What Are You Listening To?

[JBaker]

Pantera- Far Beyond Driven

[Atrocity]

Carcass - Edge of Darkness

[JBaker]

It would make more sense to me if people dodged Burzum because the music was filled with content that listeners found offensive or contradictory to their own beliefs, but the music is more personal. Additionally, I find it strange that the lyrical topics discussed in many metal bands involve dark and horrendous topics like murder, war, violence, etc..., yet they get a pass because their anger and hatred isn't directed at a race. I also don't hear of many people distancing themselves from Megadeth for Dave's ultra-conservative fundamentalism bullshit, nor from Judas Priest because their drummer of much of the 80's was convicted of pedophilia. I don't believe a line needs to be drawn, as I take from music (or any other art form) what speaks to and benefits me, if I ruled out art based on superficial criteria, I feel that I would be missing the point of expression. I can see why some would want to make this distinction, but then if it is to be made, I believe it should be enforced wholly, as opposed to only ruling out certain things you disagree with while accepting others. As far as Darkthrone and Marduk go, there aren't any racial messages in their music, nor have any of the band members been convicted of murder. Darkthrone's famed Norse Arisk Black Metal message was later declared a publicity stunt by the band, and while Marduk uses WWII imagery and lyrics, they are not used in support of the Nazi Party or white supremacy messages. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

The dark topics of non-racist metal bands are generally tongue-in-cheek, delivered with a great deal of hyperbole, or are meant as symbolism. They don't often represent genuine hatred, and where the hatred is genuine, it's directed at people the artist doesn't like because they find them morally objectionable: not as a result of something beyond the person's control such as skin colour. Dave Mustaine hasn't killed anyone and, whilst his views are stupid and incredibly misguided, there isn't, to my knowledge (I'm not a Megadeth fan, remember), much in the way of outright hatred coming from his mouth: just stupidity. Moreover, the other members of the band don't share his views and have publicly distanced themselves from them in interviews. In honesty, if I was into Megadeth, Mustaine's idiocy would put a dampener on my enjoyment of his music. When I listen to an artist, I like to think I also appreciate where the art is coming from. If Megadeth's music went FFDP and had overtly Conservative lyrics, it would definitely limit my enjoyment of their music. And yeah, I know Marduk have defended their use of WWII imagery, and that's totally fine, but in the same interview I remember reading they wanted to *stop* immigration into Sweden and one of the dudes was proud to have had a grandfather who served in WWII fighting for the Nazis.

[Iceni]

Additionally' date=' I find it strange that the lyrical topics discussed in many metal bands involve dark and horrendous topics like murder, war, violence, etc..., yet they get a pass because their anger and hatred isn't directed at a race.[/quote'] This does irritate me immensely, especially since obviously religion doesn't get the same treatment (ironic, since most non-Caucasians tend to be religious). What I find ironic is that these groups think religion is brainwashing, and they aim to solve it by killing or driving out all of the believers instead of trying to change their minds. That would be akin to solving tyranny by committing genocide.

[FatherAlabaster]

@ JBaker - If that stops you from enjoying the music, that's fine. It's a totally personal thing. BAN is more open-minded than I am about it; I'm only starting to open up to more of Burzum's catalog, and Varg's ideology is one of the things that kept me from listening to it much before now. As BAN points out, whatever political views the band members might have aren't really being pushed in the lyrics. It's understandable that you wouldn't seek out someone's work if you're uncomfortable with their views. FWIW, I still have trouble with a lot of Christian metal because I disagree with the attitude and ideology. But listening to Cannibal Corpse hasn't turned me into a murderer, listening to Deicide hasn't turned me into a Satanist, and my love of medieval chants hasn't turned me into a Catholic. Listening to Burzum won't turn me into a bigot. It's not necessary to completely identify with someone in order to understand and appreciate their work.

[JBaker]

This does irritate me immensely' date=' especially since obviously religion doesn't get the same treatment (ironic, since most non-Caucasians tend to be religious). What I find ironic is that these groups think religion is brainwashing, and they aim to solve it by killing or driving out all of the believers instead of trying to change their minds. That would be akin to solving tyranny by committing genocide.[/quote'] I totally agree with your last point. The whole 'don't be a sheep; be your own person... by looking/dressing exactly like me and copying my beliefs to the nearest letter' is fucking ridiculous. And yeah, people shouldn't obviously be persecuted based on their personal religious beliefs. However, you do theoretically have choice over your religion, and whilst no-one should be persecuted because of the choices they make (so long as they're not harming anyone)- in which case it wouldn't be 'persecution' anyway, you have no choice over your race/ethnicity, and this does not generally shape your beliefs or ideology. It's more foolish to assume all black people have similar ideology than to assume all Christians have similar ideology (as silly as either of these assumptions are).

[Atrocity]

But listening to Cannibal Corpse hasn't turned me into a murderer' date=' listening to Deicide hasn't turned me into a Satanist, and my love of medieval chants hasn't turned me into a Catholic. Listening to Burzum won't turn me into a bigot. It's not necessary to completely identify with someone in order to understand and appreciate their work.[/quote'] That is true, but in the end I think it our own choice where we draw the line of how much bullshit we can take. For example, it the same thing if somebody is promoting satanism in their lyrics and if someone's promoting Christianity. They are "trying to make you like something". You chose if you want to listen to that or no. I can't listen to Christian bands for many reasons, one of them being that I'm allergic to "Jesus is our savior" lyrics, but if you put it in a non-aggressive way, where does lyrics can have different meaning when you are listening to the them, I'm ok with it. I also get bored with Satan is my master lyrics, but I have more tolerance maybe because I only hear it in music, there aren't people on the streets selling satanic bibles.

[JBaker]

@ JBaker - If that stops you from enjoying the music, that's fine. It's a totally personal thing. BAN is more open-minded than I am about it; I'm only starting to open up to more of Burzum's catalog, and Varg's ideology is one of the things that kept me from listening to it much before now. As BAN points out, whatever political views the band members might have aren't really being pushed in the lyrics. It's understandable that you wouldn't seek out someone's work if you're uncomfortable with their views. FWIW, I still have trouble with a lot of Christian metal because I disagree with the attitude and ideology. But listening to Cannibal Corpse hasn't turned me into a murderer, listening to Deicide hasn't turned me into a Satanist, and my love of medieval chants hasn't turned me into a Catholic. Listening to Burzum won't turn me into a bigot. It's not necessary to completely identify with someone in order to understand and appreciate their work.

I wouldn't say it exactly stops me seeking out such bands; I still do listen to them... I just can't help but feel a bit uneasy about it. This does change when the lyrics are actually pushing these beliefs, though (as if I needed another reason for my distaste towards Five Finger Death Punch!), and that's also where I stand on Christian music. If you take a band like The Chariot, there are religious undertones, but not a lot of preaching, and they deal with themes pretty common to secular metal/hardcore bands; as well as having a sense of humour about it. When you get into the seriously preachy Jesus-loving stuff, you generally lose me; not to mention the music is generally shitty.

[JBaker]

Gojira- L'Enfant Sauvage

[FatherAlabaster]

That is true' date=' but in the end I think it our own choice where we draw the line of how much bullshit we can take.[/quote'] NO! NEIN! You are havink NO CHOICE! Ze line vill be drawn vere I SAY! BLACK METAL IST KRIEG! If it ist nicht krieg, it ist VERBOTEN!

[FatherAlabaster]

Antediluvian - Through The Cervix Of Hawaah Finally checking this out. I think I'll have to come back to it later, I just find myself wishing I was listening to Abyssal or Mitochondrion instead. The band picture they have on bandcamp, with all the bones and stuff... fucking hilarious.

[Iceni]

'Believe' by Control Denied.

[FatherAlabaster]

Lo-Ruhamah - Shear-Jasub This is pretty good, Iceni. The clean parts are moody and melancholic, nice dynamic shifts, and melodically there are some some similarities to Furia. Good vocals too.

[FatherAlabaster]

Lo-Ruhamah - As We Walk this one's even better, some great riffs!

[SBird94]

I listened to Ingrate another 2 times last night, definitely hooked on this album and can't wait for the next one Black Harvest - Wake

[FatherAlabaster]

Talanas - Diaphora

I listened to Ingrate another 2 times last night, definitely hooked on this album and can't wait for the next one Black Harvest - Wake

Thank you, again! I'm glad you're enjoying it. I hope you dig the new one. I'm really proud of it, and I can't wait to hear what it sounds like once it's mastered. I should be getting it back this coming week.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Aura Noir - Caged Wrath Starting my morning with a Black Thrash Attack

[JBaker]

36 Crazyfists- Rest Inside The Flames

[Iceni]

'You Or Them' by Volbeat.

Talanas - Diaphora

Yes. Feel the controlled fury of posh dissonance.

[FatherAlabaster]

Yes. Feel the controlled fury of posh dissonance.

You can't have riffs like that, and vocals like that, without a vest like that.

[Iceni]

You can't have riffs like that' date=' and vocals like that, without a vest like that.[/quote'] Blame Akercocke... By the way, I'm very pleased to hear you like Lo-Ruhamah so far. Stylistically they seemed to fit your preferences. I thought Shear-Jasub was their weakest track so the fact you enjoyed it bodes well.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: What Are You Listening To?

The dark topics of non-racist metal bands are generally tongue-in-cheek, delivered with a great deal of hyperbole, or are meant as symbolism. They don't often represent genuine hatred, and where the hatred is genuine, it's directed at people the artist doesn't like because they find them morally objectionable: not as a result of something beyond the person's control such as skin colour. Dave Mustaine hasn't killed anyone and, whilst his views are stupid and incredibly misguided, there isn't, to my knowledge (I'm not a Megadeth fan, remember), much in the way of outright hatred coming from his mouth: just stupidity. Moreover, the other members of the band don't share his views and have publicly distanced themselves from them in interviews. In honesty, if I was into Megadeth, Mustaine's idiocy would put a dampener on my enjoyment of his music. When I listen to an artist, I like to think I also appreciate where the art is coming from. If Megadeth's music went FFDP and had overtly Conservative lyrics, it would definitely limit my enjoyment of their music. And yeah, I know Marduk have defended their use of WWII imagery, and that's totally fine, but in the same interview I remember reading they wanted to *stop* immigration into Sweden and one of the dudes was proud to have had a grandfather who served in WWII fighting for the Nazis.

No, dark lyrics are typically hyperbole of actual emotions, the hatred is no less real because the subject matter is made more grandiose and/or poetic. People feel hatred for different things, I can no more relate to a feminine hatred of chauvinism than hatred of someone for racial reasons, but I can relate to the hate and rage in general. Not being able to get behind the causes of certain artists doesn't make me like their music any less, because what they do outside of the music has nothing to do with their music. Often times, actions separate from the music can be used as a tool to sensationalize certain artists (Ozzy's drug use, Glen Benton's guest appearances on televangelist radio shows, church burnings, etc...), and you can feel any number of ways about those things, but what of that filters into the music? Possibly some simular motivations have been behind both (hatred, desperation, past experience, etc...), but I can no more hear Faust's homophobia in his drumming on In the Nightside Eclipse than I can hear Allen West's meth addiction in Obituary's songs. Music is all about speaking through sound on another level of communication, and you can receive whatever you want from that. Some would argue that nothing good could be gained from watching a horror movie or listening to black metal, neither has ever made me a killer, a Satanist, nor even a violent person, despite whatever may have been the superficial topic discussed. It all comes down to what you're comfortable with, I just believe that if you're going to draw a line in the sand and say that you don't want to listen to or support artists whose views outside their music you don't agree with, I say stay on that side of the line and don't be selective about your criteria. It's just odd to me that many bands talk about shitting on Jesus, eating babies, rape, murder, necrophilia, and whether as a metaphor or not, these topics are somehow seen as being on a lesser level than xenophobia, racism, or sexism. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[Iceni]

'Supremacy, Our Kind' by Pagan's Mind. How oddly appropriate given the discussion.

It's just odd to me that many bands talk about shitting on Jesus' date=' eating babies, rape, murder, necrophilia, and whether as a metaphor or not, these topics are somehow seen as being on a lesser level than xenophobia, racism, or sexism.[/quote'] Much pithier than mine, and I totally agree.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Motorhead - Stone Dead Forever

[Parker]

Burzum - Det Somn Engang Var