Anger Thread!

[Iceni]

well that shits all over my theory though you aren't entirely correct an invasion of Australia would from a tactical perspective be advantageous given the natural resources on offer namely uranium which is abundant down here and could be weaponised relatively quickly and efficiently

Yes. This is a good point. However, that would require them to set up infrastructure and supply lines to extract uranium. If there's one thing that a military really doesn't want to do, it's to stick around in one place and 'do security'. Their numbers will be whittled down and it's very easy to disrupt the supply the lines and otherwise stop the supply of uranium. Much easier for them to buy from the AQ Khan network, since he's safe in Pakistan and neither country is a party to the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty, so everything they're doing is technically allowed by international law since neither of them are parties to that non-proliferation treaty. After all, that is how North Korea's nuclear program began in the first place.

[RelentlessOblivion]

but even if they were parties to that treaty international law can't touch them unless they actually ratify that treaty with legislation in their countries, treaties are not of themselves legally binding.

[Iceni]

but even if they were parties to that treaty international law can't touch them unless they actually ratify that treaty with legislation in their countries' date=' treaties are not of themselves legally binding.[/quote'] Fair enough. Neither country has ratified the treaty, although the Nuclear non-Proliferation Treaty stipulates that a country can accede to it at any time of they want. If North Korea just ratified the treaty as a nuclear state they may well we able to build a proper nuclear program. My guess is that they don't want anyone actually going into their country and seeing how bad things really are...Almost every other country in the world has ratified the NPT though, even Iran.

[RelentlessOblivion]

yes but Iran are still manufacturing nuclear weapons so they don't really abide by the treaty

[Iceni]

yes but Iran are still manufacturing nuclear weapons so they don't really abide by the treaty

Actually, if they wanted to Iran could have signed on as a nuclear party. They are technically violating the treaty by not being completely transparent about letting monitors in to inspect their program. Part of the problem is that the treaty was ratified back when the Shah was still in power, so chances are they don't think it should legitimately apply to them - but if that were so they could simply opt out of the agreement, that's what North Korea did. Furthermore, there technically isn't any proof that they're producing weapons. All they're doing is enriching uranium. Their indecision about allowing monitors generates the impression that they are making weapons, but there technically isn't any proof. Although they could be held accountable to the treaty because they aren't allowing inspectors, they object to having extensive treaties worked out just so that they can enrich uranium without being held under suspicion, and the fact that their unwillingness to allow inspectors automatically puts them under suspicion. They point out that neither India nor Israel are signatories to and have ratified the NPT yet have nuclear weapons and have not been placed under sanctions.

[RelentlessOblivion]

yes but India are much less likely to actually use their nuclear weapons as for Israel well they will use theirs against Palistine or Syria at some point and should absolutely be sanctioned I find it puzzling that they aren't and in fact that there are nations pledging their support for Israel including the US

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Some guy on youtube said that SCORPIONS ARE GLAM METAL!?! AAAAARRRRGGH!

[Scullicon]

Scorpions, Glam.. With an untrained eye i can see the connection but i do not agree.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Anger Thread! maybe the love at first sting album, but not Blackout and their other classics.

[RelentlessOblivion]

they did move towards glam from Love At First Sting onwards but never fully transitioned into the glam

[Iceni]

Some guy on youtube said that SCORPIONS ARE GLAM METAL!?! AAAAARRRRGGH!

Someone on YouTube also said Amorphis was a black metal band.

[Iceni]

yes but India are much less likely to actually use their nuclear weapons as for Israel well they will use theirs against Palistine or Syria at some point and should absolutely be sanctioned I find it puzzling that they aren't and in fact that there are nations pledging their support for Israel including the US

The thing is, Israel has a 'policy of opacity' dating back to 1968. In it, it's agreed that Israel will not be the first nation to introduce nuclear weapons to the Middle East. Using nuclear weapons would therefore have two negative political ramifications: one, it would out them as a nuclear state and two, it would place a massive stigma on anyone who negotiated with them. I think even the US would withdraw aid from Israel if it used a nuclear weapon on Palestine. The thing is, they probably won't. Israel views Palestine mainly as real estate, so they don't want to be polluting it with fallout. Using a nuclear weapon on Syria, on the other hand, would be almost completely pointless. It would do nothing but exacerbate the conflict, which is not in Israel's interests. They did recently attack a target in Syria, but that was presumed to be missiles headed for Hezbollah in Lebanon. Chances are that this will be the last of it. Israel's military never really leaves its own country for a long time, and they definitely won't get involved with any peacekeeping effort in Syria. Not if, according to the BBC about a half an hour ago, the rebels are using sarin gas.

[BlutAusNerd]

You can't believe anything that Youtube trolls have to say, that place gets pretty ridiculous with comments on many of their videos. Unfortunately, internet access does not have an IQ prerequisite, though some internet retardation can be amusing. That said though, I'm with you guys on Scorpions, they got close in the 80's, but were really more of an arena rock band, they did get more poppy, but not as much as any glam band I can think of. I also find their radio period listenable, even if I would probably never own any of it, whereas glam actively offends my ears. Still though, I think we can all agree that Scorpions were best in the 70's.

[BlutAusNerd]

Actually, if they wanted to Iran could have signed on as a nuclear party. They are technically violating the treaty by not being completely transparent about letting monitors in to inspect their program. Part of the problem is that the treaty was ratified back when the Shah was still in power, so chances are they don't think it should legitimately apply to them - but if that were so they could simply opt out of the agreement, that's what North Korea did. Furthermore, there technically isn't any proof that they're producing weapons. All they're doing is enriching uranium. Their indecision about allowing monitors generates the impression that they are making weapons, but there technically isn't any proof. Although they could be held accountable to the treaty because they aren't allowing inspectors, they object to having extensive treaties worked out just so that they can enrich uranium without being held under suspicion, and the fact that their unwillingness to allow inspectors automatically puts them under suspicion. They point out that neither India nor Israel are signatories to and have ratified the NPT yet have nuclear weapons and have not been placed under sanctions.

Well, there wasn't any proof that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction either, but we fabricated that "proof" to invade them anyway, which could have been for a number of reasons. Either Bush was trying to finish off Saddam since daddy didn't, Bush was a puppet for Cheney and it was his decision to invade to increase oil speculation and balloon make a profit on his vested interest in Halliburton, or we just wanted another imperialistic colony in the Middle East. Since oil prices are still high, there's no presidential vendetta, and we are (loosely) in control of a nation at their border, there's really no reason invade Iran unless they struck first. As far as Israel goes, I doubt we would support them as much as we do if there wasn't so much Jewish money tied up in American big business and government. Prior to our Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, they were our largest friendly presence in the Middle East, so now we really don't need them for that. We ought to be sanctioning them for nuclear weapons and for Palestinian genocide, and give the Palestinians the state that they were promised. It may not put the conflict to rest (what will after all these years?), but at least then we would be forcing some hands to do the right thing, hold up their end of the bargain and stop massacring civilians.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

I personally love 'Rock You Like A Hurricane' probably for the same reason I enjoy thr Judas Turbo album and the first few Def Leppard albums.

[KSMASH]

The internet is great for arguing about things that don't matter! As for Scorpions, I don't own any of their albums but I'm thinking about changing that very soon. I like what I've heard from them.

[Iceni]

I totally agree on Israel.

Well, there wasn't any proof that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction either, but we fabricated that "proof" to invade them anyway, which could have been for a number of reasons. Either Bush was trying to finish off Saddam since daddy didn't, Bush was a puppet for Cheney and it was his decision to invade to increase oil speculation and balloon make a profit on his vested interest in Halliburton, or we just wanted another imperialistic colony in the Middle East. Since oil prices are still high, there's no presidential vendetta, and we are (loosely) in control of a nation at their border, there's really no reason invade Iran unless they struck first. As far as Israel goes, I doubt we would support them as much as we do if there wasn't so much Jewish money tied up in American big business and government. Prior to our Iraq and Afghanistan invasions, they were our largest friendly presence in the Middle East, so now we really don't need them for that. We ought to be sanctioning them for nuclear weapons and for Palestinian genocide, and give the Palestinians the state that they were promised. It may not put the conflict to rest (what will after all these years?), but at least then we would be forcing some hands to do the right thing, hold up their end of the bargain and stop massacring civilians.

Well, the Iraq invasion wasn't a unilateral action, despite what basically every single government except the US' has been trying to claim. There was a coalition of the willing. Furthermore, the nuclear weapons were not the only reason the invasion happened. The Kurds were attacked with chemical weapons. That makes two justifications for invasion: 1: Responsibility to protect. The Economist supported the United States in this regard, as did the UN and Congress. 2: use of chemical weapons. This is another clear violation of international law and a justification for invasion. Iraq had ratified the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty in 1972 and had violated it. But yes, if the US goals were really so nefarious in Iraq then we failed completely. If we really wanted Iraq's oil we'd make much more of an effort to keep it safe, by stabilizing the country. However, there was ample reason to invade upon the criteria laid out in customary international law.

[Iceni]

They have a lot of good songs. Their lyrics are kind of stupid, naturally, but they're fun. My personal favorite is 'No One Like You'...

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

this is stupid, haha he's such a legend, he Isn't even arsed! but still, who wouldn't want to give Rob Halford a hug? xD I know I would! aGkEu7s7RuA

[Scullicon]

The first CD i ever bought was a Scorpions best of. Thats over 15 years ago, I had a cassette with them before that if i remember right. What angers me is that i often get the question why i listen to such angry music, people assume that i would get aggressive by it.... Its the other way around really.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Anger Thread! I love the way the vocalist sings in a german accent "BLACK-OUT! like 2 seperate words almost xD its quite endearing haha one of the main reasons I love that song the chorus is awesome.

[BlutAusNerd]

I totally agree on Israel. Well, the Iraq invasion wasn't a unilateral action, despite what basically every single government except the US' has been trying to claim. There was a coalition of the willing. Furthermore, the nuclear weapons were not the only reason the invasion happened. The Kurds were attacked with chemical weapons. That makes two justifications for invasion: 1: Responsibility to protect. The Economist supported the United States in this regard, as did the UN and Congress. 2: use of chemical weapons. This is another clear violation of international law and a justification for invasion. Iraq had ratified the Nuclear Non-Proliferation treaty in 1972 and had violated it. But yes, if the US goals were really so nefarious in Iraq then we failed completely. If we really wanted Iraq's oil we'd make much more of an effort to keep it safe, by stabilizing the country. However, there was ample reason to invade upon the criteria laid out in customary international law.

Of course the nuclear weapons weren't the reason, because there weren't any. And I don't buy that "the CIA had faulty intel" bullshit either, because if they truly are the Central Intelligence Agency working in service of the most powerful government and military on the planet, they knew damn well that they weren't there. Either way, the UN is not a world policing organization, it's merely a gathering of nations trying to work together, and we acted as the leader (and over 90% of the force) of the invasion of a sovereign nation. Despite what they were doing, we also violated UN guidelines for this attack, but since others were on board, I guess that makes it okay. Hypocrisy tends to go unrecognized as long as you win the conflict, but since we have actually made Iraq worse in many ways and we still have troops there that can't keep the country under control, I would not call it a victory. Also, it's not about their oil, as they don't produce as much of it as many other nations, it's about the perception that they have it and it's now in a warzone. With this being the case, simpletons don't riot and protest when the price increases by 200% because they feel that there is some justification for the cost, so stabilizing the country would theoretically crush this notion. It is still in the best interest of big oil, and all of their money invested in our politicians, to keep the war going. They preach about pulling troops out and scaling back on occupations, but all they did was send home the troops that were in service and sent out the reserves in their place. It's all a careful balancing act that has led to an approval rating of less than 30% for the government overall, but there have been no indictments or impeachments of any of these officials that are obviously abusing their power.

[BlutAusNerd]

The internet is great for arguing about things that don't matter! As for Scorpions, I don't own any of their albums but I'm thinking about changing that very soon. I like what I've heard from them.

Indeed you should, Taken By Force is one of the best metal albums of the 70's, and they had the best works from Sabbath, Priest, and Motorhead to contend with in the decade for that title.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Anger Thread! Hey anyone remember that Jiscariot fellow who loved Guns and Poseurs? Yeah IMO he was a bit annoying xD

[Scullicon]

The so called Guns N Poseurs have actually done one really good song.