Are [insert band name here] metal?

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Are [insert band name here] metal?

Cheers for the comment - appreciate it. I'm glad that you agree with me about nu-metal not actually being metal...."Nu-metal" is more like 99% not metal, 1% metal - really exaggerated but done so to make my point". The hardest part when writing this post was, in my opinion, bands that have evolved or developed their sound. I am by no means a maggot, but I find it extremely difficult to say Slipknot are not metal despite their nu-metal elements in my opinion (in particular their later releases). I'm interested in what you mean by incorporating metal elements in a "bastardised way"? If I interpret that correctly (which I may not be), you are saying they have incorporated metal elements but have done so poorly. In my opinion, it still makes it metal, albeit metal I don't like. But yes regardless of whether it is metal or not (I am just interested from an academic point of view), power to those who like the music.

Slipknot have occasionally shown some death metal tendencies, but that does not make them death metal. At their core, they're using the same techniques as their nu-metal compatriots, despite "original" touches like superfluous members that just bang on trash cans and beer kegs. However, when they do show these tendencies, it's not only completely out of context, but done in a cheap and watered down way to try to merge more seamlessly with their tame musical palette. In other words, you can hear where a riff or two may have been inspired by Malevolent Creation, but is nothing Malevolent Creation would have played even at their most poppy moment. Sure, I would say that Slipknot aren't Korn clones and may have progressed past the origins of nu-metal, but not into anything that's more metal. I'm not opposed to metal bands using different techniques, extra percussion and a DJ might actually sound good in the right context, but once you strip away the masks, lyrics brimming with upper-middle class Hot Topic shopper angst, and all of those gimmicky and useless extra members, Slipknot's music really isn't anything to be impressed by. They use the same verse chorus verse structure as any other pop band, they alternate between clean singing and constipated screams utilizing hip-hop rhythms like many other nu-metal bands, and even at their most "vicious", their riffs are still watered down to the lowest common denominator with no depth or feeling. It's not that they aren't talented musicians, Joey's drumming on Ministry's Rio Grande Blood is pretty good, but their songwriting is about mass appeal, not personal expression. It's made to be appealing, so it's not exactly weird that people like it, but the music that tends to speak to me is not shallow, easy music for troubled teens, probably because I'm not one. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[forge]

I agree, I think they're borderline in some ways but not altogether metal.

[That Dude With The Shades]

Metalheads! This one is going to grind some gears....basically this post is my opinion of why the 10 bands below are "metal" or "not metal". This is purely my opinion so comments and discussion are encouraged. This post is part of the "Metal Basics" series on my blog but has been slightly abridged for this forum. It builds on my post "what the hell is metal anyway". Please note that there is some tongue and cheek in this article and it may help if you read "what the hell is metal anyway" before absolutely crucifying me in the comments Disclaimers and context I want to begin by saying that I do not subscribe to the whole "this isn't 'true' metal" way of thinking. If the song is metal, it's metal. If it's not metal, it's not metal. To use a much clichéd example - Metallica's first 5 albums are metal (yes, I consider the Black Album metal - which I discussed here). Load and Reload are not metal. That's it - clear cut. None of this "true metal" BS. You may also notice that many of the bands below could be considered "nu-metal". This is a debate for another day, but to me the genre of "nu-metal" deviates too significantly from "metal" that makes it not metal (despite having metal influences). Compare this to say "death metal" or "thrash metal" which are different stylings of metal, but nonetheless they adhere to 99% of metal elements. "Nu-metal" is more like 99% not metal, 1% metal - really exaggerated but done so to make my point. I will elaborate on this in my next Metal Basics post entitled "subgenres…does metal need them?" on another day. Let the debate begin (let's try keep the hate to a minimum yeah?)! 1) Is Justin Bieber Metal? Let's start off with an easy one. No (but the death growls, blast beats and technical guitar work do put it on the cusp of the metal genre). 2) Are Slipknot Metal? Ah, the band that "tr00" metalheads LOVE TO HATE. Personally, I don't get the hate. Maybe it's the gimmicky get up they have with the masks and uniforms, maybe it's because they use turntables or maybe because they can be considered mainstream and successful. For me, the use of non-metal elements does not automatically disqualify a band from being "metal" (unless it is totally overwhelming - e.g. 50 cent rapping over Sylosis riffs). It is the removal of certain of elements that makes a song not metal (again, my opinion only). So the use of turntables is fine for me. Of course, there are Slipknot songs which shy away from the metal sound (thinking Dead Memories), but many metal records have these songs for diversity and to break the record up so it is not just 100% balls to the wall. E.g. A Tout Le Monde off Cryptic Writings, The Hardest Part of Letting Go off Endgame, Nothing Else Matters off The Black Album. Metal bands can write non-metal songs. Whether you hate them or love them (are you a maggot?), in my opinion, Slipknot are METAL and there are no two ways about it. 3) Are Korn Metal? On balance, I don't think Korn should be considered Metal, which actually aligns with frontman Jonathan Davis' own thoughts. You can't deny that they have metal elements, such as downtuned guitars, occasional harsh vocals and some really really mean breakdowns (Freak On a Leash). But when you look at Korn holistically, they deviate from Metal stylings more than adhering to it. Not METAL but some cool tunes. 4) Are P.O.D metal? Slightly easier decision than Korn for me because P.O.D doesn't really make me want to bang my head or get my blood pumping (whilst not necessarily fatal to P.O.D being metal, it does make it an uphill battle). Having said that, they do have heavy distorted guitars, but the vocals are not really aggressive enough. Now of course Power Metal bands don't have aggressive vocals, and nor does Belladonna era Anthrax....but these bands possess other elements that kick them back into the metal realm. P.O.D doesn't have the same elements. Not METAL, but some cool tunes. 5) Are Avenged Sevenfold metal? I think they just slip into the metal genre for me. Although they don't do it for me personally, they do possess some pretty metal elements in terms of their instruments. The only thing potentially questionable are the vocals - but not entirely fatal to A7X being considered metal in my books. METAL (but closer to being not metal than being really metal). 6) Are Linkin Park metal? OK, I have no shame at all in saying this on a metal forum, but I actually really enjoy Hybrid Theory and Meteora (their first two albums). It does get me pumping and banging my head - think One Step Closer (ok, not in the same way I would to say... Cannibal Corpse). They have metal elements like the distorted guitars etc and the occasional screams from Chester (but then again Linkin Park mostly rap and do clean singing) but they don't really have solos, double kicks etc. My conclusion? Not metal but really heavy rock with rap/hip hop influences (their most recent releases is more just radio rock imo). 7) Are System of A Down metal? For me, SOAD are not metal but they have really AMAZING vocals and some memorable guitar riffs. I like to describe them as having some metal-esque riffs (and screams) in non metal songs, such as in BYOB or Chop Suey. Yeah you can bang your head to some songs, they have some heavy riffs, but on the whole SOAD songs do not demonstrate metal elements on a consistent enough basis to fairly call it metal. Neither do I consider it hard rock either.....as Yoda would say, "an anomaly, System of a Down, is". 8) Are Godsmack metal? On a knife edge between Hard Rock and Heavy Metal - just tipping towards metal though. It's not particularly heavy, but metal does not necessarily need to be super heavy. They have some pretty grooving riffs though! In my opinion, Godsmack is metal that can played on the radio and non metalheads wouldn't go "OMG WHAT IS THAT?". Metal in my books, even if just by a whisker \m/ 9) Are Disturbed metal? Pretty similar vein to Godsmack really. They started off not really as a metal band (The Sickness) but have developed their "metal" sound throughout their 5 CD discography. Yep, definitely metal, but not too heavy. Disturbed is metal that can played on the radio and non metalheads wouldn't go "OMG WHAT IS THAT?" 10) Is Rob Zombie metal? Metal but some songs drift into the hard rock category and some electro elements. Not all that contentious in my opinion - overall definitely METAL. 11) Are Rammstein metal? Again, not all that contentious in my opinion despite many songs only meeting Step Two in my opinion. Rammstein is a strange one but I believe it would be incorrect to to call them not metal. Sorry this is a rather weak argument but the "feel and vibe" overall says metal to me. Like I alluded to above in Slipknot, many metal bands write ballads or non metal songs in their CDs. Rammstein just does more "ballads" or non metal songs than other metal bands do. Honourable Mentions Cannibal Corpse, Testament and At The Gates are definitely pop. Anyone who says otherwise is tonedeaf Let me know your thoughts metalheads...I'm bound to have pissed someone off with this post! \m/ecca

Justin Bieber: Slipknot: They're metal, just not very good metal. Korn: It depends heavily on the song; they vacillate between nu metal and grungy rap rock. POD: Again, depends on the song. Sometimes it's nu metal, sometimes rap rock, sometimes reggae, sometimes something else entirely. Avenged Sevenfold: Metal, but I'm not a fan. Linkin Park: Mostly no. System of a Down: Yes Godsmack: Like you said, on the cusp between metal and hard rock. Disturbed: Yes Rob Zombie: Mostly yes, though he experiments with other genres sometimes. White Zombie was most definitely metal. Rammstein: Yes; industrial metal.

Cannibal Corpse, Testament and At The Gates are definitely pop.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Are [insert band name here] metal? You must need a great deal less metal in the sonic equation to give the band a break than I do, none of that stuff even comes close AFAIC. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[That Dude With The Shades]

As long as the guitars have the right tuning and are the most prominent part of the song (not buried beneath loads of non-rock instruments, or sampled here and there), it's metal or metal-based, no matter how bad it is

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Are [insert band name here] metal? Nah, rock is guitar driven too, as is most punk, that doesn't make it metal. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[That Dude With The Shades]

It's not just the instruments themselves, it's the tuning. Metal guitar has a specific tuning, and if it's used, then it's metal.

[Mecca]

Slipknot have occasionally shown some death metal tendencies, but that does not make them death metal. At their core, they're using the same techniques as their nu-metal compatriots, despite "original" touches like superfluous members that just bang on trash cans and beer kegs. However, when they do show these tendencies, it's not only completely out of context, but done in a cheap and watered down way to try to merge more seamlessly with their tame musical palette. In other words, you can hear where a riff or two may have been inspired by Malevolent Creation, but is nothing Malevolent Creation would have played even at their most poppy moment. Sure, I would say that Slipknot aren't Korn clones and may have progressed past the origins of nu-metal, but not into anything that's more metal. I'm not opposed to metal bands using different techniques, extra percussion and a DJ might actually sound good in the right context, but once you strip away the masks, lyrics brimming with upper-middle class Hot Topic shopper angst, and all of those gimmicky and useless extra members, Slipknot's music really isn't anything to be impressed by. They use the same verse chorus verse structure as any other pop band, they alternate between clean singing and constipated screams utilizing hip-hop rhythms like many other nu-metal bands, and even at their most "vicious", their riffs are still watered down to the lowest common denominator with no depth or feeling. It's not that they aren't talented musicians, Joey's drumming on Ministry's Rio Grande Blood is pretty good, but their songwriting is about mass appeal, not personal expression. It's made to be appealing, so it's not exactly weird that people like it, but the music that tends to speak to me is not shallow, easy music for troubled teens, probably because I'm not one. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

Well I can definitely conclude that you do not like Slipknot haha. I agree that they have unnecessary members and that the whole get up is very gimmicky. I think where I disagree with you is where you say they have progressed pass nu metal but not into anything more metal. My interpretation of your comment is that even if Slipknot are metal, it's really really really shit metal with shit lyrics, shit song structure and music with no feeling...so it's so bad to the point it's not metal?

[Mecca]

Justin Bieber: Slipknot: They're metal, just not very good metal. Korn: It depends heavily on the song; they vacillate between nu metal and grungy rap rock. POD: Again, depends on the song. Sometimes it's nu metal, sometimes rap rock, sometimes reggae, sometimes something else entirely. Avenged Sevenfold: Metal, but I'm not a fan. Linkin Park: Mostly no. System of a Down: Yes Godsmack: Like you said, on the cusp between metal and hard rock. Disturbed: Yes Rob Zombie: Mostly yes, though he experiments with other genres sometimes. White Zombie was most definitely metal. Rammstein: Yes; industrial metal.

OMG - someone who actually largely agrees with me haha. Thanks for the comment mate - what kind of bands you into?

[Mecca]

You must need a great deal less metal in the sonic equation to give the band a break than I do, none of that stuff even comes close AFAIC. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

I like this comment - maybe the source of our different opinions is what we respectively consider to be required in the "sonic equation" (nice phrase by the way) for metal. Maybe my threshold is lower than yours. I write about my "sonic equation" here - I'd be stoked if you could give me your thoughts too on what you consider metal!

[Mecca]

As long as the guitars have the right tuning and are the most prominent part of the song (not buried beneath loads of non-rock instruments' date=' or sampled here and there), it's metal or metal-based, no matter how bad it is[/quote'] I think you should read my post about what the hell is metal anyway and let me know your thoughts!

[Mecca]

It's not just the instruments themselves' date=' it's the tuning. Metal guitar has a specific tuning, and if it's used, then it's metal.[/quote'] Personally I think it has more to do with tuning e.g. Sylosis are in E Standard, Machine Head are in Dropped B/Standard C, Lamb Of God are in Dropped D or Dropped C# BUT tuning does have a part to play - just not fully determinative on its own (imo)

[Metallisydän]

What forge said haha What are your thoughts anyway? Agree/disagree with me? Interested to hear what people think...

Oh, okei. It's nice when someone asks you for opinion haha Weeell... My answers would be: 01 - Justin Bieber: NO. Why does that child appear everywhere? No, no way. 02 - Slipknot: YES. Yes, of course. What’s with them? I do not understand why that irrational hate… People have fun telling it’s shit and stupid things like that instead of just disliking. That’s bad… 03 - Korn: … Actually I haven’t heard enough of them. I just know a song —called Did my time, I think—, and it was… strange. I don’t know, maybe it’s Nu-Metal, maybe not. I never understood the meaning of Nu-Metal at all. 04 - POD: … Oh, okei, here I show again the little I know… I don’t know this band, and what’s what they do… A blank answer, then. 05 - Avenged Sevenfold: NO. Uh… I’m quite an asshole, am I not? Again, I’ve heard just a couple of songs. I really like a song from them —A little piece of heaven—, ‘cause I find it pretty funny, but it doesn’t sound metal… not completely. Could be worse, but… 06 - Linkin Park: NO. I haven’t listened a lot to these guys ‘cause, actually, what I heard from them wasn’t nice for me. I don’t like them, and I don’t think they’re metal… not completely, again. They could be metal without me liking them, but it’s not the case, I think… 07 - System of a Down: YES. Most of people will hate me, but they sound pretty metal for me. I’ve always considered them as “Alternative Metal”, but now I read all the time that they’re not metal. I don’t know, maybe they’re not metal —I may be wrong, I’m not an expert, for sure—, but they’re, at least, Alternative rock with some metal stuff. 08 - Godsmack: … Oh, okei, aren’t you getting tired of my “I don’t fucking know anything about these guys” answers? I’m starting to feel like a huge asshole, seriously. 09 - Disturbed: YES. Hrmmm… What I heard from them —not a lot, but something more than others— sounded pretty metal to me. A bit strange, but metal nonetheless. 10 - Rob Zombie: …Yes? I haven’t heard much stuff from him. Okei, I’m stupid! 8D Whatever, what I heard sounded more or less metal. Soundless, emotionless, commercial, but sounded almost metal. 11 - Rammstein: YES. I think it’s Industrial Metal or how the heck it is called. I think it’s pretty obvious. I’ve listened to a ton of songs from them.

[The Strategos]

O.K. 1. Beiber: No. I don't get why everyone picks on him specifically though. I mean, sure, he's a bit of a smeghead and his music is beyond horrible but surely there are others out there just as bad? Anyway, I can't stand him and he sure isn't metal. 2. Slipknot. Yes. They are aggressive, solo-playing, heavy-riffers. Probably not the world's best metal, though, I'll admit. 3. Korn. Yes. I only like a few of their songs but I'd still call 'em metal. 4. P.O.D. Never heard of them, no idea ! 5. Avenged Sevenfold. No. I used to think that they were but in all honest, bar an arguable couple of songs, they are rock. 6. Linkin Park. Used to be. In the glory days I would say absolutely. However, they are now definately rock. 7. System of a Down. Don't know anything about them. 8. Godsmack. Yes. How can Godsmack not be considered metal! 9. Disturbed. Yes. One of my favourite bands, though as I remember they themselves don't really care about the title and tend to think of themselves more in terms of Hard Rock. I call 'em metal! 10. Rob Zombie. Dunno him! 11. Rammstein. Yes. I haven't heard a lot but I know it's metal.

[Loucifer]

I just signed up to this forum today and I thought 'ok, so it's another metal forum', but then I noticed this board - I sense I will have fun here. Like pretty much everyone else here, it doesn't matter if I like a band or not for them to be 'metal'. I can quite happily subscribe to the idea that Slipknot are metal, but - bar a handful of tracks - I wouldn't class myself as a fan. It's interesting that there's a large focus on Nu Metal in this thread. It's a genre that divides a lot of opinion and I don't really think that it actually describes any particular kind of music. For example, at one time or another Slipknot, Disturbed and Staind have all been slapped with the Nu Metal tag. However, I don't necessarily think those bands sound alike. Yes, at times they have similar elements, but the same could be said for any two bands. So, anyway, to go through the list: 1. Bieber - Yes, of course... Don't panic, I'm kidding. 2. Slipknot - Yes. Not my kind of thing, but I'd say they were metal. 3. Korn - Some of their stuff may be, but they're most recent output definitely isn't. 4. P.O.D. - I've only heard two songs, so I really can't comment. 5. Avenged Sevenfold - Yes. 6. Linkin Park - For me, I'd say these guys were Hard Rock with electronic and Hip Hop elements. There's nothing wrong with that (I thought the first album was brilliant), but I wouldn't class it as Metal. 7. System of a Down - Some songs, certainly. 8. Godsmack - I haven't heard enough of their stuff to comment. In my head they've always been a Hard Rock band... but, like I said, I really can't comment. 9. Disturbed - See my comment for Godsmack. 10. Rob Zombie - Mostly, but with Industrial and Rock elements thrown in for good measure. 11. Rammstein - Not a band I listen to and I haven't liked what I've heard. But, I really can't comment on genre. Ok, here's another question for you... Atmospheric Black Metal - How atmospheric does it need to get before it ceases to be Black Metal?

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Are [insert band name here] metal? As far as tuning goes, it doesn't really mean a thing. Some metal bands, like Vektor, actually tune up to F. Others tune down quite a ways, bands like Meshuggah and Ihsahn are using 8 string guitars which would be tuned to G, if they're not tuned lower. Lots of musicians playing all kinds of music use different tunings, many jazz musicians tune to D, as do many death metal bands, and Led Zeppelin were even playing in C# on some songs like Moby Dick. Tuning doesn't have anything to do with genre, thrash metal bands played in E just like pop rock bands. You guys all know by now that I don't like nu-metal and don't consider it metal. I've also said that it doesn't make a difference if you like it or not, your ears are not mine, how music is perceived is totally subjective. I'm confused as to why more and more posts keep trying to convince me otherwise. This is not an irrational hatred, the music sounds like crap to me, it actively offends my ears. Making comments about its supposed "originality" or "metalness" will not change how terrible it sounds to me. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[Mecca]

Oh' date=' okei. It's nice when someone asks you for opinion haha Weeell... My answers would be:[b'] 01 - Justin Bieber: NO. Why does that child appear everywhere? No, no way. 02 - Slipknot: YES. Yes, of course. What’s with them? I do not understand why that irrational hate… People have fun telling it’s shit and stupid things like that instead of just disliking. That’s bad… 03 - Korn: … Actually I haven’t heard enough of them. I just know a song —called Did my time, I think—, and it was… strange. I don’t know, maybe it’s Nu-Metal, maybe not. I never understood the meaning of Nu-Metal at all. 04 - POD: … Oh, okei, here I show again the little I know… I don’t know this band, and what’s what they do… A blank answer, then. 05 - Avenged Sevenfold: NO. Uh… I’m quite an asshole, am I not? Again, I’ve heard just a couple of songs. I really like a song from them —A little piece of heaven—, ‘cause I find it pretty funny, but it doesn’t sound metal… not completely. Could be worse, but… 06 - Linkin Park: NO. I haven’t listened a lot to these guys ‘cause, actually, what I heard from them wasn’t nice for me. I don’t like them, and I don’t think they’re metal… not completely, again. They could be metal without me liking them, but it’s not the case, I think… 07 - System of a Down: YES. Most of people will hate me, but they sound pretty metal for me. I’ve always considered them as “Alternative Metal”, but now I read all the time that they’re not metal. I don’t know, maybe they’re not metal —I may be wrong, I’m not an expert, for sure—, but they’re, at least, Alternative rock with some metal stuff. 08 - Godsmack: … Oh, okei, aren’t you getting tired of my “I don’t fucking know anything about these guys” answers? I’m starting to feel like a huge asshole, seriously. 09 - Disturbed: YES. Hrmmm… What I heard from them —not a lot, but something more than others— sounded pretty metal to me. A bit strange, but metal nonetheless. 10 - Rob Zombie: …Yes? I haven’t heard much stuff from him. Okei, I’m stupid! 8D Whatever, what I heard sounded more or less metal. Soundless, emotionless, commercial, but sounded almost metal. 11 - Rammstein: YES. I think it’s Industrial Metal or how the heck it is called. I think it’s pretty obvious. I’ve listened to a ton of songs from them.

Thanks for sharing man! I always like to hear what others think, especially if they disagree (makes me critically evaluate my own position to see if I hold a defendable argument). It doesn’t matter that you don’t know some of the bands too! I know hardly any of the bands people mention here but it’s a chance to be introduced to something new.

• Justin Bieber – definitely metal haha!

• Slipknot gets a large amount of hate (unfairly imo).
• Korn - I might write a post about nu-metal……
• SOAD – you don’t need to be an expert to have an opinion! I know a lot of people who agree with you (just not me lol)
• Rammstein - I think it’s pretty obvious too but a lot of people disagree with you and me!

Thanks again Metallisydan!

[Mecca]

As far as tuning goes, it doesn't really mean a thing. Some metal bands, like Vektor, actually tune up to F. Others tune down quite a ways, bands like Meshuggah and Ihsahn are using 8 string guitars which would be tuned to G, if they're not tuned lower. Lots of musicians playing all kinds of music use different tunings, many jazz musicians tune to D, as do many death metal bands, and Led Zeppelin were even playing in C# on some songs like Moby Dick. Tuning doesn't have anything to do with genre, thrash metal bands played in E just like pop rock bands. You guys all know by now that I don't like nu-metal and don't consider it metal. I've also said that it doesn't make a difference if you like it or not, your ears are not mine, how music is perceived is totally subjective. I'm confused as to why more and more posts keep trying to convince me otherwise. This is not an irrational hatred, the music sounds like crap to me, it actively offends my ears. Making comments about its supposed "originality" or "metalness" will not change how terrible it sounds to me. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

100% agree re tuning and that nu-metal is not metal. It was never my intention to try "convince" anyone to like the bands because, like you said, whether or not the music is enjoyable is totally subjective. I was't referring to you when talking about the hate.....and even if you do you have based it on a foundation of reasoning. I knew this post would grind gears though becasue I specifically selected bands which I considered very contentious regarding whether they are metal or not. Cheers \m/ecca

[Mecca]

O.K. 1. Beiber: No. I don't get why everyone picks on him specifically though. I mean, sure, he's a bit of a smeghead and his music is beyond horrible but surely there are others out there just as bad? Anyway, I can't stand him and he sure isn't metal. 2. Slipknot. Yes. They are aggressive, solo-playing, heavy-riffers. Probably not the world's best metal, though, I'll admit. 3. Korn. Yes. I only like a few of their songs but I'd still call 'em metal. 4. P.O.D. Never heard of them, no idea ! 5. Avenged Sevenfold. No. I used to think that they were but in all honest, bar an arguable couple of songs, they are rock. 6. Linkin Park. Used to be. In the glory days I would say absolutely. However, they are now definately rock. 7. System of a Down. Don't know anything about them. 8. Godsmack. Yes. How can Godsmack not be considered metal! 9. Disturbed. Yes. One of my favourite bands, though as I remember they themselves don't really care about the title and tend to think of themselves more in terms of Hard Rock. I call 'em metal! 10. Rob Zombie. Dunno him! 11. Rammstein. Yes. I haven't heard a lot but I know it's metal.

Hey Strategos! Beiber – yeah easy target without me having to think haha. Interesting comments too – I consider that you have a lower threshold for what is considered metal when compared to most members of this forum. Thanks for the comment mate J

[Mecca]

I just signed up to this forum today and I thought 'ok, so it's another metal forum', but then I noticed this board - I sense I will have fun here. Like pretty much everyone else here, it doesn't matter if I like a band or not for them to be 'metal'. I can quite happily subscribe to the idea that Slipknot are metal, but - bar a handful of tracks - I wouldn't class myself as a fan. It's interesting that there's a large focus on Nu Metal in this thread. It's a genre that divides a lot of opinion and I don't really think that it actually describes any particular kind of music. For example, at one time or another Slipknot, Disturbed and Staind have all been slapped with the Nu Metal tag. However, I don't necessarily think those bands sound alike. Yes, at times they have similar elements, but the same could be said for any two bands. So, anyway, to go through the list: 1. Bieber - Yes, of course... Don't panic, I'm kidding. 2. Slipknot - Yes. Not my kind of thing, but I'd say they were metal. 3. Korn - Some of their stuff may be, but they're most recent output definitely isn't. 4. P.O.D. - I've only heard two songs, so I really can't comment. 5. Avenged Sevenfold - Yes. 6. Linkin Park - For me, I'd say these guys were Hard Rock with electronic and Hip Hop elements. There's nothing wrong with that (I thought the first album was brilliant), but I wouldn't class it as Metal. 7. System of a Down - Some songs, certainly. 8. Godsmack - I haven't heard enough of their stuff to comment. In my head they've always been a Hard Rock band... but, like I said, I really can't comment. 9. Disturbed - See my comment for Godsmack. 10. Rob Zombie - Mostly, but with Industrial and Rock elements thrown in for good measure. 11. Rammstein - Not a band I listen to and I haven't liked what I've heard. But, I really can't comment on genre. Ok, here's another question for you... Atmospheric Black Metal - How atmospheric does it need to get before it ceases to be Black Metal?

Welcome Loucifer! I'm pretty new here too Cheers for the comment - I like how you say that a song doesn't need to be "metal" for you to like it, I gather that many members of this forum actually listen to lots of non metal too (me included). I guess what you say about the nu metal tag could apply to any sub genre - eg. everyone would agree that Metallica and Slayer are thrash metal but they really couldn't sound any further apart! Your question about Black Metal is a whole other can of worms that I don't feel qualified to comment on... my Black metal catalogue is pretty lacking! Maybe go ahead and start a thread about it! \m/ecca

[Loucifer]

Hi Mecca - thanks for the reply! I find the more I think about this kind of thing - the more my head wants to explode! What is metal? What's the meaning of life? Who am I? Why am I here?

[Dj Anubis]

1. Bieber - Certainly not. 2. Slipknot 3. Korn 4. P.O.D. 5. Avenged Sevenfold - Yes (Part of the nu-metal genre) 6. Linkin Park - Outside of a couple songs on the first album not really. Lou pretty much nailed it as more rock oriented. 7. System of a Down 8. Godsmack 9. Disturbed - Again, more nu-metal but yes part of the genre. 10. Rob Zombie- Horror rock/metal (for me i just throw him in with the rest of the nu-metal bands) 11. Rammstein - Industrial rock/metal As Blut pointed out, its all subjective. I know i used to frequent the metal archives forum and browse through their catalog of bands and they classify some bands as metal that arent (Rush) and others that i felt that should be but are not. Its all just upon one's interpretation.

[That Dude With The Shades]

I don't see Godsmack is nu-metal. Disturbed has some nu-metal stuff in their very beginning (and even there, it wasn't much), but Godsmack is pretty much like Metallica's Load style of hard rock and metal.

[Dj Anubis]

Not for me, when i listen to the first 3 albums (especially the first) they have a lot of the signature breakdowns that most nu-metal bands use. But, like i said people will view it differently than others.

[BlutAusNerd]

I don't see Godsmack is nu-metal. Disturbed has some nu-metal stuff in their very beginning (and even there' date=' it wasn't much), but Godsmack is pretty much like Metallica's Load style of hard rock and metal.[/quote'] Maybe more of a nu-metal/grunge hybrid, as some of the riffs remind me of Alice in Chains, but the groovy, chuggy passages and the more aggressive vocals definitely align more with nu-metal.