Meshuggah be djent or not and Groove Metal's Etymology

[Spiderlix]

I have two questions:Why some headbangers fight about Meshuggah be djent or not?And whats the name's origin of groove metal genre?Its true that their name only originated at XXI century?

[Dead1]

1 hour ago, AlSymerz said:

Yeah, if he's not kissing Lars' arse he's making backhanded compliments and blaming everyone else for his fuck ups.

He is such a sad little wannabe.  And I say that as an Anthrax fan.

[AlSymerz]

I wouldn't call myself a fan because I only like a few of their albums but I totally agree, he's a sad little wannabe. In the early days he complained because Joey had no desire to write any of the lyrics. But then he also goes on about himself being the only one who could write lyrics for Anthrax until John came along. Frankie's lyrics were too poppish, Danny was terrible at everything and the whole job fell to him as expert lyricist.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

3 hours ago, Dead1 said:

I think it's funny you guys are disputing the existence of groove metal when you don't even listen to it.  Seriously it's like me saying Depressive Black Metal is not a thing and that Cradle of Filth and Darkthrone are the same.

I can hear it be it listening to Pantera or Lamb of God or Skinlab or Machine Head or something like Sacred Reich's American Way or Onslaught's Killing Piece or Testament's Demonic.  It's also often got a slightly thrashier vibe but it can also take influence from other genres such as more commercial death metal and melodic death metal and hardcore.

It's chunky metal with far more emphasis on groove and "overt masculinity" with vocals that are often more of a bellow or semi bark than a thrash bark.   Tempo's usually slower than thrash but again they can be thrash level speed (eg Machine Head's Blood for Blood or Pantera's Suicide Note II).  Production is also thicker than thrash.

 

A lot of older thrash bands have taken on trappings of groove metal in the 1990s and  21st century.  Sacred Reich and Exhorder helped invent it, but Testament, Sepultura, Overkill and Anthrax (Sound of White Noise, aspects of Volume 8 ) also incorporated it in the 1990s.  I'd also argue death metal bands incorporated bits of groove metal - eg  Napalm Death's Diatribes or Entombed's Wolverine Blues or Morbid Angel's Domination).

He sang on 4 albums.  The Greater of Two Evils is a compilation of re-recorded Joey and Turbin era songs.

 

Sound of White Noise is awesome.

Volume 8 has some great moments and some really naff ones.

You'd hate both.

Stomp 442 was meh and We've Come For You all are shit on par with Metallica's St Anger.   

Not disputing its existence my friend, and I understand what it is. I just don't think 'groove metal' counts as a bona fide, full-fledged sub-genre like thrash or black or death or doom, that's all. But it goes without saying that you're all free to disagree! I have my own deeply ingrained opinions after decades of listening to mostly metal, but I'm not claiming to be the supreme arbiter with the final word on sub-genres. They're a personal thing and like the Orca you're all free to make up your own for each band if it makes you happy. He says Anthrax are bouncy castle metal, I've said many times I have all my Overkill abums tagged as "blood metal." You too can call all your favorite bands whatever sub-genres you want.

And please stop with this 'you don't even listen to groove metal' nonsense, of course I do! Just because I can't stand Pantera and several of these other bands some of you guys like to call groove metal, doesn't mean I hate everything you might consider groove metal. I've said many times I love Overkill's I Hear Black and Necroshine albums which you would probably call groove metal. I love Sacred Reich and have Independent playing right now as I type (American Way being my favorite SR disc) and I think you'd call them groove metal too. I like Testie's middle period and apparently you want to call that groove metal too. And even Exodus veered into groovy territory at one point, and I didn't hate that either. Although I rarely listen to SHKM nowadays. Tempo I still think is great though, fucking love that song Blacklist, is that groove metal? So I'm not against all of this stuff on principle, I just don't think every metal band that's made a couple of albums that groove constitutes a unique and distinct sub-genre, that's all. 

As far as Anthrax is concerned, I won't deny I was a fan in the mid 80's up through AtL, but they really lost me with the very commercial Euphoria and Persistence albums which put me off the band completely. Still I owned Sound of White Noise back in the day and I used to play it semi-regularly. Wasn't my #1 favorite album of the 90's by any means, but there were a bunch of songs on there I liked, almost all of side 1 is pretty good, (especially Only) although side 2 is a lot weaker, I really only liked Black Lodge and Not an Exit.

True I've never owned any of the albums that came after that, but I've heard them. I think it was just last year I listened to about 4 of their later albums one day including Stomp, Vol 8 and WCFYA just to hear them. I liked some of it, there's a track Fueled off Stomp I really liked a lot, and there were two I liked quite a bit from WCFYA: Refuse to be Denied and Black Dahlia if you're familiar. So I'm really not an Anthrax hater to the degree that some people are. Those dudes have nostalgic value for me from my 80's hesher years when I was in my 20's.

Just threw Vol 8 on now to refresh my memory. It ain't St Anger level terrible, I think it's actually pretty good for mainstream metal. It's just not black metal, ya know? I discovered at 43 when I was your age in 2004 that I like the extreme metal better than the mainstream clean vocals stuff. So naturally since then I've spent a lot more time listening to it. But despite what you may think I don't blanketly hate everything that's not black & death or crust. And I don't live in a cave, since the era of Youtube began I have been able to hear lots of stuff from outside of my goat zone without having to buy it. Just not too much nu-metal or melodic metalcore or power metal or whatever they consider 5FDP and those kinds of bands to be. I draw the line there and try my best to avoid hearing that kind of uber commercial stuff when at all possible. Oh shit, I just got up to the country song on Vol 8, wtf man?? But this Harm's Way song I'm digging, might even play this one again.

1 hour ago, AlSymerz said:

I wouldn't call myself a fan because I only like a few of their albums but I totally agree, he's a sad little wannabe. In the early days he complained because Joey had no desire to write any of the lyrics. But then he also goes on about himself being the only one who could write lyrics for Anthrax until John came along. Frankie's lyrics were too poppish, Danny was terrible at everything and the whole job fell to him as expert lyricist.

What about Charlie, he don't write lyrics? Danny wasn't terrible at lead guitar, they don't really expct lead guitar players to write lyrics do they? 

[AlSymerz]

According to Scott's book Charlie wrote all the music but never the lyrics. I don't know how true that is because Lilker wrote in the early days (he was even credited with songs on the second album despite being fired). But there is also reports that the entire first album was made in a different studio to what is listed and that Scott and Charlie did nothing for it. Charlie definitely writes all the majority of the music now days. Scott admits to some melodies but seems to suggest the lyrics are his in all but a few occasions where he wrote with John.

I don't know that it's a case of not expecting lead guitarist to write lyrics, I'm sure some do. But Scott never seemed to get along great with Danny and in his own words Danny could play guitar really well but he was lazy, he wasn't good socially and he was a drunk. He also played a guitar with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on it and combined with the long red shorts he wore in the Antisocial film clip it made the band look childish and unprofessional.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

1 hour ago, AlSymerz said:

According to Scott's book Charlie wrote all the music but never the lyrics. I don't know how true that is because Lilker wrote in the early days (he was even credited with songs on the second album despite being fired). But there is also reports that the entire first album was made in a different studio to what is listed and that Scott and Charlie did nothing for it. Charlie definitely writes all the majority of the music now days. Scott admits to some melodies but seems to suggest the lyrics are his in all but a few occasions where he wrote with John.

I don't know that it's a case of not expecting lead guitarist to write lyrics, I'm sure some do. But Scott never seemed to get along great with Danny and in his own words Danny could play guitar really well but he was lazy, he wasn't good socially and he was a drunk. He also played a guitar with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles on it and combined with the long red shorts he wore in the Antisocial film clip it made the band look childish and unprofessional.

Any way you slice it this song fucking sucks. The one single good thing about this video/song was Danny's short solo. Didn't notice any ninja turtles on his guitar and I couldn't see anything worse about his outfit than what any of the rest of them were wearing. Joey's shorts were even more stupid looking, he was always the weakest link for me in the band anyway. And seriously since Danny's 5' 1" I would think he has no choice but to shop in the little boy's department. And you know, it was the 80's, people wore stupid shit back then.

Anthrax - Antisocial

 

 

[AlSymerz]

That is Danny's TMNT guitar. Everything I mentioned is something Scott said about Danny in his book. As previously mentioned he's so much like Mustaine that it's not funny.

The worst thing about that song is that it's still in the fucking set after all these years. Still at least he doesn't call it ground breaking and world changing like he says Bring Tha Noize is.

 

[JonoBlade]

35 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

That is Danny's TMNT guitar. Everything I mentioned is something Scott said about Danny in his book. As previously mentioned he's so much like Mustaine that it's not funny.

The worst thing about that song is that it's still in the fucking set after all these years. Still at least he doesn't call it ground breaking and world changing like he says Bring Tha Noize is.

 

Anti-Social is a cover anyway. It is kind of lame to be remembered for a cover and insist on still playing it in their live set. Like Quiet Riot was always known for Cum on Feel the Noize. That song is awful. I mean Metal Health was hit or miss as it was, but the title track and Thunderbird get a clip on the nostalgia ticket.

Confession: I never even heard Sound of White Noise. I never owned it. The golden era of Anthrax for me was cramming on their albums up to 1990 in time for the 22 August Wellington Town Hall gig. I still contact my best mate every year on that day to remind him how old we are.

In a way Anthrax supercharged my interest in heavier music, but my interest waned because it was so starkly obvious they were the weakest of the big four. Yet, very grateful to them for making the trip and opening my eyes.

Years later I did pick up Stomp and V8 in a second hand store and listened to them once each. But, I bought the We've Come For You All CD new. I have no idea why. However, I genuinely like about half of it. The intro and first proper track Contact/What Doesn't Die, some great drum work on segue between Any Place But Here and Nobody Knows Anything and the closing title track.

Due to spreading out those highlights the album kind of works well. It's the last Anthrax album I ever bought and will remain that way until they dip below 50 minutes.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

I've never actually heard this before either. It's a rap song with guitars. OK, but the riff is shit so what good is it? The concept might have been groundbreaking and who wouldn't want to have Flava Flav in their video?  As a rap song it might've been ok but as a metal song it was shit. The comments section sure seemed to like it though.

 

Anthrax, Public Enemy - Bring tha Noize

 

2 minutes ago, JonoBlade said:

Confession: I never even heard Sound of White Noise. I never owned it. The golden era of Anthrax for me was cramming on their albums up to 1990 in time for the 22 August Wellington Town Hall gig. I still contact my best mate every year on that day to remind him how old we are.

Hey that was my 29th birthday.  I am also reminded every August 22nd of how old I am because everyone insists on wishing me a happy fucking birthday even though I keep tellling them I'm really not keen on having any more of them.

[AlSymerz]

18 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I've never actually heard this before either. It's a rap song with guitars. OK, but the riff is shit so what good is it? The concept might have been groundbreaking and who wouldn't want to have Flava Flav in their video?  As a rap song it might've been ok but as a metal song it was shit. The comments section sure seemed to like it though.

 

Anthrax, Public Enemy - Bring tha Noize

 

Hey that was my 29th birthday.  I am also reminded every August 22nd of how old I am because everyone insists on wishing me a happy fucking birthday even though I keep tellling them I'm really not keen on having any more of them.

I don't know what the metal v rap scene was like in America in the 80's, but here there wasn't really any hate between the two. Well put it this way there was no more hate for it than there was in groups like metal v country.

According to Scott, a life long hip hop and rap fan,  the rap v metal war was terrible and this broke ground everywhere because no one had seen anything like rap and any other genre getting along. He does admit that Areosmith/Run DMC did do it first but also claims Bring Tha Noize broke more ground. So much so they have anniversaries for the song and what it apparently did for the world. It's also the last Anthrax song Scott claims was taken seriously by any record label and it was taken only take seriously by PE's label because they understood what a history making song it would be.

It did however start with that horrific song of Anthrax's called I'm The Man because Scott and Charlie also thought that song was amazing.

[JonoBlade]

4 hours ago, AlSymerz said:

It did however start with that horrific song of Anthrax's called I'm The Man because Scott and Charlie also thought that song was amazing.

Believe it or not, I'm the Man was the first Anthrax song I ever heard and, accordingly, assumed they were a joke band. I actually liked it because I like joke rap bands. In context and with the benefit of hindsight I can admit it is just wrong.

This was early 1988 and the next video on the TV show I was watching was "That's the Way I Wanna Rock 'n' Roll" by AC/DC.

I can't be sure, but the next promo vid after the ad break was The Shining by Black Sabbath (I only recall this because I had the foresight to dub it on VHS and watched it a million times). It really was an important evening in my metal evolution because before that all I knew was Twisted Sister and Bon Jovi.

[GoatmasterGeneral]

10 hours ago, AlSymerz said:

It did however start with that horrific song of Anthrax's called I'm The Man because Scott and Charlie also thought that song was amazing.

 

5 hours ago, JonoBlade said:

Believe it or not, I'm the Man was the first Anthrax song I ever heard and, accordingly, assumed they were a joke band. I actually liked it because I like joke rap bands. In context and with the benefit of hindsight I can admit it is just wrong.

I would cite I'm the Man as the song that officially ended my time as an Anthrax fan. Had been with them from the very beginning, but when that song made its way into their live set it kind of soured me on them and then I started to realize a lot of the heralded Among the Living album wasn't really all that great either. If they would have had better songwriting skills I might have stayed with them longer, but all the goofy comic book crap pushed me away. I still bought Euphoria out of habit when I saw it in the stores, but my heart just wasn't in it anymore by Sept '88 (record came out a week before I got married) and the record really wasn't very good at all. So that was it, I was done with 'em. Plenty of other bands to listen to, I'll never understand why people make excuses for these bands and stay loyal to them through decades of albums they don't even like that much.

My attitude has always been: it was fun while it lasted, but when they start sucking I'm happy to just move on to another band who's doing something that I do like. Unlike the 70's when I was in high school, there was no lack of metal bands in '88 doing shit that I liked. Thrash had been slow rolling out, a bunch of these bands existed and we'd heard about them but it took some time for many of them to actually get their records out. In 1984 you could count the number of thrash albums that existed on the fingers of one hand. It was '85 - '86 when the thrash train really started picking up steam and bands like Overkill, Megastaine and Exodus finally got their debut albums out.

By '88 when State of Euphoria came out Testament had finally gotten their first two records out in '87 & '88 and I was pretty heavily into them, Coroner had released RIP to the world in '87 and I was completely in love with that, first two Candlemass '86 & '87 were getting a lot of spins, Overkill of course had put out the mighty Taking Over in '87 which I still played virtually daily in '88, a hard rock/heavy metal band from NY called Circus of Power had put their debut out in '88 and my buddy and I were totally infatuated with it, Into the Pandemonium came out in '88, Sacred Reich put out Surf Nicaragua in '88, and of course Justice For All had just come out in August a month before Euphoria, so we were all trying to digest that behemoth still. Slayer, Death Angel, Nuclear Assault, Motörhead, Exodus, Discharge, GBH, Exploited, Exciter, Fate, Razor, Megastaine, The Cult and of course Social D all getting lots of airtime at my house....so I didn't need Anthrax in my life anymore by '88 'cuz by then I had so many better options. So fuck 'em.

 

10 hours ago, AlSymerz said:

I don't know what the metal v rap scene was like in America in the 80's, but here there wasn't really any hate between the two. Well put it this way there was no more hate for it than there was in groups like metal v country.

I'm from New York, ground zero for rap music. The first rap song I was aware of was Rappers Delight the summer of '79 right after I had just graduated from high school. Didn't hate it, but I wasn't in love with it because it was an offshoot of disco. But I thought it was just the one novelty song, I had no idea rap would go on to become much bigger than metal in just a few years. Thing is I had come of age in the disco era, and again NY was ground zero for that trend as well. So in my high school it had to be 2/3 of the kids listened to disco music. Then you had the classic rock kids who were perfectly happy with whatever was on the "rock" radio station, and then we had the little hippie Dead Head cohort who were only maybe 5% of the student body. And then of course there was me and my 4 or 5 little friends who were holding out for harder stuff like Sabbath. But you had to pick a side it was disco vs rock. If you wanted to cross over and listen to something from the other side then you'd better keep it on the d/l. Which of course I know is stupid, but we were kids. And that mindset stuck with me for many many years the rock vs disco thing and then rap supplanted disco in the early 80's so it became rock vs rap. One or the other not both. 

I get that Scott Ian just 2 years younger than me growing up in Bayside Queens NYC was bombarded with rap music when he was still in high school so he likes it. While me a bit farther out in the suburbs, I hated it because I just hated everything that wasn't hard and heavy and had no distorted guitars including the Dead and "classic" radio rock and new wave and everything else we had in the 80's that wasn't hard and heavy. So when I discovered punk (NY is also ground zero for punk) that was cool because it had distorted guitars and it was hard. I liked hard. But rap was always a no-go, I wasn't gonna be listening to any of that shit no matter what Scott Ian said. 

In later years it's come to pass that most of my friends are 10 - 15 years younger than me, simply because that's primarily who listens to the same kinds of extreme metal as I do, dudes now in their mid 40's to early 50's. Dudes I know who are my age in their 60's tend to be more into "classic rock" from the 60's, 70's and 80's, maybe Zeppelin, AC/DC and GnR is about as hard and heavy as they'll usually go. They don't know about extreme metal or rap. While the dudes I know who were born in the 70's didn't grow up in that contentious rock vs disco/rap era like I did, they're Gen-X metalheads who grew up with rap music on the radio and in some cases are not only tolerant of it but some of them even buy and actively collect underground rap albums right alongside their underground death and black and thrash metal albums. Which is really fucking weird to me, because I come from the one or the other era where you're not allowed to like both you had to pick a side.

Over the years I've heard a ton of rap music just driving the truck all through the myriad of neighborhoods of the 5 boros of NYC and it was coming out of boom boxes, tenement windows and people's cars or wherever. In the 90's and 00's it was just in the air, the soundtrack to city life, especially in the ghetto neighborhoods like Harlem or Bed Stuy, Crown Heights, Flatbush... So I mean I can now listen to a rap song or two without freaking out and I'll just deal with it if you play it for me in your car or it's in a movie or any place where I have no control. But left to my own devices I would never ever choose to listen to rap or hip-hop or whatever. (I was once told rap is the music, hip-hop is the culture) Back in the 80's when I was even more of a smart-ass instigator than I am today, if you had popped in a rap tape while driving with me in the car I probably would have ejected it and thrown it right out the window (just so I could have the story to tell about the look on your face) and then it'd have been your move, what if anything are you gonna do about it?

The country music thing doesn't really apply to me being a New Yorker. Country music wasn't even really a thing here, or at least not with any of the kids around my age that I ever knew coming up, so it was totally off my radar. I knew that it existed of course, saw it on tv, but I figured that was just some goofy nonsense for older folks who lived out in the country somewhere and had cows and pigs and chickens and drove tractors and wore overalls and straw hats n shit. But I never saw any people like that in the NY burbs. I do have friends nowadays who are from other parts of the country and some of them really love older country music. Doesn't bother me to listen to it, I find it fairly inoffnsive even though after 4 or 5 songs I've pretty much had enough because it all sounds like they're singing the exact same song with the exact same accent/twang over and over ad infinitum. (I know ME loves the latin) So I'm not gonna start buying country albums, I'll stick with my goat metal thank you.

 

Raper's Delight 1979. At the time it really seemed like just another disco song but the lyrics were spoken insted of sung.

 

The Breaks - Kurtis Blow, this one takes me back, haven't heard this in 40 years.

 

[AlSymerz]

I never got into rap. I suppose I heard some of it, I'm sure it was around but I never really had that much exposure so it never mattered to me. But at the time we were hearing about actual fights between rap and metal fans in America, we had no real way of confirming how much truth there was in it but at the same time it was the 80's we didn't really care. I don't think any two genres really had disagreements here, I certainly don't remember music fans clashing anywhere like what we heard was happening in the US. This is why many Anthrax fans here actually believed Scott and Charlie's idea that Bring Tha Noize was such a world changing song.

Actually in the burbs we did have a real "street" scene where gangs and just groups of kids not game to call themselves gangs would hang out like they were some sort of legendry breakdancing gang which I think was a bit of mimicing of some movie popular at the time. But I think breakdancing was more hip hop than rap, I don't really know I never listened to any of it. Those gangs quickly got driven out by the tougher gangs that were only in it for the fights.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

8 minutes ago, AlSymerz said:

I never got into rap. I suppose I heard some of it, I'm sure it was around but I never really had that much exposure so it never mattered to me. But at the time we were hearing about actual fights between rap and metal fans in America, we had no real way of confirming how much truth there was in it but at the same time it was the 80's we didn't really care. I don't think any two genres really had disagreements here, I certainly don't remember music fans clashing anywhere like what we heard was happening in the US. This is why many Anthrax fans here actually believed Scott and Charlie's idea that Bring Tha Noize was such a world changing song.

Actually in the burbs we did have a real "street" scene where gangs and just groups of kids not game to call themselves gangs would hang out like they were some sort of legendry breakdancing gang which I think was a bit of mimicing of some movie popular at the time. But I think breakdancing was more hip hop than rap, I don't really know I never listened to any of it. Those gangs quickly got driven out by the tougher gangs that were only in it for the fights.

Scott Ian's megalomania aside, I'm the Man simply ripped off the Beastie Boys whose debut album License to Ill had dropped Nov 15, 1986, just 6 weeks before I'm the Man was released on New Year's Day 1987. Beastie Boys were a punk band originally formed in NYC in 1981 who evolved into the notorious white rappers we all know today. I'm the Man would not have been at all out of place on that first BB album, the main difference being BB were a LOT better at rapping than Scott and Charlie and the boys.

The rock/metal world didn't need Anthrax to bring rap music to their attention, the Beastie Boys had already taken care of that by having Kerry King do the guitar solo for No Sleep Til Brooklyn on their 10 million selling debut album. Bring Tha Noise was years after the fact, 1991 after rap had already gone mainstream and everyone had already decided if it was of any interest to them.

It wasn't even the first collaboration between a rap group and a rock band, that had already been done in July '86 when Run DMC had Aerosmith join them on their cover of Walk This Way. Even though they never actually wanted to do it, they fucking hated the song. Rick Rubin forced them to listen to the whole song and then cover it when he heard them in the studio playing the first 12 bars of the original Aerosmith record over and over and rapping over it. They had never let the record play long enough to hear Steven singing the lyrics. When Rick Rubin made them listen to the whole song they thought it was "country bumpkin mountain climbing hillbilly gibberish" and refused to do it. But Rick insisted so they agreed to let him bring Steve and Joe in to record it, but they told him he'd better not release it as a single. But of course he did and it sold millions, made them a household name and the rest is history.

So Anthrax can't take the credit for being the first ones to bring rap music to white kids' ears, but you can't blame them for shit like Limp Bizkunt and the entire genres of nu-metal or rap rock either because the die had already been cast and that would have happened with or without them. 

 

Beastie Boys - No Sleep Till Brooklyn

 

Beastie Boys - So What'Cha Want

 

[navybsn]

Beastie Boys > anything Anthrax ever produced. I do like some Anthrax tunes, nothing I would consider mandatory though. Absolutely don't belong in the same conversation as the best of the time.

The Beasties are legendary. One may not like rap, but you can't deny their impact on the genre. They were even a pretty decent punk band before switching it up. If you like Bad Brains, you would like it.

Egg Raid on Mojo

Anthrax isn't even in the same orbit. At least Run DMC and Aerosmith were on somewhat equal footing when they got together. Public Enemy and Anthrax not so much. PE, like the Beasties, are in a totally different category. Those are formative/definitive bands for rap. Anthrax is second tier thrash at best.

Welcome to the Terrordome

And the only decent version of that abomination you posted earlier

Bring the Noise

 

[AlSymerz]

1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

So Anthrax can't take the credit for being the first ones to bring rap music to white kids' ears, but you can't blame them for shit like Limp Bizkunt and the entire genres of nu-metal or rap rock either because the die had already been cast and that would have happened with or without them.

I don't think anything Anthrax did was overly original, but Scott Ian has to cling to what he can because he craves relevance. In his own book he mentions the name Metallica more than he mentions Anthrax. At one point the book reads like a Metallica bio. At another point he's making a public apology to Lars because Mustaine shared the story about Metallica wanting to get rid of Lars before Cliff's death.

He connects himself and the band to Metallica for the first few years. Then it's PE and the entire rap world which he claims to have helped change. Then it was grasping the last handholds of metal in the late 90's when other bands whimped out. Then it was re-inventing the idea of a band because they reintroduced Joey while still technically having John in the band, despite the two never singing together. Then they were part of history because they helped create the Big 4 concerts. Then they reinvented aggressive and powerful music for Joey's triumphant return. Now while he hopes one day to have the fan base Metallica does he realises it's unlikely and just hopes to play more gigs with them.

Such comments actually sound like they come from someone who hates Scott and wants to trash talk him, but that's the way he says it in his books. So as much as I might not believe we have Scott Ian to thank for so much in this world there is a legion of butt kisses out there who do believe it. They are the same butt kissers who still believe that after 8 years of promises the new album will be anything close to what they've done in the past.

 

He's probably just as full of shit as Scott but the Greg Walls interviews where he claims Anthrax ripped him off and the claims about Fistful Of Metal are quite funny. As far as I know Scott's never addressed them but he probably knows to leave well enough alone as well because most people think Greg is lying.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Since I finally have some spare time to prepare for a long, winded post, so standard fare when I’m late to a topic…

 

1. no, one yet has been able to make a convincing argument as to why we should consider djent a sub-genre. It’s not a real thing. Name sounds stupid anyway.

2. Groove metal seems to be a catch all phrase for the bands to play a somewhat thrashy kind of metal with more emphasis on slower mid paced sections. It’s a convenience term more than a genre if you ask me.
3. Anthrax have, in my opinion, exactly 1 album, even remotely worth listening to, Among the Living, and while I enjoyed that more than half of Metallica‘s relevant, albums, and all, but two of MegaDave’s i’m none the less comfortable saying anthrax are the least relevant of the supposed big 4. Also Scott Ian is an arsehole.

4. I agree the Beastie Boys were pretty influential on early rap, even though I greatly prefer most of the artists they may have influenced. I also hold them personally responsible for the rise of rock rap and to extent nu-metal.

5. Because there’s always a fifth, I’m probably something of an outlier here because I enjoy rap and hip hop at least until the early 2000s, no, I very rarely actually post any of it here

[Dead1]

3 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Since I finally have some spare time to prepare for a long, winded post, so standard fare when I’m late to a topic…

 

1. no, one yet has been able to make a convincing argument as to why we should consider djent a sub-genre. It’s not a real thing. Name sounds stupid anyway.

2. Groove metal seems to be a catch all phrase for the bands to play a somewhat thrashy kind of metal with more emphasis on slower mid paced sections. It’s a convenience term more than a genre if you ask me.
3. Anthrax have, in my opinion, exactly 1 album, even remotely worth listening to, Among the Living, and while I enjoyed that more than half of Metallica‘s relevant, albums, and all, but two of MegaDave’s i’m none the less comfortable saying anthrax are the least relevant of the supposed big 4. Also Scott Ian is an arsehole.

4. I agree the Beastie Boys were pretty influential on early rap, even though I greatly prefer most of the artists they may have influenced. I also hold them personally responsible for the rise of rock rap and to extent nu-metal.

5. Because there’s always a fifth, I’m probably something of an outlier here because I enjoy rap and hip hop at least until the early 2000s, no, I very rarely actually post any of it here

 

Well said on 1-4!

[Dr-Phibes]

Is djent not just a tone?

[Nasty_Cabbage]

9 minutes ago, Dr-Phibes said:

Is djent not just a tone?

Not a tone, but definitely a musically defined style. This happens every so often, and in most cases a lot of the bickering comes from a corner of the metal world that typically rejects and dislikes whatever style their talking about. Just a few weeks ago I nearly had an aneurysm when I saw bands being referred to as "pizza thrash". It cuts both ways though. For the most part I really don't think "groove" is a very apt sound description, and the argument could possibly be made that the term djent, though somewhat nebulous, at least has an onomatopoeian aspect in it's function that could apply as a general catch-all for sound description. That said though, I have no problems leaving the term behind and just going with Meshuggah-esque or some such. It's really not a hill worth dying on.

[Dr-Phibes]

8 minutes ago, Nasty_Cabbage said:

Not a tone, but definitely a musically defined style. This happens every so often, and in most cases a lot of the bickering comes from a corner of the metal world that typically rejects and dislikes whatever style their talking about. Just a few weeks ago I nearly had an aneurysm when I saw bands being referred to as "pizza thrash". It cuts both ways though. For the most part I really don't think "groove" is a very apt sound description, and the argument could possibly be made that the term djent, though somewhat nebulous, at least has an onomatopoeian aspect in it's function that could apply as a general catch-all for sound description. That said though, I have no problems leaving the term behind and just going with Meshuggah-esque or some such. It's really not a hill worth dying 

I'm in a band but pretty musically dumb. Always associated djent with the bend string off kilter sound..the doooooooowwwn

An old band I was in was referred to as math...but we just had more than 2 sections lol