Pushing religion on others

[RelentlessOblivion]

The only evidence in that article which would indicate a fear of persecution for one's beliefs relates more specifically to muslims as best I can tell. Mind you I only had a cursory glance not a detailed read so I may well have missed something. In any case the fear of religious persecution in the US is borderline groundless given the high degree of freedom actually on offer. It would be more understandable if the US government were beginning to take steps towards religious oppression.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Pushing religion on others

The only evidence in that article which would indicate a fear of persecution for one's beliefs relates more specifically to muslims as best I can tell. Mind you I only had a cursory glance not a detailed read so I may well have missed something. In any case the fear of religious persecution in the US is borderline groundless given the high degree of freedom actually on offer. It would be more understandable if the US government were beginning to take steps towards religious oppression.

Our freedoms are definitely shrinking in this country, but those sorts of things don't get much press. If you want to blame the oligarchy (and frankly, why wouldn't you?), you could say that it has something to do with all of our major media being owned by just a few companies. It took almost two and a half years for them to start reporting about the Fukushima reactor spilling radioactive isotopes into the ocean at an alarming rate, now seen as even worse than Chernobyl by many, but you can be sure that the babies of celebrities like the Kardashians and the royals will receive endless coverage. The NSA spy center proves that our 4th amendment is all but gone, media control and censorship damage the 1st amendment, Guantanamo Bay shits all over the 6th, 8th, 14th, and other amendments based on a technicality. Lack of education and a waning desire for it render the 1st amendment a bit pointless anyway, what good is the freedom of speech and religion if all your ignorance allows you is talking about what you watched on TV and regurgitating what your pastor teaches you on Sunday, sometimes for the use of brow beating others? Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[RelentlessOblivion]

Well one would surmise then that having a bill of rights is entirely pointless given the ease with which your government appear to be breaching these supposedly protected rights. That being said it's no better in Australia we have no rights whatsoever and the only thing that stops people from realising it is that the government hasn't yet contemplated serious impeachments on the rights we think we have. Well other then one law they passed a couple years back permitting citizens to be detained without charges being laid, without access to lawyers, with no contact to the outside world, for as long as is seen fit.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

The reason our rights are being breached so easily is because the uneducated fools who do not see what is happening do to their lack of intelligence. Like BAN said most people are worried about what these useless actors and actresses are doing instead of looking for something worthwhile to believe in and defend. Simply take a look at the highschool dropout rate in the US and you will understand that most Americans lack any education whatsoever making it more difficult for the ones who try to defend our rights. It's becoming impossible to take a stand against the government due to the idiots dragging this country down and us along with it.

[FatherAlabaster]

Political leaders from all across the spectrum have us concentrating on meaningless wedge issues in an effort to divide us. Once you politicize something, you control the dialog and you force people to "take a stand". So as a country we're becoming more immune to rational argument, and easier to control, because people think that deciding what "side" of which "issues" they're on and then backing the pols who are on "their side" is the essence of political involvement. Those decisions are mostly made emotionally, and have a lot more to do with group loyalties and other social considerations than they do with the good of our society as a whole. The fear of persecution that Iceni is talking about is real, even if the persecution isn't. I could never deny that - I've seen it in action myself numerous times. I think the fear is created by mostly baseless propaganda, as a political tool. It's particularly ironic because the right to worship as one sees fit is one of the few rights that seem to be well-established and protected in this country.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Given that the sole function of a Bill of Rights is to protect those fundamental freedoms however it seems odd that restrictions are being placed upon them. Surely you have a court which functions to prevent such impediments to civil liberty?

[Iceni]

Surely you have a court which functions to prevent such impediments to civil liberty?

Ha ha ha. You would hope but no, often they're the ones screwing it up. The Supreme Court hand down laws now even though that's not their job. Abortion is legal in this country but nobody voted on it. If we had legislation saying it was OK then I could at least accept it on some level, but as it stands Roe vs. Wade is a good example of what a court is not supposed to do.

[YUNO FOLLOW THE TRAIN CJ]

I don't mind if people share their religion with me, as I know that's what Christians believe they are suppose to do, but if they continue after I tell them I'm not interested then it bugs me. I am unsure about other religions, but it's the same. They can share their information about their religion and God, but if at the time I(or anybody else) tells them to halt, then they should respect that person's choice and just leave them alone.

[Iceni]

Just so you all know, I've had a negative experience with proselytizing as well. Don't know if I've given this story before but I may as well post it here. My first term at college, I once met a woman on UNM campus with Calvary Chapel who kept trying to give her spiel (and I will call it that, because she seemed not to absorb any of the information I gave her) even after I intimated quite plainly that I was decidedly Protestant. The stupidest thing was that I actually recognized what she was doing because we were given some proselytizing training in youth group. She asked me if I thought I was a good person, to which I responded 'no, I am always entrenched in sin; I try to do right but I suffer from serious moral deficiencies'. That's not the answer a grubby metalhead bugger is supposed to give but apparently soulchanginginfomercial.exe wasn't programmed with more than one if/then tree so she gave me the same response as if I'd said the opposite, albeit with some alteration; she told me that one is immersed in sin until accepting Jesus Christ as one's personal Lord and Savior and then one is 'free from sin'. Then she said that because I had admitted to being sinful I had not accepted Christ because Christ would cover my sin and make me sinless. So, I attempted to call her out on this bollocks by asking her whether one could sin after accepting Christ, at which point she said 'well, I do struggle sometimes.' Notably, she did not use the word 'sin' to describe her iniquity. In my experience the word 'struggle' is used by spineless Christians who are more interested in the appearance of faith than actual humility. More insidiously, it indicates that they are so immersed in the salvation narratives indicating a complete and immediate lifestyle turnaround upon the moment of conversion that they're actually in denial about their own sin!

[RelentlessOblivion]

That's not how it works at all, even a non-believer such as myself understands that one can "sin" after accepting Jesus into their life.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Ha ha ha. You would hope but no, often they're the ones screwing it up. The Supreme Court hand down laws now even though that's not their job. Abortion is legal in this country but nobody voted on it. If we had legislation saying it was OK then I could at least accept it on some level, but as it stands Roe vs. Wade is a good example of what a court is not supposed to do.

I have no issues with abortion. Parents should act in the best interests of their child and if that means not carrying it to term then that is their choice. Better a child not be born then be raised in an environment where it may be harmed. On top of that whilst Adoption is an option there is also a good chance that child, if put up for adoption, will not be taken in by a loving family. Not to mention pregnancy stemming from rape or pregnancies where carrying the child to term endangers the mother's life.

[Iceni]

My point was about courts making decisions without accountability, not about abortion.

I have no issues with abortion. Parents should act in the best interests of their child and if that means not carrying it to term then that is their choice. Better a child not be born then be raised in an environment where it may be harmed. On top of that whilst Adoption is an option there is also a good chance that child' date=' if put up for adoption, will not be taken in by a loving family. Not to mention pregnancy stemming from rape or pregnancies where carrying the child to term endangers the mother's life.[/quote'] It's interesting to read this, because I know a group of people who really hate abortion; disabled people. According to one disability rights activist I spoke with here, they're used to being considered less than optimal, whether that be by discrimination or by analytical observation. From what I've heard, they really resent the rationale of preventing a less-than-optimal existence, because it suggests that their lives are somehow worth less than other people's because they have to go through life handicapped. And they definitely don't take kindly to the idea that the decision can be made on their behalf without their consent, as if someone else has the ability to decide whether their life is worth living or not. The only issue that warrants discussion in my opinion is whether or not the fetus can be considered a human child.