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Re: spirituality

the phrase "metaphysical" irks me. It's little more then a buzzword thrown around to describe something which we don't understand. The term paranormal is' date=' to me, more preferable. At least there we know the discussion surrounds something outside the bounds of the everyday.[/quote'] Metaphysics deals with trying to define the nature of reality, whereas the study of the paranormal is based around claimed and unproven happenings. They are different from one another, the former being philosophical/spiritual dealing in trying to understand existence, the latter deals in interpreting what people believe that they have experienced that they can't explain with science. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
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Hmm, only two posts in and I'm already in the deep and meaningful section :-P Being a n00b, feel free to disregard my opinions. Metal as a musical genre has always pushed the envelope and tackled topics we are not always comfortable with expressing, emotions a lot of people are uncomfortable with (i.e. anger and aggression). Patriarchal, organised religion vs. secularity has been a sore point in our culture for quite some time now. It affects many people on varying levels. Religion has both sheltered and destroyed lives, brought people together and torn them apart. My family is an example of one that was torn apart by religion...I still have deep resentment towards certain Christian groups. Lyricists tackling the issue of religion do so from a subjective viewpoint, and many feel that religion is a load of BS...so yeah if a band want to be anti-religious that's their choice and I can personally relate to them. For a religious person this is an uncomfortable thing, but writing happy fluffy peace lyrics is not in the line of the majority of metal songwriters. It's not about keeping the peace, it's about tackling real issues. The impact of religion on a society is a big and real issue.

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Actually in my opinion, the whole anti-religion or anti-christ thing is about stick it to the system and the manipulation this guided institutional called religion or christianity or whatever cause. I mean music is about expressing ourselves, our beliefs, our thoughts and feelings. It is about freedom and i believe metal is very misunderstood and most people can't realise the deep and the quality of these songs. It's not about being bad or evil or these bullshits we do for fun. Its about waken people, sensitize their desire to change things and make this world A better place. Every good metal song have deep background and meaning and it needs spending plenty of hours to deeply understand what you listen to.

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As I said so far as expressing oneself the anti-religious (or more narrowly anti-Christian) sentiment is something I completely understand and so long as it does not actively seek to promote violence I have no problem with such sentiment. The issue however is that there are bands which do promote violence against groups of people. These are not limited to just metal bands either there are punk bands, grunge bands and so on which also encourage such behaviour.

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  • 1 month later...
As I said so far as expressing oneself the anti-religious (or more narrowly anti-Christian) sentiment is something I completely understand and so long as it does not actively seek to promote violence I have no problem with such sentiment. The issue however is that there are bands which do promote violence against groups of people. These are not limited to just metal bands either there are punk bands' date=' grunge bands and so on which also encourage such behaviour.[/quote'] So you can listen to music about violence all day But you can't stand behind it? Metal is violent and so should metalheads be. And yes, anti-Christian attitude is necessary. Christianity is as far from metal as you can get. You know what they say, rock n roll is the devil's music.
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I agree with what you asking, is anti-religion really necessary? When was the last time you heard a band sing about anti-atheism? I know I haven't. I want to know why anti-religious people talk about it in their music, when religious people don't discus anti-anti-religion. This is just something to think about. Nonetheless, I still enjoy music regardless of lyrical content. I really enjoyed To Hell With God from Deicide, I just wish they would wouldn't bash Christianity. Another thing that makes me wonder, is why Satanist and atheist bash something they don't even believe in, that seems a little unproductive to me. By bashing religion, you're acknowledging its existence and bringing attention to it.

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So you can listen to music about violence all day But you can't stand behind it? Metal is violent and so should metalheads be. And yes, anti-Christian attitude is necessary. Christianity is as far from metal as you can get. You know what they say, rock n roll is the devil's music.
So you're the one who gets to tell everyone what "metalheads should be"? No, I don't think so. You sound like you've been reading too much Varg Vikernes. A lot of metal is angry music. Anger is natural. Violence is stupid. Saying we "should be" violent is like saying we should be slaves to our emotions or the music we listen to. I can't think of much more childish. Protesting religion is fine - I do it too - but embracing the devil as a symbol of protest against christianity is a waste of time; you're still playing their game. Think outside the box.
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I agree with what you asking' date=' is anti-religion really necessary? When was the last time you heard a band sing about anti-atheism? I know I haven't. I want to know why anti-religious people talk about it in their music, when religious people don't discus anti-anti-religion. This is just something to think about.[/quote'] What a load of bull. Monotheistic religions thrive on telling people that their way is the only way, and that people who don't follow their way will be punished. I'm routinely accused of moral or intellectual shortcomings simply for being an atheist. I have friends who are convinced that I'm going to "hell", simply for keeping an open mind and using my best judgement. Religious people shove this stuff in my face all the time. "Believers" oppose people who disagree with them by default. All of them? No... but it happens a lot. I, and most of the people I know who oppose religion, do so because we don't want someone else's subjective, magical beliefs forced on us in our daily lives or in the education of our children. If you think religious people aren't trying to gain political power to push an agenda, you have your head in the sand.
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So you're the one who gets to tell everyone what "metalheads should be"? No' date=' I don't think so. You sound like you've been reading too much Varg Vikernes. A lot of metal is angry music. Anger is natural. Violence is stupid. Saying we "should be" violent is like saying we should be slaves to our emotions or the music we listen to. I can't think of much more childish. Protesting religion is fine - I do it too - but embracing the devil as a symbol of protest against christianity is a waste of time; you're still playing their game. Think outside the box.[/quote'] Thinking outside the box is Exactly what I do. Far beyond THRASHH TILL DEATH WACKEN PARRTTTTYY METAL attitude. Meaning nothing with metal. Watering metal down to something as disgusting as "entertainment". I haven't Been reading to much Varg. He is just a moron. Well, i'd rather confess I'm a sucker for and slave to emotions. That is why i listen to metal instead of pop. It is emotional music. I'm not protesting against religion, religion is ok. I find spiritual persons for more interesting than atheists. I don't think it a Waste of time. The mystery of the soul, the devil and metal is what keeps me living.
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So the idea that people can listen to metal for reasons other then your own is disgusting to you Horror? At its core Metal has always been about entertainment as has the entire music industry. Going all the way back to Sabbath and their darker style which ENTERTAINED fans of the music whilst terrifying everyone else. I listen to metal because I love the music but I'm also entertained by it. Seeing bands live is fun, an enjoyable and entertaining evening, I wasn't aware that wasn't an acceptable opinion. So far as violence is concerned yes metal does have some violent lyrics. If you're disconnected enough to think that means certain bands want you to be violent in your daily life that's your issue. I see it as bands who want people to work out their aggression in a healthy manner. Headbanging and moshing is a release of anger for me in the same way that being swept up by the atmosphere of funeral doom is a healthy release which helps me cope with my clinical depression. There is no place in music or beyond it for those who would actively incite violence against their fellow man so far as I am concerned.

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As a somewhat religious person (depends on your definition of religious), I'm all for personal expression of any kind and I fully welcome "opposing" opinions (I see this particular subject as two sides of the same coin, hence the quotes). However, I'm with RO concerning the aspect of violence. Imagery is one thing, action is another entirely. Sure, the line is hard to see sometimes, but I believe it's important to define exactly what crosses the line. Also, when you talk about bands who use lyrics for shock value, it's easy to forget that the lyrics they write reflect real-world situations. Some bands that pull the shock value card actually believe the shit they are saying. There is an unfortunate amount of church-burning lunatics in the scene (just like misogynists in the slam/gore scene, and racists in the NS black metal scene). I hate to say that it comes with the territory, but it's an unfortunate truth IMO. This debate often devolves into the argumentative equivalent of animals throwing shit at each other, so I'm glad we can discuss it with some dignity!

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What a load of bull. Monotheistic religions thrive on telling people that their way is the only way, and that people who don't follow their way will be punished. ... Why do you put satanists and atheists in the same category? We're not the same at all;
Yes, I know some religious people may push it onto others, but I don't ever see it in music, remember that's what we're talking about here. I don't hear songs condemning non-believers, that's outside of music. And why do you say I put Atheist and Satanists in the same category? To answer you, I don't- that's why I listed them separately, and atheism is the denial of any deity, which is part of many branches of Satanism. So many Satanists are Atheistic Satanists, but not all Atheists are Satanists, hence why they are listed separately- to avoid putting them in the same category.
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But you talk about them in the same fashion. Surely you can understand why we would think you're lumping them together. As for christian bands which condemn atheists just because you haven't heard them doesn't mean they aren't out there. I've heard it done chiefly in death metal bands and black metal bands.

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Hey. Murp what I don't understand. Is every time a metal band comes. In to. A town. These regloius. Groups come out of the wood work they condemn people. You going to hell I read. In where a festival in one town as a priest. Bless all the seats. For the show. I don't get these people. I can see why some bands go down that road.

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Different people will behave in different ways when confronted with the same set of circumstances. These people aren't getting their message across in an effective manner and make themselves look foolish but that's their choice to make. It doesn't bother me what people like that do in fact I find it funny.

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Wish I could say I found it funny, but I don't. I feel sad for people whose belief structure has taken over every facet of their lives, but I can't help but be angry when they get in my face about it. It happens frequently to me IRL. The really shitty thing is that I don't go around proclaiming my lack of faith; for all these people know, I could believe exactly as they do and just be trying to save them a pamphlet by saying "no thanks". I'm generally polite about it, which is how I get drawn into further conversations sometimes, although most of the time they assume (correctly) that I'm not interested, and either leave me alone (which is great) or start yelling at me (which isn't). This is turning into another "pushing religion on others" conversation, isn't it... For the record, while I'm a staunch atheist, I listen to quite a bit of religious music, mostly medieval liturgical music, but also folk music from various countries, African blues, and some American bluegrass and country. I don't have a problem with reverence, but I can't abide proselytizing. It's intrusive and disrespectful. I don't have as hard a time listening to satanic music because A) I haven't been insulted and threatened by satanists for not sharing their beliefs and B) I just can't take that shit seriously. On the other hand, I've dealt with too many pushy christians (and some jews and muslims) throughout my life to be able to laugh them off. The religious attitude I have the most respect for is exemplified by two of the Sufi poets, Rumi and Hafiz, who did their best to describe their own personal mysticism and to be as inclusive as possible with their message, rather than talking about the bad things that would happen to people who disagreed with them. All the christian metal (and christian and muslim rap) that I've heard is way too preachy and exclusionary. I don't want to listen to that message. I don't care how good the music is.

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In small doses I can take music advocating a religious stance if the musicianship is of a high quality. As it happens many bands expounding such a viewpoint are highly deficient in these areas and as such I have no time for their music. I agree, the idea of Satanism expressed by many of its practitioners through music are by and large more interesting. Of course since Satanism is, in reality, ethical egoism I find it hilarious how Satanists think they've discovered this great new way to live.

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That wasn't their point though. They weren't rebelling against Christianity in order to return to their old ways but rather because they were acting "according to the divine will of almighty Satan". There's no need for such extreme actions when one can make their point more effectively with pointed words.

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The church-burnings are, let's face it, childish. They will change nothing, or they can even strengthen the believe in christians that their faith is true - because it is atacked by some evil and aggressive "satanists" (yeah, right...) so the bible was true! Bible is the only way to live well your life! And shit like that... And to answer if this anti-religious texts are necessary I can say that: as many bands have proven, it is not. There are thousands of bands that has no interest in sharing any religious or anti-religious messages. Yet if somebody wants to say that abrahamic religions are bullshit - I have nothing to it simply because I don't like them either.

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Re: Is the whole "Anti Religion" really necessary?

That wasn't their point though. They weren't rebelling against Christianity in order to return to their old ways but rather because they were acting "according to the divine will of almighty Satan". There's no need for such extreme actions when one can make their point more effectively with pointed words.
Most of the churches they burned down were built by Pagans, so they didn't accomplish much. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2
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