Utopian Society

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

That's why you get rid of those people make people who are ignorant become exiled and shunned by society. Make the masses look down those who wish to conform to ignorance.

[Viking]

I totally agree with you. But that is a huge process. Most of the population are those stupid, ignorant people. I wish it was that easy.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

Well my friend you arnt the only one but anything worth it;s weight in salt is worth fighting for, and i will fight tooth and nail to accomplish a task as important as this.

[Viking]

I totally agree. I'm just saying it'a huge and expensive task. It's massive.

[RelentlessOblivion]

So you see the Utopian dream is and forever shall be a Dystopian reality as those who offer a different opinion must be silenced. Those who would stand in your way eradicated. The masses controlled so as to prevent rebellion. For all our faults the human race does one thing extremely well we will fight tooth and nail to preserve our limited freedoms thus this master plan to craft the "perfect world" will never succeed. Perfection in reality is the greatest of imperfections.

[Viking]

Yeah I know. That's what I was trying to say. You could try to wipe out those people but that would pretty much be genocide. You would be like Hitler. The best thing you can try to do is educate people. Just do your best and take care of yourself and your family.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

So you see the Utopian dream is and forever shall be a Dystopian reality as those who offer a different opinion must be silenced. Those who would stand in your way eradicated. The masses controlled so as to prevent rebellion. For all our faults the human race does one thing extremely well we will fight tooth and nail to preserve our limited freedoms thus this master plan to craft the "perfect world" will never succeed. Perfection in reality is the greatest of imperfections.

I know of no other way to preserve humanity and insure our survival as a species, what would you have me do sit back and watch as we kill ourselves over petty differences. I will not be a part of this insanity nor will I accept it as human nature. Change is key to evolution and we as a species are not changing, we are not evolving as we should be. Change is necessary and we must accept change if are to survive.

[RelentlessOblivion]

That is where you are wrong, the human race will survive as we always have, In some form or another the human infection will spread that's really the point. Whether you choose to accept it or not we have thousands of years of evidence which tells us man is hard-wired to hate, to destroy, to pursue one's own desires at the expense of all those around us. Utopia for me is a world where the human virus has been completely cured. The human race will continue to advance at this rapid pace technologically whilst becoming more subdued mentally. We may destroy ourselves which so far as I'm concerned is actually a good thing, or we will continue on, leave Earth behind and spread out across the rest of the universe fighting amongst ourselves all the while.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

I don't want to be part of a species based on a nihilistic and selfish society. We can make a future based on morals and community and scientific knowledge. It's happened in the past, we had people like Aristotle and Socrates and Plato, as for the scientific community we had Nikola Tesla and Albert Einstein, and Max Planc. The sheer fact that we revere these people as some of the most intelligent among our kind proves that we can support intelligence over selfishness. It's simply a matter of getting people to learn. This I say we can do by simply reinstating some of the punishments implemented previously in school systems, such as light smacks with a ruler when not paying attention etc etc. We have become complacent living in our own separate worlds away from the harsh realities of life and this is something that has been learned an we can just as easily unlearn it.

[RelentlessOblivion]

It's a lost cause so far as I'm concerned. Whilst mankind can and does recognise the astonishing brilliance of individuals there is no drive to actually take advantage of that intelligence. There is morality in immorality to a certain extent in that there are things we as a society recognise are wrong. This society is far from perfect however the extreme violence that would be required in order to build your proposed "utopia" and the actions you would condone to maintain it are more apalling to me then humanities decadent and suicidal pursuits such as they stand presently.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

The way I see it is that we have 2 options; 1. Increase intelligence among the masses through education which I don't see happening anytime soon or 2. Eradication and forced reeducation of the masses with lower IQ's. Sometimes extreme situations require extreme measures and I don't mind being the bad guy as long as we at least have the chance to prove that we are a great species and not just a bunch of cavemen.

[MacabreEternal]

What you are proposing BFM666 is a kin to a Stalinist era purge. Read about the purges and tell me if any of them actually worked? They bred fear, they bred mistrust and they bred selfishness. Neighbours, even members of the same family turned on each other to survive. Mankind doesn't have any collective conscience - it's a myth. When nations do rise up to overthrow regimes it does not bring change it brings (further) corruption, opportunistic violence, random power struggles and increased marginalisation and victimisation. We are not a great species by any stretch of the imagination. We are a developed species - almost mutated in terms of our needs and wants.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

We have never tried a global purge. A purge that would allow a small majority to redevelop humanity based on something more substantial than selfishness and the need for power, possibly a culture based on a scientific community, something we haven't tried yet. Humanity needs a restart, we need to start over with a fresh slate and the only way that is possible is with mass genocide. It is an extreme measure but it is what is required in such circumstances.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Utopian Society

We have never tried a global purge. A purge that would allow a small majority to redevelop humanity based on something more substantial than selfishness and the need for power' date=' possibly a culture based on a scientific community, something we haven't tried yet. Humanity needs a restart, we need to start over with a fresh slate and the only way that is possible is with mass genocide. It is an extreme measure but it is what is required in such circumstances.[/quote'] I've mentioned this before, but really the only fair and ethical to do this would be something on a large and devastating scale like nuclear war. I'm all for a reset button, and eugenics is certainly a great idea, but you have to remove ethics from the equation completely to justify it. All people are different and not all are born smart, the problem is that most people choose stupidity, ignorance and fear. Life is simply easier when you don't have to question things, examine your surroundings or your inner self, and it's awfully trendy to be brain dead these days. Kids strive to be like their retarded celebrity idols, and who could blame them? At some point, the system was broken and allowed the idiotic to succeed not in spite of that idiocy, but because of it. Given the choice, people would almost always opt for the path that was both easy and lucrative, which actually says a great deal about our free market economy as well. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

I've mentioned this before, but really the only fair and ethical to do this would be something on a large and devastating scale like nuclear war. I'm all for a reset button, and eugenics is certainly a great idea, but you have to remove ethics from the equation completely to justify it. All people are different and not all are born smart, the problem is that most people choose stupidity, ignorance and fear. Life is simply easier when you don't have to question things, examine your surroundings or your inner self, and it's awfully trendy to be brain dead these days. Kids strive to be like their retarded celebrity idols, and who could blame them? At some point, the system was broken and allowed the idiotic to succeed not in spite of that idiocy, but because of it. Given the choice, people would almost always opt for the path that was both easy and lucrative, which actually says a great deal about our free market economy as well. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

I can tell you definitely gave this idea some serious thought. I also appreciate that fact that you are willing to see the bigger picture. Most people like you said are too caught up with materialistic things and furthering their own agenda with no concern for the effects it has on people around them. It's shame this has became the standard of today's society and is considered normal and it's also a shame that we isolate people based on what we consider normal and abnormal. I do not agree with way today's society is designed and furthermore it's absurd how few people see this world for what it really is and even fewer are willing to do something about it. I'm ready for change, I just wish I could do it on my own since at least I would know I could try even if I didn't succeed.

[Viking]

There is a better solution. Take warning labels off of things and let stupid people naturally die out. Let people die who do stupid things. If somebody walks out in front of a car, let them get hit. If you let nature take it's course, things will work themselves out. Hopefully.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

Too bad medical science has come so far. If we didn't have the medical knowledge we have nowadays that would work but then I'd be out of a job.(I'm a paramedic, well EMT I'm not a paramedic just yet but if I complete this class I will be in December)

[RelentlessOblivion]

Your ideal world BFM is no better then the one we presently live in. You would rule through fear until such time as the people you rule over rise against you and your so-called utopia collapses into absolute anarchy and the end of the human race. A violent upheaval can not succeed. Reforming the human race will be a slow process and that is the way it must be lest we cause the collapse of the system. If influential people can change the manner in which the masses think only then could a true utopia be built. This is incredibly unlikely to ever happen of course but any other method can not possibly succeed. The world you propose would be exactly like Orwell's 1984.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

In the world I'm thinking of there would be no rulers. Everyone would govern themselves, and what I proposed was that we institute eugenics, weed out the weak and continue to support the strong and intelligent. Yes it's a harsh and extreme solution and yes it would involve useing fear against people but in the end it would work. The people who were smart enough to understand it would condone it and help suppress those of less intellect. Something drastic must be done in time such as these my friend and simply trying to educate people will not work, it would be like trying to educate a primate to read. It's too late and most of humanity and fallen to far into stupidity and now the only thing that can save us from ourselves is if someone comes in and takes control, that is the only option at this point. I wish there was and easier and less violent way but we have sunken into too deep a hole and cannot get out without help from outside influence.

[Viking]

A lot of the problem these days is all the race baiting and greed going on. People in power try to divide us.

[RelentlessOblivion]

BFM once again I feel you are wrong. Why would the most intelligent people accept and condone permanent slavery? You would NEED to control every aspect of society and that requires an individual ruler or a select group of rulers. Left to their own devices the citizens of your utopia would form factions and fight amongst themselves forcing you to step in and control their actions thus causing the most intelligent to lead a revolt against the system causing its collapse. As I said there is almost no chance of redirecting humanity through education however this is the only menas by which a sustainable utopia could be built so far as I am concerned. If you are determined to build a world with only the most intelligent that is the only way to do it. If on the other hand you are willing to modify your position then the ideal solution has already been discussed by Aldous Huxley. The Brave New World model with a few tweaks would prove absolutely perfect as it fosters tolerence and retains individual freedom. The downside of course is that you do need to allow for a controlled level of stupidity in order for the system to function,

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

Not permanent just temporary and if the masses are intelligent enough they would know where forming factions would lead to, so that reasoning alone would be enough to stop that from happening. There would be only one faction Humanity. We would all unite under one banner for one cause the furthering and long term survival of our race. Once everyone was deemed sufficiently intelligent the control would slowly cease and humanity would learn a little bit at a time how to govern themselves with minimal interference only when absolutely necessary and when authorized by the people.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Intelligent people are crafty sorts. What makes you thing that filtering power throghout your society won't cause the most intelligent to band together and make a play for all the power after being subjects to a supreme power for so long? More importantly what makes you think such a play could be prevented so easily? You assume that intelligence breeds contentment when in fact the opposite is inevitably true. Appeasing the masses is a more efficient system. Brave New World works because the people are intelligent enough to act for themselves but stupid enough to not challenge the system. It is the only logical solution there is no fear to breed anger and hate leading to an uprising. The ruling class can seek to further humanity and each class of people feel as though they are accomplishing something. Such a model is what I would call a Utopia-like Dystopia.

[BlackFuckingMetal666]

But with that goes important thing such as philosophy and free thinking albeit unbeknownst to the masses since they do not possess the full potential of intelligence. Your idea of living with stupidity is just that stupidity as it work take a considerable amount of more time and resources to solve certain problems that would sure to arise. Now I know both of our plans have major flaws but the one thing that I cannot stand about your is the simplicity of it. It is the easy way out at least that's how I feel

[RelentlessOblivion]

You fail to take into account certain modifications I would make to that model. The removal of materials which promote free-thinking as seen in the book would not occur in my model they would be supplied to those capable of understanding them. Simplicity should not be confused with efficiency. The method I propose could be implemented with greater ease then you think. This is all hypothetical of course as it is so far from likely any group could gain sufficient influence to put into place either one of our proposed models but I feel man such as we currently stand would be more willing to accept a peaceful model then one which requires the overwhelming majority forfeit their lives.