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Just because they have crossover doesn't make them the same thing. You said yourself earlier that many bands change genres' date=' pull influences from other genres, combine them, etc..., so especially in regards to bordering genres, crossover is to be expected, but that doesn't mean that they're the same. The difference is that folk metal tends to be more like FOLK metal, folk song structures and writing with metal instruments, whereas viking metal uses folky melodies in a metal context. Think Skyclad for folk metal, Thyrfing for viking metal.[/quote'] Exactly, there's a massive difference between King of Asgard, a rising viking metal band, and folk metal. Case in point: HblP8090R1w
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Exactly, there's a massive difference between King of Asgard, a rising viking metal band, and folk metal. Case in point: HblP8090R1w
Thanks dude, hadn't heard them before, I quite liked that. It also definitely helped to illustrate my point, as that doesn't sound like black metal, death metal, or folk metal, despite pulling influence from all 3.
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Thanks dude' date=' hadn't heard them before, I quite liked that. It also definitely helped to illustrate my point, as that doesn't sound like black metal, death metal, or folk metal, despite pulling influence from all 3.[/quote'] They're pretty cool, and they've done some more intricate stuff since then. I'm friends with the rhythm guitarist, Lars Tangmark, who also used to play bass for Dawn. We met on a different music forum back in 2008 and have stayed in touch since.
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  • 2 weeks later...
Bestial Black Metal is literally Matt wanting to be a special snowflake. EDIT: Don't get me wrong, I like the guy, and he's always been very courteous to me, but he's even admitted that there's no recognizable difference sonically between regular black metal and the bestial variety :D
Well I fucked up. Bestial black seems to be a totally legit genre. What I was thinking of was Bestial HELL Metal, which is totally just something that the Witchclan guy made up. My mistake :D
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Well I fucked up. Bestial black seems to be a totally legit genre. What I was thinking of was Bestial HELL Metal' date=' which is totally just something that the Witchclan guy made up. My mistake :D[/quote'] Lol, I was wondering what you were talking about. It's more commonly called "war metal", but I prefer the term bestial black metal, as it should just be considered a black metal subgenre. It started with Blasphemy, and pretty much every band to play the style has followed in their footsteps, stuff like early Beherit, Archgoat, early Impaled Nazarene, Morbosidad, Blasphemophagher, Revenge, etc...
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Lol' date=' I was wondering what you were talking about. It's more commonly called "war metal", but I prefer the term bestial black metal, as it should just be considered a black metal subgenre. It started with Blasphemy, and pretty much every band to play the style has followed in their footsteps, stuff like early Beherit, Archgoat, early Impaled Nazarene, Morbosidad, Blasphemophagher, Revenge, etc...[/quote'] Yeah I feel like a total dummy now haha. What's really nuts is I've never listened to any of those bands...
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Yeah I feel like a total dummy now haha. What's really nuts is I've never listened to any of those bands...
I'm not sure if you'd be into it or not, it's essentially super raw, low tuned, blasting black metal with plenty of death metal mixed in. It tends to be savage, relentless, and a bit monotonous, but I enjoy much of what I've heard.
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I'm not sure if you'd be into it or not' date=' it's essentially super raw, low tuned, blasting black metal with plenty of death metal mixed in. It tends to be savage, relentless, and a bit monotonous, but I enjoy much of what I've heard.[/quote'] I'll check out Beherit since I seem to have heard a good bit about them. I tend to enjoy raw stuff so I'm sure I'll like at least some of it. But yeah, to clarify, Witchclan, the UK's "first" (according to it's founder...) black metal band, tags itself as Bestial Hell Metal, which is where I got confused.
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I'll check out Beherit since I seem to have heard a good bit about them. I tend to enjoy raw stuff so I'm sure I'll like at least some of it. But yeah, to clarify, Witchclan, the UK's "first" (according to it's founder...) black metal band, tags itself as Bestial Hell Metal, which is where I got confused.
I'm sure you would enjoy Beherit's Drawing Down the Moon, but that only partially fits the bill. The Oath of the Black Blood and their demo/early EP material is the most bestial, but it's also extremely sloppy and rough sounding. I dig it, but Drawing Down the Moon is my favorite from them.
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  • 4 months later...

Yeah its definately black metal(the early stuff). Venom also played a huge role in establishing black metal.

Of course they are not completely black metal but the early stages. Would you consider metallica death metal?

They are not, but they are one of the earliest thrash bands and death evolved from thrash later on in the 80s.

 

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Yeah its definately black metal(the early stuff). Venom also played a huge role in establishing black metal.

Of course they are not completely black metal but the early stages. Would you consider metallica death metal?

They are not, but they are one of the earliest thrash bands and death evolved from thrash later on in the 80s.

 

That's not entirely accurate. Venom was definitely black metal, any band who waved that banner after them did so because Venom showed them how. Taking them out of the equation means that you also have to remove Bathory, Hellhammer, Sodom, Bulldozer, and all of the other early black metal bands that were so because they directly followed in Venom's footsteps. Also, death metal did not just evolve out of thrash. Possessed did come from the Bay Area, but thrash was only one piece of the equation, as there was plenty of hardcore/crust punk, black metal, and doom involved in its genesis. So no, Metallica could not be called death metal under any circumstances. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
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i meant that the genres originate from other genres. Metallica and other heavy thrash bands paved the way for early death metal. Bathory is almost like possessed or death or other early death metal bands that paved the way

Well again, black metal was one of the larger influences upon death metal, but just as with Metallica, that does not make it death metal. Similarly, Swans played a big part in the birth of industrial metal, but calling them metal themselves is more than a little bit of a stretch. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk
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Similarly the NWOBHM was hugely influential on power metal but no one calls Iron Maiden or Saxon power metal. Metallica aren't death metal in the same way. Influence is not predicated upon originating a genre per se. Likewise the originators should not be precluded from a genre because that sound evolved. Venom, Bathory, and Hellhammer sound little like Immortal, Dissection, and Necromantia but all are still black metal.

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  • 6 years later...

As I have gotten older I have become much less tolerant of Bathory.  I am even considering selling my Hammerheart picture disc because I just cannot for the life of me stand Quorthon's vocals anymore.  They just sound amateur nowadays even though I had no real problem with them historically.  Ah well, grumpy old man strikes again.

 

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  • 1 month later...

I've only ever listened to Blood, Fire, Death and Hammerheart because those were the only ones that we could find on CD at my local record store back in the day. I always wanted to listen to the first three albums (Bathory, The Return..., and Under the Sign of the Black Mark) but could never find them available. I'm thinking about picking up all three of them on vinyl if I can find them.

Having said that, I have no problem accepting the first wave of Black Metal as Black Metal (even Mercyful Fate, who sounded the least like black metal but King Diamond had the look down pretty well). I understand that as genres and niches start, the music that starts them isn't going to eventually fit in with what that genre ends up becoming. I personally love early Slayer (Show No Mercy, Hell Awaits) and Mercyful Fate (Melissa, Don't Break the Oath) and I consider all of those albums to be "Early black metal albums) with bands that simply went in a different direction as time went on (particularly Slayer, who became thrash as that was what was big at the time). Are these albums black metal by today's standards? No, but they'll always be formative black metal to me and thus, I include them in my collection.

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