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Cradle of Filth

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EDITED TO INCLUDE 'CRYPTORIANA'.

Due to discussion taking place all over this forum in other threads - like a parasite - I thought it would be useful to have a proper Cradle of Filth thread. I've created it here in the Gothic Metal forum because I think given their penchant for a more romantic and (extreme) gothic atmosphere they probably fit here better than anywhere else. I certainly wouldn't class them as a black metal band, but I know some people do. If any moderator finds fault with this placing, then please amend. 

To start things off I'll just re-post my assessment of their albums, then I guess we can carry on any conversations about Cradle here in the one place.

 

Requiem's (Epic Post) Cradle of Filth Albums From Worst to Best

Few bands in the metal landscape cause such division as the evil elf Dani and his band of interchangeable knob-jobs. Here are the lows to highs as seen by (out of the closet) goth Requiem, a fan of the band for 23 years.

13. Damnation and a Day (2003)

Oh dear oh dear. Firstly, 'Damnation...' is the band's Sony debut and swansong, and it's dire. There are two men to blame for this: the first is Doug Cook for one of the world's worst production jobs, (check out the velvety patter of the kick drums and the power-tool-through-a-wet-blanket guitars). The other is guitarist and riff-writer Paul Allender who turned a once lush band into the driest desert imaginable. For years I struggled to find a proper adjective to describe this guy's riffs, and believe it or not, I found it in the youtube comments section when someone referred to his riffs as 'dry'. I thought, that's it exactly. They're dry. More on him later. 'Damnation...' is bloated at 77 long minutes of boredom. Even the orchestral interludes are shite. What a disaster. Album cover is pretty cool. 

 12. Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa (2010) 

What a weird album this is. The terrible computer album cover looks shite and relates to nothing much, and the songs here are largely similar. 'The Persecution Song', is probably the best here, and I enjoy it for sure, but there's not much else happening. Paul Allender has lost his mojo, Dani doesn't know what the fuck he's doing. I accidentally bought two versions of this album which is more fool me. I wish they'd forever fuck off those computer covers. I swore twice in this mini-review, which tells you something about the album. Worst album cover ever. 

11. The Manticore and Other Horrors (2012)

 'Manticore' is pretty well produced, and doesn't entirely suck, but no one in their right mind is going to reach for this at a party or when they want to hear some Cradle of Filth in their home. Just listen to the intro to get a sense of what is wrong with it. That farting keyboard sound and then some unspooky keyboard janglings. Jeez this sucks. 'Frost on Her Pillow' is a cool song. The only thing worse is the album artwork which is just deplorable and unbecoming of this band. I don't understand why they don't protect their image. 

10. Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder (2008)

The only reason this album doesn't sit in the same cesspool as the ones mentioned above is because the first two songs 'Shat out of Hell' and 'The Death of Love' are bloody marvellous. The album cover is an abomination (check it out - it's terrible), and the rest of this is poor to below average. Partly composed by computer-orchestra stool sample Mark Newby-Robson, who isn't even in the band, these are works of mediocrity. Seriously, how Paul Allender lasted so long in this band is anyone's guess. He seems a competent enough guitarist, but his riffs are just dry, chugging, and banal. As stated, moronic album cover from a complete incompetent who should be expelled immediately from his first year university computer graphics course. 

9. Thornography (2006)

This is actually not a bad album and I do enjoy parts of it. Its best moment is 'The Byronic Man' with Ville Valo from HIM providing guest vocals. The fact that he's turning up on this album says a lot about where Cradle in 2006 were = pretty lost. 'Lovesick for Mina' (as in Mina Harker from 'Dracula) is also very impressive. There are some smart gothic metal songs here and I like this album a lot. This is a decent collection of songs, and well above the albums listed above. Silly album cover but I can roll with it. 

8. Nymphetamine (2004)

A surprisingly good album in parts, but oh so boring in the long-run. The title track is killer with Liv Kristine (ex Theatre of Tragedy) providing guest vocals, and more gothic songs like 'English Fire' sound romantic and beautiful. 'Absinthe with Faust' is just a fantastic gothic metal song. Opener 'Gilded Cunt' is absolutely amazing if you ask me. Great song. There's plenty of filler material on this though, don't worry about that, and at 75 minutes you're going to want to top yourself before you reach the end. Excellent album cover of a hot girl that perfectly chimes with the album's theme.

7.  Cryptoriana (2017)

Edit: I'm re-writing this little mini-review, because after being super hot for this album, then a little colder, placing it after 'Nymphetamine' in the rankings, I've finally seen the light. This is a wonderful album and deserves to be at number 7 - even equal 6 with 'Hammer'. Jeez, it could even go higher. The Maidenesque melodies that pop up here and there are so emotional and effective, the production is incredible and those lead guitars are just next level. The emotion in songs like 'Heartbreak and Seance' and the bonus track 'Night in Catafalque Manor' is superb. Still a corny album cover, but I guess you can't have everything. 

6. Hammer of the Witches (2015)

A huge breath of fresh air with the two new guitarists, this is a fantastic album. It would be much higher on the list but we're coming to classic Cradle so it stays at number six. The twin guitar sound is back and the orchestration is fitting and artistically honest. God it makes a difference. This album is really really good. Great song about the Crusades too in 'Onward Christian Soldiers'. One of my favourite moments in dark music occurs twice in 'Deflowering the Maidenhead...' during that quiet keyboardy moment with the line "This judgement has come from on high". Spine-tingling. Amazing album cover. One of their best. 

5. The Principle of Evil Made Flesh (1994)

The debut gets a lot more praise than I think it really deserves. It's exciting as hell, no doubt, and those keyboard interludes back in 1996 (when I first heard the album) were stunning. The roughness is a bit of a problem though, because I've never considered Cradle a black metal band, and I don't think they really do the blackish thing very well. Still, credit where it's due, and for a bunch of teenagers to manage to create something so iconic (check out that unmatched cover art) is quite something. Best album cover I've ever seen basically. 

4. Midian (2000)

The last great album before they chased the Sony dollars (well, pounds I guess). This has a new drummer in Adrian Erlandsson, and Paul Allender isn't able to ruin it because Gian Pyres is still here from 'Cruelty' keeping the riffs hot. There are some magic moments on this album. Check out the interlude/bridge narration in 'Lord Abortion', or the end of 'Tortured Soul Asylum'. Just an amazing album. Corny album cover. That cockroach man is an abomination. Jesus Christ. 

3. V Empire (1996)

Supposedly an EP, but at 36:25 it's longer than 'Reign in Blood' and 'Rubber Soul', so I'm calling it an album. This is the first I heard of the band when it just came out and my friends and I were floored. 'The Forest Whispers My Name', much improved since 'Principle..' launches into 'Queen of Winter, Throned', and there is just a sense of excitement and quality to the whole thing. I remember hearing this for the first time, clear as day. Fabulous album cover. 

2. Cruelty and the Beast (1998) 

This isn't just a fantastic Cradle album, it's a British metal classic. Nick Barker's last album with the band (gosh he would be missed), the epic scope of this album is virtually still unmatched to this day. The songs are epic, melodic, and most of all meaningful. It just makes sense. You listen to this and it just sounds right. The lyrics are just incredible and I'm still in awe twenty years later. If there's a better gothic metal song that 'Cruelty Brought Thee Orchids' then I've yet to hear it. The 'Bathory Aria' is also a masterpiece. Cover is very nice. Damn this album is great. 

1. Dusk and Her Embrace (1996)

Their meisterwerk. From the haunting album artwork to a production so delicious you can lick it up, this is the true gothic metal classic. 'A Gothic Romance', 'Funeral in Carpathia' and the title track. Wow. This album is all tangled up with great memories for me, but even now when I put it on the quality shines through. When those opening gothic keyboards of 'Humana Inspired to Nightmare' begin I'm transported. One of my favourite album covers of all time, the ghostly woman in front of the river with the manor house on the hill - it doesn't get any better than that in gothic metal. The perfect album. 

 

Special mention to Dani Filth's lyrics. He cops a lot of crap - perhaps rightly - for his odd gnomish ways, but if you're into dark poetry check out 'Cruelty Brought Thee Orchids', 'A Gothic Romance' and 'Lord Abortion'. The rhymes, the puns, the play on words that incorporate cheeky Shakespearean and Byronic phrases all suggest a genuinely gifted writer.

An example: "I should compare thee to a warm summer's day, but to the letter, it is better to lichen her name to a grave". First we have the basic line from a Shakespearean sonnet, then the rhyming of letter and better, then the pun of liken/lichen, with the implication of this person's name being inscribed on a mossy tombstone. I mean, christ, it's brilliant. 

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Cradle of Filth definitely belongs here. While they began as a death metal band, they added Gothic elements early on which overtook their sound by the time they started releasing albums. Some black metal crept in, a significant amount on Vempire through Cruelty, and while it stayed and has continued to be an influence, they've always been a Gothic metal band by and large.

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I completely agree and I've never understood why it has been so hard for people to classify them. I mean, they have a plethora of influences (death, black, thrash, classical, Iron Maiden etc) but in terms of musical style, lyrics, imagery, they are more gothic than 99.9% of the bands out there and this speaks to their 'essence' as a band hence why I've always simply labeled them gothic metal. I appreciate the fact that they never tried to sound like any other genre or band but themselves. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Requiem, what are your thoughts on the album Midnight in the Labyrinth? I never gave it a proper listen but everything I heard sounded like absolute rubbish. Like horridly done, amateur re-interpretations for a low-budget film score. 

And earlier you wrote about Dani's gnomish ways. Do you remember the tiff between Marilyn Manson and Dani? Manson had apparently remarked about meeting a lil guy in a Marilyn Manson costume or something along those lines, lol. 

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On 27/08/2017 at 5:01 PM, Vampyrique said:

Requiem, what are your thoughts on the album Midnight in the Labyrinth? I never gave it a proper listen but everything I heard sounded like absolute rubbish. Like horridly done, amateur re-interpretations for a low-budget film score. 

And earlier you wrote about Dani's gnomish ways. Do you remember the tiff between Marilyn Manson and Dani? Manson had apparently remarked about meeting a lil guy in a Marilyn Manson costume or something along those lines, lol. 

I didn't see this message partly because I haven't been online and partly because you didn't tag me so I'd notice! 

I'm glad you raised the 'Midnight in the Labyrinth' debacle because I, of course, bought it when it came out and was prepared to listen to a double disk worth of epic orchestral grandeur. Instead I got a double disk of Casio keyboards/commodore 64 standard computer music. I believe I once wittily referred to Mark Newby-Robson as a human stool sample, and I think he's won that description here. Ok that's a little harsh - he probably makes woollen coats for orphans or something - but he just isn't great at creating computer music that sounds good. 

I actually put this release on again the other day as it had been ages since I heard it, and I didn't hate it quite so much as I used to, but it has such a cut-price bargain-basement sound that the whole thing is cheapened. I wonder what Dani thinks of it. If they were going to do a project like this, they should have used a proper orchestra. Of course, the cost of something like that is prohibitive, but they're better off not doing it if it's going to sound like a guy mouse-clicking his computer. 

It's the same keyboard/computer lifelessness that sullies the albums from about 'Thornography' to 'Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa'. Somewhere along the line people forgot what the point of a piano or violin is - to create beauty and authentic emotional experience. If you have a cheap rip-off of those things, like Booby-Jobson's computer - you end up with cheap rip-off emotion. 

I love the cheap keyboards of 'Daudi Baldrs' or the final track on Satyricon's 'The Shadowthrone', because they have atmosphere and make sense in context. If you're trying a huge orchestral symphony then the same tools won't work. 

Like I say, though, I've come to peace with the sound of it a little bit these days. I don't hate it, but it could have been so, so much better. 

 

 

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4 hours ago, Requiem said:

I didn't see this message partly because I haven't been online and partly because you didn't tag me so I'd notice! 

I'm glad you raised the 'Midnight in the Labyrinth' debacle because I, of course, bought it when it came out and was prepared to listen to a double disk worth of epic orchestral grandeur. Instead I got a double disk of Casio keyboards/commodore 64 standard computer music. I believe I once wittily referred to Mark Newby-Robson as a human stool sample, and I think he's won that description here. Ok that's a little harsh - he probably makes woollen coats for orphans or something - but he just isn't great at creating computer music that sounds good. 

I actually put this release on again the other day as it had been ages since I heard it, and I didn't hate it quite so much as I used to, but it has such a cut-price bargain-basement sound that the whole thing is cheapened. I wonder what Dani thinks of it. If they were going to do a project like this, they should have used a proper orchestra. Of course, the cost of something like that is prohibitive, but they're better off not doing it if it's going to sound like a guy mouse-clicking his computer. 

It's the same keyboard/computer lifelessness that sullies the albums from about 'Thornography' to 'Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa'. Somewhere along the line people forgot what the point of a piano or violin is - to create beauty and authentic emotional experience. If you have a cheap rip-off of those things, like Booby-Jobson's computer - you end up with cheap rip-off emotion. 

I love the cheap keyboards of 'Daudi Baldrs' or the final track on Satyricon's 'The Shadowthrone', because they have atmosphere and make sense in context. If you're trying a huge orchestral symphony then the same tools won't work. 

Like I say, though, I've come to peace with the sound of it a little bit these days. I don't hate it, but it could have been so, so much better. 

 

 

I never bought it because I was very skeptical. I didn't understand why the band was so excited for this idea. But I hadn't really realized the role that Mark Newby-Robson had played in (ruining) Cradle of Filth until you kept mentioning him. Then I looked up his discography and it's no wonder I never liked the symphonic aspects and choir arrangements on those albums - actually they were decent on Thornography. But where did he even come from? I remember one time I contacted Paul Allender online and told him the whole symphonic thing was sounding played out and very stale and that they should just focus on keyboards and organs again. I mean, it really hit me when Darkly came out that Cradle was sounding so utterly generic in that department. Aside from maybe a few good moments, Nooby-Robson is pretty terrible. You're right, I expect this sub-level of quality from a low budget video game score. Actually, midi tracks of CoF songs sound a lot better than his orchestration. And dungeon synth is very cool aesthetically and is full of nostalgia, fantasy and atmosphere.  

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, Vampyrique said:

I never bought it because I was very skeptical. I didn't understand why the band was so excited for this idea. But I hadn't really realized the role that Mark Newby-Robson had played in (ruining) Cradle of Filth until you kept mentioning him. Then I looked up his discography and it's no wonder I never liked the symphonic aspects and choir arrangements on those albums - actually they were decent on Thornography. But where did he even come from? I remember one time I contacted Paul Allender online and told him the whole symphonic thing was sounding played out and very stale and that they should just focus on keyboards and organs again. I mean, it really hit me when Darkly came out that Cradle was sounding so utterly generic in that department. Aside from maybe a few good moments, Nooby-Robson is pretty terrible. You're right, I expect this sub-level of quality from a low budget video game score. Actually, midi tracks of CoF songs sound a lot better than his orchestration. And dungeon synth is very cool aesthetically and is full of nostalgia, fantasy and atmosphere.  

 

 

 

Yeah, it got to the point where the band had intros and musical interludes that were written and performed by a guy who isn't even in the band. They were just meaningless noises. *insert random orchestral piece here*.

It's like he had them pre-written and Dani calls up: "Yo Nooby, I need three orchestral pieces for the new album. No, don't worry about context or style, just email them through and I'll throw them on the album at tracks  1, 6 and the outro. Nah man, continuity doesn't matter, they're just stocking fillers. Yeah, Allender has run out of riff ideas again so we need to bulk the album out with computer keyboards. Nah, the kids don't mind, they just like the image. Alright, catch up soon. Bye."

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1 hour ago, Requiem said:

Yeah, it got to the point where the band had intros and musical interludes that were written and performed by a guy who isn't even in the band. They were just meaningless noises. *insert random orchestral piece here*.

It's like he had them pre-written and Dani calls up: "Yo Nooby, I need three orchestral pieces for the new album. No, don't worry about context or style, just email them through and I'll throw them on the album at tracks  1, 6 and the outro. Nah man, continuity doesn't matter, they're just stocking fillers. Yeah, Allender has run out of riff ideas again so we need to bulk the album out with computer keyboards. Nah, the kids don't mind, they just like the image. Alright, catch up soon. Bye."

Mark probably did have them pre-written. Probably years worth of film scores that were soundly rejected by all the direct-to-dvd and video game companies. Dani probably bumped into Mark at the grocery and heard him whistling some tunes. And later on Dani persuaded him with "We just need it to sound token. Roadrunner invested all of their money into Nickelback so we can't afford a real orchestra. We're using what little money we have to pay for some cutting edge artwork." 

And speaking of Paul. Recently in an interview Dani actually said something hilarious. He talked about how Cradle had been meaning to cover Allison Hell for about 20 years except that Cradle hadn't had a band that had been "talented enough" until now. I wonder who was in the band for nearly the whole time? And I'm sure he wasn't referring to the bass and drum parts to that song...  

 

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54 minutes ago, Vampyrique said:

Mark probably did have them pre-written. Probably years worth of film scores that were soundly rejected by all the direct-to-dvd and video game companies. Dani probably bumped into Mark at the grocery and heard him whistling some tunes. And later on Dani persuaded him with "We just need it to sound token. Roadrunner invested all of their money into Nickelback so we can't afford a real orchestra. We're using what little money we have to pay for some cutting edge artwork." 

And speaking of Paul. Recently in an interview Dani actually said something hilarious. He talked about how Cradle had been meaning to cover Allison Hell for about 20 years except that Cradle hadn't had a band that had been "talented enough" until now. I wonder who was in the band for nearly the whole time? And I'm sure he wasn't referring to the bass and drum parts to that song...  

 

That is provocative of Dani. Love the 'cutting edge artwork' comment. Can't believe you and I started this Cradle of Filth thread to talk about a band we actually like and all we're doing is throwing shade at them hahaha. Well, at Newby-Robson at least. 

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On 9/2/2017 at 4:33 AM, Requiem said:

That is provocative of Dani. Love the 'cutting edge artwork' comment. Can't believe you and I started this Cradle of Filth thread to talk about a band we actually like and all we're doing is throwing shade at them hahaha. Well, at Newby-Robson at least. 

We're only critical because we knew they were capable of so much more. And the dynamics of a band can be pretty interesting. 

It's very provocative. I sense there's some bad blood there. 

I'm sure Paul got tired of Dani telling him to make the riffs sound like they did on Cruelty - the one album that Paul had nothing to do with! I find it interesting that Paul's ego meant that he alone had to write all the guitar parts for a few years, whilst criticizing other bands for sounding generic, only to basically admit later on that he wasn't even really that excited by the riffs he was writing in Cradle and had to form a new band to get the fire back. So he suddenly moves to Minnesota and finds a vocalist that almost exclusively uses terrible 'demonic' vocal effects and she leaves shortly after because she can't take his ego, lol. Now what is Paul going to do? I predict he'll be begging Dani for a job (of any sort) in a couple of years.  

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I enjoy a bit of Cradle, my faves are 'Dusk', 'Cruelty', 'Midian' and I like that 'Cradle to Enslave' EP too. One of my favourite songs of theirs is 'Twisted Nails of Faith', I think it's fantastic, great lyrics. I think Dani's a genius anyway, even though I don't so much dig their more recent stuff.

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5 hours ago, natassja7 said:

I enjoy a bit of Cradle, my faves are 'Dusk', 'Cruelty', 'Midian' and I like that 'Cradle to Enslave' EP too. One of my favourite songs of theirs is 'Twisted Nails of Faith', I think it's fantastic, great lyrics. I think Dani's a genius anyway, even though I don't so much dig their more recent stuff.

The older I get and the further I go down this metal path the more I'm convinced that the three albums you mentioned are some of the best music I've ever heard. 

I recently purchased 'Dusk and Her Embrace - The Original Sin' which is the original version of that album that was recorded back in 1995 and shelved, and I've been listening to it. It's really interesting and cool, but ultimately the songs feel like demo versions of what would later appear on 'Dusk'. But what it has really brought home to me is just how good these songs are. Even in their inferior state on this release, they have the magic. 

When I put the 'real' Dusk album on it's truly awe inspiring.

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5 hours ago, Requiem said:

The older I get and the further I go down this metal path the more I'm convinced that the three albums you mentioned are some of the best music I've ever heard. 

I recently purchased 'Dusk and Her Embrace - The Original Sin' which is the original version of that album that was recorded back in 1995 and shelved, and I've been listening to it. It's really interesting and cool, but ultimately the songs feel like demo versions of what would later appear on 'Dusk'. But what it has really brought home to me is just how good these songs are. Even in their inferior state on this release, they have the magic. 

When I put the 'real' Dusk album on it's truly awe inspiring.

Those early albums are definitely among the best music I've ever heard. 

The Original Sin wasn't what I was expecting it to be. Dani had been talking about this for years... I was hoping for something more like Principle - some sort of primitive death metal with incredible gothic atmospheres. Buy you're right, we instead we got Dusk and Her Demos which is still pretty good. I think I like the intro on A Gothic Romance a little more on The Original Sin because it's a bit darker. Otherwise, I prefer the proper release. 

 

2 hours ago, natassja7 said:

'Funeral in Carpathia' is an amazing track.  I may have to purchase the album you mentioned actually :) In fact I'm gonna have to go listen to 'Dusk' now.

Don't forget to buy the Japanese edition too! It's the one with Carmilla's Masque, Nocturnal Supremacy '96, and Hell Awaits. 

 

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16 hours ago, Vampyrique said:

Those early albums are definitely among the best music I've ever heard. 

The Original Sin wasn't what I was expecting it to be. Dani had been talking about this for years... I was hoping for something more like Principle - some sort of primitive death metal with incredible gothic atmospheres. Buy you're right, we instead we got Dusk and Her Demos which is still pretty good. I think I like the intro on A Gothic Romance a little more on The Original Sin because it's a bit darker. Otherwise, I prefer the proper release. 

 

Don't forget to buy the Japanese edition too! It's the one with Carmilla's Masque, Nocturnal Supremacy '96, and Hell Awaits. 

 

I've been listening to 'The Original Sin' quite a bit.

I'm actually pretty glad that they didn't release it properly at the time because when I consider what they would go on to actually put out with both 'V Empire' and the real 'Dusk and Her Embrace', it's a vastly inferior recording. I noticed too that many of the lyrics have been re-written and refined between versions, all of them for the better. I think the shedding of the 'Principle' band members with the exception of Nick Barker (and the re-introduction of good old Robin Graves) was a good thing because if you listen to the performances on 'The Original Sin', they're a touch rough. The musicianship on the real version is far superior. 

As for the intro for 'A Gothic Romance', I was thinking about your words as I cruised the gothic streets of Melbourne at night while listening to it. I definitely prefer the actual version. The version on 'The Original Sin' is cool and everything, but doesn't quite have the windswept romanticism of the string sound of the true version. 

As a release 'The Original Sin' is definitely a great curiosity and it's a lot of fun, but it's a shadow of the version they would go on to release. 

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21 hours ago, Requiem said:

I've been listening to 'The Original Sin' quite a bit.

I'm actually pretty glad that they didn't release it properly at the time because when I consider what they would go on to actually put out with both 'V Empire' and the real 'Dusk and Her Embrace', it's a vastly inferior recording. I noticed too that many of the lyrics have been re-written and refined between versions, all of them for the better. I think the shedding of the 'Principle' band members with the exception of Nick Barker (and the re-introduction of good old Robin Graves) was a good thing because if you listen to the performances on 'The Original Sin', they're a touch rough. The musicianship on the real version is far superior. 

As for the intro for 'A Gothic Romance', I was thinking about your words as I cruised the gothic streets of Melbourne at night while listening to it. I definitely prefer the actual version. The version on 'The Original Sin' is cool and everything, but doesn't quite have the windswept romanticism of the string sound of the true version. 

As a release 'The Original Sin' is definitely a great curiosity and it's a lot of fun, but it's a shadow of the version they would go on to release. 

Speaking of ex-band members, did you like the band they formed? Cradle of Anathema... I mean The Blood Divine. 

I'm not entirely sure what to think about the production of The Original Sin. It's certainly rough but at the same time it may have been a victim of too much EQ-ing because it sounds a bit strange to me. I was surprised at how different Dani sounded. It was like he was channeling his inner Quorthon.  

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1 hour ago, Vampyrique said:

Speaking of ex-band members, did you like the band they formed? Cradle of Anathema... I mean The Blood Divine. 

I'm not entirely sure what to think about the production of The Original Sin. It's certainly rough but at the same time it may have been a victim of too much EQ-ing because it sounds a bit strange to me. I was surprised at how different Dani sounded. It was like he was channeling his inner Quorthon.  

The Blood Divine's albums passed me by a little bit, but I did purchase their best of 'Rise Pantheon Dreams' back when that came out. Gosh it's been years since I've heard it! 'Rise Pantheon Dreams' I'm sure you know, is the title that Darren White was intending to call what later became Anathema's 'The Silent Enigma'. I think it's really cool that the name actually found the light of day. I'm really hoping that there is a lost tape out there with Darren singing to the material from 'The Silent Enigma' before he got booted out and Vincent took the mic. As much as I admire Darren and his voice, I think they probably made the right decision getting rid of him, as devastating as that would have been for him. 

Anyway, as for The Blood Divine, I really like the best of and I sort of wish I had the albums. I can't say I love it, but I find the vibe really cool, and it ticks the boxes as far as era, style and label (I'm in love with Peaceville). They're very much an in-between band and I don't think they really knew what they wanted to be. In fact, it's pretty much like what you'd expect from the 'Principle of Evil Made Flesh' line-up trying to write a rock record with the Anathema vocalist! Funny that. 

And as for 'The Original Sin', yeah, it would be interesting to find out how much messing around the sound got for this release. They made a huge jump in the quality of the performance and the sound quality from that to the real 'Dusk and Her Embrace', that's for sure! 

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On 9/7/2017 at 3:24 AM, Requiem said:

The Blood Divine's albums passed me by a little bit, but I did purchase their best of 'Rise Pantheon Dreams' back when that came out. Gosh it's been years since I've heard it! 'Rise Pantheon Dreams' I'm sure you know, is the title that Darren White was intending to call what later became Anathema's 'The Silent Enigma'. I think it's really cool that the name actually found the light of day. I'm really hoping that there is a lost tape out there with Darren singing to the material from 'The Silent Enigma' before he got booted out and Vincent took the mic. As much as I admire Darren and his voice, I think they probably made the right decision getting rid of him, as devastating as that would have been for him. 

Anyway, as for The Blood Divine, I really like the best of and I sort of wish I had the albums. I can't say I love it, but I find the vibe really cool, and it ticks the boxes as far as era, style and label (I'm in love with Peaceville). They're very much an in-between band and I don't think they really knew what they wanted to be. In fact, it's pretty much like what you'd expect from the 'Principle of Evil Made Flesh' line-up trying to write a rock record with the Anathema vocalist! Funny that. 

And as for 'The Original Sin', yeah, it would be interesting to find out how much messing around the sound got for this release. They made a huge jump in the quality of the performance and the sound quality from that to the real 'Dusk and Her Embrace', that's for sure! 

I don't know anything about the compilation but from looking at the tracklisting I see it has about three songs or so from Awaken and a lot more from Mystica. I've got both full-length albums from The Blood Divine. I don't really remember Mystica but Awaken is really good! It sounds like early Anathema with keyboards. Great atmosphere, I definitely recommend Awaken. One song has an intro which sounds like it could've been on Dusk. Actually, it reminds me of Carmilla's Masque.  

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On 07/09/2017 at 6:45 PM, Vampyrique said:

Speaking of ex-band members, did you like the band they formed? Cradle of Anathema... I mean The Blood Divine. 

I'm not entirely sure what to think about the production of The Original Sin. It's certainly rough but at the same time it may have been a victim of too much EQ-ing because it sounds a bit strange to me. I was surprised at how different Dani sounded. It was like he was channeling his inner Quorthon.  

What do you think of the cover art for 'The Original Sin'? It seems to be going for more of a battlefield/desolation vibe than the romanticism of 'Principle' and what would become 'Dusk'. The booklet artwork is much more gothic girl, albeit with a very heavy eastern vibe to it - almost Persian. It's an interesting choice of imagery and ultimately I like it. 

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5 hours ago, Requiem said:

What do you think of the cover art for 'The Original Sin'? It seems to be going for more of a battlefield/desolation vibe than the romanticism of 'Principle' and what would become 'Dusk'. The booklet artwork is much more gothic girl, albeit with a very heavy eastern vibe to it - almost Persian. It's an interesting choice of imagery and ultimately I like it. 

It's ok. I like the model and her outfit but not the rest. The cover art is also so dark I can barely see anything. I like the booklet images and the image on the back showing her crown. 

Have you seen the vinyl cover? I think it is a lot better and looks more like classic-era Cradle of Filth. 

 

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3 hours ago, Vampyrique said:

It's ok. I like the model and her outfit but not the rest. The cover art is also so dark I can barely see anything. I like the booklet images and the image on the back showing her crown. 

Have you seen the vinyl cover? I think it is a lot better and looks more like classic-era Cradle of Filth. 

 

Woah, I just checked it out. I hadn't see it before. It's really cool. I think I prefer the vinyl cover. Actually, this would be a pretty cool release to have on vinyl. 

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40 minutes ago, Requiem said:

Woah, I just checked it out. I hadn't see it before. It's really cool. I think I prefer the vinyl cover. Actually, this would be a pretty cool release to have on vinyl. 

I know, right? When I first saw the cover I thought "wait, what-the-fuck version did I buy then?" until I realized that it was exclusive to vinyl.  

 

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Requiem's Ranking of Cradle's EPs 

I was going to say "we" did the albums already, but I don't recall @Vampyrique's album list! ;) Anyway, let's give the EPs the old once over - Vampers I'd be happy to hear your thoughts: 

4. Evermore Darkly (2011)

At 43 minutes this is huge, but it's basically just a collection of demos from 'Dark Darkly Venus Aversa' with an intro, a new track, and something from the bland 'Midnight in the Labyrnth'. The demos are cunningly called 'Elder Versions' but they're fooling no one. Nor are they pleasing anyone, as the album versions aren't all that great anyway and these are far worse. The intro 'Transmission from Hell' is really cool, picking up radio signals from hell inside the earth. I can't remember anything about the new track 'Thank Your Lucky Scars'. Overall this is a strange release and at the end of the day, you have to ask "Why"? I own this but it sits gathering dust in the crypt. The album art is pretty cool, with that Parisienne looking lady sitting on a park bench. 

3. From the Cradle to Enslave (1999)

I think I like this EP a lot more than I do. I definitely love the title track and the cover of Anathema's 'Sleepless' which I'm rather ashamed to say I actually prefer to the original. Shhhh. But the rest of this is largely forgettable. I don't actually own this for some reason and I really should get around to buying it - it's definitely worth it for those two great songs. Terrible album artwork, with those less than creepy eyes in the darkness. 

2. Bitter Suites to Succubi (2001)

I feel like I dislike this release historically, but the fact is I actually like it a lot. At 49 minutes we have new songs and re-recordings of 'Principle...' tracks which are actually pretty cool. The version here of 'Summer Dying Fast' is great. New songs like 'Born in a Burial Gown' and 'Scorched Earth Erotica' are awesome too. The worst thing about this is the terrible album cover. It's their first true clanger but unfortunately not their last. 

1. V Empire (1996)

I rated this in my albums list and masterpieces don't need explaining twice. A+ album artwork.  

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I've actually never tried to rank the EPs before but I've got the same result as you.   

4. Evermore Darkly is basically rubbish if I'm judging the music portion. The EP should have been called "You Can't Polish a Turd, But You Can Roll It in Glitter" instead of the documentary. Nuff said. 

3. From the Cradle to Enslave is more of a typical EP with assorted songs and a very good one at that. They went for a different production here that lends the music some heaviness without eliminating the atmosphere. How many drummers played on this EP? The title track is one of their best. On my iPod I always tack on Dawn of Eternity. 

2. Bitter Suites to Succubi, despite being album-length, functions like an EP. The interludes are not very good by Cradle standards. All Hope in Eclipse, Born in a Burial Gown, Suicide and Other Comforts are excellent stuff. The rest is fairly good. On my iPod, I always tack on The Fire Still Burns (from Livebait) since it's from the same recording session. 

1. V Empire is classic Cradle of Filth and tied for best EP I've ever heard. It functions like an album and is just as convincing despite being about 36 mins or so. The first three tracks are especially good. I even favour this one over Dusk...  

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