Old vs. New

[General Metal]

So, lets say you are listening to Kataklysm, or to Nightwish, or Sonic Syndicate, or Cryptopsy etc; there's very few people in this world that can't tell the difference between vocalists in these bands. So what I want to know, as a general discussion from the metalhead fan base, and forums, is what bands do you know that have changed vocalists after a few years, and albums, and who do you prefer? Furthermore, style of music too. For example, Old In Flames (1993-2003 or 2005 if you can justify it) vs. New In Flames (2003/2005-present). My opinions on all of the bands listed above; VOCALS: Kataklysm: older vocals were good, by Sylvain Houde, but I felt were too raw in comparison to the newer vocalist, Mauricio Iacono's growls, and didn't quite fit in with a Death Metal band, so much as a Black Metal band. Nightwish: Tarja gave Nightwish their impressive, brilliant, operatic vocals and in a sense suited their older music one hell of a lot more than the new vocalist's vocals would... having said that I think that Amaranth is the perfect song to use as an example of this, Tarja's vocals could NEVER suit that song. Sonic Synicate: ..... I'm just going to say "0lD eez B3773R" like a purist, resistant to change, and leave it there. Cryptopsy: I haven't listened to enough of their new stuff to really know the vocalist's style (or name for that matter), but Lord Worm... on the few occasions when I have listened to that man, I have been in awe. STYLE: Well, since I only referenced In Flames in there, I suppose I had better start there. In Flames older style, even back in the days of Mikael Stanne (may be misspelling that), was amazing. However, I find that Come Clarity was the high point in their career. However, I still think I can safely say that Old In Flames had a better selection of music in their albums, such as Whoracle, and Clayman, which were followed by Soundtrack to your Escape. So much difference there...... Opeth are another band that have done this I'd say, with their style going from a progressive death metal sound, to more of a light, softer, rock influenced sound (that still sounds absolutely amazing!). Damnation and Deliverance were brilliant, and I cannot fault their newer stuff. I only need two of their albums... how depressing is that? Can't wait for their new release in September. Anyways, that's all from me for this single post. Give out some bands, compare the old and new, and let me know what you think about these and several other bands. All genres are welcome

[Zyggiefromjiu]

Re: Old vs. New old scar symmetry and new scar symmetry would be a good comparison, the new singers are good but they just can't get the same awesomeness that Christian brought to the band, i'm sure people will have more to say about that

[Iceni]

Re: Old vs. New Well, I don't think either of the Scar Symmetry singers who are in the band now will match Alvestam but they're good stand-ins. The first one that comes to mind is HammerFall. They've kept the same vocalist but they really disintegrated on No Sacrifice, No Victory. Infection also has pretty lame lyrics, but musically, it's recovering from the conciliatory nature of the previous album. Then 7days is somewhat disappointing. Their first album was great melodic progressive metal, but their latest stuff has more of the power metal cliches, especially rapid and monotonous drumming. Plus they hired Christian Rivel to do vocals. Why they would do that when they already had Thomas Vikstrom on board (when he did a great job on their first album) I have yet to find out. Apparently it's a project of the guitarist, Markus Sigfridsson, who said he wanted something more symphonic. I honestly wish he'd retain the prog elements. It made the band much more unique and enjoyable. Pyramaze has swapped vocals, from Lance King to Matt Barlow. Apparently they've further changed to Urban Breed of Tad Morose, but I haven't heard his work yet. I like Barlow more. It's not as if King didn't work, but Barlow helps to emphasize the dark sound that Pyramaze is supposed to have. I'm disappointed in HB...they used to be great, and their work on Pikki Lihassa is still some of my favorite gothic metal. However, their new album Paakallonpaikka is a step down. It's much simpler, with the exception of maybe three songs, and vocalist Joanna Aaltonen doesn't seem to be in as good form as she was on HB's previous albums. In addition, Janne Karhunen is gone. He was a great guitarist and he threw in a much-needed technical edge. Thank goodness Antti Niskala is still there to keep the keyboards up to scratch. Eisbrecher has the same problem; they used to be a lot more interesting but now they're giving off an unwelcome electropop feel. Nocturnal Rites' older material was much more typical power metal. Their newer stuff is a mix of that and hard rock sensibilities, which I like a lot better. It's more distinctive and Johnny Lindqvist's voice works well for the music. Stephane Pare has brought a lot of vocal power into Quo Vadis, which has helped to make the band even more gutsy than they used to be. Symphony X will be a raging debate - I personally prefer anything after The Odyssey, especially Paradise Lost and Iconoclast, because I think it's more powerful.

[Zyggiefromjiu]

Re: Old vs. New i absolutely love everything symphony X has ever done, from divine wings of tragedy to paradise lost, haven't had a chance to listen to the new album yet but i love that they have been getting slowly heavier since divine wings

[Iceni]

Re: Old vs. New Wow, someone who likes old AND new Symphony X? Well, good. Definitely check out Iconoclast. Most guys are either die-hard old Symphony X fans or they really like the new stuff.

[General Metal]

Re: Old vs. New Ok, so I listened to some of Iconoclast, and the song "Of Sins and Shadow". and I can honestly say that I liked both. I think I actually prefer the sound of the old stuff, but I don't think I have even NEARLY listened to enough to make an informed decision on that... Also, when did Scar Symmetry get new vocals? I hadn't heard of that. Although having said that, whenever I listen to them, I can't move passed "Morphogenisis", or the Holographic Universe albums, so I listen to a very narrow range of their stuff, despite having 3 of their albums on my ipod... HammerFall I haven't listened to, same with 7days, or Pyramaze, so I can't really comment on those particular bands. I'll admit, I'm not a Power metal fan though, not like my Death metal. One thing that I REALLY want to discuss here is Edge of Sanity. That band seemed to be forever changing, and some of their stuff is absolutely brilliant, but having said that, I don't know what is better. The classic 40 minute song, "Crimson" was beautiful, but their remake of it, "Crimson II" I thought lacked the same sound quality. It sounded far more produced, and therefore, clearer, sure, but at the same time that means that the song is morphed. I liked that the new version sounded soooo different, but the instruments, and the structure all sounded different enough that I would hardly call it the same song.

[Iceni]

Re: Old vs. New Scar Symmetry got their new vocals right after Holographic Universe. Dark Matter Dimensions and The Unseen Empire have the new singers.

[The Metal Advisor]

Re: Old vs. New

Dark Matter Dimensions and The Unseen Empire have the new singers.

Sub par albums to boot, sadly.

[Iceni]

Re: Old vs. New

Sub par albums to boot, sadly.

Well, I thought both were perfectly good. But I think if people hadn't been told there was a change they might start thinking the vocals were a bit different. I don't think they would have flipped out and said somewhat dumb stuff like 'funny thing is they needed 2 singers 2 replace christian...XD' I think the vocals are different, not necessarily worse. That said, though, they do seem to be going for a more pop-ish vibe on some songs, which I don't like. Plus I HATED some of the lyrics in The Unseen Empire...downright corny. It's at this point that I switch to Solution .45. Alvestam lives on in that band.

[The Metal Advisor]

Re: Old vs. New

Well, I thought both were perfectly good. But I think if people hadn't been told there was a change they might start thinking the vocals were a bit different. I don't think they would have flipped out and said somewhat dumb stuff like 'funny thing is they needed 2 singers 2 replace christian...XD' I think the vocals are different, not necessarily worse. That said, though, they do seem to be going for a more pop-ish vibe on some songs, which I don't like. Plus I HATED some of the lyrics in The Unseen Empire...downright corny. It's at this point that I switch to Solution .45. Alvestam lives on in that band.

Well, I personally think they're both inferior to Christian, but I'm a huge fan so take my opinion with a grain of salt. The song writing has gotten worse, and Dark Matter Dimensions had one too many core elements that I couldn't ignore. My initial impression of The Unseen Empire was positive, but it slid downhill fast. I love Solution .45, but I think The Few Against Many is better. Miseration rocks as well.

[Iceni]

Re: Old vs. New I guess I need to check out The Few Against Many...do they use keyboard? And I LOVE Miseration. Although, on topic, I think Random Eyes' latest album, Light Up (no, they aren't a stoner band) is a notch below their previous effort, Invisible, which had much more prog elements which made it quite respectable. Their solos are good, but I miss their old rhythm guitar...leagues ahead of what they've got now.

[The Metal Advisor]

Re: Old vs. New

I guess I need to check out The Few Against Many...do they use keyboard?

Yes sir. Lots of it.

[Iceni]

Re: Old vs. New

Yes sir. Lots of it.

Yaaarrr! I'll go listen to some of them then.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Re: Old vs. New Anthrax seems to repeatedly change between Belladonna and Busch (think I spelled that right) I like Joey Belladonna's voice better coz it always reminds me of the classic albums, but talking about Anthrax is probably uncool here

[NTNR]

Re: Old vs. New I think old will always be better then new when it comes to music. There are some exceptions (Tim Owens is a superior vocalist to Rob Halford and Jugulator was a criminally underrated album) but over all old is better than new.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Re: Old vs. New been a whiie since anyone's bothered to post here that being said NTNR there are some new albums which are better then the older ones, for example Megadeth's Endgame was probably the best album they did since Rust In Peace, I actually liked it more then RIP actually, and sticking with Megadeth, United Abominations was a very good album as well, Iron Maiden on the other hand have been dreadful in recent times, really since Bruce came back into the band really, Judas Priest have been hit or miss, Angel Of Retribution being a dreadful album but Nostradamus was very good, and there are bands which are consistently good throughout their albums, then again there are also bands which are consistently horrible throughout all their albums, slipknot springs to mind for example, I think it just depends on the band, some bands newer material may be better, some bands older material may be better

[Iceni]

Re: Old vs. New

I think old will always be better then new when it comes to music. There are some exceptions (Tim Owens is a superior vocalist to Rob Halford and Jugulator was a criminally underrated album) but over all old is better than new.

I must wonder how much of this is based on nostalgia, honestly. I think there are some great albums coming out right now. I think band musical talent is often a parabolic curve - they start good or OK, get awesome and then get kind of boring again. So the principle that older is always better seems pretty flawed to me. Then again, I'm not picky about having scratchy sound production - as long as it's heavy, groovy and technical I'll probably be satisfied.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Re: Old vs. New it's much like I said it will vary from band to band and person to person, some bands old material may be dreadful but their newer music may be great and vice versa

[The Strategos]

Re: Old vs. New

it's much like I said it will vary from band to band and person to person' date=' some bands old material may be dreadful but their newer music may be great and vice versa[/quote'] Or just completely different, e.g. Nightwish

[NTNR]

Re: Old vs. New

I must wonder how much of this is based on nostalgia, honestly. I think there are some great albums coming out right now. I think band musical talent is often a parabolic curve - they start good or OK, get awesome and then get kind of boring again. So the principle that older is always better seems pretty flawed to me. Then again, I'm not picky about having scratchy sound production - as long as it's heavy, groovy and technical I'll probably be satisfied.

Actually I'm not basing it on nostalgia at all. I prefer originators to clones. There are some instances where the clones are arguably better (funny when that happens) but overall those who came first just did it right. If it ain't broke don't fix it, while an excellent quote to live by makes music go septic. You don't have to reinvent the wheel to make it new and amazing again but there's nothing wrong with slapping a new coat of paint on it. Or putting it on a different vehicle or using it for a different purpose. Too many new bands play an old formula that worked for it's creators but doesn't work for them.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Re: Old vs. New in other words too many Metallicas not enough Nevertanezras? perhaps you'd be interested in the NEW vision I have for my band (and finally I have a second guitar player) progressive+power+thrash=something I don't think is currently being done, and if it is I'll have to come up with a new idea

[NTNR]

Re: Old vs. New

in other words too many Metallicas not enough Nevertanezras? perhaps you'd be interested in the NEW vision I have for my band (and finally I have a second guitar player) progressive+power+thrash=something I don't think is currently being done' date=' and if it is I'll have to come up with a new idea[/quote'] Actually, I wouldn't say there are too many Metallica's. The one we have is too much. That comment was mostly pointed at the power & black scenes. Too many soundalikes and not enough originality. Like I said, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. That doesn't mean you can't update or alter its facade.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Re: Old vs. New well umm that was actually the point I was getting at, too many bands sounding exactly like their biggest influence (Metallica clones for example) not enough doing things their own way like your band, or some of the others I've heard mentioned around the forum

[The Strategos]

Re: Old vs. New Mnn, Murph1990, I like the sound of your new band!. Power metal could really do with a hard side - the "evil one with a dragon's he-head" and "ice flake on my heart" stuff is great, but something dark and manacing could be awesome ! You would probably need a good singer though.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Old vs. New

Mnn' date=' Murph1990, I like the sound of your new band!. Power metal could really do with a hard side - the "evil one with a dragon's he-head" and "ice flake on my heart" stuff is great, but something dark and manacing could be awesome ! You would probably need a good singer though.[/quote'] Real power metal has balls, unlike the faggy flower metal crap you're referencing.