markm

OK, I'm about ready to relinquish the arm wrestling contest and say uncle. I have a couple of final points. One is, I don't use consensus for everything. Any number of albums I get, come randomly to me, I see a review or a list of new releases or a recommendation or I stalk some of the regulars here on my Bandcamp feed. But I do look at lists and reviews towards the end of the road to get an idea of albums I might want to check out due to the sheer volume of material released in a given year. The other point that I don't think I have the energy or ability to precisely articulate has to do with with relative truth vs absolute truth. Opinions will vary. But there are objective standards when it comes to evaluating art that aren't completely random, arbitrary or a matter of individual whim. Of course, it all comes down to personal opinion ultimately. But personal opinion can be informed by education, knowledge, training, etc. When Father Alabaster looks at art, as a professional artist, he will be able to see and understand things due to his training, and skill that I lack even though I will also have works of art that I like or dislike. His experience watching the Van Goh immersive exhibit, I would assume would be different than mine, even though I greatly enjoyed the exhibit in D.C. because of his experience. His ability to evaluate and pass judgement on a work of art will be different than mine. My wife and I saw King Lear with Hal Holbrook in L.A. My wife enjoyed it, but I studied it in a Shakespeare course in college and I performed in several Shakespeare plays. Lear is a tough play. It helps to have a good teacher point things out about the time, culture, and multiple layers of metaphor before seeing a performance to enhance your appreciation and enjoyment and to make an evaluation on the performance and production. Surely some level of objectivity can also be used when evaluating music.

Yes, and I have definitely noticed you posting many more albums outside of the meat and potatoes that I associated you with when we first met at M-F. At one point, I remember thinking, for a goat dude, Navy is pretty damn diverse in his tastes!

Nice work as always Zack! I always look forward to your articulate lists as you know you have pointed me towards some great albums on the gnarlier side of metal. I need to give Chasm another listen and will have to listen to Pharmacist as well as the rest of your list. Wake, Immolation and Daeva have all made it into my collection this year. Grimma and Misþyrming are top contenders for me for sure. Thanks for highlighting Misþyrming. Got my physical copy today. Your like the guy in the group that chooses his words carefully, so when you say you like something, I really listen. Shout outs to Sheol, Surge and Jon....got some serious homework from you guys.

Grimma/Rotten Garden Grimma/Frostbitten Mizmor & Thou/Myopia

Well, yes we have had these circular conversations many times. Now, your point seems to be that consensus albums are irrelevant because, by and large, they are not good to you. Ok, so at one level we are each the decider of our own musical universe. So, let me just stipulate, as with any argument, you have to agree on terms. And I think we have different understandings of basic vocabulary. What you call "good", I would call personal genre preferences or tastes which is different than being a critically good album. I just mean, many music fans might agree that Pink Floyd DSOTM and Wish You Were Here or Sabbath's Master of Reality or RTL or Left Hand Path or Peace Sells or A Blaze in the Northern Sky or Number of the Beast or Human or.....are objectively good albums but any of those might not be an album you or I personally enjoy for any number of reasons. But most metal fans would agree that those are significant "good" albums that have stood the test of time. Sure, you can argue that those and other albums that get placed on list after list are fairly arbitrary but nonetheless, they have held up overall. In fact, when you shared your death metal classic list of albums several years ago with me, most of the albums can be found on any number of classic DM lists. Those are, in fact, predominantly consensus albums. The difference is that they are consensus albums in a genre with stylistic tropes you happen to like! You often, come in and say, (paraphrase), well all of you mainstreamers just pile on these big platform commercial albums and claim they're great albums. But I think they suck. So if they're not good to me, then they're not any good because my opinion is all that matters at the end of the day. In these circular debates we have, you basically write off many consensus metal albums as not being "good" because stylistically they don't fit into your criteria for being underground, raw, filthy albums. While there are certainly truly mainstream albums (I.e. Slipknot-which I haven't heard and could be great I suppose) that are a joke, I was simply making the point that there are usually a handful of albums IMO in any given year that get a buzz that are actually worth the hype as being good albums. Now within that framework, I know that are many albums in genres that I'm not going to care for. Filters are essential for me to sort out the thousand points of light rather than taking blind stabs in the dark. We both know, having lived through all of the metal eras, that heavy music has evolved into a myriad of sub genres and is much more diverse than it was in the late 70's and 80's when we were coming up. So today, you get metal media outlets that gush over albums from in a wide range of styles that any one of us may or may not care for. That has nothing to do with the quality....it's just preference. Generally, I don't like most of today's power metal and tech death or what you might call modern death metal. So, I'm not fond of the new Blind Guardian or Hath albums. That doesn't mean they're not good, they just don't appeal to me. But, I can recognize that the Ashenspire or Wormrot are well written and played with creativity and great imagination. I'm just not interested in listening to them right now. This, of course, is why, you can have many different AOTY lists with no cross over. I think what you do is look for as many albums as you can in a given year that adhere to certain criteria. If the boxes are checked, than you purchase. You like them. Great. You use adjectives like riffy, filthy, raw. Those are what I'd call production choices or stylistic descriptions. They don't say anything about the quality of the album anymore than if I describe a Fu Manchu stoner album as being psychadelic with a big fuzzy guitar tone. They may tick boxes and still not be a "good" album, but I happen to like the album because I like Fu Manchu but I can still recognize In Search Of....isn't a great album, but I happen to like it. It's probably true that a number of the albums that have become classics in the 00's have elements that allow them to transcend genre. These are albums that I might describe as being memorable, with tracks that I can differentiate from each other, that have their own character and separate themselves from other albums or bands within their same genre. Albums that have replay value. Albums whose track feature variety and may have an album arc from front to back. And, these kinds of albums due to those characteristics probably are more accessible. And, yet many of the albums from your black and death lists also have many of those things-memorable tracks, unique character, differentiation and that oh so squishy X factor-good song writing. They have held the test of time. Some works of art simply have an undefinable sum of their parts that you can't put your finger on-they are simply exquisite. Beyond that, I'd simply point out that there are tons of metal fans that are open to both sides of the coin-the popular metal albums of a given year and more underground offerings. And, in my anecdotal experience, many of the more underground picks that make the grade in a given year-Undeath, Cerebral Rot, Undergang, Lamp of Murmuur, Profane Order, Of Feather and bone, Tomb Mold before they broke out of the cave, Nocroblood, etc., etc.- have a much greater chance for being keepers for me due to consensus. And when I say consensus, I also include on these forums vs. a random outlier pick on your list or any other "goat list" especially when it's one of 50-100 albums of 300-500 purchased by a single individual that I have a biased skepticism towards. And my bias is that is too many albums for any one individual to objectively analyze and the priority in my view is quantity based on genre tropes vs quality.

Well, I don't think the masses dimwitted or not are listening to most of the albums most of us talk about on this forum. You have very specific boxes you want checked. I don't process music in that way. We have very different criteria when it comes to evaluating music. But as they say, there's no accounting for taste.

It's a great record. Similar to records by Immolation, Darkthrone, and Autopsy, it's easy to think, Oh he just likes the popular ones, those are too easy. But sometimes consensus means that some albums are universally praised because they are actually GOOD. I mean, like there's a reason The Godfather is a popular movie.

Misþyrming-Með hamri & Grimma-Frostbitten-eni mini mani mo, catch a 2022 black metal album by the toe Autopsy-Morbidity Triumphant

Great eclectic list as usual with some albums I've listened to but should revisit (Ultha) and others I need to check out (Pharmacist, Imperial Triumphant) . Indeed, W is a beautiful listen. Thanks for your write-up!

Weyes Blood/And in the Darkness, Hearts A Glow Immolation/Morbidity Triumphant

Over the last 24 hours or so leading up to New Year's, I decided to listen to some of the albums I've been seeing on lists even, several not what I'd typically listen to see what the fuss was and maybe discover some new surprises.... Zeal and Ardor-I am certainly aware of Z & A and listened to their first album and wrote them off as an interesting hybrid, sort of slick genre splicing modern metal that you see on the big platforms like Rolling Stone, Spin, Treble, etc. But the new one is on so many lists, I said to myself, OK let's give this thing a listen. Zeal and Ardor combines the blues, gospel thing they do with short stabs at black metal theatrics and 90's alt/Nu Metal, sometimes reminding me of White Zombie and a lot of studio trickiery. I actually find them entertaining for a track or two but don't sustain my interest. Made through about 2/3 of the album. Ripped to Shreds/Jubian-I have spent some time with this album, but decided to revisit last night-solid OSDM IMO. Viagra Boys/Cave World-I dig these guys. Off the hook post punk Swedish band with an American born vocalist. Their album, Welfare Jazz was one of my non metal faves from 2021-a raucous, humorous look at scumbags, dregs, lowlifes and ne-er-do-wells but is more than just a joke band. The new one seems to take a satirical look at fringe internet/social media conspiracy theories like vaccines turning people into monkeys. It's a fun, swinging rock album with a fresh take on post punk IMO. Bill Callahan/Ytilaer-Callahan came to my attention, in 2019 with his album, Shepherd in a Sheepskin Vest that was on a bunch of end of year lists. He's a 56 year old singer songwriter that spent years as a recluse recording low fi alternative folk albums. But, he's newly domesticated and is recording a kind of neo folk and rock with a minimalist style- singer songwriter, gravely poets voice. Really like this guy. White Ward/False Light-Avant Ukrainian post metal darlings Sergeant Thunderhoof-The Sculptured Veil-UK psyche stoner I've seen on a few lists. Not crazy about the vocals that remind me too much of the smoothed out style of bands like Khemis and Pallbearer. Ghost/Imperium-wanted to see what the fuss was here. I remember listening to their first album and didn't really get what the buzz or the hate for that matter was all about except they play a kind of retro hard rock with Satanic lyrics. I don't hate the new one at all. It's catchy, bubble gum retro hard rock. That said, I didn't make it through the entire album once I got to their syruppy ballads. Watain/The Agony and Ecstasy of Watain-sounds like Watain Pixies/Doggerel-low key Pixies---fine but not really grabbing me Rosalia-Motomami-Spanish pop singer with a mix of genres. She engages in some Flamenco and has a nice range, beautiful voice and I like some some Spanish music even though I don't really own much if any of it. Elvis Costello-The Boy Named If-not grabbing me, but enjoyable enough.

Your situation is different. You walk to the beat of your own.....blast beat, you don't work a traditional 9-5, your a bachelor and it's your main hobby. Living the dream.

I've sort of been off the res, but I've definitely bought less than 100. And as far as new metal and hard(ish) or heavy rock(ish), punk, etc. around 30 albums, that's really been about it. Probably double that when I broaden it out to non 2022 heavy oriented music if I include Queen, Swans and so on. And, I've been back and forth with some of the crew about spending time stalking new albums, but I lurk here and there, see recos here, go to some blogs, look at my BC feed, sample and buy many of my albums during aoty list season. I rarely use Youtube to find new music. I don't go to metal Youtube stations, no Black Metal promotion, none of that shit. It's not how I want to spend my time, personally.

You must be feeling better, FA!

Hypothetically or not, does a box set with previously unrelease of demos, rarities and outtakes of a bands singles constitute a new release? I'm going to say yes!

So, a few of my top shelf bourbons I've been enjoying over the holidays: Barrell Bourbon Uncle Nearest 1856 Jefferson Rye cognac cask finished

Giving this a listen right now based on your review. I've got De Doden Hebben Het Goed II which I've enjoyed quite a bit. If I'd seen it on Bandcamp, I'm sure I'd have listened earlier but for some reason, the band hasn't put it on their BC page. They've got their two De Doden albums I and II and a live 2018 recording. This is definitely cold and blistering with the harsh sort of BM vocals that straddles a fine line between blackened and HC vox to my ears.

Oh man, I've had that in my MC wishlist all year...it's really good, I should finally pay the few bucks for the darn thing.

Nice Navy. Well in the spirt of lists, I'm just going to dump all of the new albums as far as I can recollect I am working with bot metal and non metal in alphabetical order, Not all would make a list but they are all on the table! 2022 40 Watt Sun-Perfect Light Antichrist Emporium-III Autopsy-Morbidity Triumphant Blackbraid-Blackbraid I Black Country, New Road-Ants from Up There Cavernlight-As I Cast Ruin Upon the Lens That Reveals My Every Flaw Big Thief-Dragon New Warm Mountain I Believe in You Blut Aus Nord-Disharmonium Beach House-Once Twice Melody The Beth-Experts in a Dying Field Boris-W Boris -Heavy Rocks Bjork-Forcossa Bill Callahan-YTI⅃AƎЯ Cave In-Heavy Pendulum Chat Pile/God’s Country Darkher-The Buried Storm Crippled Black Phoenix-Banefyre Cult of Luna-The Road North Daeva-Through Sheer Will and Black Magic Darkthrone-Astral Fortress Dead Cross/III Dream Unending-Song of Salvation Sharon Van Etten-We’ve Been Going About This All Wrong Florist-Florist Grimma-Frostbitten Haunter/Discarnate Ails Immolation-Acts of God Ken Mode-Null Messa-Close Mizmor and Thou-Myopia Kevin Morby-This is a Photograph Nocturnal Triumph Otolith-Folium Limina Sigh-Shiki Smile-A Light For Attracting Attention Spiritworld-Deathwestern Voivod-Synrho Anarchy Undeath-It’s Time to rise from the Death Kurt Vile-Watch My Moves Wake-Death Through Descent Weye’s Blood-And in the Darkness, Hearts Aglo Wo Fat-Singularity

Candy/Hell is Here Crippled Black Phoenix/Baneyfyre Voivod/Synchro Anarchy White Ward/False Light Grimma/Frostbitten

There are so many sub genres now, you just have to take your best shot.

Speaking of lists and ambient metal, I've seen Kardashev-Laminal Rite on a bunch of lists and listening now. It blows. Chat Pile is an interesting animal. When I first streamed God's Country, I lasted about two tracks and bailed. Maybe I just wasn't in the mood to have someone scream at me but I've gone back and as I have the habit of doing have done a 360. I like it. They get tagged in part as sludge metal and maybe there is a thin Eyehategod influence, but the riffs have more in common with noise rock, hardcore, post hardcore and industrial. This is experimental social protest music. I like a fair amount of experimental rock and metal. I'm reminded of Daughters/You Won't Get What You Want album from 2018 which also reminds me that one of Daughters members was allegedly the dude that abused Kristin Hayter/Linguna Ignota, one of my favorite experimental artists who sometimes also ventures into noise, so fuck them. But as far as Chat Pile, I bought the album and have been listening to it. You need the lyrics to really get them. Abrasive and pissed off about a lot of shit partially because of the environmental toxins where they live near the "chat piles" in Oklahoma but the album IMO is quite inventive even catchy within the confines of their sound. Frankly, I need some heavy music out of the death and black box which I enjoy but get tired of and this certainly fills that void....

Hey man, I'm sorta shell shocked you listened to Darkher, but I need to give you credit as you do often try stuff that's out of your wheelhouse when people take the time to post, so kudos on that front. Totally get it's not your thing. I like that we have different tastes but respect each others listening space. Like you always say, it's just music. Not that I'm Darkher's PR man but I think what you're calling ambient is what the band refers to on their Bandcamp page as ethereal vocals, guitars, and added strings conjuring iridescent cinematic scenes in which it becomes hard to tell whether there lies beauty in darkness or if it is the other way around. There's a folk thing going on here that borders on new age. So yeah, there's a sea of of bands often in doom, sludge and post metal intersections that use extended atmospheric passages. For the sake of argument, I decided to re listen to the first track and there is definitely doomy guitar, albeit not super heavy at approximately 4.30 minutes with post metal(ish) tremolo. And from there on out, it's largely atmospheric. It's not a metal album. I compartmentalize my music into categories in a way you probably don't and have large chunks of non metal interspersed with heavy music.

OK, you Crust lovers- I know that includes Navy, GG and Dead to some extent at least. I don't think I've heard any of these bands except High Command which I don't consider Crust: https://yourlastrites.com/2022/12/29/best-of-2022-in-crust-we-trust-fresh-full-lengths-for-rotting-dumpster-divers/