Bathory

[RelentlessOblivion]

So what is that supposed to mean that you registered an account earlier than I did? That does not reflect on the subject nor a relation to any "evil" capabilities.Just common sense.I just had a 21st birthday a week ago.I'm a Capricorn.The most serious' date='determined,passionate,Self-sufficient sign.[/quote'] Then why are you carrying on like a preteen who can't believe someone doesn't like justin bieber?

[RelentlessOblivion]

See now' date=' you all get [i']mad at me when I get like this.

I don't, I look forward to seeing this Iceni, more of this and I may stop calling you Iceman.

[~Mere~]

She needs some thicker skin if she plans to survive the internet' date=' especially when her opinions and arguments are about as sensible as those of the dinosaur guy. I'm amused, and just like the dino goon, I'm genuinely curious as to what planet she is living on. The only reasons I would have to ban someone would be if they spout off like this without contributing anything positive, and while that so far hasn't been the case, this person is still new.[/quote'] Yeah that Dino-douche was a moron. I honestly think he didn't believe what he was selling. It came across as a joke. As for Brutal, it sounds like she's committed to what she believes even if it has been communicated in a not so forum friendly manner. But then again, RaiCoss is still here and I don't need to explain what he's like....

[RelentlessOblivion]

See I think Rai started out ok and is only now starting to wear a little thin. BTT666 has demonstrated a complete lack of tact and a surprisingly closed-minded attitude attitude for a metalhead.

[BlutAusNerd]

See I think Rai started out ok and is only now starting to wear a little thin. BTT666 has demonstrated a complete lack of tact and a surprisingly closed-minded attitude attitude for a metalhead.

Some people need to be humbled by getting their nose bloodied in a losing battle, sometimes it's the only way they'll learn. She can open her eyes and give up this charade, or get the fuck out. Again, it's one thing to raise hell with crazy opinions, but it's another thing entirely to throw a tantrum and lash out at everyone else when you don't get your way.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Who knows she may end up being a valued forum member in about four years...

[BrutalTeutonicThrasher666]

If the concept is to prove the opponent wrong' date=' then get to it. I have cited multiple sources proving my point, you mentioned a Wikipedia article that RelentlessOblivion picked apart (because yet again, you failed to do your research and didn't read the whole thing), and then posted a singular link to Bathory's Wikipedia page, which says that they are black metal. The thrash metal tag applies only to their Octagon and Requiem albums, which suck and influenced next to nobody (much like Quorthon's grunge albums), and are often forgotten by many. Seriously, get to it, I'm waiting to have my mind blown, don't keep me in suspense.[/quote'] Wikipedia also included "Viking metal",which in a similar way is a debated over whether it's a genre or not.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Wikipedia also included "Viking metal"' date='which in a similar way is a debated over whether it's a genre or not.[/quote'] If wikipedia is so unreliable then why is it the ONLY source you have made any references to? Compounding your situation is the fact that you rely on one small part of the article taking it out of context.

[BrutalTeutonicThrasher666]

If you want to use years of formation' date=' Venom began in 1979, so you're still wrong. Redundantly, I yet again beg for you to do some research.[/quote'] Venom and Hellhammer are indisputably part of the early Thrash scene.The debate is over whether "black metal" is an appropriate term to distinguish these bands and become separate from the other overlapping terms "thrash" and "speed metal". Venom - Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives Hellhammer - Encyclopaedia Metallum: The Metal Archives

[RelentlessOblivion]

If it's so undisputable then why does the only source you have made reference to thus far not label them as such? Unless you're saying that your own source is incorrect rendering all arguments based off that information null and void.

[RelentlessOblivion]

As for your question there is overlap across most genres. If black metal is not a stand alone genre why should death metal be? Why should thrash metal be? why should doom metal be? Why are these labels worth maintaining whilst black metal ought to be abandoned? Why have subgenres at all?

[BrutalTeutonicThrasher666]

If wikipedia is so unreliable then why is it the ONLY source you have made any references to? Compounding your situation is the fact that you rely on one small part of the article taking it out of context.

Where did I once state Wikipedia is unreliable which it very rarely is?

[RelentlessOblivion]

On the contrary Wikipedia can be, for the most part, freely edited by the public making it very unreliable.

Wikipedia also included "Viking metal"' date='which in a similar way is a debated over whether it's a genre or not.[/quote'] If you disagree with your source then the implication is that material ought to be taken as unreliable or questionable. Whilst no source material is airtight it's worth picking something that actually supports your argument and which you agree with.

[Midi]

I knew I should have grabbed some popcorn before coming to this thread... Anyway:

This is a debate.

In that case I have a silly idea: how about you actually debate now?

[RelentlessOblivion]

You can't exactly debate an individual who contradicts their own evidence.

[BrutalTeutonicThrasher666]

I knew I should have grabbed some popcorn before coming to this thread... Anyway: In that case I have a silly idea: how about you actually debate now?

How about instead you come up with a reasonable and profound response that refutes my conceptions like a normal person?

[Midi]

How about instead you come up with a reasonable and profound response that refutes my conceptions like a normal person?

There is nothing to refute anymore. BAN, RelentlessOblivion as well as you yourself have already disproved every argument you made. I don't even intend to waste more words on you than I already have in this post, since I know it's of no use.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Been there, done that, your retort was ineffective pointing to Bathory's history as first a black metal band, then a viking metal band, then an ill-fated retro thrash band on Octagon and Requiem before returning to their viking metal sound for the magnificent Nordlands albums. Thus far you've provided mostly opinion. When you have referred to sources they have easily been used to counter your own arguments. If you wish to continue this debate in an intelligent fashion I urge you to locate more convincing material for your argument. If, on the other hand, you feel belligerance and hostility are the best route to take we can do that as well.

[BlutAusNerd]

How about instead you come up with a reasonable and profound response that refutes my conceptions like a normal person?

Indeed, all of us normal people have used coherent arguments to prove you wrong, thank you for noticing. Do you have anything to add, or are you ready to concede defeat?

[BrutalTeutonicThrasher666]

Indeed' date=' all of us normal people have used coherent arguments to prove you wrong, thank you for noticing. Do you have anything to add, or are you ready to concede defeat?[/quote'] You are the complete opposite of normal, you're a lunatic.You need to admit yourself in long-term care,get put on risperdal (or however it's spelled) and actually get the professional help you need. I just mentioned how Black metal,Viking Metal,Pagan metal,Pirate Metal, etc.could qualify for more than 1 specific genre.Whether they are thrash/speed based (Venom) or Death based (Darkthrone). Take the same principle with Christian rock,it doesn't exactly differentiate that much from any other cheesy, Ionian-based pop-rock music other than replacing "baby" with "Jesus".

[BlutAusNerd]

You are the complete opposite of normal, you're a lunatic.You need to admit yourself in long-term care,get put on risperdal (or however it's spelled) and actually get the professional help you need. I just mentioned how Black metal,Viking Metal,Pagan metal,Pirate Metal, etc.could qualify for more than 1 specific genre.Whether they are thrash/speed based (Venom) or Death based (Darkthrone). Take the same principle with Christian rock,it doesn't exactly differentiate that much from any other cheesy, Ionian-based pop-rock music other than replacing "baby" with "Jesus".

Interesting reversal, the one using logical arguments and citing his sources in opposition to a petulant and irrational ball or rage is the one that needs help. I guess I shouldn't expect any different, though I'm curious why you're continuing this in the face of failure at every turn. Are you a glutton for punishment, or do you think that these kinds of unfounded personal attacks are a good way to foster a good long term relationship with this forum? I'll admit that watching you crash into the same wall over and over again while learning nothing has been amusing, but all returns are diminishing in this world. No, those titles do not qualify for more than one genre, with the exception of pirate metal. The difference being that "pirate metal" is a lyrical theme, and bands that play this style don't have a specific sound, which you are ever so incorrectly accusing black metal and viking metal of. Venom emerged from speed metal, as they definitely take cues from speed metal bands like Motörhead, but so too did Sabbath take cues from blues bands (so much so that their debut album, which is widely regarded as the world's first heavy metal album, nearly halfway comprised of blues covers), yet I never hear them referred to as blues. Similarly, Sabbath set the template for thrash with Symptom of the Universe, which actually features a thrash metal main riff unlike anything Venom ever did, so why isn't Sabbath called thrash metal themselves? I could no more call Venom thrash metal than The Misfits, Discharge, AC/DC, or the multitude of other bands that were influential to thrash metal without being thrash themselves. Venom not only started black metal, coining the term with the title track from their second album, but all bands that call themselves black metal do so because they were directly following in Venom's footsteps. You continue to assert that lyrics have everything to do with the black metal label, and have yet to refute any of my points regarding black metal bands that write lyrics about topics other than Satan, nor bands who write about Satan, yet are not black metal. The reason that you have yet to refute this is because you can't, nor can you attempt to call thrash metal bands country music for writing songs about getting drunk, nor can you call black metal bands bluegrass for writing songs about the mountains. Genres of music are genres of music, not genres of lyrics. Your point about Darkthrone is also moot because they, like nearly every other group of Norwegian musicians in the early 90's, began as a death metal band, but abruptly jumped ship and ditched all of death death metal influences to became a black metal band directly inspired by the first wave black metal artists of the 80's. And that's right, you guessed it, I can prove that too: https://rateyourmusic.com/release/comp/various_artists_f2/fenriz_presents____the_best_of_old_school_black_metal/ Wait, a release that Fenriz of Darkthrone compiled called "The Best of Old-School Black Metal" features tracks by none other than Venom, Hellhammer, and Bathory? How interesting. If you think that he doesn't know because they were once a death metal band, maybe you should listen to Soulside Journey and Panzerfaust back to back, just to make sure that your ears aren't made out of cucumbers and you can tell the difference. Again, good luck, you've got quite the uphill battle ahead of you. My dare stands, prove me wrong, or give up this ludicrous quest of yours to prove something that is completely false.

[RelentlessOblivion]

BTT666 thus far the only person yet to make a coherent argument is you. Let's summise what you've said: 1. Black metal has only one identifying trait - Satanic themes. 2. Therefore black metal is not a genre. 3. No band which has ever been identified as black metal is - they are all speed metal, thrash metal or death metal. Your sources - opinion and wikipedia articles which contradict that opinion. Now let's summise the opposing argument. 1. Black metal has many identifying traits. 2. Black metal is a genre. 3. Black metal bands have influenced other genres. 4. Whilst taking cues from other genres at times black metal does not fit into these genres. Sources - video links, various articles, anecdotal evidence, opinion.

[TotalUberfuhrer]

[ATTACH=CONFIG]1748[/ATTACH] Presented to you by our very own forum Elcor! Soothingly, he wishes to add that this forum is awesome even though everyone can't be friends all the time. Persuasively, he urge us all to worship Satan because he's the boss of Hell and the father of the Reapers. Peace out!

[RelentlessOblivion]

Satan's a wimp...kneel before Zod

[BlutAusNerd]

Satan's a wimp...kneel before Zod

Little bitch couldn't even tempt a starving man wandering in the desert with food.