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Bathory


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Re: Bathory

which reminds me I need more Bathory albums' date=' damn I have waaaaaaaaaay too many albums to buy and not enough funds to buy them all.[/quote'] It is extremely difficult to track down everything, but that's the beauty of metal. There's SO MUCH good shit out there, both old and new, that you could collect forever and never have it all. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
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  • 1 year later...

Would you classify Bathory as Black Metal? For me, I would classify UTSOTBM as being BM - at least in terms of atmosphere. Blood Fire Death and the self titled album seem a bit thrashy to me, and most of their material from Hammerheart onwards seems like viking metal. Another thing is some of Bathory's songs have a speed and intensity which is often lacking in other Black Metal material, and include many high speed solo's (can I say that for a one man band?) which is uncommon in BM or at least in my experience. Personally, I think the 2nd Wave of BM is where BM truly began in terms of production, the 1st wave provided the inspiration for it. Thoughts?

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I have addressed this elsewhere, but first wave black metal is black metal, there are no two ways about it. To say that first wave black metal is not black metal because what evolved from it sounds more "extreme" is akin to saying that Night of the Living Dead is not a horror movie because modern slasher films are more violent, or that Led Zeppelin made it so that Chuck Berry no longer counts as rock and roll. Anyway, for Bathory in particular, I can't say that there are any thrash riffs in their early work until Blood Fire Death, but that album could merit black/thrash status. First wave black metal's roots are in speed metal, which is also a root of thrash metal, so some riffs may have some similar features, but the note selection is quite different and sets black metal apart. Under the Sign of the Black Mark was one of the templates from which the Scandinavian 2nd wave black metal sound was derived from, and the album itself did help propel black metal from the first wave to the second (along with pioneering albums like INRI and Anno Domini), but again, this doesn't change that their prior works were black metal as well. Your comment about the speed and intensity present in Bathory's early work is one thing that has made me less fond of post-second wave black metal, and why I tend to prefer bands that don't forget the roots of black metal more than most modern sounding stuff. This is not to say that I'm a total purist or elitist, but something about that sound just speaks to me a great deal more than the non-stop blast beating or post-rock sounding stuff that many bands have done since. It seems like there has been something of a resurgence of bands focusing on the older sound lately, so I have been quite happy with a number of recent albums in that respect.

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I have addressed this elsewhere, but first wave black metal is black metal, there are no two ways about it. To say that first wave black metal is not black metal because what evolved from it sounds more "extreme" is akin to saying that Night of the Living Dead is not a horror movie because modern slasher films are more violent, or that Led Zeppelin made it so that Chuck Berry no longer counts as rock and roll. Anyway, for Bathory in particular, I can't say that there are any thrash riffs in their early work until Blood Fire Death, but that album could merit black/thrash status. First wave black metal's roots are in speed metal, which is also a root of thrash metal, so some riffs may have some similar features, but the note selection is quite different and sets black metal apart. Under the Sign of the Black Mark was one of the templates from which the Scandinavian 2nd wave black metal sound was derived from, and the album itself did help propel black metal from the first wave to the second (along with pioneering albums like INRI and Anno Domini), but again, this doesn't change that their prior works were black metal as well. Your comment about the speed and intensity present in Bathory's early work is one thing that has made me less fond of post-second wave black metal, and why I tend to prefer bands that don't forget the roots of black metal more than most modern sounding stuff. This is not to say that I'm a total purist or elitist, but something about that sound just speaks to me a great deal more than the non-stop blast beating or post-rock sounding stuff that many bands have done since. It seems like there has been something of a resurgence of bands focusing on the older sound lately, so I have been quite happy with a number of recent albums in that respect.
I understand what you're saying with regards to the 1st paragraph with the development of black metal from 1st wave to 2nd. UTSOTBM is the only prominent BM album for me though, like a prototype BM album which future ones would develop from. The self titled album has thrash written all over it - tbh it sounds like early slayer material to me.
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I understand what you're saying with regards to the 1st paragraph with the development of black metal from 1st wave to 2nd. UTSOTBM is the only prominent BM album for me though' date=' like a prototype BM album which future ones would develop from. The self titled album has thrash written all over it - tbh it sounds like early slayer material to me.[/quote'] Slayer's early work could be characterized as black metal as well, they didn't have much in common with the bay area scene that they sprang from until the mid-late 80's. I don't hear much in common between Bathory and albums like Show No Mercy or Hell Awaits though, Bathory is pretty much just raw Venom worship, like most other first wave black metal bands started (Sodom, NME, Bulldozer, etc...). The Return is another story though, as it pushed a great deal further than it is often given credit for, with proto-blast beats, dark chord progressions, and some of Quorthon's most horrifying vocals.
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I have no trouble calling Bathory black metal' date=' up until Hammerheart that is, few bands can claim to have inspired slo much great music across two distinct sub-genres. As I've said before Mercyful Fate are the only 1st wave BM band I struggle to accept as being BM.[/quote'] Few bands can claim to have such an impressive discography to their name as well. 4 pioneering and killer black metal albums, 4 pioneering and also killer viking metal albums, with only a few mediocre missteps to gloss over.
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I can easly say that UTSOTBM is the black metal. think Quorthon was the first artist ever, that trasfered that nordic cold in music on this album. Before that as you guys were saying 1st album was just (as for Sodom and Hellhammer) "copying" Venom. But on The Return... there were few actualy realy cool songs - The return of darkness and evil, Possesed... Albums after Blood fire death i consider as viking metal.

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  • 3 weeks later...

The term "Black metal" is vague.It could be thrash,death,doom etc. but as long as there's satanic lyrics and themes it's labeled "black metal.Venom and Bathory are thrash,Immortal and Mayhem are more doom, and Dimmu borgir is prog metal but they all fall into the same black metal category. Conclusion: it isn't particularly a actual genre as much as it is a 'lyrical theme' same with "viking metal" for instance which Amon Amarth are considered but really they're just more of a death metal band.

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*facepalm* Black metal is a clearly defined genre, possessing many qualities not seen in other metal sub-genres (croaked/shrieked vocals, focus on atmosphere, to name a few). Similar story with viking metal though you are correct in stating that Amon Amarth are death metal.
Come on, man. She's called 'BrutalTeutonicThrasher666'; she obviously knows her stuff better than you do.
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