moonsorrow or Hades, or power metal based bands like Falconer, or even prog based bands like Tyr.[b'] Trying to call these bands the genres that some of their techniques originate from makes less sense than a unifying viking metal label, as those techniques are used in different context with different note selection, chord/melody progression, and songwriting style. Also, as a doom metal musician, I can't call Hammerheart doom metal or even doom metal based (as I had referred to other bands above), it sounds to me like it is based in epic heavy metal ala Manowar to me.

That doesn't make any sense. Don't call Amon Amarth death metal or melodic death metal just cause they don't sound like an At the Gates clone? Don't call Falconer power metal cause it doesn't sound like Dragonforce is parodying their sound? I'm sure you could come up with just as relevant reasons to say that Children of Bodom aren't melodic death metal, since they do have a certain individuality, or Virgin Steele and power metal. And I'd agree with the Manowar comparison. I've often thought that if Hammerheart was The Lord of the Rings then Into Glory Ride would be Conan. But just because Quorthon didn't set out to make a doom metal album doesn't mean he couldn't have arrived there in his own unique niche all by himself.

[BlutAusNerd]

That doesn't make any sense. Don't call Amon Amarth death metal or melodic death metal just cause they don't sound like an At the Gates clone? Don't call Falconer power metal cause it doesn't sound like Dragonforce is parodying their sound? I'm sure you could come up with just as relevant reasons to say that Children of Bodom aren't melodic death metal, since they do have a certain individuality, or Virgin Steele and power metal. And I'd agree with the Manowar comparison. I've often thought that if Hammerheart was The Lord of the Rings then Into Glory Ride would be Conan. But just because Quorthon didn't set out to make a doom metal album doesn't mean he couldn't have arrived there in his own unique niche all by himself.

It has nothing to do with not sounding like some well known band from the scene you're bringing into question, it has everything to do with how they're using the techniques that they're borrowing from that scene that sets them apart. Let's use Enslaved as an example, as especially early on they bore some similarities to black metal bands in their scene due to using tremolo picked riffs, blast beats, shrieked vocals, and Grieghallen production. However, if you listen to what's beneath those superficial traits, you'll hear completely different songwriting style, melody patterns, and chord progressions that all lead to the creation of an atmosphere and feeling that is far removed from black metal. You'll notice that viking metal is far less dark sounding and more triumphant sounding than bands from the genres they borrow from, and a rousing feeling tends to run through their songs. And I do have a relevant reason for saying that Children of Bodom are not melodic death metal: they have no death metal in their sound, melodic or otherwise. I still can't hear any doom riffs in Bathory's music for the life of me. As I said previously, I am a doom metal musician, and the riffs tend to be the determining factor for genre placement in any metal category, though especially so with doom. My band was working on covering One Rode to Asa Bay a couple of years ago, but bagged it because we couldn't make it fit our doom metal sound. Just because it's slower than many of his other releases doesn't mean that it's doom, as doom is a genre, not a tempo.