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Requiem

Cradle of Filth

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I've always felt their strongest material was in the early days. I liked them as a symphonic/melodic BM band with goth tendencies as opposed to a Symphonic/Gothic metal band with BM leanings every now and then.


They’ve pretty much lost most of the symphonic elements now, retained the gothic & BM but added in a whole more trad heavy metal-style riffs. A huge improvement the last 2 albums. Love them both.

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On 23/02/2018 at 9:35 AM, blessed1 said:

nick was unreal

His work on ‘V Empire’, ‘Dusk and Her Embrace’, ‘Cruelty and the Beast’ and Dimmu’s ‘Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia’ are some of my all time favourite drum performances. They really help to make those albums the masterpieces they are. 

 

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His work on ‘V Empire’, ‘Dusk and Her Embrace’, ‘Cruelty and the Beast’ and Dimmu’s ‘Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia’ are some of my all time favourite drum performances. They really help to make those albums the masterpieces they are. 
 
I've never really been a big fan of the style of blast beats he uses, hitting the snare and bass drum at the same time instead of alternating. Also, I seem to remember many of his rapid bass drums rolls sounding rushed and out of time with the rest of the drums and band. The drums are the part of CoF I've always liked the least, they've always been about the guitars are keyboards for me.

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So I saw Cradle of Filth in Melbourne last weekend. Well, I saw most of the set as I came in late during the second track which annoyed me, because I usually make it my business to see the very start of the show when a band first hits the stage. 

Anyway, despite having a couple too many with the boys at the pub across the road, the show was excellent. Dani's vocals are really good, especially his high screams. He really locks in there and hits them. The band was great, especially the two newish guitar players. 

Because I hit my peak too early, I left before the end and got burgers. I regret it now and wish I had have held it together a bit longer so I could have seen the whole show. I later looked up the setlist and it was really good. So I'll put this one down to having my priorities wrong when it came to the night. 

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On 5/20/2018 at 9:32 PM, Requiem said:

So I saw Cradle of Filth in Melbourne last weekend. Well, I saw most of the set as I came in late during the second track which annoyed me, because I usually make it my business to see the very start of the show when a band first hits the stage. 

Anyway, despite having a couple too many with the boys at the pub across the road, the show was excellent. Dani's vocals are really good, especially his high screams. He really locks in there and hits them. The band was great, especially the two newish guitar players. 

Because I hit my peak too early, I left before the end and got burgers. I regret it now and wish I had have held it together a bit longer so I could have seen the whole show. I later looked up the setlist and it was really good. So I'll put this one down to having my priorities wrong when it came to the night. 

Good to hear that they put on a good show. I saw them back on the Midian tour in Sydney and it was horrible. The sound was muffled & the band only played for about 45 minutes. Could very well have been the fault of the venue but was still a bit disappointing. As for priorities, i have taken the very same route myself more than once. 

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4 hours ago, Paragon_Belial said:

Good to hear that they put on a good show. I saw them back on the Midian tour in Sydney and it was horrible. The sound was muffled & the band only played for about 45 minutes. Could very well have been the fault of the venue but was still a bit disappointing. As for priorities, i have taken the very same route myself more than once. 

Maybe the Midian tour just sucked all around. I caught it here in the USA and had a very similar experience - bad sound, disappointing performances. It put me off of them for years.

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1 hour ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Maybe the Midian tour just sucked all around. I caught it here in the USA and had a very similar experience - bad sound, disappointing performances. It put me off of them for years.

When you look at the line-up for the ‘Midian’ tour it makes sense. New keyboard player (Powell), new drummer (Erlandsson), new (returning) guitar player (Allender); it seems quite likely that things weren’t clicking. And when you add in the ego factor of a band on top of the world commercially, it’s a recipe for, if not disaster, then a lack of focus and magic.

The band I saw the other night were, firstly, absolutely A grade musicians, and as much as I love the Midian lineup they just can’t compete musically with today’s members. Add to that a sense of hunger and professionalism, probably better live venues and crew, and the 2018 live Cradle experience understandably triumphs.

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15 minutes ago, Requiem said:

When you look at the line-up for the ‘Midian’ tour it makes sense. New keyboard player (Powell), new drummer (Erlandsson), new (returning) guitar player (Allender); it seems quite likely that things weren’t clicking. And when you add in the ego factor of a band on top of the world commercially, it’s a recipe for, if not disaster, then a lack of focus and magic.

The band I saw the other night were, firstly, absolutely A grade musicians, and as much as I love the Midian lineup they just can’t compete musically with today’s members. Add to that a sense of hunger and professionalism, probably better live venues and crew, and the 2018 live Cradle experience understandably triumphs.

All great points, i didn't really take this into account at the time. I already have a booked schedule but if they do make their way out here again and i'm available, i'll certainly give them another shot. 

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13 minutes ago, Requiem said:

When you look at the line-up for the ‘Midian’ tour it makes sense. New keyboard player (Powell), new drummer (Erlandsson), new (returning) guitar player (Allender); it seems quite likely that things weren’t clicking. And when you add in the ego factor of a band on top of the world commercially, it’s a recipe for, if not disaster, then a lack of focus and magic.

The band I saw the other night were, firstly, absolutely A grade musicians, and as much as I love the Midian lineup they just can’t compete musically with today’s members. Add to that a sense of hunger and professionalism, probably better live venues and crew, and the 2018 live Cradle experience understandably triumphs.

Gear has come a long way since then, too. I suppose we could guess that they just had trouble playing as a coherent unit, and that's definitely what it looked like, but it's strange considering all those guys were seasoned professionals by that point. My biggest gripe at that show was actually with the vocals. Aside from all the technical difficulties, Dani just couldn't keep up with his own parts. I'm glad to hear they're back on top, though.

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11 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Gear has come a long way since then, too. I suppose we could guess that they just had trouble playing as a coherent unit, and that's definitely what it looked like, but it's strange considering all those guys were seasoned professionals by that point. My biggest gripe at that show was actually with the vocals. Aside from all the technical difficulties, Dani just couldn't keep up with his own parts. I'm glad to hear they're back on top, though.

I’m wondering if Dani is a lot healthier these days, especially on long-haul tours. They must be hell on the throat if he’s partying like it’s 1999. He seemed fit and using great technique this year. Better mics and effects no doubt, too. 

With bands’ income coming mostly from tours these days I think the career guys like Dani are more savvy about what they need to do to keep things professional.

That’s why I was let down by Paradise Lost a few months ago. No real atmosphere, professionalism or care. Even Katatonia were more entertaining on stage earlier in the year, and that’s saying something.

So yeah I was impressed with Cradle. I used to think poorly of Dani as a bloke but I’ve got a lot of respect for him these days. Never met the guy, of course...

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One of the keys to enjoying Cradle of Filth is to ignore (most of the) band's image. This means that band photos should always be avoided and don't even think about watching a music video, let alone a documentary. 

In fact, I really wish Cradle didn't have this affinity with a sort of cyber-goth, contact lense, silly make-up image that they've been purveying for decades. When I hear most of these albums (say, the top 8 of my list on page one), I hear class and beauty. A quick flip through a magazine or the booklet and I see a bunch of goth nightclub rejects. It just doesn't compute. 

I think they would have a lot more street cred if they had an imagine more in line with, for instance, modern day Satyricon. Love or hate Sayticon's latest music, I think most of the album shots of Satyr and Frost over the last few years have looked really reserved, classy and cool. Cradle could do with that sort of make-over. 

It's a moot point, because I think Dani likes dressing up even more than he likes singing about Countesses, so I'm not holding my breath. 

Cheers to the music and lyrics! 

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On 6/23/2018 at 12:24 AM, Requiem said:

One of the keys to enjoying Cradle of Filth is to ignore (most of the) band's image. This means that band photos should always be avoided and don't even think about watching a music video, let alone a documentary. 

In fact, I really wish Cradle didn't have this affinity with a sort of cyber-goth, contact lense, silly make-up image that they've been purveying for decades. When I hear most of these albums (say, the top 8 of my list on page one), I hear class and beauty. A quick flip through a magazine or the booklet and I see a bunch of goth nightclub rejects. It just doesn't compute. 

I think they would have a lot more street cred if they had an imagine more in line with, for instance, modern day Satyricon. Love or hate Sayticon's latest music, I think most of the album shots of Satyr and Frost over the last few years have looked really reserved, classy and cool. Cradle could do with that sort of make-over. 

It's a moot point, because I think Dani likes dressing up even more than he likes singing about Countesses, so I'm not holding my breath. 

Cheers to the music and lyrics! 

Naturally, I'm quite fond of their image, some exceptions of course. I can see how the band pop-cultured their image over time: from vampires to Hellraiser-Scissorhands and beyond! It probably started with a conversation between CoF Management and Dani, circa 1998:

'So Dani, you know those puffy, frilly shirts you're always sporting; you know, the kind every hackneyed vampire, pirate, and poet wears? Yeah, save for Halloween, those went out of vogue about two centuries ago... but I hear 80s fashion is making a bit of a comeback now that the 90s are nearing an end...'

 

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12 hours ago, Vampyrique said:

Naturally, I'm quite fond of their image, some exceptions of course. I can see how the band pop-cultured their image over time: from vampires to Hellraiser-Scissorhands and beyond! It probably started with a conversation between CoF Management and Dani, circa 1998:

'So Dani, you know those puffy, frilly shirts you're always sporting; you know, the kind every hackneyed vampire, pirate, and poet wears? Yeah, save for Halloween, those went out of vogue about two centuries ago... but I hear 80s fashion is making a bit of a comeback now that the 90s are nearing an end...'

 

I wish he had never had that conversation with his management. I want the puffy shirts back.

The 1996-1998 image was easily the best. The Hellraiser-Scissorhands thing - which is a good label for it - stinks. It was about that time, too, that they started focusing on monsters ('Midian') rather than the romantic manor house hauntings of 'Vempire' and 'Dusk and Her Embrace'.

I think it was a visual move for the worse, supported by the fact (in my personal truth at least...) that their best songs over the next 10 years from 'Midian', and as proven on the last two albums, have been mostly in the romantic manor house vein anyway. 

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22 hours ago, Requiem said:

I wish he had never had that conversation with his management. I want the puffy shirts back.

The 1996-1998 image was easily the best. The Hellraiser-Scissorhands thing - which is a good label for it - stinks. It was about that time, too, that they started focusing on monsters ('Midian') rather than the romantic manor house hauntings of 'Vempire' and 'Dusk and Her Embrace'.

I think it was a visual move for the worse, supported by the fact (in my personal truth at least...) that their best songs over the next 10 years from 'Midian', and as proven on the last two albums, have been mostly in the romantic manor house vein anyway. 

I was fine with the Hellraiser-Scissorhands image, but there's no doubt that frilly puff will always prevail.  

Have you ever heard of a Australian podcast called Scars and Guitars? The guy who runs it did a great interview with CoF's brilliant former guitarist Stuart Anstis. Over the course of four hours they discussed many things including late 90s Cradle of Filth and the band drama therein. Defintely worth listening for all CoF diehards!    

If you get a chance to listen, it's podcast #155 on itunes or get it from their site: 

https://www.scarsandguitars.net/podcasts/  

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59 minutes ago, Vampyrique said:

I was fine with the Hellraiser-Scissorhands image, but there's no doubt that frilly puff will always prevail.  

Have you ever heard of a Australian podcast called Scars and Guitars? The guy who runs it did a great interview with CoF's brilliant former guitarist Stuart Anstis. Over the course of four hours they discussed many things including late 90s Cradle of Filth and the band drama therein. Defintely worth listening for all CoF diehards!    

If you get a chance to listen, it's podcast #155 on itunes or get it from their site: 

https://www.scarsandguitars.net/podcasts/  

Four hours! Amazing. I'll check this out for sure. Great find Vampers. 

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11 minutes ago, Requiem said:

Four hours! Amazing. I'll check this out for sure. Great find Vampers. 

It truly is. I've always thought Stuart was great, and I often wondered what Gian added to the band besides the odd black metal riff and looking cool like Peewee Herman in that Buffy the Vampire Slayer film.

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37 minutes ago, Vampyrique said:

It truly is. I've always thought Stuart was great, and I often wondered what Gian added to the band besides the odd black metal riff and looking cool like Peewee Herman in that Buffy the Vampire Slayer film.

I assumed Gian was pretty good because it was just he and Paul Allender playing on ‘Midian’ which is a great album. Plus his work on ‘Cruelty’ is brilliant. What’s wrong with Gian?

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2 hours ago, Requiem said:

I assumed Gian was pretty good because it was just he and Paul Allender playing on ‘Midian’ which is a great album. Plus his work on ‘Cruelty’ is brilliant. What’s wrong with Gian?

Stuart had a certain style and Paul did too. But with Gian, I could never really tell except in so far as him bringing more of a traditional black metal touch. According to Stuart, it turned out Gian was lazy and didn't contribute much, wasn't the most talented guy, and actually tried to take credit for songs he didn't write! Or something to that effect. I don't remember how it was said but something like that.

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So you’re saying Gian is presented as Lars Ulrich. Interesting. 

I honestly can’t tell the difference between the guitarists when they’re playing together. That’s the beauty of having two guitarists.

It’s only when Paul Allender is the sole guy that one I get a sense of specifics. 

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I'm listening to 'Thornography' now and it's quite amazing to think that this album, and the ones I rate below it, was produced by a band that is capable of so much greatness. 

I think a lot of it comes down to intent. It was clear that Dani had a sniff of mainstream success even after the 'Damnation and a Day' debacle, and this album does seem written for a more youthful audience than people like me. I was 26 when this came out and had lived through the glory days. 

There are also some odd production choices. The snare drums for instance sounds really flat pancake, and the guitar tone lacks moisture. Damn that's a dry guitar. It's also pretty amazing to think that Charles Hedger, who was playing second guitar to Paul Allender, ended up joining Mayhem after this. Tells you a lot about modern Mayhem too I'm thinking. They go from Euronymous to a guy called "Charles" who played on this (obviously not directly, but you get the picture)....

'The Byronic Man' is and will forever remain a gothic metal classic up there with Anathema's 'Sleepless' and Paradise Lost's 'As I Die' in my view. Great song. 

Overall, it's an ok listen. 

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On 1/3/2019 at 11:18 AM, ParisVixen said:

This thread is heaven to me since COF is my favorite band!! I have enjoyed just sitting back and reading everyone's comments on the band and their music and albums and such---this is the funnest thread to me!! 

And there's so much to discuss! Amazing band with so many members, albums, ups and downs. My third favourite band of all time with the recent release of 'Hammer of the Witches' and 'Cryptoriana' which really saved them in my eyes. 

So for me, 'Vempire, 'Dusk and Her Embrace', 'Cruelty and the Beast', 'Midian', 'Nymphetamine', 'Hammer of the Witches' and 'Cryptoriana' are all stunning albums that make up for their weaker moments and sometimes embarrassing image. This all adds up to Cradle of Filth being my third favourite 'band' when it comes to a purely musical assessment (which is how it should be). 

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