Opinions on Smoking (and my View)

[Idlewilde]

Rebellion. People might continue smoking because it tastes good (although I hear that tobacco and cigars are apparently more enjoyable)' date=' but I suspect people first decide to smoke for a desire for rebellion. Believe it or not, there is a massive health craze in the US at the moment. It is pretty easy to find organic or vegan food in this country, and there are a great many ads emphasizing the idea of a healthy lifestyle. However, I suspect many people are tired of being told that they have to avoid enjoying themselves in order to live long. I would suspect that many people think smoking shows that you really don't care about what society thinks of you. The prog metal head I met on campus smokes.[/quote'] I have to admit I think exactly the opposite thing, although we live on different places and it might be the reason of our different views. Here EVERYBODY smokes. If we are like 10, there aren't more than 2 non-smokers.It is not a rebel to be mainstream in my view. N about vegan food...caring about your health...nope. In my opinion supermarket food is just different varieties of bad quality on different prices. And here people justtake what's cheapest.

[BlutAusNerd]

Rebellion. People might continue smoking because it tastes good (although I hear that tobacco and cigars are apparently more enjoyable)' date=' but I suspect people first decide to smoke for a desire for rebellion. Believe it or not, there is a massive health craze in the US at the moment. It is pretty easy to find organic or vegan food in this country, and there are a great many ads emphasizing the idea of a healthy lifestyle. However, I suspect many people are tired of being told that they have to avoid enjoying themselves in order to live long. I would suspect that many people think smoking shows that you really don't care about what society thinks of you. The prog metal head I met on campus smokes.[/quote'] Indeed, I do quite like smoking pipe tobacco and cigars, though I don't do it all the time. The taste and smell are MUCH better than cigarettes, but keep in mind that most of what you're smelling is just the mass produced shit like with anything else. Marlboro and Camel aren't really different from Budweiser and Coors in that regard, and there are cigarettes that use more natural and higher quality ingredients and smell/taste better (in addition to probably being better for you without all of the additives and fillers), but they are certainly not the norm, just like high quality beer. As to why people start smoking, I'm sure that has something to do with it. I know that others just do it to relieve stress, as the calming buzz that you get from smoking is potent and relaxing. I'm not a big fan of it myself, I vastly prefer the buzz of alcohol or marijuana, but I get that other people do enjoy it for that reason.

[Iceni]

I have to admit I think exactly the opposite thing' date=' although we live on different places and it might be the reason of our different views. Here EVERYBODY smokes. If we are like 10, there aren't more than 2 non-smokers.It is not a rebel to be mainstream in my view. N about vegan food...caring about your health...nope. In my opinion supermarket food is just different varieties of bad quality on different prices. And here people justtake what's cheapest.[/quote'] Perhaps there is a practically opposite pressure in Bulgaria. Here people often do it to rebel, but it sounds like that's more of a norm than it is a way of rebelling. Drinking alcohol is seen as a sign of manhood on college campuses in the US, so apparently lots of people like drinking when they're young. I'm fortunate in that I don't like the taste of alcohol, but these people seem obsessed with keeping up appearances.

[BlutAusNerd]

Perhaps there is a practically opposite pressure in Bulgaria. Here people often do it to rebel' date=' but it sounds like that's more of a norm than it is a way of rebelling. Drinking alcohol is seen as a sign of manhood on college campuses in the US, so apparently lots of people like drinking when they're young. I'm fortunate in that I don't like the taste of alcohol, but these people seem obsessed with keeping up appearances.[/quote'] It takes some people a while to acquire a taste for alcoholic beverages, but others never get it. I would just recommend not shutting it out completely in case your tastes do change, and try to remember that by and large the shit that people drink on college campuses is just that; shit. You can't really blame college kids though, when you're on a budget you've got to drink cheap, and if you're still new to it you may not have a taste for the good stuff yet, or even be able to tell the difference.

[satan 59]

Best thing that happened here in the UK when they banned smoking in public places. I don't smoke, never have, but you used to come home after a night out needing to change your cloths and have a shower, the smell yuk. I do miss the special cig smell at gigs though.

[Iceni]

It takes some people a while to acquire a taste for alcoholic beverages' date=' but others never get it. I would just recommend not shutting it out completely in case your tastes do change, and try to remember that by and large the shit that people drink on college campuses is just that; shit. You can't really blame college kids though, when you're on a budget you've got to drink cheap, and if you're still new to it you may not have a taste for the good stuff yet, or even be able to tell the difference.[/quote'] Well, the thing is that the kids at my school by and large come from pretty wealthy families and apparently have the ability to purchase the best kind of alcohol that they can. Besides, it's not the fact that they drink terrible alcohol that irritates me. It's the fact that they have this hilariously stupid idea that drinking alcohol somehow makes you a mature adult. The same attitude persists toward sex.

[MageTower]

Smoking, alcohol, drugs, easy sex - all of these are very bad, dangerous and unhealthy. Straight Edge is the best !

[LLUA]

I'm usually against drinking because it makes me feel like crap, As for smoking weed though, I support marijuana 100%, I don't see anything wrong with getting high off of weed here and there, It's great for when you need to focus, Or if your listening to music, It even gives you inspiration. So I'm all for marry J, But as for other things,like hard drugs, Can't say that I haven't done any, But I cant say that I support them like I do marry J.

[MageTower]

Marijuana is very harmful to brain, as far as psychiatric reserchers state. I know a lot of stories of people who got lower IQ because of smoking "Around 1000 people all born in the same year in the New Zealand city of Dunedin were interviewed at ages 18, 21, 26, 32 and 38 about their marijuana use. The participants were also tested for their cognitive abilities at age 13 before starting to use cannabis, and at age 38. The study found persistent cannabis use during teenage years was associated with a drop in IQ of seven or eight points by the age of 38." seven or eight points i 7 or 8% in most cases. "Regular marijuana use in adolescence is known to be part of a cluster of behaviors that can produce enduring detrimental effects and alter the trajectory of a young person’s life—thwarting his or her potential. Beyond potentially lowering IQ" Marijuana IQ Study Successfully Defended by Scientists | CADCA My own buddy form school started smoking and after that he became more chill-outed YES, but less intelligent, less smart, slower on reactions etc. Plus marihuana may cause really serious psychic conditions, like schizophrenia A Complex Link Between Marijuana and Schizophrenia - TIME

[BlutAusNerd]

Marijuana is very harmful to brain' date=' as far as psychiatric reserchers state. I know a lot of stories of people who got lower IQ because of smoking "Around 1000 people all born in the same year in the New Zealand city of Dunedin were interviewed at ages 18, 21, 26, 32 and 38 about their marijuana use. The participants were also tested for their cognitive abilities at age 13 before starting to use cannabis, and at age 38. The study found persistent cannabis use during teenage years was associated with a drop in IQ of seven or eight points by the age of 38." seven or eight points i 7 or 8% in most cases. "Regular marijuana use in adolescence is known to be part of a cluster of behaviors that can produce enduring detrimental effects and alter the trajectory of a young person’s life—thwarting his or her potential. Beyond potentially lowering IQ" Marijuana IQ Study Successfully Defended by Scientists | CADCA My own buddy form school started smoking and after that he became more chill-outed YES, but less intelligent, less smart, slower on reactions etc. Plus marihuana may cause really serious psychic conditions, like schizophrenia A Complex Link Between Marijuana and Schizophrenia - TIME

Not to dispute the research here, but many of those lines can be arbitrarily drawn, and the connection merely results from a mindset that may coincide with both things. For instance, people who focus more of their lives on habitual drug/alcohol use are typically less motivated to grow and progress in their lives, choosing to instead enjoy a temporary escape from reality. This same lack of motivation could easily produce the drop in IQ and perception simply due to laziness and not actively cultivating your mental faculties. Sure, it could still be the weed, but I find it interesting that scientists focus on exploiting a potential link as a part of their research, instead of looking at a deeper cause connecting the two. Cholesterol is one great example, as most doctors will tell you that it's bad simply because it shows up near the heart at the onset of heart disease. New research has shown that the cholesterol is present to aid the heart and blood vessels in time of need from the constraint of plaque buildup and/or poor nutrition keeping the vascular system from functioning properly. However, short sighted doctors just see it there and assume that it's part of the problem simply because its presence coincides, but they don't look at what it's actually doing there. However, since it discredits much of the medical community and would be a hefty blow to big pharma when they can't sell as many cholesterol drugs, circulation of the research is limited due to suppression from the medical community at large.

[deathstorm]

i never touched a cigaretter or a cigar inmy whole life i drink a littl alochal here and there but most of time i am drug free smoke free a but when a family members die this time= you need crack open a mikes hard for me

[Iceni]

I have to question why the research would be repressed. Big pharma does not control the government (unless they're 'too big to fail') or the scientific community. Peer-reviewed journals exist independently of these corporations and therefore are not under their auspices. I would admit to the research being discredited by other corporately-funded researchers, but it seems unlikely that the research would be entirely smothered. If it were then there'd be no sign it existed and making any arguments against the 'conventional wisdom' would be impossible anyhow.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Opinions on Smoking (and my View)

I have to question why the research would be repressed. Big pharma does not control the government (unless they're 'too big to fail') or the scientific community. Peer-reviewed journals exist independently of these corporations and therefore are not under their auspices. I would admit to the research being discredited by other corporately-funded researchers' date=' but it seems unlikely that the research would be entirely smothered. If it were then there'd be no sign it existed and making any arguments against the 'conventional wisdom' would be impossible anyhow.[/quote'] It's more about people's unfailing trust in our current medical system, and their assumption that a doctor's degree makes them all knowing. People still tend to ask their doctors about things that they read and hear from others for confirmation, and what do you think that doctor will say? At worst, they wouldn't risk losing their paid vacation from the pharmaceutical company that they receive kickbacks from and/or shrink the profits of their business, and it best they would disagree because they were taught something completely different from people they paid for their "knowledge". And yes, pharmaceutical companies and health insurance companies have politicians in their pockets as well, if they didn't, Obamacare never would have been passed, especially in its current state where it benefits nobody but those companies. I'm not saying that doctors are inherently evil, but they are getting rich off of killing people and/or making their problems worse through ignorance, and in any other industry their rate of failure would cause them to go out of business (too big to fail). We really just need to stop forgetting about our past and the things that we were doing correctly, and why we did them. When all that we focus on is our shiny new technology and making a profit, we forget why we got to that point and start messing things up. Genetic modification should theoretically solve world hunger by allowing food to grow in any condition (though it hasn't), but it messes with how food grows and provides us what we need in the first place. Filling your car with gas, but never changing any of the other parts and fluids means that it will only last so long, even if the raw fuel is the more immediate concern. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[Iceni]

I agree about Obamacare, but this rebuttal focuses entirely on practical application. That does still mean that the research itself doesn't get implemented in the healthcare system, but I took umbrage with the idea that circulation was too limited. It might be suppressed but for those genuinely interested in healthcare the research exists in scholarly journal articles. As long as it's there it isn't being suppressed, it just shows up in places most people can't be bothered reading about it.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Opinions on Smoking (and my View)

I agree about Obamacare' date=' but this rebuttal focuses entirely on practical application. That does still mean that the research itself doesn't get implemented in the healthcare system, but I took umbrage with the idea that circulation was too limited. It might be suppressed but for those genuinely interested in healthcare the research exists in scholarly journal articles. As long as it's there it isn't being suppressed, it just shows up in places most people can't be bothered reading about it.[/quote'] I would argue that it is suppressed for not having near the representation and circulation versus more accepted medical research. Metal music is not overtly suppressed by mainstream media, but it's also falsely represented, and naturopaths receive much the same treatment from MDs. The fact that they latch onto it means that it is met with scoffs from the larger medical community, much the same way that the musicianship of death metal musicians is written off as just noise because it's applied to death metal. So yes, you could argue that there isn't outright suppression, but their ideas aren't given any credence either simply because of those who relate to it. Another interesting thing about the cholesterol issue is that the same research that shows that cholesterol is good suggests that medication to lower cholesterol is also responsible for mental issues like Alzheimer's in the elderly. The human brain is composed of 85% cholesterol by weight, and medication that strips it from your system assures that your brain does not keep up regular maintenance, and your memory is the first to go. Naturopaths have been successfully treating Alzheimer's patients with eggs, but that idea will not be given credence in a profit driven medical system, because you can't make money from prescribing eggs. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[Iceni]

Does this research distinguish between good and bad cholesterol? From what I understand there's an equilibrium required and it's already understood that dropping below that level is actually bad for one's health. I must also ask: is this solution of eggs used in places like Denmark where debt is not an issue? Also, how do you not have profit-driven system? Anything that is of value means that people are willing to give something up to get it - which leads to the origins of primitive trade and barter systems.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Opinions on Smoking (and my View)

Does this research distinguish between good and bad cholesterol? From what I understand there's an equilibrium required and it's already understood that dropping below that level is actually bad for one's health. I must also ask: is this solution of eggs used in places like Denmark where debt is not an issue? Also, how do you not have profit-driven system? Anything that is of value means that people are willing to give something up to get it - which leads to the origins of primitive trade and barter systems.

No distinction, all cholesterol is good. At best, staten drugs were created to reduce cholesterol because it was perceived as a heart problem without thinking of the implications to the human brain, and at worst, it was invented as a way to sell more pills for a fictional problem. I can't judge the intent as I don't know what it was, but either way these drugs are not only making heart conditions worse by themselves (doctors tell you to change your diet and exercise in conjunction with the drug, which is really what is helping), but they're causing dementia by not giving the brain the materials it needs to repair itself. I'm not sure what debt issue you would be referring to, as eggs are cheap and readily available, and you'll most certainly spend more on a prescription drug than you will something that fits in with your diet anyhow (you have to buy food either way). My point about a profit driven system is that profit is the motivation, as opposed to the job description of making people healthy. Any nutritionist or naturopath will still charge you for their services, but they're not being given kickbacks by big pharma to prescribe drugs to you that you don't need. I run a small business, I know that everybody works for money, but you can't let it compromise your integrity. My point being that if there were no kickbacks given, and the system was actually set up based on merit of work (not paying for the service if it doesn't work, just like how I can't charge someone for a late or messed up delivery that was our fault), I believe that more it wouldn't be so bad. The concepts would still be incorrect, but they wouldn't run rampant from doctors performing useless tests to help pay for their medical equipment, and trying to fill their Pfizer quota to get a new car. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[Iceni]

OK, that's fair, but a great deal of the issue seems to be comprised of corruption issues. I did erroneously mention debt, but the reason I did so was to ask whether these cheaper practices are used for industries that don't need to balance profits and expenses - i.e., government healthcare agencies. Do you think these flaws in the healthcare systems are ironed out in transparent, market economy nations like Qatar or Singapore?

[deathstorm]

hey what about thise new electric cigarettes that hitting the market talking about static shiock and smoking at the time

[Idlewilde]

hey what about thise new electric cigarettes that hitting the market talking about static shiock and smoking at the time

I personally think they may turn out quite bad cause in order to extract the nikotine from tobacco chemicals are used-it's a bit more scary in my opinion. Although I'm not a smoker, I'm not really updated on those things. But I don't support streight-edge at all. Escape from reality is needed, one way or another. And if someone thinks he/she doesn't escape reality only because he/she doesn't drink or use drugs, think about all the escapist pleasures we have-music.TV.movies.books. Every fictional story we hear about is partially an escape from reality, we go to a world where our reality is non existant. We watch movies because of that, we listen to music also for the same reasons. Not that it is THE ONLY reason why we do that. There are many others, I won't discuss them now tough. Everyone needs to shut off his systems to the rest of the world for some time and I personally think this is essential in order to work better and feel better in our reality the way it is. It is some type of a break, a time-off that helps us regain our forces. But it's not only that. If we lived only in our world without having our head in the clouds for some time there wouldn't be any art, idealism...or all those things we cannot feel or touch that make our lives worth living. SO many lovely works of art are created thanks to the fact that a writer drank some more wine. Or smoked a joint It's not nessecary, you can daydream without drug-use. But it makes people think out of the box and create something original. Thanks God Bobby Dylan smoked weed!!!! I dunno what I would do without his music, it means so much in my life. I bet you all love something that was created because someone used drugs. And there are many more examples. I'm just trying to say that some "drugs" like weed and alcohol might have a mind-opening influence. Of course I don't support their use on a regular basis. I personally never smoked weed, I drink when I go out. It makes me have fun, and nobody managed to prove that a few per week are a bad thing. And there are alcohols that taste good! Now I'm thinking about the times at Wacken when I had Jagermeister with an energy drink...mmm....

[cd_b]

I'm not sure that electronic cigarettes do use chemicals to extract the nicotine as such - the nicotine comes in liquid form in a cartridge, and is simply vaporised when you draw on the cigarette. That said, I've tried them and didn't get on with them. The reason being that because you're allowed to smoke them anywhere, the temptation is greater. I found myself going out for a normal cigarette and then taking a drag of my e-cig within five minutes sometimes, just because I could. Anyway, I'm someone who smokes and drinks pretty much every day, plus I'm a regular marijuana user, and I have tried a variety of other drugs in my life as well. So my philosophy is very much along the lines of, so long as it's not hurting anyone else, it's my body and I can do what I like to it. And to the comments regarding the effect that drugs can (do?) have on the IQ, as previously pointed out it very much depends on the person. Of course if you take them to excess then they will have an adverse effect, but it's the same as everything - all in moderation. You could argue that if you eat too much of any particular "healthy" food it would damage your body in some way, so that's no different really. Like I say I've taken many different substances in my time and will continue to do so. I'm still a reasonably eloquent and intelligent human being, with a decent enough job and a happy life, so why the hell not!

[Iceni]

There's a difference between reading John Stuart Mill and mainlining. Straight edge irritates me for one primary reason: from what I can tell it pretends to be Christianity without any actual theology. It could perhaps draw from Buddhist ethics as well (especially with regards to drugs) but for the most part it strikes me as a marketed version of the Christian image without that whole annoying God thing that makes the whole religion difficult. It's cynical and pathetic, a purely commercial attempt to cash in on a vague conception of 'honor' based on pathology rather than theology.

[deathstorm]

i take a drink every once in a while not all the time

[Parker]

You guys are now writing dissertations. It's getting a little extreme. Smoking sucks. It makes you feel high the first couple of times, then you're addicted. Then you need them to feel normal. So if you smoke you've found an expensive way to "feel normal." In other words it's a waste of money. If others choose to smoke, I don't care, as long as they don't blow it in my face.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Re: Opinions on Smoking (and my View)

You guys are now writing dissertations. It's getting a little extreme. Smoking sucks. It makes you feel high the first couple of times' date=' then you're addicted. Then you need them to feel normal. So if you smoke you've found an expensive way to "feel normal." In other words it's a waste of money. If others choose to smoke, I don't care, as long as they don't blow it in my face.[/quote'] thats my attitude towards smoking too, my grandad died last week from breathing problems, he had smoked a lot but gave up about 10 years ago.