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Cradle of Filth


Requiem

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@Vampyrique let’s take it to the Cradle boudoir.

You mentioned the clattering drum sound as one of the things you didn’t like about ‘Thornography’, and I agree. 

I was thinking about Martin S and his drum sound the other day when I was listening to ‘Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa’ and ‘Manticore’. He is technically a phenomenal drummer, but his style and sound - especially his sound - has always left me cold. I just can’t appreciate his work as it seems to add nothing to the atmosphere and emotion. It’s weird. I think they are often too high in the mix but also too clattery as you say, and they just don’t fit the vibe.

For some reason they are so much more palatable on ‘Hammer’ and ‘Cryptoriana’ and I think it’s because they’ve pulled back on the shitty sound and they feel more in the pocket of the music. The production on those drums sounds so much better. Perhaps it’s just the improvement in songwriting, I don’t know. 

His earlier albums though, they’re just ball-less drums tapping away loudly. Annoying. 

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On 4/3/2019 at 1:29 AM, Requiem said:

@Vampyrique let’s take it to the Cradle boudoir.

You mentioned the clattering drum sound as one of the things you didn’t like about ‘Thornography’, and I agree. 

I was thinking about Martin S and his drum sound the other day when I was listening to ‘Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa’ and ‘Manticore’. He is technically a phenomenal drummer, but his style and sound - especially his sound - has always left me cold. I just can’t appreciate his work as it seems to add nothing to the atmosphere and emotion. It’s weird. I think they are often too high in the mix but also too clattery as you say, and they just don’t fit the vibe.

For some reason they are so much more palatable on ‘Hammer’ and ‘Cryptoriana’ and I think it’s because they’ve pulled back on the shitty sound and they feel more in the pocket of the music. The production on those drums sounds so much better. Perhaps it’s just the improvement in songwriting, I don’t know. 

His earlier albums though, they’re just ball-less drums tapping away loudly. Annoying. 

I agree with you about Martin. He's certainly talented and was instrumental in reinvigorating the band in helping them to unleash the beast that was Godspeed, but beyond that I've hardly cared. He can play fast and keeps very busy behind the drum kit, but I think that can sometimes be antithetical to the atmosphere of the music, which Cradle should always chiefly be about. 

Nick Barker seemed to have a better 'musical ear' by my estimation and never let his talent or speed overshadow the atmosphere. I think this is partially due to production choices too. Adrian was also very good, minus the drum sound on Thornography.

On the underrated side, I really liked Was' performance on the songs he did for the From the Cradle to Enslave EP. Although he may not have been as flashy, his punkier performance always left room for the music to breathe and the atmosphere to permeate. That release had a good balance between atmosphere and heaviness, whereas their older albums leaned towards atmosphere and their newer albums towards heaviness.

 

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On 4/6/2019 at 7:02 PM, Vampyrique said:

I agree with you about Martin. He's certainly talented and was instrumental in reinvigorating the band in helping them to unleash the beast that was Godspeed, but beyond that I've hardly cared. He can play fast and keeps very busy behind the drum kit, but I think that can sometimes be antithetical to the atmosphere of the music, which Cradle should always chiefly be about. 

Nick Barker seemed to have a better 'musical ear' by my estimation and never let his talent or speed overshadow the atmosphere. I think this is partially due to production choices too. Adrian was also very good, minus the drum sound on Thornography.

On the underrated side, I really liked Was' performance on the songs he did for the From the Cradle to Enslave EP. Although he may not have been as flashy, his punkier performance always left room for the music to breathe and the atmosphere to permeate. That release had a good balance between atmosphere and heaviness, whereas their older albums leaned towards atmosphere and their newer albums towards heaviness.

 

I need a computer to fully express my views on these drummers, so I’ll abstain from responding until I return to the mainland forthwith on the 18th. Fear my return. 

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  • 2 months later...

And I never did...

Anyway, I’ve just discovered that Cradle will be back in town in September to play ‘Cruelty and the Beast’ in its entirety. 

I’m a big fan of the ‘played in its entirety’ trend in general, so hearing this about one of the greatest albums in metal history is very exciting, especially with the ‘Cryptoriana’ line-up which I’m sure will do a stellar job. 

And I will eventually get around to writing about the Cradle drummers as mentioned above...

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  • 3 months later...

Where oh where is the reissue of Cruelty? Who is this mystery man responsible for the delay? Is it the same former band member that unexpectedly left? The one that Dani doesn't like mentioning anymore in interviews? The one who had nothing to do with this album?

Or the one with Aspergers who didn't get enough credit? Or the one who took credit for songs he didn't write? Or the one that Dani couldn't comment on as to why he left shortly after this album for legal reasons...

So many candidates, but I'm willing to bet Dani looked at the callender and felt apauled that a timely 20th anniversary release was missed.

And what to make of this album cover? It looks like a cheap photoshop edit, washed of colour and life. I don't know if the original photo looks that way or if her head was chopped and shopped in from another image.

filthcrre819.jpg?w=549&h=549

 

 

 

 

 

 

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16 hours ago, Vampyrique said:

Where oh where is the reissue of Cruelty? Who is this mystery man responsible for the delay? Is it the same former band member that unexpectedly left? The one that Dani doesn't like mentioning anymore in interviews? The one who had nothing to do with this album?

Or the one with Aspergers who didn't get enough credit? Or the one who took credit for songs he didn't write? Or the one that Dani couldn't comment on as to why he left shortly after this album for legal reasons...

So many candidates, but I'm willing to bet Dani looked at the callender and felt apauled that a timely 20th anniversary release was missed.

And what to make of this album cover? It looks like a cheap photoshop edit, washed of colour and life. I don't know if the original photo looks that way or if her head was chopped and shopped in from another image.

filthcrre819.jpg?w=549&h=549

 

 

That cover is utterly monstrous, for all the wrong reasons. This is yet another example of bad digital artwork used by this band. I don't get it. Anyone can look at that and realise there's something artistically wrong with it. Just as they could for 'Godspeed...', 'Darkly...' and 'Manticore....' etc. 

As to where the re-release is, let's hope it's gone up in flames in a bizarre studio fire. I'm not keen on the idea of tinkering with existing studio works - see my review of Mayhem's 'Grand Declaration of War' remix in the Mayhem thread. I think the production of 'Cruelty and the Beast' is perfect as is. Maybe not objectively, but it's perfect for what it is and gives a colder and more accurate sense of the exotic Hungarian mountains that contextualise the album than a fuller and warmer 'modern' production could ever do. 

And finally, I dedicate this list to @Vampyrique.

Requiem Ranks Cradle's Studio Drummers from Village Peasant to Lord of the Manor

4. Was Sarginson - 'From the Cradle to Enslave'. 

A little unfair calling old Was a peasant, but his short time in the band was tough because he was following up one of metal's great drummers. When 'From the Cradle...' came out in 1999 it was definitely pretty cool, but the lower standard of drumming was pretty obvious. He sort of clattered along at three quarter pace the whole time. I think they found him down the pub and dragged him into the studio. Hard to fill Barker's shoes. Then he was gone...

3. Adrian Erlandsson - 'Midian', 'Damnation and a Day', 'Nymphetamine' and 'Thornography'.

Erlandsson is a very good drummer, but he's no freak behind the kit. He's sort of workmanlike, plowing away with neither gravity defying speed nor haunting originality. The albums he plays on are generally really good, and you never listen to 'Midian' for instance and think "gee I wish they had a better drummer". So that's good. Still, as cool as this guy is, whether it's in At the Gates, Paradise Lost or Cradle, it's hard to get excited about his presence and it was no great tragedy when he left. 

2. Martin Skaroupka - 'Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder', 'Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa', 'The Manticore and Other Horrors', 'Hammer of the Witches' and 'Cryptoriana'. 

I'm glad Cradle released 'Hammer...' and 'Cryptoriana', because the three prior releases - and the first three of Martin's time in the band - are pretty dire. Martin is no doubt a beast behind the kit. He's technically amazing and full of energy and he rockets along like a... rocket. It's just that his tappy-tappy drum sound just made those mediocre albums worse and even emptier. It just goes to show how important quality material is in order to judge a drummer's true worth. His performances on 'Hammer...' and 'Cryptoriana' are fantastic and he complements those new guitar gods so well. The band fits now. 

1. Nicholas Barker - 'The Principle of Evil Made Flesh', 'Vempire', 'Dusk and Her Empire' and 'Cruelty and the Beast'.

But there can be only one! Nick Barker is as responsible for the Cradle template every bit as much as Dani and the 'Principle...' crew if you ask me. His confident speed, double kicks, cymbal-work and imperious x-factor quality helped to make these brilliant albums some of the best metal ever recorded. And then he leaves Cradle and ends up on Dimmu Borgir's amazing 'Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia'! I want to shake this man's hand and buy him a beer. Cheers Nick Barker. Cheers. 

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21 hours ago, Vampyrique said:

So many candidates, but I'm willing to bet Dani looked at the callender and felt apauled that a timely 20th anniversary release was missed.

 

I see a Paul Ryan (possibly) and a Paul Allender (certainly) reference here, and I'm reading between the lines harder than a Nazi code-breaker with full BBC access in 1943. 

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On 9/26/2019 at 10:41 PM, Requiem said:

That cover is utterly monstrous, for all the wrong reasons. This is yet another example of bad digital artwork used by this band. I don't get it. Anyone can look at that and realise there's something artistically wrong with it. Just as they could for 'Godspeed...', 'Darkly...' and 'Manticore....' etc. 

As to where the re-release is, let's hope it's gone up in flames in a bizarre studio fire. I'm not keen on the idea of tinkering with existing studio works - see my review of Mayhem's 'Grand Declaration of War' remix in the Mayhem thread. I think the production of 'Cruelty and the Beast' is perfect as is. Maybe not objectively, but it's perfect for what it is and gives a colder and more accurate sense of the exotic Hungarian mountains that contextualise the album than a fuller and warmer 'modern' production could ever do. 

And finally, I dedicate this list to @Vampyrique.

Requiem Ranks Cradle's Studio Drummers from Village Peasant to Lord of the Manor

4. Was Sarginson - 'From the Cradle to Enslave'. 

A little unfair calling old Was a peasant, but his short time in the band was tough because he was following up one of metal's great drummers. When 'From the Cradle...' came out in 1999 it was definitely pretty cool, but the lower standard of drumming was pretty obvious. He sort of clattered along at three quarter pace the whole time. I think they found him down the pub and dragged him into the studio. Hard to fill Barker's shoes. Then he was gone...

3. Adrian Erlandsson - 'Midian', 'Damnation and a Day', 'Nymphetamine' and 'Thornography'.

Erlandsson is a very good drummer, but he's no freak behind the kit. He's sort of workmanlike, plowing away with neither gravity defying speed nor haunting originality. The albums he plays on are generally really good, and you never listen to 'Midian' for instance and think "gee I wish they had a better drummer". So that's good. Still, as cool as this guy is, whether it's in At the Gates, Paradise Lost or Cradle, it's hard to get excited about his presence and it was no great tragedy when he left. 

2. Martin Skaroupka - 'Godspeed on the Devil's Thunder', 'Darkly Darkly Venus Aversa', 'The Manticore and Other Horrors', 'Hammer of the Witches' and 'Cryptoriana'. 

I'm glad Cradle released 'Hammer...' and 'Cryptoriana', because the three prior releases - and the first three of Martin's time in the band - are pretty dire. Martin is no doubt a beast behind the kit. He's technically amazing and full of energy and he rockets along like a... rocket. It's just that his tappy-tappy drum sound just made those mediocre albums worse and even emptier. It just goes to show how important quality material is in order to judge a drummer's true worth. His performances on 'Hammer...' and 'Cryptoriana' are fantastic and he complements those new guitar gods so well. The band fits now. 

1. Nicholas Barker - 'The Principle of Evil Made Flesh', 'Vempire', 'Dusk and Her Empire' and 'Cruelty and the Beast'.

But there can be only one! Nick Barker is as responsible for the Cradle template every bit as much as Dani and the 'Principle...' crew if you ask me. His confident speed, double kicks, cymbal-work and imperious x-factor quality helped to make these brilliant albums some of the best metal ever recorded. And then he leaves Cradle and ends up on Dimmu Borgir's amazing 'Puritanical Euphoric Misanthropia'! I want to shake this man's hand and buy him a beer. Cheers Nick Barker. Cheers. 

Terribly digital indeed, but we both know that even they know it only ever looked good on paper, written somewhere at the bottom of the page entitled 'Budget.'

I generally don't like nor trust remixed or remastered albums especially here because I read in an interview with Dani something about noise removal... In all my years of listening to that album I never thought there was a problem with anything, certainly not noise/bleedthrough. Maybe the drums do sound light and tinny, but to me that paves the way for more atmosphere and creates the impression that it truly was recorded in a castle in the Carpathians. Nevertheless, I am curious to hear it since it's been a talking point for years.

That's a good list. I think Was probably was found at a pub, but I enjoy his previous work with Cradle's cousins December Moon and The Blood Divine. It's a shame Nick Barker only gets credit for his speed when he does so much more. I have greater appreciation for drummers who use frequently use cymbals like he does. He may just be the drummer whose name is on more classic albums than any other drummer, at least according to myself.

 

 

On 9/27/2019 at 3:00 AM, Requiem said:

I see a Paul Ryan (possibly) and a Paul Allender (certainly) reference here, and I'm reading between the lines harder than a Nazi code-breaker with full BBC access in 1943. 

I was referring to Allender at the beginning of my post and near the end. Dani doesn't seem to like mentioning his name anymore. Plus, Dani gave a clue by associating that former member with Sony records and I know Paul is signed to Sony with his new band, and I think the remastered album was going to come out on Sony. However, I could be mistaken. I know there's a bit of bad blood with Stuart (the man with Aspergers) but I forget what he is doing these days. 

 

 

 

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On 9/28/2019 at 5:32 AM, Vampyrique said:

Terribly digital indeed, but we both know that even they know it only ever looked good on paper, written somewhere at the bottom of the page entitled 'Budget.'

I generally don't like nor trust remixed or remastered albums especially here because I read in an interview with Dani something about noise removal... In all my years of listening to that album I never thought there was a problem with anything, certainly not noise/bleedthrough. Maybe the drums do sound light and tinny, but to me that paves the way for more atmosphere and creates the impression that it truly was recorded in a castle in the Carpathians. Nevertheless, I am curious to hear it since it's been a talking point for years.

That's a good list. I think Was probably was found at a pub, but I enjoy his previous work with Cradle's cousins December Moon and The Blood Divine. It's a shame Nick Barker only gets credit for his speed when he does so much more. I have greater appreciation for drummers who use frequently use cymbals like he does. He may just be the drummer whose name is on more classic albums than any other drummer, at least according to myself.

 

 

I was referring to Allender at the beginning of my post and near the end. Dani doesn't seem to like mentioning his name anymore. Plus, Dani gave a clue by associating that former member with Sony records and I know Paul is signed to Sony with his new band, and I think the remastered album was going to come out on Sony. However, I could be mistaken. I know there's a bit of bad blood with Stuart (the man with Aspergers) but I forget what he is doing these days. 

 

Allender’s band is signed to Sony? Are they (Sony) crazy? 

Ah Stuart. Such great work back in the day. Sure he didn’t pick up social cues very well, but I’m surprised anyone noticed in 1995 Suffolk. 

I forgot Was played in The Blood Divine. Although I never trust anyone with a past tense name...

I need to read more Dani interviews, because I don’t know any of this stuff. Actually I never read/watch interviews at all. That needs to change. 

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@Requiem

The band that Paul joined is DiAmorte. It's some sort of cinematic and operatic style of metal with some extreme elements. They're signed to Sony.

Dani has been taking subtle jabs at Paul for a while now. Nothing too crazy but enough to let you know that there was some tension there. 

Did you ever listen to that epic interview with Stuart? One day out of nowhere he emerged from absolute obscurity and, probably due to his Aspergers, granted an Aussie interviewer an unexpected, unscripted four-hour marathon interview where he went into great detail regarding his time in the band and other matters.   

 

 

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1 hour ago, Vampyrique said:

 

 

Did you ever listen to that epic interview with Stuart? One day out of nowhere he emerged from absolute obscurity and, probably due to his Aspergers, granted an Aussie interviewer an unexpected, unscripted four-hour marathon interview where he went into great detail regarding his time in the band and other matters.   

 

Link or die!

is it on YouTube? Not sure I want four hours of Stuart. Or do I?

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The last few years everyone loves to pick on this band and call them poser black metal. Even though it seems it isn't cool to like them anymore, I still like them. CoF is the only gothic band (and Type O Negative) I like and one of the very few symphonic bands I like. I'm not a big fan of clean non-metal sounding female vocals either but I like it most of the time when they do it.

I'm not into everything they put out but I do like probably 80% of what I've heard from them. As far as symphonic black metal, I only like CoF and 1 Ancient album a friend has (not sure which one but I have listened to some of their albums and disliked everything except the cd my friend has that reminds me of Castlevania on the first Nintendo). I haven't listened to them in a while but I do own several albums and a dvd full of videos. They put on a good show live too. I like the thrashier more aggressive side of their output more but I have yet to hear anything that flat out sucked from them. I think everyone gives Danny filth shit because he is one of the few guys in extreme metal to have groupies, I guess it just makes everyone else in this sausagefest we call metal jealous. I always thought of them as gothic metal, I knew about them in the late 90s several years before I heard about black metal (aside from the Venom album).

I have heard other symphonic black metal bands like Dimmu etc and it just isn't my thing, also I'm very picky when it comes to keyboards. CoF really is an exception for me. It seems like every band I like the younger crowd shits all over and calls poser metal. I love Behemoth's Demigod and the 2 following albums, my Slayer, old Metallica and Pantera etc the young kids are all calling poser shit now. Who gives a fuck? I love those bands and I'm not going to stop loving them.

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15 hours ago, the_thrashing said:

The last few years everyone loves to pick on this band and call them poser black metal. Even though it seems it isn't cool to like them anymore, I still like them. CoF is the only gothic band (and Type O Negative) I like and one of the very few symphonic bands I like. I'm not a big fan of clean non-metal sounding female vocals either but I like it most of the time when they do it.

I'm not into everything they put out but I do like probably 80% of what I've heard from them. As far as symphonic black metal, I only like CoF and 1 Ancient album a friend has (not sure which one but I have listened to some of their albums and disliked everything except the cd my friend has that reminds me of Castlevania on the first Nintendo). I haven't listened to them in a while but I do own several albums and a dvd full of videos. They put on a good show live too. I like the thrashier more aggressive side of their output more but I have yet to hear anything that flat out sucked from them. I think everyone gives Danny filth shit because he is one of the few guys in extreme metal to have groupies, I guess it just makes everyone else in this sausagefest we call metal jealous. I always thought of them as gothic metal, I knew about them in the late 90s several years before I heard about black metal (aside from the Venom album).

I have heard other symphonic black metal bands like Dimmu etc and it just isn't my thing, also I'm very picky when it comes to keyboards. CoF really is an exception for me. It seems like every band I like the younger crowd shits all over and calls poser metal. I love Behemoth's Demigod and the 2 following albums, my Slayer, old Metallica and Pantera etc the young kids are all calling poser shit now. Who gives a fuck? I love those bands and I'm not going to stop loving them.

I agree that Cradle of Filth are a gothic metal band rather than black metal. I've never understood the black metal label, even for their first album, although I guess there are 'elements' of black metal on there. 

As for younger kids criticising this and that, well that's what they do best. Are they really dissing old Metallica and Slayer, the sacred cows of metal? I just read that Megadeth are supporting Five Finger Death Punch on their European tour, so god only knows what's going on out there in popular land. 

For me, metal is about a certain degree of rebellion - even the rebellious nature of liking something a lot of other people think is lame. I'm a classic example of this trope. 

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Cradle definitely have some noticeable black metal influences, but I've always thought of them as being gothic metal in the truest of senses, opposed to the common 'gothic metal' fare that seems to only require a female vocalist, symphonic sound, melancholia, etc. But, sadly enough, Cradle of Filth will always remain ten leagues beneath contempt. Instead of being enjoyed for what they are, they're despised for what they aren't.

I see rebellion acting in concert with conformity, like light and darkness depending on each other. Too much conformity necessitates rebellion in people, and in turn rebellion helps people to find an identity and a peaceful place within a newfound conformity, which may eventually only serve to yield more rebellion.

Besides, it never ceases to amaze me how confessed detractors of bands like Cradle of Filth are routinely drawn to them despite the apparent hate and lack of interest. 

 

On 9/29/2019 at 1:50 AM, Requiem said:

Link or die!

is it on YouTube? Not sure I want four hours of Stuart. Or do I?

Interview with Stuart

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9 hours ago, Requiem said:

I agree that Cradle of Filth are a gothic metal band rather than black metal. I've never understood the black metal label, even for their first album, although I guess there are 'elements' of black metal on there. 

As for younger kids criticising this and that, well that's what they do best. Are they really dissing old Metallica and Slayer, the sacred cows of metal? I just read that Megadeth are supporting Five Finger Death Punch on their European tour, so god only knows what's going on out there in popular land. 

For me, metal is about a certain degree of rebellion - even the rebellious nature of liking something a lot of other people think is lame. I'm a classic example of this trope. 

Megadeth has always had really strange choices for opening acts. If you remember Gigantour, I didn't like a lot of bands on the bill. My other exception to symphonic metal I did see live on Gigantour, Symphony X who I had never even heard of before that show and I am not a big keyboard fan but they impressed me.

Yeah trust me, the past 10 years at least the kids shit all over Slayer, Pantera, Metallica etc. I do not like new Metallica at all aside from Death Magnetic which to me was alright. I definitely lean more towards the purist side of metal but that doesn't mean I agree with everyone in that group about everything.  I think they are going with this, if its underground its cool if its mainstream its not kind of trip. Heres the thing with that, Metallica and Slayer were underground the most of the 80s (late 88 the One video came out), Slayer didn't become a household name until about 2000 with no fm radio play and no MTV airplay outside of HBB. They just accumulated fans mostly by word of mouth until they finally are as big as they are now. And once something is popular enough no matter how it got that way, it becomes mainstream. I like both mainstream and underground stuff, I don't care how trendy something is, I care about the sound. Do I love or hate the music itself? That's what's important to me. I am not a fan of core with few exceptions and I don't like numetal as a genre either (I have far more exceptions with nu than core). Maybe the kids just figured, the old farts hate our core and numetal so we'll shit all over their Slayer and Pantera etc. .Of course this isn't all of the younger crowd, maybe 1/3rd of them I'm guessing.

CoF I would both tag gothic and symphonic black metal because just think about it, when you think symphonic black metal what 2 bands come to mind? CoF, Dimmu and maybe Emperor right? CoF possibly started the symphonic black metal genre or at least were in a very short list of bands that were the first. Symphonic black metal itself doesn't sound like other kinds of black metal at all, I mean it is symphonic not raw and nasty. I would say riffwise CoF sounds way more death metal, I don't hear black metal riffs but Danny's vocals are definitely far closer to black metal than anything else. That and the look, CoF's look has always been somewhere in between black metal and goth. In the early 2000s when symphonic black metal was popular, a lot of bands had a very similar look. To me Dimmu, I've only heard the singles that were on the new HBB and I didn't like them so I haven't heard all of their stuff because what I did hear didn't grab me. But I must say, I was immediately thinking of Dimmu as a CoF clone done wrong (for my tastes), I like those things when CoF does it, but I didn't like it when Dimmu did it, if that makes sense. Emperor I have heard so much about that a long time ago I checked out their first classic album and I didn't get it at all. I really couldn't understand what the big deal was about them. I never checked out more of their stuff so I don't know much about them. The only thing I thought was cool about them was the album cover of their demo with the skeleton on the horse.

5 hours ago, Vampyrique said:

Cradle definitely have some noticeable black metal influences, but I've always thought of them as being gothic metal in the truest of senses, opposed to the common 'gothic metal' fare that seems to only require a female vocalist, symphonic sound, melancholia, etc. But, sadly enough, Cradle of Filth will always remain ten leagues beneath contempt. Instead of being enjoyed for what they are, they're despised for what they aren't.

I see rebellion acting in concert with conformity, like light and darkness depending on each other. Too much conformity necessitates rebellion in people, and in turn rebellion helps people to find an identity and a peaceful place within a newfound conformity, which may eventually only serve to yield more rebellion.

Besides, it never ceases to amaze me how confessed detractors of bands like Cradle of Filth are routinely drawn to them despite the apparent hate and lack of interest. 

 

Interview with Stuart

I honestly don't know of any gothic metal bands aside from Type O Negative (I like a few songs from them) and I guess Cradle of Filth. Even Type O I always considered goth/alternative. I didn't even know there was a genre of gothic metal. I've heard of goth but not gothic metal. It must exist though because there is a sub forum for it on here.

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On 10/4/2019 at 12:16 AM, the_thrashing said:

Megadeth has always had really strange choices for opening acts. If you remember Gigantour, I didn't like a lot of bands on the bill. My other exception to symphonic metal I did see live on Gigantour, Symphony X who I had never even heard of before that show and I am not a big keyboard fan but they impressed me.

 

Not to turn this into a Megadeth thread, but Megadeth haven't got Five Finger Death Punch for an opening band, Megadeth are the opening band for Five Finger Death Punch! Hence my comment. 

Back on Cradle, 

Apparently they've just cancelled some shows to work on the new album. This could mean a couple of things: 

1. Things aren't going well with the writing schedule and they're moving to emergency stage, giving up a lot of money from the shows to fix the songwriting problem. 

2. Well, it's obviously just 1. 

I hope this isn't a bad sign. We need a huge album from Cradle as their number 3 album with the current (and best?) line-up of their existence. 

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5 hours ago, Requiem said:

Not to turn this into a Megadeth thread, but Megadeth haven't got Five Finger Death Punch for an opening band, Megadeth are the opening band for Five Finger Death Punch! Hence my comment. 

Back on Cradle, 

Apparently they've just cancelled some shows to work on the new album. This could mean a couple of things: 

1. Things aren't going well with the writing schedule and they're moving to emergency stage, giving up a lot of money from the shows to fix the songwriting problem. 

2. Well, it's obviously just 1. 

I hope this isn't a bad sign. We need a huge album from Cradle as their number 3 album with the current (and best?) line-up of their existence. 

CoF has always had the old revolving door lineups.  Danny Filth has been really lucky finding quality members time and time again. I'm sure he'll pull through.

As far as Megadeth opening for Five Finger Death Punch, I just can't imagine that. Are they like the IN band right now or what? I never got into FFDP, I honestly can't even remember the lineup of the Gigantour I was at. I remember Dream Theater, Symphony X and possibly Iced Earth, there was a lot of other bands there who I can't even remember. I don't think FFDP was there. I only remembered the bands there that I liked.

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On 10/11/2019 at 5:15 AM, the_thrashing said:

CoF has always had the old revolving door lineups.  Danny Filth has been really lucky finding quality members time and time again. I'm sure he'll pull through.

As far as Megadeth opening for Five Finger Death Punch, I just can't imagine that. Are they like the IN band right now or what? I never got into FFDP, I honestly can't even remember the lineup of the Gigantour I was at. I remember Dream Theater, Symphony X and possibly Iced Earth, there was a lot of other bands there who I can't even remember. I don't think FFDP was there. I only remembered the bands there that I liked.

They haven’t lost any members recently. What are you on about?

It’s Dani by the way, not Danny. 

No one’s claiming FFDP were/were not on the Gigantour. The comment was about Megadeth opening for them on the current tour. 

I feel like we’re really not on the same wavelength here...

On 10/11/2019 at 4:13 PM, True Belief said:

Newly remixed & remastered version of Lustmord & Wargasm is now out there, and it sounds pretty good tbh.

 

Having said that, the original was just fine by me

 

I refuse to listen on principle... for the moment. Death to corporate makeovers.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Requiem said:

They haven’t lost any members recently. What are you on about?

It’s Dani by the way, not Danny. 

No one’s claiming FFDP were/were not on the Gigantour. The comment was about Megadeth opening for them on the current tour. 

I feel like we’re really not on the same wavelength here...

I refuse to listen on principle... for the moment. Death to corporate makeovers.

 

 

You confused me with your earlier post about songwriting problems and a mention of the lineup, I thought you meant a lineup change but you really were saying best lineup ever.

I'm sure you're right but it's just hard to believe that FFDP is bigger than Megadeth. I had no idea you were talking about the current tour either. We don't get many big tours here in Belgrade so I don't follow what's going on in other places. It just ends up being a letdown of not being able to go to the show.

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  • 1 month later...

Anyone enjoying the newly remastered release of "Cruelty and the Beast" as much as i am? It´s huge improvement of the original release since they finally fixed those annoying typewriter drums from the original recording and added some much needed oomph to the whole recording.

I mostly prefer the original recordings whenever possible but in this case (and Nattens Madrigal) the tweaking is more then welcome. It´s still not perfect since Sarah Jezebel vocals still sound somewhat muffled and at times the guitars threaten to drown out some of the keyboard sequences. But overall this newly remastered version make the album way more enjoyable.

Now let´s see what Dani and the boys come up with next. I was never a huge Cradle fan but i have to admit that their last two records really grabbed me. If they can keep this up then i might have to become a fan after all ?

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On 11/17/2019 at 10:47 PM, Benjaminc81 said:

Anyone enjoying the newly remastered release of "Cruelty and the Beast" as much as i am? It´s huge improvement of the original release since they finally fixed those annoying typewriter drums from the original recording and added some much needed oomph to the whole recording.

I mostly prefer the original recordings whenever possible but in this case (and Nattens Madrigal) the tweaking is more then welcome. It´s still not perfect since Sarah Jezebel vocals still sound somewhat muffled and at times the guitars threaten to drown out some of the keyboard sequences. But overall this newly remastered version make the album way more enjoyable.

Now let´s see what Dani and the boys come up with next. I was never a huge Cradle fan but i have to admit that their last two records really grabbed me. If they can keep this up then i might have to become a fan after all ?

I've been giving this a good listen, and yes, it's hard to argue with the idea that it's done the album a good deed in cleaning up the sound and making it more accessible to the masses. 

HOWEVER. 

Some of the high definition sounds that are now coming through, including guitars, vocals (both male and female)  and sound effects, ruin a lot of the haunting atmosphere of the original version. 

The album is about a 16th century Countess, and the original production is pretty damn clear, let's be honest, but also has those touches of mirk that add to the shadowy nature of the theme. There's a sense of unease and disquiet. There's a sense of the other. 

Now, it's like watching a movie on one of those fancy high-def pixel screens. You can see everything really clearly, but the movie ain't any better, and if anything it's kind of distracting to a long-time listener like me. 

You can have your new, fancy sounding, 'Cruelty and the Beast'. Sure the drums sound phatter and the girl sounds clearer. You can hear everything. Hope you enjoy it as you sit there on your headphones listening through your phone. 

But I don't want phat and clear. I want haunting. I want shadows. I want the undefinable quality that can only be achieved once in the studio. I want the original.  @Vampyrique

Hail the original 'Cruelty and the Beast'. 

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Hm, guess it's like you say, it's just a case of what your used to. I for example only listened to the original version maybe three or four times and after that i couldn't muster up the patience to listen it anymore because of the poor production.

Still i think there is a huge difference between rough or poor production jobs. I don't mind roughly produced records like let's say "A Blaze in the Northern Sky" or "Under a Funeral Moon" cause they are still well balanced overall even though they sound rough around the edges. But in this case i just found the original recording poorly produced, volume levels of certain instruments aren't balanced right or sound just awful because they were recorded under wrong conditions. In this case the production job ruined the record for me so i'm grateful for the remastered edition.

Just like with Mayhem's "Grand Declaration of War". I always liked certain aspects of the record but the poor, thin and sterile production ruined most of the enjoyment for me to the point where i stopped listening to it. So when the remastered edition i came out i was finally able to fully appreciate the record for what it is.

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1 hour ago, Benjaminc81 said:

Hm, guess it's like you say, it's just a case of what your used to. I for example only listened to the original version maybe three or four times and after that i couldn't muster up the patience to listen it anymore because of the poor production.

Still i think there is a huge difference between rough or poor production jobs. I don't mind roughly produced records like let's say "A Blaze in the Northern Sky" or "Under a Funeral Moon" cause they are still well balanced overall even though they sound rough around the edges. But in this case i just found the original recording poorly produced, volume levels of certain instruments aren't balanced right or sound just awful because they were recorded under wrong conditions. In this case the production job ruined the record for me so i'm grateful for the remastered edition.

Just like with Mayhem's "Grand Declaration of War". I always liked certain aspects of the record but the poor, thin and sterile production ruined most of the enjoyment for me to the point where i stopped listening to it. So when the remastered edition i came out i was finally able to fully appreciate the record for what it is.

I’ve made my thoughts on the new version of ‘Grand Declaration of War’ more than clear on the Mayhem thread, so I’ll keep calm and breathe deeply hahaha. 

I get what you’re saying. I just disagree completely. But yeah those albums sound good now and probably accessible to a lot more people. 

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