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Do you think metal could ever become massively popular again?


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My "that's not metal" attitude comes from bands that are really pop in metal clothing. I personally believe that this is an important distinction, as for the last few decades, pop music has become so banal and stuck in a creative nadir of pandering to the lowest common denominator that anything it is mixed with is like oil and water. I don't just say this with metal, but all genres, though since this is a metal forum and that's predominantly what I listen to, that's what you hear me say it about. Good Charlotte isn't punk, they're pop, which should take nothing away from legitimate punk bands because it's not the same. Same goes for crap like Rascal Flatts being labeled country, Lil Wayne being labeled rap, and all of the various screamo bands being called metal. There's plenty of metal I don't like, I have a hard time with slam death, really blasty tech-death and black metal, Euro flower metal, some gothic metal, retro heavy/thrash/occult rock, but I'm not going to say that it's not metal because I don't like it. This is also not to say that metal bands can't mix their sound with other genres, quite the contrary as I like interesting hybrids, but mixing any genre with pop music totally negates its original purpose and it becomes invalid in my eyes. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
I agree, Blut, especially the 'punk' analogy coz I'm steeped in it. But the parallels you draw are obvious. Of course Good Charlotte aren't punk, but for some to say that Slipknot, Machine Head and Trivium aren't metal is utterly preposterous. They may not fit into some folks 'photo-fit ID' of metal, but they're metal. They may have 'image' issues for some folk, but they're metal. And they get slaughtered by some metal fans that should be 'supporting' them them (note-I said support, not 'like' nor buy their records. I hate Metallica, but I support them and stick up for them coz they're metal, and important to the scene). I will not, nor ever be, part of the Metal Taliban. The music's too important to look at. It should be listened to.
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No' date=' all of those genres are so intertwined with pop music now that they will go nowhere. Trends will come and go, but the pop variants of rap, hip-hop, emo, indie, country, techno, etc... are going nowhere. Just look at American Idol, those main genres show up there without fail and win, with millions voting for each, more than for the presidential election even. Those genres all still exist without pop music in legitimate forms, just like everything else, but the genre mixed with pop is what everyone sees.[/quote'] Fair enough. Still, these genres have undoubted shortcomings which damage them inherently, like boy bands and rap. Because rap is primarily based on clever wordplay and bragging I find that there's something inherently lacking in the art form. I can appreciate some rappers for being good at their craft, but that doesn't change the fact that their craft doesn't take as much talent as others. Try the Metal BNP. The Metal Taliban would be more like Satanic arsonists who only listen to kvlt Norsky black metal, possessed of the quaint notion that church burning is somehow a useful way of sticking it to the man. I refuse to support artists if they suck. Granted, even the worst metal bands have the advantage of overdriven guitars, but Slipknot get the kind of support they deserve: everyone feels sorry for Jordison and that's about as far as it goes. Furthermore, groups like Bring Me The Horizon do not belong in the metal category because they do not put in enough effort. I agree with your general point on objectivity; Vital Remains are spectacular, but I don't listen to them. However, I can support Vital Remains because at least they actually make good music. I refuse to support lazy music - if they make lazy music then I'm going to be lazy about supporting them.
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Re: Do you think metal could ever become massively popular again? No, Trivium and Slipknot are not metal. I could entertain the argument that Machine Head was early on and may be again now, but I can't stand them. Even if they are metal, they're about as trendy and hip to pandering as any other pop artist, with Rob starting the band after thrash died departing from Vio-lence, doing groove when it was cool in the early 90's, doing nu-metal when it was cool in the mid 90's until it died out in the early 00's, and jumped on the melodic metalcore bandwagon when it was taking off in '04. This does not make me part of some "metal Taliban", I just believe in calling a spade a spade. It is UNDENIABLE that the bands mentioned have pop music in their sound, and though you may debate the percentage of metal to pop, pop is the polar opposite of metal. I do not believe that the two can coexist, as the pop elements weaken any metal elements present, instead of mixing well with them like jazz, folk, punk, ambient, or many other genres of music that focus on music instead of sales would. I do believe that metal should be supported even for artists that you don't like though, it's just that bands like that don't apply. They don't need it either, as pop bands they get tons of exposure, sell lots of music and merch, and go on world tours. The underground bands that do put tons of effort into their music and can't even recoup their recording costs are the ones that need the support. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

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The problem with music as a whole (and this is not specific to any one genre) is peoples cause for interest. The mentality bred by TV talent shows has killed the magic of music for fans and artists alike. Nobody appears interested in the music anymore, more about the story of the person behind that music. Millions of people watch X-Factor to see grown ups cry on TV in front of them - they care fuck all about the music and only have interest in artist for the duration of the tv programmes current series. Gone are the days when a band's reputation was enough to draw new fans and encourage people to go out looking for new music. Music has become too accessible in the wrong format. To a point all music needs to be underground to be appreciated as originally intended. Shows about fake promises and dreams backed up by sob stories and human interest sympathy tales are going to kill all music.

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The problem with music as a whole (and this is not specific to any one genre) is peoples cause for interest. The mentality bred by TV talent shows has killed the magic of music for fans and artists alike. Nobody appears interested in the music anymore' date=' more about the story of the person behind that music. Millions of people watch X-Factor to see grown ups cry on TV in front of them - they care fuck all about the music and only have interest in artist for the duration of the tv programmes current series. Gone are the days when a band's reputation was enough to draw new fans and encourage people to go out looking for new music. Music has become too accessible in the wrong format. To a point all music needs to be underground to be appreciated as originally intended. Shows about fake promises and dreams backed up by sob stories and human interest sympathy tales are going to kill all music.[/quote'] I think this analysis may be skewed by where you live. X-Factor gets a lot more attention in the UK than American Idol does in the United States, far as I understand. Furthermore, I'm not entirely sure it's all music. I doubt Xhosa stereo-throat singing (look it up if you don't believe me) is being damaged by this postmodern approach to music. There's a certain subset of music that is considered acceptable on X-Factor - as far as I can tell a band like Cephalic Carnage couldn't come up and say how they need the money for the younger brother of one band member afflicted with leukemia. However, I do think you make a good point about background. I wouldn't be surprised if groups like Galneryus and Betray The Emissary got popular solely because they come from interesting locations.
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Re: Do you think metal could ever become massively popular again?

The problem with music as a whole (and this is not specific to any one genre) is peoples cause for interest. The mentality bred by TV talent shows has killed the magic of music for fans and artists alike. Nobody appears interested in the music anymore' date=' more about the story of the person behind that music. Millions of people watch X-Factor to see grown ups cry on TV in front of them - they care fuck all about the music and only have interest in artist for the duration of the tv programmes current series. Gone are the days when a band's reputation was enough to draw new fans and encourage people to go out looking for new music. Music has become too accessible in the wrong format. To a point all music needs to be underground to be appreciated as originally intended. Shows about fake promises and dreams backed up by sob stories and human interest sympathy tales are going to kill all music.[/quote'] This is much more of a symptom than a root cause. People are more concerned about the stories because music is not that important to them. Everybody "loves" music, but most people only listen to it to pass the time in the car or have something to dance to. This is why easy music is popular, the point of music is to communicate emotion through sound, but reducing it down to just a memorable hook assures that more people can take something from it, and that something will be as shallow and unfulfilling as possible. Since music to most people is only vaguely important, it's no wonder why deep music is too much for them, and why the story of an artist would tug at their heartstrings more than their music. That says something about the artist's music if they can't communicate more powerfully through music than through speech, they're clearly putting nothing of themselves into the songs. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
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people need to listein to real music like metal 99% percent of shit out there is not real music at all it is easily programmed throught a computer like perfect example i want to wrestlemania 29 diddy ws there he just rapping through a tape with no drummer no bass player no guitar player not even a dj i wnent for the wrestling not to see him by the way all these music award shows all these pop singers have no band backing them you can see it it is gorlifed karoke singing in huge way metal bands dont have that they have soul and heart to get thier music through their lyrics drums guitars bass these main stream people need open their eyes see that

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This is much more of a symptom than a root cause. People are more concerned about the stories because music is not that important to them. Everybody "loves" music, but most people only listen to it to pass the time in the car or have something to dance to. This is why easy music is popular, the point of music is to communicate emotion through sound, but reducing it down to just a memorable hook assures that more people can take something from it, and that something will be as shallow and unfulfilling as possible. Since music to most people is only vaguely important, it's no wonder why deep music is too much for them, and why the story of an artist would tug at their heartstrings more than their music. That says something about the artist's music if they can't communicate more powerfully through music than through speech, they're clearly putting nothing of themselves into the songs. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
I think this is true and from reading it I thought of one obvious benefit to once popular genres fading - the real fans stay around. The genuine music lover who utilises music as an expression of their feelings and takes it with them wherever they can as an accompaniment will stick with their chosen genre regardless of its popularity. Also I agree with your point about the quality of an artists music governs their longevity or popularity.
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metal can't become mainstream because it requires instrumentation. In modern times the mainstream society are a consumer culture wanting instant gratification. Everything must be supplied quickly from food to news to music quality is simply not as important as quantity and so these short, catchy pop songs are produced en masse because it's easy whereas metal songs can't be produced en masse they need a great deal more work getting the right mix, the right sound production and so on that pop doesn't need

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metal can't become mainstream because it requires instrumentation. In modern times the mainstream society are a consumer culture wanting instant gratification. Everything must be supplied quickly from food to news to music quality is simply not as important as quantity and so these short' date=' catchy pop songs are produced en masse because it's easy whereas metal songs can't be produced en masse they need a great deal more work getting the right mix, the right sound production and so on that pop doesn't need[/quote'] So what about grind?
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Have you heard anything from Nasum' date=' Rotten Sound, Cephalic Carnage, or newer Napalm Death?[/quote'] I've heard a bit of Napalm Death and Cephalic Carnage, nothing from the other two. The other problem is that I simply just don't like the basic tenets of grind as I understand them. I don't care for the vocal style or the muddy sound overall - which is one of my main complaints with bands like Morbid Angel and Autopsy.
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Re: Do you think metal could ever become massively popular again?

I've heard a bit of Napalm Death and Cephalic Carnage' date=' nothing from the other two. The other problem is that I simply just don't like the basic tenets of grind as I understand them. I don't care for the vocal style or the muddy sound overall - which is one of my main complaints with bands like Morbid Angel and Autopsy.[/quote'] I know, but those guys have clear production and technical prowess. Neither of those things really matter though, it's all about the music. I get that you don't dig it, but you can't just write it off as talentless. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
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I know' date=' but those guys have clear production and technical prowess. Neither of those things really matter though, it's all about the music. I get that you don't dig it, but you can't just write it off as talentless.[/quote'] I was kidding. You're acting like I'm RtC or something... It's harder for me to hear the music with bad sound production, so while it is all about the music, I find it a lot harder to judge a band well when their subject matter is smudged. I can hear when a band is good even with bad sound production, but I still won't buy their music because I'd rather not crane my ear to hear each good riff. The stuff I own by Ch'aska is great but I don't like that it's so hard to hear properly.
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Metal has to be pretty popular still, just it's not as public as it once was. For example if it wasn't places like this forum wouldn't exist or there would only be a few members devoted to it. Because metal is frowned upon by most of the general population the music is only played in certain shops therefore restricting who hears it. Metal still has a huge marketing franchise we can be proud of. Doubt it will grow much unless we get a new version of Rob Zombie amd Manson though. It needs the uniqueness back imo.

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there is a difference between popular and mainstream though. Metal isn't mainstream but arguably it is more popular now then ever before. With festivals like Wacken lasting for days and a strong community (as evidenced by the abundance of forums and the like) one could argue that metal is immensely popular however it is still an outsider music. Metal isn't mainstream, in it's glory days (or dark days depending on who you ask) it was mainstream but that time has passed and it now remains a popular genre rarely seen by the so-called regular world.

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Part of that can be attributed to the distribution of Mp3s and Mp3 players. There is a much broader selection of music available to people now than there was even in the 90's, so it's much easier to track down very obscure metal bands and listen to their releases. With sites like SoundCloud it's also easier for a band to start making their stuff public and getting heard.

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