Pushing religion on others

[RelentlessOblivion]

This could make for a very interesting discussion had we not travelled this road already. You know my stance on organised religion though I don't have the same issues with faithful individuals.

[Idlewilde]

it is really weird how many threads/discussions about religion there are here. to me it's a bit like telling the darker details of my personal life in a public forum.

[RelentlessOblivion]

It's a little irritating because all the discussions seem to take the same path. It's as if individual topics which merit discussion must break down to the same point. The thread I started on this issue was more about spirituality as something different from religion and even that broke down into a discussion solely about religion

[Riverlioness]

[Idlewilde]

It's a little irritating because all the discussions seem to take the same path. It's as if individual topics which merit discussion must break down to the same point. The thread I started on this issue was more about spirituality as something different from religion and even that broke down into a discussion solely about religion

Yup I agree with you Murph. It is kind of surprising for me to be honest to see how a lot of threads end up with a discussion about religion, I just can get the conclusion that this seems to be bugging people quite a lot nowadays.

[RelentlessOblivion]

It doesn't bug me, I think it's important to talk about things like this in a meaningful way. I would just prefer that these discussiosn don't break down into the same thing over and over again. Getting back to the topic at hand I had an interesting experience yesterday being called a "devil-worshipper" for the second time in my life. Fair cop though I mean every bloke who wears jeans, a Deep Purple t-shirt and a denim jacket has to be a satanist right?

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Pushing religion on others

It doesn't bug me, I think it's important to talk about things like this in a meaningful way. I would just prefer that these discussiosn don't break down into the same thing over and over again. Getting back to the topic at hand I had an interesting experience yesterday being called a "devil-worshipper" for the second time in my life. Fair cop though I mean every bloke who wears jeans, a Deep Purple t-shirt and a denim jacket has to be a satanist right?

Of course, religious fanatics will tell you of the existence of billions of Satanists... Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[RelentlessOblivion]

I probably didn't help the situation calling him a mindless zombie

[Scullicon]

Its actually really nice to have religious people actually believing you worship the devil, They stay out of my way after the first confrontation.

[RelentlessOblivion]

It highlights the individuals overwhelming ignorance really. Still being called a Satanist by some random isn't a big deal. The lecture I got a couple years back on how having a guide dog was animal cruelty now that was very unpleasant.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

So I was walking back from the liqueur store and this lady was handing out pieces of paper trying to get people to convert to Christianity and she stopped me asking if I wanted to accept jesus christ. I of course said no because I'm agnostic, she then proceeded to tell me if I didn't convert now I would burn in hell for all eternity. I asked what proof she had of it and she told me she had to bible which was a book based on historical events. I then asked what evidence she had for this theory if you can even call it that. She kept on telling me that there is all this historical evidence in the bible itself and some other shit, of course out of respect I just kept nodding my head and saying ok. After a while i got tired of it and decided it was time for me to leave, I as I tried to leave she told me before I leave I have to convert immediately. I told her again that I was agnostic and had no interest in becoming religious but she just couldn't get it through her skull. I ended up telling her to fuck off and calling her a religious zealot and dumb cunt. I guess that's what it takes nowadays for people to listen when it come to religion.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Sometimes they are so belligerent and intolerant you need to insult them so they leave you alone. That being said I did have an in depth discussion with one recently which ended with us agreeing to disagree on the subject.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

I would like to have good intelligent conversations with people despite what religion they are and I have had good conversation with people but this woman was so thick headed and brainwashed it was just stupid even trying to communicate with her. I don't mind talking to people in an intelligent manner but some of this religious freaks think only their opinions matter and talking to them becomes useless. It's people like that, that made me hate religion so much.

[RelentlessOblivion]

It's pretty annoying when you want to have a serious discussion about something and the person you're talking to is just plain stupid

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

No kidding, it honestly gets tiring after awhile. Where I live there are so many stupid people that it's gotten to the point where most of the time I refuse to talk to people. The only reason I was willing to talk to this girl is because she was persistent and I can admire persistence under certain circumstances but in this case she was just belligerent. I don't like people who sit there and force you to believe the nonsense that spews from their mouth.

[RelentlessOblivion]

There are some of those people where I live but for the most part they are actually quite rational and whilst in most cases they are resolute in their beliefs they are still open minded

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

I have one friend who is a metalhead and is christian and is still open minded enough to have a conversation about it with me and not once try to push his religion on me. That's why we are such good friends, that and he's the only metalhead I've met where I live now.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Other then a couple from the forum I don't know any christian metalheads. At school I was friends with a Hindu metalhead though, sadly we've fallen out of touch.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

I must it is weird knowing a christian metalhead because of the fact that he won't listen to any satanic related bands. This makes his music selection some what limited so it's kinda hard to find something we both like. That's the only I've noticed about him vs non-religious metalheads. It is quite interesting to have discussions with him about how his music preference affects the way other christians view him though. He tells me that even in the church he goes to people look at him a "non-beliver" even after he sits there and recites half the damn bible. It's truly amazing how people can claim to follow a religion wholeheartedly yet display characteristics that go against that very same religion. That is the main reason I despise religious people and humanity in general, there is acceptance of peoples differences. I have find personally that more religious people tend to judge more quickly and harshly than non religious people, although most people I see judge me regardless of religion.

[RelentlessOblivion]

It's certainly an interesting dynamic. My hindu friend had that same problem being very devout to his faith but treated poorly because of the music he listened to. I wish we hadn't fallen out of touch because he introduced me to Orphaned Land (one of my very favourite bands) and we had some very interesting discussions at school.

[Scullicon]

Why not try a different approach next time? For fun. If someone tell you that you will burn in hell prepare a story of how you already know this and been promised a seat in the his council and a three hooked whip. You don't get approached like that here in Sweden. Most people think your mad if you would, so they leave small letters and stuff in your mailbox instead.

[Iceni]

The sad thing is that many of these people aren't actually belligerent. They are held in thrall to bad preachers who are belligerent and teach them the wrong way to approach non-Christians. Usually, they act out of a combination of compassion and fear. Compassion arises because they actually do care enough about the non-Christians to have a go at saving them from hell. Now, I myself can't really be bothered - I tend to think it's not worth me wasting my time - but they actually have enough compassion to try, or even to be relentless in their efforts. That's the sympathetic portrayal of their fervor, anyway. Fear, by contrast, is easier for me to see and it has a twofold nature. These folks fear that they won't keep up appearances in front of their congregation unless they constantly badger non-Christians. They also worry that they themselves will be banished to hell for sloth and lack of sympathy. Often they are taught that their lack of enthusiasm is evidence of heartlessness. The other side of the coin is a little less obvious: persecution. Although the US is mainly Christian public opinion has turned more and more against public expressions of meaningful faith and has aimed to create legislation that curbs an individual's theological liberty: Rising Tide of Restrictions on Religion | Pew Research Center's Religion & Public Life Project Now one can certainly debate how serious this all is, but no matter how large the problem is, the fear of persecution is large. Because of the debating style of self-appointed iconoclasts like Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, many Christians have gotten the impression that bellicose disdain is the best approach to take. That, then, is in part to cause for such unmitigated hostility by some Christians in 'discussions'.

I have one friend who is a metalhead and is christian and is still open minded enough to have a conversation about it with me and not once try to push his religion on me. That's why we are such good friends' date=' that and he's the only metalhead I've met where I live now.[/quote'] One thing that really irritates me is that I've had a similar experience to your friend. I got crap for listening to non-Christian music (they didn't just object to Satanic metal...it was any non-Christian music at all) at my youth group. I remember one woman getting on my case to change my beliefs - even though I told her I was Christian! Furthermore, her understanding of Christianity was woefully lacking and banal. Folks like her, for whatever reason, are really scuttling what little raft of dignity the idea of Protestant Christianity has left. I tend to follow Newton's Third Law with regards to my being Christian. One force can expect to meet with an equal and opposite force.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

This why I have such a problem with what religion brings with it, a group people lacking a way of trying to convert people through a more positive means. It's always "you're gonna burn in hell" if you don't believe what we say. I hate people trying to force me to do things I have no interest in doing. I don't like the way religious people try to talk to me about it, they have something negative to say about me not being the same religion as them and it gets annoying after a while. What the hell happened to people accepting each other as they are? Isn't there something in the bible that teaches tolerance?

[FatherAlabaster]

Now one can certainly debate how serious this all is, but no matter how large the problem is, the fear of persecution is large. Because of the debating style of self-appointed iconoclasts like Richard Dawkins or Christopher Hitchens, many Christians have gotten the impression that bellicose disdain is the best approach to take. That, then, is in part to cause for such unmitigated hostility by some Christians in 'discussions'. One thing that really irritates me is that I've had a similar experience to your friend. I got crap for listening to non-Christian music (they didn't just object to Satanic metal...it was any non-Christian music at all) at my youth group. This article says NOTHING about legislation in the US aimed at curbing an individual's theological liberty. It specifically mentions a court decision in favor of a Christian school that wanted a permit for expansion. It presents no evidence of secular opposition to religious freedom, either, but it does mention incidents of collision between groups of different faiths, repression of a Sikh, hostility towards Muslims. That the majority (about 60%) of religious land-use investigations by the DOJ involved Christian organizations is both inconclusive and unsurprising given that the large majority of religious organizations in this country is Christian. And the US wasn't even on their "high" list - we just recently got bumped up from "low" to "moderate". Many of the other countries on their "high" list have religious governments that are actively repressing other religions. That is a situation I really don't want to see happen here. Even though I'm an atheist, I agree with a good amount of what you say, but I'm not buying this one.

[Iceni]

This article says NOTHING about legislation in the US aimed at curbing an individual's theological liberty. (...) It presents no evidence of secular opposition to religious freedom, either, but it does mention incidents of collision between groups of different faiths, repression of a Sikh, hostility towards Muslims. That the majority (about 60%) of religious land-use investigations by the DOJ involved Christian organizations is both inconclusive and unsurprising given that the large majority of religious organizations in this country is Christian. And the US wasn't even on their "high" list - we just recently got bumped up from "low" to "moderate". Many of the other countries on their "high" list have religious governments that are actively repressing other religions. That is a situation I really don't want to see happen here. Even though I'm an atheist, I agree with a good amount of what you say, but I'm not buying this one.

Thanks for reading the article, but I think you missed my point. First, the fact that the US' rating was raised suggests an increase of theological limitation, however small. My contention is that the fear of persecution is high. Fear of persecution is not a groundless fear (as evidenced by the rating bump) even if it is an exaggerated fear. Second, it is true that many Christians blow the data way out of proportion, and it is true that many have no appreciation of how good the US has it compared with other countries. However, my point is that Christians fear persecution. Third, many see Europe (just Europe, they tend not to differentiate between countries) as a trend-setter - so they look at the ratings in some of those countries and worry that the US will follow suit. Again, not necessarily a sensible fear. My contention was merely trying to explain the way a lot of these people think, not to prove them right.