First Wave Black Metal: Influence or Genesis?

[HellKell]

So lately I have been on a kick of sorts, mostly 1st wave BM bands like; Venom, Sabbat(Japan), Mercyful Fate, King Diamond, a new band called Dracula. Long story short looking for bands in this vein of music, new or old.

[FatherAlabaster]

Our main moderator, BlutAusNerd, would know the most about this, but he hasn't been able to come around lately. I don't get into the first wave stuff, aside from a bit of old Bathory, but we've talked about it in the suggestion thread stickied at the top of the section. All kinds of stuff in there, hopefully the links still work. 

[HellKell]

I will do some digging around, just feeling my way out still, thus far liking the vibe on here. I can usually find bands on my own but where I stay metal heads are far and few. Most these days people around me are into djient or deathcore. Then again where I cam from there was no music scene LOL

[BlutAusNerd]

Yeah, I love first wave black metal and listen to a ton of it. This list is nowhere near all inclusive, but it should hit on most of the big first wave players: Venom Hellhammer Celtic Frost Mercyful Fate Bathory NME Sodom (up to Sodomy and Lust) Destruction (up to Infernal Overkill) Kreator (debut and demos) Tormentor Sarcófago Vulcano Bulldozer Mayhem (Deathcrush, PFA, etc...) Treblinka (Swe) Morbid (Swe) Poison (Deu) Sabbat (Jpn) There are plenty of bands from the start of the second wave that have a similar feel, as well as more atavistic bands of today still making music along these lines, but that should be a solid start for you. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[RelentlessOblivion]

I have to step up my own game when it comes to first wave BM. Not a strong point in my collection. Mind you there's not really a strong area in my collection outside of Bay Area Thrash so you know plenty of work to do.

 

I dunno would you call Triptykon first wave BM? They certainly have some of that about them. To be expected though from a band which rose from the ashes of Celtic Frost.

[HellKell]

I would say that they are BM but not really first wave, they have a fair amount of gothic over tones too them. Going to have to give them a listen again

 

[BlutAusNerd]

I have to step up my own game when it comes to first wave BM. Not a strong point in my collection. Mind you there's not really a strong area in my collection outside of Bay Area Thrash so you know plenty of work to do.

 

I dunno would you call Triptykon first wave BM? They certainly have some of that about them. To be expected though from a band which rose from the ashes of Celtic Frost.

Triptykon is a kind of black/doom/gothic metal hybrid, not really first wave despite Tom's Hellhammer/Celtic Frost roots. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[MacabreEternal]

I agree with BAN there is so much more than BM going on in Triptykon's music.  They are a great listen as a result.

[RelentlessOblivion]

So this is a discussion which just started when I left my other forum. It hinges on the premise that first wave black metal A) has little in common sonically with what the genre would become and B) that there are few immediately identifiable traits attached to first wave black metal. Certainly some of the elements are there but does that in and of itself qualify the likes of Venom, Hellhammer, and early Sodom as black metal? It made for an interesting discussion there and I'm hoping for the same here.

[BlutAusNerd]

I think everyone knows where I stand on this topic by now, so I'll just wait for the first newbie to come by and put his foot in his mouth before I weigh in. Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

[RelentlessOblivion]

For the record I'm in the affirmative here. First wave black metal is still black metal though I still fail to hear any BM in the sound of Mercyful Fate. Death metal is not subject to such scrutiny even though the likes of Possessed and early Death have little in common with bands like Cryptopsy and Incantation. Even Atheist could easily be considered progressive metal if one were hell bent on precluding the founding fathers of death metal. Black metal seems to be the only place where such distinctions occur regularly in my experience.

 

They have a point though most first wave BM albums have little in common with the second wave bands and often sit on the border of other genres. Everyone knows what first wave black metal means but is that really enough? It's worth noting no one is arguing these bands didn't influence or inspire black metal musicians merely that they are at best proto-BM. Like I said it isn't a view I share but I enjoyed the discussion.