Extreme Vocals

[Parker]

This might be in the wrong forum, as there are aprx 885,458,845,545,588 forums on this sight, so mods please move this to the right place if nec. Anyway, both here and in the real world I often hear people complaining about extreme vocals, saying things like, "If I can't understand the words I don't like it." This is odd to me. Most C.D.s come with lyric sheets or, if they don't, you can usually look up the lyrics online. Simply read the lyrics along to the song a couple time and, ta da, you can understand the lyrics. Really, to those who insist on understandable lyrics, does this mean you never like songs sung in languages you don't know? What about opera? You're really shutting yourself out from a world of great music.

[FatherAlabaster]

I don't see that complaint very frequently, but it seems odd to me as well. I've always figured, you know, to each their own. I didn't care about understanding lyrics when I was younger, and I actually had a hard time picking them out in any music. I've started caring more about them in the past few years - both appreciating effective ones and getting irritated by lazy or poorly written ones. But extreme vocals have a lot of appeal for me as pure sound, and I love a ton of foreign language music. I think it's a matter of people getting used to a certain vocal style, and sometimes that takes willingness to listen to things that they don't immediately like. Expanding your taste takes work.

[ChainsawAkimbo]

Quite frankly, it´s usually just an easy argument made towards more extreme music, it has nothing to do with actually not understanding the lyrics. It´s just a convenient way to support an agenda.

[FatherAlabaster]

5 minutes ago, GrayscaleDawn said:

Quite frankly, it´s usually just an easy argument made towards more extreme music, it has nothing to do with actually not understanding the lyrics. It´s just a convenient way to support an agenda.

I don't think that's always the case, I've had too many conversations with people who just need a way into understanding the music. I've also found (just in my own experience) that death and black metal are accepted these days by a lot of people who don't really get into them - even if they aren't metalheads at all, they seem willing to check stuff out and able to enjoy it. I grew up with metal being maligned by nearly everyone I'd run into, so it's a nice change. Maybe it's a demographic shift?

[Parker]

41 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

I don't see that complaint very frequently, but it seems odd to me as well. I've always figured, you know, to each their own. I didn't care about understanding lyrics when I was younger, and I actually had a hard time picking them out in any music. I've started caring more about them in the past few years - both appreciating effective ones and getting irritated by lazy or poorly written ones. But extreme vocals have a lot of appeal for me as pure sound, and I love a ton of foreign language music. I think it's a matter of people getting used to a certain vocal style, and sometimes that takes willingness to listen to things that they don't immediately like. Expanding your taste takes work.

Certainly to each their own. I'm not complaining or trying to convince anyone of anything, just seeking to understand this point of view.

[ChainsawAkimbo]

55 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

I don't think that's always the case, I've had too many conversations with people who just need a way into understanding the music. I've also found (just in my own experience) that death and black metal are accepted these days by a lot of people who don't really get into them - even if they aren't metalheads at all, they seem willing to check stuff out and able to enjoy it. I grew up with metal being maligned by nearly everyone I'd run into, so it's a nice change. Maybe it's a demographic shift?

Yeah i grew up being a freak because i loved metal music too.. it´s just from personal experience.. every people who threw that comment at my face just hated metal and anything more extreme in general. I´m sure there are people who genuinely need to hear the message or story too. These days i just don´t even bother to discuss music that much with people who i know that just don´t understand what people get from extreme music. Nice to hear theres more open minded people around too. Open minded and Finland are two things that never really fit together well...

[deathstorm]

When some death vocals get to guttral with certain bands I usually  grab the cd open to the booklet to read the lyrics to what he is saying has anyone try that approach 

[MacabreEternal]

I had this debate a while ago on another forum.  To me lyrics aren't that important, I am far more interested in the arrangement and composition of the music yet vocal style is often the killer for me with a lot of bands.  Being honest, who listens to Death Metal for the lyrics?  The instrumentation and songwriting rules the roost there surely.  Of course there are people who do care for lyrics and all power to them as it would be a dull and lifeless musical world if we all were drawn to the same aspects of music.  It does cause a nice ripple of nostalgia when I open up a CD or pull a vinyl sleeve and find a lyrics sheet (although I am far more interested in pictures, stories/bio's to be honest).

A while back me and the girlfriend had a debate about our very different taste in music (although we do both enjoy aspects of classic rock) around how we are drawn to the expression of things.  The thing my gf enjoys in the 80's pop music she listens to in the main are the catchy choruses and the memorable lyrics she can sing along to.  That for me nailed why I love extreme music more, I was able to explain to her that the inaccessibility of music was my hook, that ability for an artist to straight out erupt and pummel me with what seems to others to be nothing more than a barrage of indiscernible noise is what draws me in.  Don't just put your pain into your lyrics, don't just display your emotion in words.  Let me hear and feel it in the notes that you play, in the riffs that you build and the percussion that you utilise.

 

[ChainsawAkimbo]

1 minute ago, MacabreEternal said:

Don't just put your pain into your lyrics, don't just display your emotion in words.  Let me hear and feel it in the notes that you play, in the riffs that you build and the percussion that you utilise.

Wow.. nicely put.  

[FatherAlabaster]

18 hours ago, MacabreEternal said:

I had this debate a while ago on another forum.  To me lyrics aren't that important, I am far more interested in the arrangement and composition of the music yet vocal style is often the killer for me with a lot of bands.  Being honest, who listens to Death Metal for the lyrics?  The instrumentation and songwriting rules the roost there surely.  Of course there are people who do care for lyrics and all power to them as it would be a dull and lifeless musical world if we all were drawn to the same aspects of music.  It does cause a nice ripple of nostalgia when I open up a CD or pull a vinyl sleeve and find a lyrics sheet (although I am far more interested in pictures, stories/bio's to be honest).

A while back me and the girlfriend had a debate about our very different taste in music (although we do both enjoy aspects of classic rock) around how we are drawn to the expression of things.  The thing my gf enjoys in the 80's pop music she listens to in the main are the catchy choruses and the memorable lyrics she can sing along to.  That for me nailed why I love extreme music more, I was able to explain to her that the inaccessibility of music was my hook, that ability for an artist to straight out erupt and pummel me with what seems to others to be nothing more than a barrage of indiscernible noise is what draws me in.  Don't just put your pain into your lyrics, don't just display your emotion in words.  Let me hear and feel it in the notes that you play, in the riffs that you build and the percussion that you utilise.

 

I tend to be the same - song structure, performances, and sound quality are the most important things for me, and yet small nuances of vocal style can make or break my enjoyment of a band. (Not saying that's a good thing, I'm working on it...) If a band has great lyrics and I can appreciate that dimension, great; if not, I don't pay much attention. However, like I said recently in a discussion with BAN, as I've written more of my own lyrics over the past few years, I've become more attuned to lyrics in general. I'm at kind of a weird place where I have to step back from the words in order to hear them for their purely sonic qualities.

My bottom line is that vocals are another instrument, and in terms of emotive content and tying a song together, they're potentially the most important. I get irritated when they're treated as an afterthought. What I've discovered in my own writing is that it's much easier for me to be convincing as a vocalist, to really give a song every ounce of passion I have, if I can believe in what I'm saying. Better lyrics make for better vocals. Another fun thing is working through a set of lyrics and having the words force me into new/previously unconsidered vocal patterns; it adds a bit of interest beyond just coming up with rhythmic patterns and tonal approaches that fit the music.

[Requiem]

It's probably no secret that I'm a strong advocate for lyrics. I think they're a very significant part of my musical experiences - I wouldn't argue more so than the actual music, which is obviously the whole point of, well, music - and the stories, sentiments and poetry found in good lyrics really helps the entire experience. 

A culinary analogy might be that music is the food, and lyrics are the wine. Each is fine alone, but mandatory together when fine dining. I'm a big fan of wine, by the way. 

I think my love for lyrics was born from two places. The first is the inevitable pre-internet era, where to listen to music largely meant sitting in my bedroom alone reading the lyrics in the liner notes of cassettes, then CDs, as the music played. There was no surfing the net, or listening to mp3s at the goddamn bus station. In this way I connected to those albums like I rarely do today. Also, I love literature and writing in general, so I'm drawn to the written word and find great value in it when done well.  

As to the actual point of the thread(!), I tend to find it small-minded when people complain that they don't like the vocals because they can't understand the words. My father has actually said this very thing to me. I'll point to the original poster's example of opera, or old church music like Gregorian chant. There is clearly no necessary correlation between understanding the sounds and enjoying the aural quality of the sounds. 

[Siderian]

As mentioned already, vocal style makes or breaks a band for me. The music could be perfection, but if the vocal style isn't my thing, I struggle to listen if I'm honest. Extreme vocals I treat almost as another instrument, lyrically I'm not that fussed, but the more inhuman the sound the better. The late, great Johnny Morrow of Iron Monkey being a perfect example, his vocals are just incomparable.

[FatherAlabaster]

Hell yeah, Iron Monkey was great. That dude's voice was sick. A good example of a musical experience where the lyrics don't matter...

[blaaacdoommmmfan]

For me what's important is the vocals being a good match for the music. So in sad sections I want to feel the pain,the anguish in the vocals.  Good elocution of vocals is not essential for me as for me the music taking me on a journey is the important part.Obviously I appreciate good elocution of lyrics if the vocals fit the music. Big fan of Harley anderson  from jonestown and Bruce Dickinson. They do such a great job and Anderson does fairly guttoral vocals too. It fits the music perfectly imo.