Why do metal music fans believe in dinosaurs?

[~Mere~]

Why do metal music fans believe in dinosaurs?

Excuse me if this sounds rude or offensive in any way' date=' Iceni, but I have to ask: do you really know the Bible by heart that well or do you just have a number of quotes ready for when you rip someone's arguments to shreds?[/quote'] It's actually not that difficult to reference a verse to support what you're saying if one has some knowledge of the Bible. A couple of the bibles I own have a glossary which is helpful. Edit - Also, I just checked, one of them has a concordance.

[AtTheGates]

You haven't been around for that long' date=' so maybe he'll give you a pass...[/quote'] Indeed I haven't, but his arguments give the impression of not being a Christian at the least. Where did I state that? The gist of his arguments is hardly one that gives an impression of a religious individual. I maybe wrong of course, but that's the impression I've taken away from reading his posts.

[deathstorm]

perferct example of a living dinosaur. That is not extinct is crocadileans. Like crocadiles and the American alligator. They have been around since. That time

[BlutAusNerd]

Indeed I haven't, but his arguments give the impression of not being a Christian at the least. Where did I state that? The gist of his arguments is hardly one that gives an impression of a religious individual. I maybe wrong of course, but that's the impression I've taken away from reading his posts.

Iceni is definitely Christian, and he's not the only one here that is.

[Iceni]

Excuse me if this sounds rude or offensive in any way' date=' Iceni, but I have to ask: do you really know the Bible by heart that well or do you just have a number of quotes ready for when you rip someone's arguments to shreds?[/quote'] It's not insulting at all. Pretty much nobody knows the Bible by heart as far as I know; there are some Islamic societies where memorization of the Qur'an is considered a passage from adolescence but I don't know if there's a Christian equivalent. There are many people whose skills in argument I would not find formidable who nevertheless have memorized far more Bible verses than I have. I don't doubt I could improve my repertoire, but I did do daily Bible study from middle school onward, including a 2-year class where memorization was required, so I have a decent memory of certain stories and snatches of certain quotes. The web is very friendly to my attempts to find these verses, so that's how I have quotes ready.

[AtTheGates]

Iceni is definitely Christian' date=' and he's not the only one here that is.[/quote'] What a curious juxtaposition to the tone of his statements.

[BlutAusNerd]

What a curious juxtaposition to the tone of his statements.

I don't see how. I'm sure he could state for sure as I can only speculate, but it sounded like his statements were in regards to the OP's absurd fundamentalist views, not his position as a Christian itself. Many people claim to act in the name of God, but as their actions frequently represent a direct contradiction with the beliefs that they claim to have, I don't see why shaming that misrepresentation would mean that he's not Christian himself. Most of us have more background on each other than you would being new here, but even not knowing that beforehand, his words here still sound plenty Christian to me.

[MacabreEternal]

I was going to waste my time in providing an in depth response to this thread but due to my dinosaur believing, Stegosaurus corrupted brain, I can only think to respond that this thread was started by a fucking idiot.

[RaiCoss]

You do realise that the time you spent making that film and posting this thread could have been spent buggering alter boys yeah?

[RelentlessOblivion]

My friend I too believe dinosaurs were a lie, told to us as children in an effort to hide the truth, Pokemon are real!!! I'm hard pressed to think of a thread, created by someone who is 100% convinced their nonsense is gospel truth, funnier than this one.

[RelentlessOblivion]

I could say that 250 million years ago, chlorophyll used to be red. And you wouldn't be able to prove me wrong. Because it was 250 million years ago and nobody was there to see it. How do we even know the Tyrannosaur's name if it was around so long ago? Why don't you like the Norwegians?

We know its scientific name because the individual who discovered the original skeleton gave it this classification (Tyrant Lizard King is the translation from Latin to English in case you were wondering) just as the zoologist who first discovered the Tasmanian Devil gave it the scientific name Sarcophilus Sataniqus. As for the Norwegian thing we resent the stereotype that all headbangers are burly men who wield broadswords, wear chainmail, and exist only to pillage small coastal towns. Seriously though assuming that all metal fans have issues with body odour and other such unpleasant scents then voicing this belief to such people was not your best idea ever.

[AtTheGates]

We know its scientific name because the individual who discovered the original skeleton gave it this classification (Tyrant Lizard King is the translation from Latin to English in case you were wondering) just as the zoologist who first discovered the Tasmanian Devil gave it the scientific name Sarcophilus Sataniqus. As for the Norwegian thing we resent the stereotype that all headbangers are burly men who wield broadswords, wear chainmail, and exist only to pillage small coastal towns. Seriously though assuming that all metal fans have issues with body odour and other such unpleasant scents then voicing this belief to such people was not your best idea ever.

You mean we are supposed to wash?

[RelentlessOblivion]

My last word on this thread: Iceni you would make an excellent barrister.

[deathstorm]

The crocodiles and alligators. Are living examples of dinosaurs they had been. Here since that time.

[Iceni]

My last word on this thread: Iceni you would make an excellent barrister.

As you're studying law yourself I'll take that as high praise. Thank you very much.

[CADministry]

You do realise that the time you spent making that film and posting this thread could have been spent buggering alter boys yeah?

Resorting to ad hominems is the sign of a person so closed-minded that they won't even start to consider other points of view. In general terms to reply to some of the other earlier comments: - Yes, paleontology is largely fraudulent, specifically dino-paleontology. It's such a small field though, and those involved have so much invested in protecting the lie, that there is little chance to get them to admit the truth. They would have too much to lose. - Crocodiles and alligators are not claimed to be close relatives of any particular dinosaur. Crocs are reptiles, whereas we're told to believe that dinosaurs were able to self-regulate their temperatures and in many cases had feathers. We're also supposed to believe that enormous creatures like the powerful Tyrannosaur was made extinct by an event that allowed chickens to survive. Chickens are rubbish, I could kill a chicken in a second. - I am not a Young Earth Creationist, neither are most of the core members of Christians Against Dinosaurs. In general we believe the literature of science, including evolution. Personally I accept that evolution is a thing that happens, and that the Bible is largely metaphorical. As it says in Eastern Philosophy, 'the tao that can be described is not the true tao', and likewise the Bible needs to use allusion and metaphor to illustrate truths that cannot be put into human language. - Occult symbolism is of little concern to be, the symbols are just representative of a darker evil. A darker evil that had any of you edgy metallists ever actually experienced, you would stop flirting with. The power of light can banish this darkness, so it doesn't matter to me in the slightest if people choose to decorate themselves with Baphomets and the like. From a purely artistic perspective, I quite like the Baphomet. Plus its origins aren't really Satanic, it's more to do with Pagan fertility rites. Not exactly upholding Christian values, but there's a lot worse in the world.

[jfk36]

So let's get this straight, you believe in evolution, but deny the existence of dinosaurs? What did birds evolve from then, pray tell?

[GorboGorboze]

Resorting to ad hominems is the sign of a person so closed-minded that they won't even start to consider other points of view. In general terms to reply to some of the other earlier comments: - Yes, paleontology is largely fraudulent, specifically dino-paleontology. It's such a small field though, and those involved have so much invested in protecting the lie, that there is little chance to get them to admit the truth. They would have too much to lose. - Crocodiles and alligators are not claimed to be close relatives of any particular dinosaur. Crocs are reptiles, whereas we're told to believe that dinosaurs were able to self-regulate their temperatures and in many cases had feathers. We're also supposed to believe that enormous creatures like the powerful Tyrannosaur was made extinct by an event that allowed chickens to survive. Chickens are rubbish, I could kill a chicken in a second. - I am not a Young Earth Creationist, neither are most of the core members of Christians Against Dinosaurs. In general we believe the literature of science, including evolution. Personally I accept that evolution is a thing that happens, and that the Bible is largely metaphorical. As it says in Eastern Philosophy, 'the tao that can be described is not the true tao', and likewise the Bible needs to use allusion and metaphor to illustrate truths that cannot be put into human language. - Occult symbolism is of little concern to be, the symbols are just representative of a darker evil. A darker evil that had any of you edgy metallists ever actually experienced, you would stop flirting with. The power of light can banish this darkness, so it doesn't matter to me in the slightest if people choose to decorate themselves with Baphomets and the like. From a purely artistic perspective, I quite like the Baphomet. Plus its origins aren't really Satanic, it's more to do with Pagan fertility rites. Not exactly upholding Christian values, but there's a lot worse in the world.

Thank you very much for this last post, CADministry, it does so much for this annoying thread for you to have taken the time to deliver a bit of intellectual content. I have to admit that I'm glad to hear you're not a young earth creationist. I'm OK with people being so, I just find that kind of ideology impenetrable. I am myself something of a solipsist, and therefor try not to judge people for their thick headed philosophies, and don't really think much can truly be know about much. Add to that the mental construct that is the concept of a great deceiver and the chances of finding common ground with fundamentalist recedes from my view (by common ground here I mean any reason to engage in dialog). The possibility of a great deceiver actually existing is a real one in my mind, in so much as anything and everything that might be real likely is real, but though I do not personal believe in book writing divine entities, the bible, permit to say, shows as much the signature of a deceiver as that of a creator, and most churches contribution to society show that signature all the more so. I myself am a Unitarian Universalist, and I hope we have lots of reforming yet to accomplish. I'm interested in the idea that chickens are rubbish, I've killed dozens of them and It always takes way more then a second, but never mind about. I to find the reports of great extinctions tremendously disheartening, and have difficulty coming to grips with them, but consider the aspect of egg eating small mammals putting a strain on dinosaurs that birds could well be better insulated from then most dinosaurs. I'm having some thought that are outside of my expertise, but the reptiles of the world live in may ecosystems, and I admit it is hard to understand how they persist in laying eggs to this day. I can't explain why they have not been destroyed by egg eating small mammals. Geology is a big field of science, and I just wonder how you got the idea that dinosaurs never existed, and why you would doubt that birds are their descendants, is your approach to this issue from a scientific direction, or is it from a cultural one? What is your take on the threat of climate change? Do you acknowledge that possibility that the earth might be randomly and pointlessly be sanitized or outright destroyed by collision with any sort of large and or fast moving object from space, not by divine will, but simply by chance? And what of regional supernovas, does your world view allow for chance destruction? And just for clarity here, what is your take on the flood story in the bible? I need to go, but I'll come back to all this.

[GorboGorboze]

So in your second bulleted paragraph you say we are told to believe that dinosaurs regulated their temperature, and had feathers or hair like protofeathers, as I believe is more the case There is an interesting article about the evolution of feathers in a very recent Science News that ought to be read by anyone who doubts the connection between dinosaurs and birds, if hip construction is not enough to convince one of the connection. Anyway what I,m trying to get around to is that these ideas are recent ideas just becoming widely accepted in the past 30 years or so, and really coming current much more recently than that. I don't think that adds to the view of paleontology as being recalcitrant, it seems like a developing field more that a static and guarded one. I've held lots of fossils myself, seen many, yes I know great portions of most skeletons on display are plastic, and many species designations are represented by a scant fossil record. I'll even agree that too much is made of too little evidence, but that is normal over exuberance about a thrilling reality. It has a financial cause at times, yes I'm sure, but that is the nature of academia, I can't see a reason to believe that the whole dinosaur proposal is a fallacy on that count alone. Your last paragraph in this recent post convinces me of you sophistication, so I'm glad to read that from you are well, and pretty much fully agree. I liken the dark imagery found in metal culture to the use of demonic figures as warding symbols. They are often, I imagine, variously a protest, a complaint, a rebellion, a gimmick or employed as part of a sort of cargo cult and cultural affectation. That sort of thing probably accounts for a lots of it, but I think some of it is what I at least would consider authentic spell craft or even actual pathos, but it's hard to say. (cargo cultism could be low level spell craft onto itself. Anyway, thanks again for this last post, it removes, from my mind, the possibility that you are a top tier troll. It was your awkwardness in video making that made me think you were a troll, especially confronting the geese in the last scene. You use way to much humor against your self, and as I said, you allowed people who believe in dinosaurs to say they don't in your video and it makes it seem like you yourself believe in them. One last question, could you please explain in what way this is a ministry, this crusade you are doing, as you believe in evolution, and an old earth and such? How is this christian work you are doing? Oh and one more last question, what are you musical tastes?

[GorboGorboze]

Fuck, if the dude is a troll... I'm the biggest looser.

[CADministry]

Birds probably evolved from lizards, but I don't think even the best-read biologist in the world could give you an exact family tree of what evolved from what, there's always going to be a 'missing link', purely by virtue of the way we box things into species.

I'm interested in the idea that chickens are rubbish' date=' I've killed dozens of them and It always takes way more then a second, but never mind about. [/quote']Slight hyperbole on my part, the point being that in hand to hand combat, I would not fear a chicken. But a giant dinosaur? I'd have no chance. Yet somehow a massive asteroid killed all of them and missed the chickens?

[CADministry]

[paleontology] seems like a developing field more that a static and guarded one.

Or if you look at it a different way' date=' they realised their lies were becoming obvious, so new ones were made up to try to distract people.

[Demonic images] are often, I imagine, variously a protest, a complaint, a rebellion, a gimmick or employed as part of a sort of cargo cult and cultural affectation. That sort of thing probably accounts for a lots of it, but I think some of it is what I at least would consider authentic spell craft or even actual pathos, but it's hard to say. (cargo cultism could be low level spell craft onto itself.

Interesting points. As a teenager I was interested in both the metal and goth subcultures and I am very aware of the rebellious aspect of it. As I got older I started to find it a bit amusing how "We're all individuals" but we all dress the same and think the same things are 'cool', but look at how evil I am I told my parents to go away using rude words. As for authentic spellcraft? Well, I know a little of LaVey, and he basically admitted to being a carnival showman. He was in it for ego and to try to pull the wool over peoples' eyes as far as I can see. There are two lists of LaVeyan 'Satanic' commandments if I remember rightly, one has about seven entries and the other about eleven, things like, "When you are walking on the path, bother nobody. If somebody bothers you, destroy him". The first part I can definitely get on board with, but the second part seems unthoughtful. Most people don't upset each other on purpose, they do it through ignorance. That ignorance is usually unintentional, so 'destroying' somebody for offending your precious sensibilities seems a bit of a childish response. The only way to dispel ignorance is through education, and this links nicely back to what I was saying about Biblical metaphor: if you just throw facts/opinions at people they will likely feel lectured at and will stop listening, but if you tell them a story that illustrates the points you're making, they are much more likely to feel included and be more amenable to understanding where you're coming from. The only other sort of magic I know anything of is chaos magic. I find this quite insidious, because it claims neutral morality, which ultimately ends up being completely amoral. There's a very interesting talk on the subject by Grant Morrison, search on Vimeo for 'Grant Morrison Disinfo' if you'd like to see it.

One last question, could you please explain in what way this is a ministry, this crusade you are doing, as you believe in evolution, and an old earth and such? How is this christian work you are doing?

We all met through Facebook, we have a 10,000 member group on there. We're not technically a ministry, but we do go out into the world and spread the message. We had a very successful anti-dinosaur protest back in October.

Oh and one more last question, what are you musical tastes?

Many and varied. I have listened to a lot of metal and goth music in the past (I was never into the really heavy stuff, but there's some Pantera and Sepultura stuff that I quite like), various types of electronic music including drum and bass and psychedelic trance, I like a lot of acoustic/folk music as well. I find that in most genres there is something to like, but the majority of anything tends to be a bit rubbish, so I just find the ones that appeal the most to me.

[Iceni]

- Yes' date=' paleontology is largely fraudulent, specifically dino-paleontology. It's such a small field though, and those involved have so much invested in protecting the lie, that there is little chance to get them to admit the truth. They would have too much to lose. [...']We're also supposed to believe that enormous creatures like the powerful Tyrannosaur was made extinct by an event that allowed chickens to survive. Chickens are rubbish, I could kill a chicken in a second. - I am not a Young Earth Creationist, neither are most of the core members of Christians Against Dinosaurs. In general we believe the literature of science, including evolution. Personally I accept that evolution is a thing that happens, and that the Bible is largely metaphorical.

Slight hyperbole on my part' date=' the point being that in hand to hand combat, I would not fear a chicken. But a giant dinosaur? I'd have no chance. Yet somehow a massive asteroid killed all of them and missed the chickens? Largely scientific, with a bit of religious icing on the cake.

[BlutAusNerd]

The way chickens could cause the extinction of the dinosaurs would have been by eating up the food supply for animals upon which the larger dinosaurs preyed. More likely, chickens were simply more efficient organisms. Dinosaurs need a lot to eat. Once food becomes scarce it's better for one's own survival to be blessed with low energy needs. That and if the climate changes feathers would be of use as insulation. There are plenty of circumstances under which chickens could outbreed dinosaurs, it doesn't have to be a specimen-to-specimen deathmatch like in episode 27 of Samurai Jack. I still do not believe your claim that this is even a faintly scientific enterprise as none of the YouTube videos have any proper citations - the evidence is purely anecdotal at best - and the 'fact repository' on Facebook is completely useless; it's mostly filled with appeals to ridicule. Maybe someone's just hacked the page. In addition, you've yet to post any good evidence of the claims of your organization here - and in fact, if as you say you accept most science then it would seem that procuring scholarly journal articles to support your case would be a relatively easy task and a top priority. Maybe, but I suspect they'll also be ignorant. Anecdotal and case-by-case evidence can be useful for building a broader contention, but even within my discipline using case studies does not constitute sufficient evidence of a point - and in the field your organization aims to address, a much harder science where sample sizes are important and alpha-levels are at .01, the anecdotal evidence I'm seeing is woefully insufficient. An approach that focuses on pathos (or worse, some abused variant of 'common sense') really rubs me the wrong way. It circumvents the intellect to strike at emotion, which seems to me a very dishonest way of trying to get people to agree with one's positions.

Not only has this guy failed to back any of his claims with anything more substantial than a Wikipedia article, he has also failed to answer any of the multitude of questions leveled against him regarding why he is on this crusade. It seems that the only reasons that he has offered up are that it is a multi-billion dollar industry based on "make believe", that dinosaurs are poor role models for children, and that people have "been deceived". Respective to these points, I would then inquire, "Why not crusade against Hollywood, fantasy and science fiction authors, and others who make billions of dollars peddling fiction?", "Why not crusade against any of the actual horrible role models for children in the media and in society?", and "Why not crusade against a supposed deception that might actually have an impact on people's lives?" Unless you're in a related field of science that is somehow negatively influenced by this supposed myth, or are just overflowing with butthurt because your childhood notions of these ancient creatures were dashed when you "removed your head from the sand", I just can't see this having any meaning or point, especially now that he has expressed that he is not a young earth creationist pushing this agenda because he doesn't believe in evolution. What exactly is it that you're hoping to gain, or imagining would improve by dispelling the the existence of long since dead creatures? Why was this argument posed on an unrelated music forum, and leveled specifically against fans of metal? Was it because of the stereotype of metal fans not being supporters of Christianity, and is so, what exactly would disproving the existence of dinosaurs have to offer Christianity as a positive? Please, since you have failed to enlighten us as to why dinosaurs are not real, at least explain why it would even matter, as I don't think that I'm the only one here scratching my head.

[deathstorm]

Iceni and ban plus the fact man. Did exist during the dinosaur days there know as cavemen. Plus when you look at. Crocodiles and alligators. They are an example. Of dinosaurs. That still live among us. And also. Elephants. Are descending. From. Masdons and wooly mammoths Our. Big cats like tigers. And. Lions. Came from saber tooth Tigers. Orgin Sharks came from meglodon the giant shark. All those creatures. Came from dinosaurs I watch a lot of history read it about a lot. If dinosaurs are myth. Like he said they are. Then our animal life of today are myths then. you guys agree with me dinosaurs are reptiles. so are gators and crocs.