Anger Thread!

[Iceni]

Hey anyone remember that Jiscariot fellow who loved Guns and Poseurs? Yeah IMO he was a bit annoying xD

Erm...he might come back. And he was fine, no need to get really annoyed. Nah, there were some more obnoxious people on here, such as HuntikFan1017, who I think must have been either autistic or the most obnoxious person on the site. A handful of other annoying elitists scrambled on here but never really stuck around.

[Iceni]

Of course the nuclear weapons weren't the reason' date=' because there weren't any. And I don't buy that "the CIA had faulty intel" bullshit either, because if they truly are the Central Intelligence Agency working in service of the most powerful government and military on the planet, they knew damn well that they weren't there. Either way, the UN is not a world policing organization, it's merely a gathering of nations trying to work together, and we acted as the leader (and over 90% of the force) of the invasion of a sovereign nation. Despite what they were doing, we also violated UN guidelines for this attack, but since others were on board, I guess that makes it okay. Hypocrisy tends to go unrecognized as long as you win the conflict, but since we have actually made Iraq worse in many ways and we still have troops there that can't keep the country under control, I would not call it a victory.[/quote'] Well no, the CIA didn't have faulty intel. I think they made up the nuclear weapons story because it was plausible and because they needed the final push to actually get people to do something. Even then, they did still have a just cause (two, in fact), so to complain about implementation is a different matter. Simple fabrication of nuclear weapons production is not enough to warrant an invasion. Iran also has vast quantities of oil, but there's been no invasion attempt on them. Furthermore, North Korea has not been militarily punished for producing nuclear weapons either. Iraq used illegal weapons of mass destruction on its own people (chemical weapons) and was a one-party state ruled by a minority. That was more than enough legitimate cause in international law to unseat Hussein. As for us contributing the largest force...well, we've got by far the largest army in NATO. I'd expect the US to pull most of the weight in any deployment. Also, Iraq's oil reserves are substantial, they have the world's fifth largest. There is definitely oil there to be exploited, but the US is not doing that really well, which leads me to reject the dependency theory argument. The main problem is that the US is attempting to set up a friendly regime in a Shia Muslim state. Their closest ideological ally is Iran, so they'll naturally be attracted to that state, which doesn't work well for the US. If we wanted to fix Iraq we ought to have put more emphasis on the whole Responsibility to Protect and violation of NPT idea, and try to encourage the Shias to rebel against the Ba'athists. As it stands now it'll probably gravitate toward Iran but be a magnet for Al-Qaeda fighters looking to hone their skills against Shia police and military. I think at this point it's more about saving money, face and lives than it is about trying to craft a new nation.

[RelentlessOblivion]

the minute Saddam was caught all troops should have been pulled out and we should have just sat back, grabbed some popcorn and watched them all kill each other that's the only real solution to the middle eastern crisis because conflict in that region is so ingrained in the psyche of everyone there

[Iceni]

the minute Saddam was caught all troops should have been pulled out and we should have just sat back' date=' grabbed some popcorn and watched them all kill each other that's the only real solution to the middle eastern crisis because conflict in that region is so ingrained in the psyche of everyone there[/quote'] On any other forum you'd get verbally lynched for saying something like that... Could you at least try not to sound so much like C. Montgomery Burns? Anyhow, if we wanted to avoid that we ought not to have intervened in the first place. Better a home-grown revolution than an artificial one. People would suffer more in the short term but it would work out well in the long term and chances are we'd have a good relationship with the country.

[RelentlessOblivion]

I hope toddmc comes back that bloke was cool, and had a cool avatar

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Anger Thread!

Erm...he might come back. And he was fine' date=' no need to get really annoyed. Nah, there were some more obnoxious people on here, such as HuntikFan1017, who I think must have been either autistic or the most obnoxious person on the site. A handful of other annoying elitists scrambled on here but never really stuck around.[/quote'] Yeah I guess he was alright, haha, I just remember him having a go for not liking GnR, or maybe I was wrong, he was alright, even so If he comes back I'll welcome him

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Anger Thread!

I hope toddmc comes back that bloke was cool' date=' and had a cool avatar[/quote'] Now he was cool

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: The Rant

On any other forum you'd get verbally lynched for saying something like that... Could you at least try not to sound so much like C. Montgomery Burns? Anyhow, if we wanted to avoid that we ought not to have intervened in the first place. Better a home-grown revolution than an artificial one. People would suffer more in the short term but it would work out well in the long term and chances are we'd have a good relationship with the country.

haha, I just read what BAN said ovdr again imagining Mr Burns was saying it and you're right haha xD

[RelentlessOblivion]

he may well have been referring to what I said but honestly I'm sick to death of hearing about the middle eastern situation, honestly if my IQ was just a little higher I'd build myself a Dalek and set it loose upon the region

[BlutAusNerd]

Erm...he might come back. And he was fine' date=' no need to get really annoyed. Nah, there were some more obnoxious people on here, such as HuntikFan1017, who I think must have been either autistic or the most obnoxious person on the site. A handful of other annoying elitists scrambled on here but never really stuck around.[/quote'] I've never really noticed a whole lot of elitism here, and you would not believe how bad it gets in some places. We've definitely had some obnoxious people show up here, but never really along those lines.

[BlutAusNerd]

the minute Saddam was caught all troops should have been pulled out and we should have just sat back' date=' grabbed some popcorn and watched them all kill each other that's the only real solution to the middle eastern crisis because conflict in that region is so ingrained in the psyche of everyone there[/quote'] fKSJc2YFPrs

[BlutAusNerd]

On any other forum you'd get verbally lynched for saying something like that... Could you at least try not to sound so much like C. Montgomery Burns? Anyhow, if we wanted to avoid that we ought not to have intervened in the first place. Better a home-grown revolution than an artificial one. People would suffer more in the short term but it would work out well in the long term and chances are we'd have a good relationship with the country.

We'll never make the situation any better there, because we don't have their best interests in mind. The US does nothing to intervene in other locations where genocide and treaty violations are happening, but exploiting the oil in the region gives us a big push. Also, we don't want what the Iraqi people want, we want a system with a leader that wants what we want. We've been doing it for years, overthrow one dictator to put our own dictator into place, and as long as they agree with us (much like Israel), we turn our heads when they rape the country into poverty, kill civilians, and destroy any real chance the people of the country had at the freedom that we claim is our purpose. Our arrogance has led us to believe that not only is our system the best in the world, but that our system will work for all peoples and culture on earth. Other places in the world have very different mindsets, and a distinctly western system does not usually work when all of their fundamental ideas about life, society, and freedom are different. We need to stop trying to create an Iraqi America and just try to make a better Iraq, now that we have destroyed their infrastructure and built them a shaky system with tons of turmoil to deal with.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

hope we don't haha and ever since I have joined the forum, has it changed alot? haha, longest time I wasnt onn here was when it was down for re-vamping.

[NTNR]

I'm here all day...that's my anger today.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

the minute Saddam was caught all troops should have been pulled out and we should have just sat back' date=' grabbed some popcorn and watched them all kill each other that's the only real solution to the middle eastern crisis because conflict in that region is so ingrained in the psyche of *EVERYONE* there[/quote'] I may have got the wrong idea here Murph, and sorry if I have, but please don't just generalise a whole place like that, the Iranian girl I who was on the forum (and I added her on facebook too) is really nice and I talk to her often (obviously about metal and just general stuff, so don't go saying anything like huhu Dayv flurted) or something. xD as if you guys would anyway.

[Iceni]

I've never really noticed a whole lot of elitism here' date=' and you would not believe how bad it gets in some places. We've definitely had some obnoxious people show up here, but never really along those lines.[/quote'] Well, I see some elitism here, but maybe it is way worse on other forums. Do the elitists in other places make stupid comments about subjects they obviously know nothing about, in addition to failing to provide any substantiation for their polemical claims? I could stand elitism if it fostered debate.

[Iceni]

We'll never make the situation any better there' date=' because we don't have their best interests in mind. The US does nothing to intervene in other locations where genocide and treaty violations are happening, but exploiting the oil in the region gives us a big push. Also, we don't want what the Iraqi people want, we want a system with a leader that wants what we want. We've been doing it for years, overthrow one dictator to put our own dictator into place, and as long as they agree with us (much like Israel), we turn our heads when they rape the country into poverty, kill civilians, and destroy any real chance the people of the country had at the freedom that we claim is our purpose. Our arrogance has led us to believe that not only is our system the best in the world, but that our system will work for all peoples and culture on earth. Other places in the world have very different mindsets, and a distinctly western system does not usually work when all of their fundamental ideas about life, society, and freedom are different. We need to stop trying to create an Iraqi America and just try to make a better Iraq, now that we have destroyed their infrastructure and built them a shaky system with tons of turmoil to deal with.[/quote'] I agree with about half of this. You're right that the US has a tendency to depose heads of state when it feels like it (Congo, Iran, Haiti), and it doesn't always intervene when there really is a problem. I think the erroneous assumption that a lot of people made about Iraq was that Saddam was just the lynchpin. However, it's far from 'cultural arrogance' that provides the motivation for trying to create a US-friendly Iraq: that's just good policy. However, we're trying a bit too hard and yet not hard enough in that regard. Simply allowing an 'organic' (that's the term for domestic, don't know why it's used, but it is) movement to create democracy is much better. Condoleezza Rice made a statement something along the lines of 'cutting the head off' or Al-Qaeda. Now every counter-insurgency expert in the world would have facepalmed at that because that's not how COIN works at all - and it betrays a fundamental policy misunderstanding. I suspect it was assumed that a majority Shia country would help depose Saddam, be happy that the US supported democratic decision, and form a good government. As it stands they do indeed have a democracy even if it is weak. I don't think this is in keeping with the dictatorial deposement since Hussein was actually useful for the most part in keeping Iran at bay. The problem is that he made himself too much of a disgrace to support. The US does have a tendency to turn a blind eye to HR abuses by regimes that it likes, and I do oppose this policy not so much because it's wrong but because it's stupid. Trying to uphold the policy just makes the inevitable anti-American backlash even worse - as it did in Iran.

[NTNR]

Also, those around me who don't get the concept of "inside-voice". They practically shout at everyone they talk too. It makes it difficult to hear yourself think.

[Iceni]

Also' date=' those around me who don't get the concept of "inside-voice". They practically shout at everyone they talk too. It makes it difficult to hear yourself think.[/quote'] Are you sure your family aren't just all from New Jersey? My relatives on my Mom's side only get quiet when they go for a smoke. It's true of the girls here at the university, they scream for no reason and it drives me nuts. I swear almost everyone around me is deaf because I speak at what seems a perfectly acceptable register and yet they can barely hear me. Actually, I made up a theory that sometimes people are so loud and chatty that they take up verbal space so that it seems like more than one person is talking when they open their mouth.

[BlutAusNerd]

Well' date=' I see some elitism here, but maybe it is way worse on other forums. Do the elitists in other places make stupid comments about subjects they obviously know nothing about, in addition to failing to provide any substantiation for their polemical claims? I could stand elitism if it fostered debate.[/quote'] Yeah, there's seldom any discussion with elitists on the internet. The internet has made it so every asshole can have not only a soapbox to preach their idiocy from, but also the anonymity to avoid getting their asses kicked. With a couple of obvious exceptions there really isn't any elitism here, except when people seem to think that I am the elitist...

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Anger Thread!

people seem to think that I am the elitist...

Haha, well I CERTAINLY NEVER THOUGHT THAT!!! no no no *Cough*sarcasm*cough* no you arent enough of an arsehole, you are too awesome

[NTNR]

Are you sure your family aren't just all from New Jersey? My relatives on my Mom's side only get quiet when they go for a smoke. It's true of the girls here at the university, they scream for no reason and it drives me nuts. I swear almost everyone around me is deaf because I speak at what seems a perfectly acceptable register and yet they can barely hear me. Actually, I made up a theory that sometimes people are so loud and chatty that they take up verbal space so that it seems like more than one person is talking when they open their mouth.

These people aren't family, they're coworkers and they make my job suck.

[Scullicon]

coworkers making your job suck? well, welcome to the club. I seriously want to carve the instructions in some peoples foreheads backwards and give them a mirror to be able to do their job.

[Iceni]

These people aren't family' date=' they're coworkers and they make my job suck.[/quote'] Mah bad.

[RelentlessOblivion]

yes Dave you have misunderstood me, the conflicting parties of the Middle East are so adjusted to their petty grudges that the only solution is to step back, cease all material assistance for either side and let them resolve it themselves even though the consequences of doing so are severe, of course the civilian population in general do not support the continuation of conflict they are the ones who suffer for it but the alternative is that the Allied Forces invade every country in the region and overthrow all governments before forcing the democratic system upon these nations then invading again when the new leader turns out to be worse then the old one