Utopian Society

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

Well I don't disagree with you there I mean who wouldn't rather live than die. I guess I would just take a more direct approach, although like you said not like it's ever gonna happen. These are just the rantings of two intellectuals fighting over who's plan is better suited to enact. I must thank you for engaging me in this philosophical discussion regarding humanity.

[RelentlessOblivion]

I suppose it isn't totally beyond the realms of possibility that a catastrophic threat to the survival of the human race could be detected forcing differences to be put aside in order to develop a means of preventing such a cataclysmic event from occuring

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

I await the day something of that magnitude happens and we stand together united as one even if but for a moment for then we would have defied nature and proved we have the potential for something amazing. A man can dream can't he?

[Dogtor]

When I think of people and society, I like to compare it with animals. We´re not that different. I think that the main difference between man and animal is that a man is aware of his existence. He doesn´t live merely by instinct. We have guilt, pride, envy and hate. Animals don´t. Animals fight for territory and food and we fight only because of pride, envy and hate. We can veil these original reasons with mish-mash talk about liberty and stuff like that but nothing will change as long as man walks the Earth. Sad but true. There will always be asshole leaders with too much pride, envy and hate. In my opinion, the world is doomed But we can live our own lives righteously- we can be fair to each others. It´s all it takes and our own "little worlds" are/ will be nice, peaceful places to live in for those around us.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

I honestly don't feel any point in living in a world polluted by evil and not trying do anything about it. Without someone attempting to bring balance between good and evil we will ultimately destroy ourselves. I would like to see humanity prosper through the next 1000 years without having to go through a global event resulting in either the destruction of our species and/or the earth or even coming close to something like that.

[Viking]

I agree with that. You always have to keep trying to help. If you don't do anything, it will just decay that much faster.

[Dogtor]

Maybe I´m just being too pessimistic. It´s true that people have opened their eyes for human (and animal) rights and the actions of big companies and the shit that globalisation causes. People are really trying to change the world. Nevertheless, it all seems too little when the cold fact is that drugs and guns are the two biggest moneymakers in this world :/

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

Maybe I´m just being too pessimistic. It´s true that people have opened their eyes for human (and animal) rights and the actions of big companies and the shit that globalisation causes. People are really trying to change the world. Nevertheless' date=' it all seems too little when the cold fact is that drugs and guns are the two biggest moneymakers in this world :/[/quote'] I know it's not easy looking at a world of shit and trying find something worth while but I enjoy challenges and while that only helps people like me I feel that everyone must find a reason to do the things they do. Doing things without a reason does not make much sense to me, well that's how I feel at least. I sometimes question my own belief in humanity , quite often actually, and when I do I always come to one answer. It's the right thing to do plain and simple. Now while a lot of my ideas are not ethical I still believe in this particular situation doing the right thing is the best answer and I will always believe humanity has what it takes to accomplish any task set forth with the right motivation.

[BlutAusNerd]

I honestly don't feel any point in living in a world polluted by evil and not trying do anything about it. Without someone attempting to bring balance between good and evil we will ultimately destroy ourselves. I would like to see humanity prosper through the next 1000 years without having to go through a global event resulting in either the destruction of our species and/or the earth or even coming close to something like that.

Unfortunately, people don't pay for things that are good, so all of the money and power ends up in the hands of evil, along with influence because of it. Trying to fight it is becoming a losing battle, not only are all of the powerful positions occupied by people with intentions that are only for their benefit, they have convinced most people that they're doing otherwise. People work harder and take less as time goes on, allowing more to flow to the top, we're not much more than slaves with an illusion of rights, freedoms, and choices, and it's only going to get worse.

[Viking]

Guns have nothing to do with it. Guns are just a tool. In the hands of a good person, they are used for good. The big government is a big problem dividing us over all this petty bullshit like race and everything.

[Aaron Mallory]

yeah! always think about the METAL!

[RelentlessOblivion]

I can honestly say as a whole I have no faith in the human race. I truly feel the best thing that could ever happen to the Earth is the extinction of humanity.

[ReturntoCarthage]

Utopia is not possible for the more reason that even in groups of largely similar ideological tenets, given human nature's desire to "Stand out" and or attempt to differentiate oneself and ultimately create a newer trend or stamp his identity beliefs turn into one upsmanship and governments turn on themselves and rebellions occur. All Utopian delusions such as experimentation with Marxist variants have failed and cost the lives of millions, due to a combination of formulas of ecomic naivete (redistribution of wealth, land redistribution, and massive bureaucracy) coupled with a homicidal autocrat means lots of people die and the experiment failed. I'd rather not try it the current system of state we have is bad enough

[RelentlessOblivion]

No arguments here but as a hypothetical excercise I think it's interesting to discuss the differing views on what a utopia would look like.

[Viking]

Personally I think if you had one of those utopian brave new worlds, people would become weak. People already are weak but it would get worse. Nobody would worry about anything and they would get lazy and fall into a routine. They would become dependent.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Only in the lower castes. The higher castes would actually have more work to do in my system. Of course they would still have leisure time and access to materials the lower caste would not fully understand i.e. the works of Socrates.

[Viking]

I don't like caste systems. That is what America was trying to get rid of. Everybody was supposed to be able to work their way up. I think they tried to make America that utopian society but politicians got involved and ruined everything. We need to get rid of politicians to fix the world. They don't do anything for us. They are greedy and don't give a damn about anybody but themselves. They think we are lowly peasants.

[Scullicon]

As soon as you remove some greedy bastards in charge there will be more coming to take their place. I dont believe in humanity to begin with, so everything they are involved in will end in agony and pain. And lies.

[Idlewilde]

At first I thought I have nothing to say about this topic as I don't believe in perfection and aiming for it has to do more with competition, ambition and ego more than a desire to change the world for the better. And utopia is perfection and imagination brought together-a beautiful spot in litterature and so damn unapplicable in true life. But while reading your opinions I found one thing I would like to mention-we need our chaos in order to exist. Peace and order being everywhere is an illusion that is not only impossible, but it will have heavy consequences on the human kind. And the fact we need chaos is constantly surpressed, with fairytales and the common explanations how everything will be ok. We calm ourselves with those things, we believe everything will be fine and in the modern world most of the desires one could have can easily be satisfied. But that higher level of satisfaction, as we all see, goes together with much more chaos and destruction as before, because there should be something to counter it, and in a society in which there is a certain lifestyle considered as desireable there will always be those who'll explode like a popcorn in a microwave and satisfy the need for destruction for the sake of everyone. People put a blame on them without understanding they do it for all of us. I don't know if I make sense I hope I do. My main point is, that the more we are consumers and we satisfy every single desire we have, the more there'll be chaos and destruction to balance. Weird as it is I think chaos brings balance A little quote from a wonderful book to support my point: "We’re a lukewarm people for all our feast days and hard work. Not much touches us, but we long to be touched. We lie awake at night willing the darkness to part and show us a vision. Our children frighten us in their intimacy, but we make sure they grow up like us. Lukewarm like us. On a night like this, hands and faces hot, we can believe that tomorrow will show us angels in jars and that the well-known woods will suddenly reveal another path. Last time we had this bonfire, a neighbour tried to pull down the boards of his house. He said it was nothing but a stinking pile of dung, dried meat and lice. He said he was going to burn the lot. His wife was tugging at his arms. She was a big woman, used to the churn and the field, but she couldn’t stop him. He smashed his fist into the seasoned wood until his hand looked like a skinned lamb’s head. Then he lay by the fire all night and the early wind covered him in cooling ash. He never spoke of it. We never spoke of it. He doesn’t come to the bonfire anymore. I sometimes wonder why none of us tried to stop him. I think we wanted him to do it, to do it for us. To tear down our long-houred lives and let us start again. Clean and simple with open hands."

[BlutAusNerd]

As soon as you remove some greedy bastards in charge there will be more coming to take their place. I dont believe in humanity to begin with' date=' so everything they are involved in will end in agony and pain. And lies.[/quote'] It's not just politicians, it's the whole oligarchy that they're working with that are fucking us into the ground. We're receiving less and less under the perception that things are just that way, while they get fat. Politicians are the power, oligarchs are the money.

[Viking]

Yeah. It's corporations, politicians, greedy rich people. It is the people in power that are corrupted. Blood Eagle for all of them, I say!

[RelentlessOblivion]

Consider Viking that we already live in a globally defined caste system. At the top we have the very rich, the politicians etc and down we go until we reach the bottom class of poor and destitute people. At least in my hypothetical world everyone is fed and cared for and has a sense of purpose.

[Viking]

Yeah but you would still have to earn your keep. You wouldn't get it for free. Rewards for participating in a functioning society

[RelentlessOblivion]

Of course. My system wouldn't see the extreme reduction in intelligence of Brave New World that would be pointless. Social control by way of percieved freedom is far more effective then social control through fear and intimidation could ever be. Consider a world where people know they are being controlled but don't care because what they're doing makes them happy. Contrast this with a world where people are in constant fear and have come to loathe those in control. Which society is more likely to endure?

[Viking]

Yeah the first one but personally I don't want that utopian society. It always makes me think of Demolition Man where there was no fun at all.