Femininity and Sexuality in Metal

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Sexuality ithis may sound a bit harsh, but when girls are so skinny out of insecurity or whatever I think it's disgusting, women are NOT meant to look like that, Infact Lucy got called fat alot and she is definetly not fat, she is what women are meant to be, curvy not fucking anorexic does this look fuckin fat to you?

[Iceni]

I think that the whole obsession with being this started when people were going crazy over health concerns. However' date=' there is a very distinct difference between being healthy and being able to see your rib cage.[/quote'] I couldn't even feel attracted to a woman with a prominent ribcage. Chances are I would feel sorry for her, give her a hamburger and tell her to go home. If you're going to those lengths to be alluring then you've clearly exceeded the zenith of beauty and gone down the wrong end of its parabolic curve (you can plot beauty using a curve. How appropriate). If said woman is willing to be that thin she really ought to be running marathons instead of trying to play seductress. People will respect her more for it.

[BlutAusNerd]

I couldn't even feel attracted to someone with a prominent ribcage. Chances are I would feel sorry for them, give them a hamburger and tell them to go home. If you're going to those lengths to be alluring then you've clearly exceeded the zenith of beauty and gone down the wrong end of its parabolic curve (you can plot beauty using a curve. How appropriate). If said woman is willing to be that thin she really ought to be running marathons instead of trying to play seductress. People will respect her more for it. You will literally take ANY opportunity to post this woman, won't you?

Absolutely, everybody eats, and I'm not sure why women feel like excluding themselves from this would somehow make them more attractive. My wife was a shy eater when I met her, never wanting to eat in front of me, but I told her that if I'm going to take her out to dinner, I would prefer if she would eat it. She got over it pretty quickly and realized that eating being attractive or unattractive should not even be considered, that's like being worried about breathing incorrectly in front of a potential mate. What exactly is attractive about being unhealthy and killing yourself slowly?

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

You will literally take ANY opportunity to post this woman' date=' won't you? [/quote'] heheheh, just a lil' favourite of mine, (see avatar, as if you haven't already noticed) XD

[BlutAusNerd]

heheheh' date=' just a lil' favourite of mine, (see avatar, as if you haven't already noticed) XD[/quote'] There is not an ounce of mystery or subtlety to you Dave, and there's something to be said about that.

[RelentlessOblivion]

well BAN in the words of Oscar Wilde "be yourself, everybody else is taken" and no one will ever say Dave isn't being himself

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

There is not an ounce of mystery or subtlety to you Dave' date=' and there's something to be said about that.[/quote']

[Iceni]

Hahahaha oh Iceni you funny guy XD

See? Even Captain Buzzkill can be funny sometimes. Admittedly, I always had a problem with the maxim 'be yourself'. The main problem, of course, is that I am not an awesome person. I am a highly flawed individual with bad habits that need to be fixed. 'Be yourself' is often, in my opinion, a somewhat misguided imperative to embrace your good attributes and sanctify your bad ones under the aegis of selfhood. The point is, you are you, but you can be better. Nobody's perfect, but that's no reason to let that result in stagnation.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

You sound alright to me Iceknee, but even if you aren't you are still pretty wise lol

[RelentlessOblivion]

yep even the Iceman of Metal Forum can be warm and fuzzy sometimes

[Iceni]

You sound alright to me Iceknee' date=' but even if you aren't you are still pretty wise lol[/quote'] I like murph's better. It's... ...cooler.

[RelentlessOblivion]

hey I'm Australian, giving great nicknames is what we're good at

[BlutAusNerd]

See? Even Captain Buzzkill can be funny sometimes. Admittedly, I always had a problem with the maxim 'be yourself'. The main problem, of course, is that I am not an awesome person. I am a highly flawed individual with bad habits that need to be fixed. 'Be yourself' is often, in my opinion, a somewhat misguided imperative to embrace your good attributes and sanctify your bad ones under the aegis of selfhood. The point is, you are you, but you can be better. Nobody's perfect, but that's no reason to let that result in stagnation.

I still believe in embracing what makes you different, even the bad things. It's not an excuse for them, nor does it mean you need to stagnate and not progress, but we can't really change who we are at the core. We can make improvements, strengthening good attributes and diminishing weaker ones, but it's likely that our base functions, or at least the iniquities and gifts that motivate them, will probably never change.

[Iceni]

I still believe in embracing what makes you different' date=' even the bad things. It's not an excuse for them, nor does it mean you need to stagnate and not progress, but we can't really change who we are at the core. We can make improvements, strengthening good attributes and diminishing weaker ones, but it's likely that our base functions, or at least the iniquities and gifts that motivate them, will probably never change.[/quote'] Sure, but this did sort of strike a chord with me. Especially in Epica's songs (when they're not singing about saving the earth or becoming one with nature's flow) they tend to do an awful lot of lyrics about being yourself and being OK with what you are. The nuance you present here is sorely lacking in a lot of other songs, even metal songs.

[deathstorm]

i remember watching a youtube video of a jerry springer episode with peter steele may he rest in peace about guys in bands having sex with underaged groupies i wonder if anyone remember that episode

[frost]

i remember watching a youtube video of a jerry springer episode with peter steele may he rest in peace about guys in bands having sex with underaged groupies i wonder if anyone remember that episode

I've never seen that, but I know that kind of thing happens a lot. One of my friends was hit on by Marilyn Manson's drummer when she was still a minor, and apparently he has a reputation for sleeping with young groupies (14 year olds), and only "aryan" women. What a douche. Not to mention that guitarist from static x who went to jail for stachetory rape.

[RelentlessOblivion]

statutory (sorry studying law I'm inclined to correct these things) ok I think we've covered this pretty well so what about another controversial topic: prostitution what do we think? if a woman wants to sell herself voluntarily should she be allowed to?

[frost]

statutory (sorry studying law I'm inclined to correct these things) ok I think we've covered this pretty well so what about another controversial topic: prostitution what do we think? if a woman wants to sell herself voluntarily should she be allowed to?

I thought I may have spelled it wrong I think women and men should be able to be prostitutes if they want to. In Australia it is legal so long as it's in a brothel, so it can be taxed. It's not something I'd choose to do, but I don't see a problem with it.

[Scullicon]

Sweden has strange laws about this, its legal to sell so both women and men are allowed to. But its illegal to buy those kind of favors.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Actually yeah that is weird. In South Australia it's actually entirely illegal but the penalties for the buyer are more severe then for the seller. I know in Germany it's legal but heavily taxed. I personally see no problem provided the individuals selling themselves are doing so voluntarily, I should stress that by voluntarily I mean not because it feeds a drug habit, or because the individual is poor and unskilled so can't find other work that could sustain them but that the individual freely chooses to be a prostitute, and in a safe environment. However where it is problematic is where people are forced into the trade through threats of violence or through human trafficking rings and so on.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Sexuality

Actually yeah that is weird. In South Australia it's actually entirely illegal but the penalties for the buyer are more severe then for the seller. I know in Germany it's legal but heavily taxed. I personally see no problem provided the individuals selling themselves are doing so voluntarily, I should stress that by voluntarily I mean not because it feeds a drug habit, or because the individual is poor and unskilled so can't find other work that could sustain them but that the individual freely chooses to be a prostitute, and in a safe environment. However where it is problematic is where people are forced into the trade through threats of violence or through human trafficking rings and so on.

I disagree regarding your comment about a drug habit or being otherwise unskilled. Not only can both of those things be overcome, but they are both a choice, you can quit doing drugs, just as you could go to school or get training for a better paying profession. In addition, it makes more sense to me to have a junkie pay for their habit through prostitution than through theft. Another way to look at it is that employment is trading your time, freedom, and/or dignity for payment, whatever is desired by the person giving you that money. It seems like more socially deplorable acts can net you better pay with less work. Panhandling, for instance, could be seen as a "job" in this way. No work is involved, but time and shame invested will get you paid eventually. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[RelentlessOblivion]

well yes except that it is virtually impossible for a drug addict to break the shackles of addiction, Dave Mustaine failed at least sixteen times, addiction is more like a mental illness then a choice.

[Iceni]

I disagree regarding your comment about a drug habit or being otherwise unskilled. Not only can both of those things be overcome' date=' but they are both a choice, you can quit doing drugs, just as you could go to school or get training for a better paying profession.[/quote'] I got a lot of guff for suggesting that drug addiction was a choice - someone pointed out to me that sometimes people will simply get injected by zealous dealers to create addicts. Of course, I suppose I could have pointed out that they could actually just withdraw from the drug. Granted, it's not easy but it could be done. People don't like the idea that they have enough of a free will to do what they want - because then that makes them liable for blame. Ironically the right to do what you want suddenly becomes a central concept to the understanding of humanity when the person wants to justify sleeping around. When they don't want blame they're 'conditioned' and when they want to justify something they're suddenly 'mature'. As to prostitution; it's perfectly acceptable, legally. Although I suspect the vo-techs for this profession would be absolutely swamped... It strikes me as a very depressing profession, but not something so heinous it can't be regulated properly.

[RelentlessOblivion]

as I said before Iceni much like clinical depression addiction is a mental illness, having actually suffered through depression I can understand why so many addicts who attempt to get clean fail it is incredibly hard to break free of those shackles, after a period of time you grow to accept or even like being in that position and with substance abuse it's much worse. Hence why I don't believe that opting to become a prostitute because the money can feed a drug habit is actually voluntary but BAN is quite correct it is certainly more morally permissable then breaking the law via theft or fraud to feed that addiction.

[BlutAusNerd]

I don't understand addiction problems because I am not afflicted with them. However, there are plenty that are, and just as I may struggle with other things in my life, addiction is a struggle for many. It's just something about the way their brains are wired, in the same way that my brain is wired not to accept pop music. I'm not trying to sound judgmental, because it is a legitimate problem for some, but in other cases it's just about laziness and not wanting to tackle the withdrawals and/or change your habits. To Iceni's point, it all goes back to accountability. We train ourselves and our kids, through the media, through role models with higher stations in society, and through cowardice, that you can point the finger in any situation and blame someone else. This is complete bullshit, and the single biggest problem in the world at large. Nobody wants to accept blame for their actions, and therefore nobody feels like they should have to do anything about their problems, just let somebody else (whoever they deem "responsible") take care of it. Fuck that, your lot in life is your own, and there are factors that may encumber you, but nothing is beyond reach of overcoming. I've seen people who have had it bad achieve great things and really make something of themselves, just as I've seen people wallow in self pity and go nowhere because of an insignificant problem. Own up, quit bitching, and fucking deal with your shit.