Jump to content

Male chauvinism in Metal


dilatedmind

Recommended Posts

Re: Male chauvinism in Metal

I really didn't want to open a can of worms. :( I was casually just trying to say that times are better. Of course there's still slavery, atrocities, tyrrany, and oppression in this world. There probably ALWAYS will be. I don't disagree with anything that's been said here about how horrible the world is, and the kind of oppression that exists. But it is not as bad as it used to be, that is the only point I'm making. A rough example: Speak out against the government today, worst case you'll probably be monitored heavily, perhaps put on some kind of "list" where you cannot purchase a firearm or fly out of the country, etc. Speak out against a government 600 years ago, you could expect to be drawn and quartered in brutal execution fashion after months of rotting away in a miserable prison, and your entire family raped, enslaved or slain. I don't think it's superficial progress. Humanity is not as jaw-droppingly shitty and cruel as it once was (with some exceptions of course, there are always sects of people who are still living in the stone ages with regards to being humane), I dont think i could be convinced otherwise. And in the same token I fully recognize the new, more subversive tyranny we live under. Tyranny and oppression is all terrible, but I don't think it's quite what it was.
I wasn't trying to start shit, I just know that part of the problem is that people think things are getting better. Despite our economy being in shambles, new healthcare regulations that are about to make it worse, the fact that we're still fighting two meaningless (unless you're an oil company) wars, and some of the most corrupt politicians that have ever been in office, people think that easing up on marijuana in some states is progress. While I won't argue that it is in and of itself, but with everything else moving in reverse, that doesn't mean progress overall. See, now that you explained your timeline, I can agree with you, because it seems like it wasn't until the 80's that things started to take a turn for the worst (Reagan and Bush years), so yes, things are better than they were a couple hundred years ago and even up to 50 years ago as far as civil rights and standards of living. Now though, most progress is either illusory or superficial, being the perfume sprayed to try to mask the odor of the growing elephant turd in the room. FA is right though, political discussions can bring out the worst in people. I would rather not have that happen, but we're all adults here now that NTNR is gone ;), it doesn't seem like anyone really got their feathers ruffled (though it often makes for the best discussions). I'll hang back on this one now and see what happens, if you guys want to continue, I'm game, but if you're worried it would break up the community here, we can hang it up. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

the fact that we're still fighting two meaningless (unless you're an oil company) wars' date='[/quote'] I actually got to hear a lecture last evening from Pat Edington, a former CIA military analyst and the man who made Gulf War syndrome public, and he would agree with this. However, he also exhorted us to remember that there's a great deal of C.Y.A. jockeying and as a result nobody likes hearing bad news. Technically we're just occupying Iraq at this point. Then again, that was true after 2003 as well so it's arguable what we could call the current reduced force. Also, Afghanistan has essentially no natural resources except opium, so there's no oil profit there. As for Libya, I don't doubt that people will try to set up shop as soon as possible - they do have some of the largest oil reserves in the world - but given the current political climate I don't think anyone without a medium-sized private army is going to be investing any capital there for a while. Sadly, I don't have anything that actually relates to the thread itself...
Link to comment
Share on other sites

But wouldn't you see a lot of our actions as geopolitical' date=' attempting to control energy flow elsewhere in the world in order to maintain economic leverage? Or is that too simplistic, or just wrong? You're the IP student... figured I'd ask.[/quote'] That would have been the case for most countries about 250 years ago before Adam Smith's The Wealth of Nations was published, but the US doesn't really do mercantilism, generally speaking. As for whether the wars are political - well, at this point it seems more about avoiding further embarrassment. Political change has to come for the populace of the country undergoing change, so the US' attempts to support Hamid Karzai are in my opinion massively misguided. It would be best if we got out as soon as possible in my opinion. Hopefully that will be next year like the President keeps saying. As for Iraq, I think we're mainly trying to figure out when would be the best time to get out and still be able to say that the intervention was for the better. As it stands now I suspect most Iraqis are pretty jealous of the relative attention the Kurds are getting and how much of a state the rest of the country is in. The other problem is that Iran will almost certainly be fiddling with affairs there the moment US forces leave. Hell, they're meddling now. The main thing, I think, is trying to bow out with grace. After that all that remains is to hope against hope that we won't go and bugger ourselves in Syria. ...I know this doesn't relate to the thread either.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Male chauvinism in Metal

I actually got to hear a lecture last evening from Pat Edington, a former CIA military analyst and the man who made Gulf War syndrome public, and he would agree with this. However, he also exhorted us to remember that there's a great deal of C.Y.A. jockeying and as a result nobody likes hearing bad news. Technically we're just occupying Iraq at this point. Then again, that was true after 2003 as well so it's arguable what we could call the current reduced force. Also, Afghanistan has essentially no natural resources except opium, so there's no oil profit there. As for Libya, I don't doubt that people will try to set up shop as soon as possible - they do have some of the largest oil reserves in the world - but given the current political climate I don't think anyone without a medium-sized private army is going to be investing any capital there for a while. Sadly, I don't have anything that actually relates to the thread itself...
Afghanistan having no oil should make a difference, but since most Americans can't even point out Afghanistan on a map, they're easy to convince. Speculators drove prices up by convincing people that the tensions in the area were limiting supply and making it more dangerous to harvest, despite Afghanistan having nothing to do with it. The result? We spent too much money on a "war" that was a joke (going to war with an entire nation to retaliate against a small group within and without that nation?), people in the oil business lines their pockets more than before, and everyone else paid the price. Iraq is a fairly low producing oil nation as well, but it has everything to do with perception, and when our general populace is easily convinced of anything because they are willfully uninformed, it accomplishes the same thing as invading a true oil giant like Saudi Arabia would have. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Re: Male chauvinism in Metal

One thing about afagastian. There is a lot illegal. Drugs growing there. Plus what about that cat 5 supertypoon. Hayiden that hit the philopees 195. Mph winds with 235 mph wind gust god damn that was bad
Yeah, poppies grow like crazy in the Hindu Kush, or so I'm told. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well except the "war" in Afghanistan was to gain control of their opiate fields so the US government could allow more of the drug to enter their borders keeping a broader amount of the populace addicted and ignorant. That's also why they would be allowing other drug use more readily (though still raking in money from fines and the like for anyone caught using, growing or manufacturing drugs). The more people who are happy so long as they can get a fix the better for the government oppressing their population.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Still not on topic...

Well except the "war" in Afghanistan was to gain control of their opiate fields so the US government could allow more of the drug to enter their borders keeping a broader amount of the populace addicted and ignorant. That's also why they would be allowing other drug use more readily (though still raking in money from fines and the like for anyone caught using' date=' growing or manufacturing drugs). The more people who are happy so long as they can get a fix the better for the government oppressing their population.[/quote'] Firstly, decriminalizing drugs and then punishing/fining the producers rather than the addicts is more like what Portugal did in 2001 - and that actually solved their drug problem. Portugal Drug Policy: Decriminalization Works - Business Insider Also, ISAF, an international body comprised of troops from 50 countries, (http://www.isaf.nato.int/images/stories/File/20131014_131001-ISAF-Placemat.pdf) is there and has been there since 2001 at the time of the invasion. It seems unlikely that all such nations are there for exactly the same reason. According to page 2 of the UNODC World Drug Report of 2013, the amount of heroin being produced by Afghanistan has been declining both in relative terms and in gross terms pretty steadily since 2007, with the exception of a jump in 2011 that still did not reach the peak in 2007. If the idea was to lower the price of heroin by allowing a greater flow then that technique has failed miserably, especially since the price of heroin in the United States has been steadily rising since 2003 (page 3) and the number of seizures for Europe as a whole has been dropping since 2008, and since 2005 for Eastern, Western and Central Europe, meaning that revenue from fines would decrease significantly. http://www.unodc.org/doc/wdr/Chp1_D.pdf A previous UN document reported that heroin use in the US has remained flat since 2000 - prior to the invasion (page 4 PDF). http://www.unodc.org/documents/wdr/WDR_2010/2.0_Drug_statistics_and_Trends.pdf Furthermore, the Taliban are known to use taxes on heroin to fund their operations - indeed, it ostensibly produces most of the money needed to pay for fuel, food and weapons, according to captured Talibs (page 27 PDF). It would make sense for them to encourage production if carrying out a long campaign, especially if they protect the heroin farmers (page 24 PDF). As the article states, most of the cultivation takes place where the insurgency is most active, and heroin production increases locally due to instability (page 9 of PDF). This would suggest that heroin production increases in the absence of ISAF troops rather than in their presence. http://www.usip.org/sites/default/files/resources/taliban_opium_1.pdf Even if heroin production were rising - and the UN data suggests that it is not - there still exists a compelling alternate explanation for increased heroin production other than US profiteering.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
So was I. Actually' date=' hippies usually spring for marijuana or LSD, they don't take heroin.[/quote'] Sadly, several of my hippied-out high school friends, as well as quite a few older people who were/are legitimate "hippies", serve as counterexamples. People did everything they could get their hands on, and they mostly still do.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sadly' date=' several of my hippied-out high school friends, as well as quite a few older people who were/are legitimate "hippies", serve as counterexamples. People did everything they could get their hands on, and they mostly still do.[/quote'] Honestly I was just taking a guess. I'm not really familiar with the heroin demographic even in an academic sense.
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

personally If a girl says "I like metal too" I'm thinking "HOLY FUCK FINALLY" and immediately engage them. I personally don't believe it has anything to do with "male chauvinism" I just think women tend to not be fans of louder more aggressive music. Am I saying all women? No. Honestly if a woman is into my hobbies that's great! However I'm not gonna lie when I say I've met some pretentious metal heads, and does that suck? yeah, but I love metal to much to care    

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Metal tends to be a male dominated genre, you're quite correct in that sense, Personally I feel it is because metal is a niche genre which doesn't appeal to many people. When your audience is rather small, and considering that in most countries there is a higher percentage of men then women (correct me if I'm wrong) it's only logical that men will outnumber women in the crowd.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it has more to do with socialization of sex roles. Metal is "strong", "hard", "loud", even hostile and violent, all which a woman is supposed to be the opposite of. As the years passed, more metal subgenres evolved, women liberated more and got in to metal as well..the same goes for rock and punk music.. i dont think female metalheads are that rare in Europe, sure men prevail but there isnt a huge gap anymore. But i do believe that there are less women in thrash/ heavy,  oldschool metal  than in symphonic, gothic, power, doom, even black..mostly because these genres are more modern. But rock/heavy metal sure was chauvinistic in the past,  females were accessories and sex objects  just as much as they are now in rap/pop. Still, some percieve metal girls more like groupies than actual metalheads.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Some yes, I would say they are the minority though, I think it's a sign of social progression that this attitude has changed with time. As society becomes more inclusive and women draw nearer to equality in all aspects of life I think we will see more female representation in metal crowds. I doubt it will ever reach 50/50 male to female metalheads but certainly we could approach 65/35.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 year later...

I feel like speed metal and its heavier versions came out of something that was going on in the eighties- music was becoming more and more commercial to the point that it was losing its meaning.  And glam metal was a big example of this, a real watering-down just to sell records.  I mean, just wonder if extreme metal hadnt happened, metal would have disappeared like a sad joke.  

In any case, it just so happened that glam metal was really feminine.  Guys dressing up like girls, tight pants, bright colors, whatever.  So, to differentiate themselves, extreme metal had to become more masculine.  

There are genres which have more and less male/female interest.  Metal is often a guy thing, Madonna and Boy George, NSYNC, those are girl things.  

Of course there are counter-examples, which is amazing.  I mean, just think how head over heels a girl would go if all you liked were chick flicks.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Join Metal Forum

    joinus-home.jpg

  • Our picks

    • Whichever tier of thrash metal you consigned Sacred Reich back in the 80's/90's they still had their moments.  "Ignorance" & "Surf Nicaragura" did a great job of establishing the band, whereas "The American Way" just got a little to comfortable and accessible (the title track grates nowadays) for my ears.  A couple more records better left forgotten about and then nothing for twenty three years.  2019 alone has now seen three releases from Phil Rind and co.  A live EP, a split EP with Iron Reagan and now a full length.

      Notable addition to the ranks for the current throng of releases is former Machine Head sticksman, Dave McClean.  Love or hate Machine Head, McClean is a more than capable drummer and his presence here is felt from the off with the opening and title track kicking things off with some real gusto.  'Divide & Conquer' and 'Salvation' muddle along nicely, never quite reaching any quality that would make my balls tingle but comfortable enough.  The looming build to 'Manifest Reality' delivers a real punch when the song starts proper.  Frenzied riffs and drums with shots of lead work to hold the interest.


      There's a problem already though (I know, I am such a fucking mood hoover).  I don't like Phil's vocals.  I never had if I am being honest.  The aggression to them seems a little forced even when they are at their best on tracks like 'Manifest Reality'.  When he tries to sing it just feels weak though ('Salvation') and tracks lose real punch.  Give him a riffy number such as 'Killing Machine' and he is fine with the Reich engine (probably a poor choice of phrase) up in sixth gear.  For every thrashy riff there's a fair share of rock edged, local bar act rhythm aplenty too.

      Let's not poo-poo proceedings though, because overall I actually enjoy "Awakening".  It is stacked full of catchy riffs that are sticky on the old ears.  Whilst not as raw as perhaps the - brilliant - artwork suggests with its black and white, tattoo flash sheet style design it is enjoyable enough.  Yes, 'Death Valley' & 'Something to Believe' have no place here, saved only by Arnett and Radziwill's lead work but 'Revolution' is a fucking 80's thrash heyday throwback to the extent that if you turn the TV on during it you might catch a new episode of Cheers!

      3/5
      • Reputation Points

      • 10 replies
    • I
      • Reputation Points

      • 2 replies
    • https://www.metalforum.com/blogs/entry/52-vltimas-something-wicked-marches-in/
      • Reputation Points

      • 3 replies

    • https://www.metalforum.com/blogs/entry/48-candlemass-the-door-to-doom/
      • Reputation Points

      • 2 replies
    • Full length number 19 from overkill certainly makes a splash in the energy stakes, I mean there's some modern thrash bands that are a good two decades younger than Overkill who can only hope to achieve the levels of spunk that New Jersey's finest produce here.  That in itself is an achievement, for a band of Overkill's stature and reputation to be able to still sound relevant four decades into their career is no mean feat.  Even in the albums weaker moments it never gets redundant and the energy levels remain high.  There's a real sense of a band in a state of some renewed vigour, helped in no small part by the addition of Jason Bittner on drums.  The former Flotsam & Jetsam skinsman is nothing short of superb throughout "The Wings of War" and seems to have squeezed a little extra out of the rest of his peers.

      The album kicks of with a great build to opening track "Last Man Standing" and for the first 4 tracks of the album the Overkill crew stomp, bash and groove their way to a solid level of consistency.  The lead work is of particular note and Blitz sounds as sneery and scathing as ever.  The album is well produced and mixed too with all parts of the thrash machine audible as the five piece hammer away at your skull with the usual blend of chugging riffs and infectious anthems.  


      There are weak moments as mentioned but they are more a victim of how good the strong tracks are.  In it's own right "Distortion" is a solid enough - if not slightly varied a journey from the last offering - but it just doesn't stand up well against a "Bat Shit Crazy" or a "Head of a Pin".  As the album draws to a close you get the increasing impression that the last few tracks are rescued really by some great solos and stomping skin work which is a shame because trimming of a couple of tracks may have made this less obvious. 

      4/5
      • Reputation Points

      • 4 replies
×
×
  • Create New...