"Posers"

[metalman45]

Hey, As I venture farther into the world on heavy metal I hear more and more about "poser bands". The million dollar question is, when exactly did the concept of fake, overrated, pop shit metal bands come into place. While I'm pretty sure I myself would rate most of the "posers" as talentless hacks, I want to know, about what year did this come into place. While I'm certainly no metal expert or anything, I'm pretty sure that nobody ever talked about "posers" in the heyday of metal with black sabbath in the 70's and further on in the 80's with metallica, slayer, megadeth etc. I would imagine that around the early or late 90's as metal branched out into a sea of subgenres (grindcore, melodic death metal, metalcore etc) a bunch of "metal boy bands" if you will, formed and got quite popular. Many seem to think of i.e. asking alexandria as the "Justin Beiber of metal". Any thoughts on this? Sorry for long post, had to get that out of my system.

[Midi]

http://metalforum.com/general-chat/4358-what-s-your-opinion-about-pozer-metalheads.html

[deathstorm]

Good point midi

[GorboGorboze]

Come on Midi, don't you think that the subject of posers deserves a fresh shot. Anyway this new inquiry is related to bands not fans, so it is different. I did not follow your link, but I think that it is that one that was hot a short while ago. Anyway This original post of yours Metalman, is complicated and interesting and better, in my opinion, then the original post on the other thread. I am certainly no expert on metal either, but it occurs to me that as far as bands go there were surly poserish ones from way back, but that they did not necessarily lack talent as you suggest. Take Alice Cooper as an example, I've got in my hand (because I wanted to check the date) his album Alice Cooper Goes to Hell from 1976. Some of the songs on this album could have been recorded by Barry Manolo, I'm not even joking, I'm serious. Lots of it is borderline disco. I know that Cooper was under the umbrella of Frank Zappa at some point early in his career, and there are definitely some Zappa influences, which to me is worse then disco, but Zappa was way talented and so I think was Cooper. Saying that Cooper was a poser may not be much of a revelation, as I believe that I basically heard him say it himself in an interview. He said something like, we were doing vaudeville schtick dressed in horror costumes because that is what the kids wanted. There is basically no one who would call Kiss a metal band. They were a disco band dressed up and posing as metal, someone correct me if i am wrong. Simmons, for crying out loud, I watched some of his reality show, dude reminds me of my super square uncle, only my uncle is nicer and less whiny but equally not-rock-and-roll. The L.A. glam metal scene in the 80's might have had some poser bands involved in it. I don't know about that, you'll have to ask someone who was there. Anyone have any thoughts about twisted Sister, or Bon Jovi?

[Midi]

Come on Midi' date=' don't you think that the subject of posers deserves a fresh shot.[/quote'] No. It doesn't differ from a topic concerning fans, since it's the same thing if you consider they basically get their inspiration from elsewhere.

[GorboGorboze]

No. It doesn't differ from a topic concerning fans' date=' since it's the same thing if you consider they basically get their inspiration from elsewhere.[/quote'] Are you saying that getting inspiration from outside of metal makes a band unmetal. I think that I must be misunderstanding you, because that does not seem like something you would think, so please reiterate, thanks. Anyway, in the context of performers, it seems mixed up with artistic decisions that are made in order to make money. I'd call that being commercial, and even a solidly metal band like Metallica could come under fire for that, or just about any other band that has been around for a long time and received lots of radio play. Well the original post mentions metal boy bands, and I followed a suggestion from this forum to a video of a band that I guessed probably started out as a new country band of guys who met at a Calvin Kline ad photo shoot, and then went metal. We can complain about posers in the metal scene, but we should be glad we are not new country fans, vis-a-vis a poser element, I fell like the grass is pretty yellow on the other side of that fence. Not to put down new country... I'm sure it's awesome. PS. If you want to go back to that other thread, Midi and Death Storm I'll follow you, but I'm guessing your basically disinterested.

[Midi]

Are you saying that getting inspiration from outside of metal makes a band unmetal. I think that I must be misunderstanding you' date=' because that does not seem like something you would think, so please reiterate, thanks.[/quote'] What I'm trying to say is that, if we consider poser bands some sort of rip-offs or 'talentless hacks' as described by OP, there can hardly be a personal touch in the music and they should be considered fans of their major influence instead of musicians. I guess I'd then describe them as a cover band who albeit unintentionally doesn't recognise the 'mother band'.

[GorboGorboze]

O.K., that makes sense, thank you. Well... who would fault a band for not being totally original. That is too much to expect. Originality is so uncommon and special. I would be pretty thrilled to be a contributing member of a poser band considered in those terms.

[Midi]

I would be pretty thrilled to be a contributing member of a poser band considered in those terms.

Now I'm the one who's lost here.

[Iceni]

Well, you're the one who went and tried to converse with Gorbo, you daft fool.

[mindy6158]

I think a lot of times, people will call bands that they despise and or are mainstream to be "posers." Which is damn ridiculous and utterly sttuuppiiddd. If any "metal" goes mainstream, more power to them. I would much rather metal be semi popular than the stupid shit music that is popular now days...(as said, justin beiber). Every genre has been inspired by SOMEONE down the line, it is nearly impossible to be 100% original when it comes to music now days. Except for Opeth.....

[Midi]

Well' date='[i'] you're the one who went and tried to converse with Gorbo, you daft fool.

Hm, okay...

[BlutAusNerd]

I think a lot of times' date=' people will call bands that they despise and or are mainstream to be "posers." Which is damn ridiculous and utterly sttuuppiiddd. If any "metal" goes mainstream, more power to them. I would much rather metal be semi popular than the stupid shit music that is popular now days...(as said, justin beiber). Every genre has been inspired by SOMEONE down the line, it is nearly impossible to be 100% original when it comes to music now days. Except for Opeth.....[/quote'] Posers are people who are posing as something that they are not. Metal bands who become popular aren't posers, unless they pose as something else to get there, i.e. pop/rock, mallcore, etc... Then there are bands who pose as metal bands when they're something else entirely to sell something "edgier" and generate appeal with angsty teens. Bands can do whatever they want, but posing as something you're not would at best be disingenuous to your music and lack depth, and at worst be total pandering dogshit.

[mindy6158]

Posers are people who are posing as something that they are not. Metal bands who become popular aren't posers' date=' unless they pose as something else to get there, i.e. pop/rock, mallcore, etc... Then there are bands who pose as metal bands when they're something else entirely to sell something "edgier" and generate appeal with angsty teens. Bands can do whatever they want, but posing as something you're not would at best be disingenuous to your music and lack depth, and at worst be total pandering dogshit.[/quote'] I would say this applies to quite a few black metal bands.....But I mean....hard for me to really know if people in bands are posers if I do not know them personally. I hear people calling Trivium "posers" Constantly, how are they? That is why I said, sometimes I think people just like to call certain bands "posers" when they just do not like the band itself. Seems hard for me to actually believe someone who is not really into the genre of music they are producing when it comes to metal that they would waste any amount of time doing it if it is really all about fame and money.

[BlutAusNerd]

I would say this applies to quite a few black metal bands.....But I mean....hard for me to really know if people in bands are posers if I do not know them personally. I hear people calling Trivium "posers" Constantly' date=' how are they? That is why I said, sometimes I think people just like to call certain bands "posers" when they just do not like the band itself. Seems hard for me to actually believe someone who is not really into the genre of music they are producing when it comes to metal that they would waste any amount of time doing it if it is really all about fame and money.[/quote'] Trivium is a prime example of a poser band. They started out as just another trendy melodic emocore band at the height of that trend, so they were already coming from a place of contrived pandering. Even if I was wrong about that and they did just happen to start playing that style of music for themselves instead of as a cash grab, they then sold out and jumped onto a different bandwagon, that of a thrash metal band at the height of the "thrash revival". It doesn't really make a difference if they're fans of the style or not, their sound is merely flowing with what is hip and will garner higher record sales, which would make them, by definition, posers.

[mindy6158]

Trivium is a prime example of a poser band. They started out as just another trendy melodic emocore band at the height of that trend' date=' so they were already coming from a place of contrived pandering. Even if I was wrong about that and they did just happen to start playing that style of music for themselves instead of as a cash grab, they then sold out and jumped onto a different bandwagon, that of a thrash metal band at the height of the "thrash revival". It doesn't really make a difference if they're fans of the style or not, their sound is merely flowing with what is hip and will garner higher record sales, which would make them, by definition, posers.[/quote'] I would have to disagree. Just because a band's music has a "popular" sound, does not make them or the band posers. I mean honestly I do not know that many people who even know who Trivium is or have ever heard their stuff before. Like I said before, I think people tend to call metal bands who "went mainstream" or "sold out" posers. Just like people who talked shit on Opeth for signing with roadrunner. I am just rather open when it comes to music, especially metal, I am not that into the "technicalities" of it, if I like the sound, I like the sound. I mean you might be correct, I don't know. I have most likely not met anywhere near as many band members as you have, so I cannot know how many are actual "posers" and how these people even act or anything. I do not think there is anything wrong with making money doing what you love, and pretty much EVERY band out there, one way or another, eventually changes their sound.

[mindy6158]

Also, I do not mean to sound mean, heh. We can agree to disagree:D

[BlutAusNerd]

I would have to disagree. Just because a band's music has a "popular" sound' date=' does not make them or the band posers. I mean honestly I do not know that many people who even know who Trivium is or have ever heard their stuff before. Like I said before, I think people tend to call metal bands who "went mainstream" or "sold out" posers. Just like people who talked shit on Opeth for signing with roadrunner. I am just rather open when it comes to music, especially metal, I am not that into the "technicalities" of it, if I like the sound, I like the sound. I mean you might be correct, I don't know. I have most likely not met anywhere near as many band members as you have, so I cannot know how many are actual "posers" and how these people even act or anything. I do not think there is anything wrong with making money doing what you love, and pretty much EVERY band out there, one way or another, eventually changes their sound.[/quote'] It has nothing to do with how mainstream they sound, plenty of bands sound much more accessible and mainstream while maintaining artistic integrity. Also, their popularity has nothing to do with it, it's the intent behind it, not their sales because of it. As you mentioned earlier, intent is difficult to judge, but moves like changing your sound abruptly to coincide with a shifting musical climate, especially when the songwriting is shallow and gimmick ridden, point toward their motives being non-artistic in nature.

[mindy6158]

It has nothing to do with how mainstream they sound' date=' plenty of bands sound much more accessible and mainstream while maintaining artistic integrity. Also, their popularity has nothing to do with it, it's the intent behind it, not their sales because of it. As you mentioned earlier, intent is difficult to judge, but moves like changing your sound abruptly to coincide with a shifting musical climate, especially when the songwriting is shallow and gimmick ridden, point toward their motives being non-artistic in nature.[/quote'] Yeah, I don't know, I am just not thinking the same way as you in this regard. Almost always, metal is metal to me, with many MANY subgenres, the most subgeneres of any genre of music, I just like what I hear in bands from all over the spectrum, whether their sounds change with the popularity, if I like it, oh well, then I guess I will be a poser as well......

[Iceni]

A good example of this could be the death metal band I once hated and now don't: Beneath. Superficially they sound a lot like every other generic eeurg bluurg modern DM group, but they perform the style very well from both a technical and melodic standpoint. So too Becoming the Archetype can sound like pretty bog-standard metalcore if you're not really listening, (especially because the vocals aren't brilliant) but they're actually a highly competent and enjoyable band. Sinbreed, Sun Caged, Lux Aeterna - these are not original bands. However, I think they perform their chosen style very well.

[BlutAusNerd]

Yeah' date=' I don't know, I am just not thinking the same way as you in this regard. Almost always, metal is metal to me, with many MANY subgenres, the most subgeneres of any genre of music, I just like what I hear in bands from all over the spectrum, whether their sounds change with the popularity, if I like it, oh well, then I guess I will be a poser as well......[/quote'] I'm not saying anything about whether you should or shouldn't like any given band, but the qualities that make a band a poser band are also the qualities that turn me off to their music. You shouldn't let me or anyone else dictate your musical choices, because it has everything to do with how it sounds to you, but while I respect your right to choose, I don't respect bands that operate that way. To me, bands who put their image or marketability before their music itself don't deserve my time and money to buy their music, and even if they did, their lack of effort and vapid songwriting would do nothing for me.

[RelentlessOblivion]

I tend to think of the term 'poser' as referring more to those people who pose as metalheads because, for a brief span of time, it is the popular thing to do. Those people who wear Slayer shirts, for example, but can not name a single song by the band. I refrain from using the term when referring to music because there are better words that can be used. I would not call slipknot a poser band but I would call their music highly derivative, commercially focused, and lazy.

[BlutAusNerd]

I tend to think of the term 'poser' as referring more to those people who pose as metalheads because' date=' for a brief span of time, it is the popular thing to do. Those people who wear Slayer shirts, for example, but can not name a single song by the band. I refrain from using the term when referring to music because there are better words that can be used. I would not call slipknot a poser band but I would call their music highly derivative, commercially focused, and lazy.[/quote'] It goes well beyond metal, one could be a poser at various other things, music related or not.

[RelentlessOblivion]

A fact I know all too well. I merely used a metal-related example as we are on a metal forum. I consider myself a poser in relation to beer. I know almost nothing about the subject and basically only like what other people like.

[deathstorm]

A good example. Of a poser metal. Band is. The bunny and the bear. Those idiots. Dress up in bunny mask and bear mask. They are very popular.