Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

Would you call In A Gadda Da Vida metal? 'cause that's where the term was first used as a description of the music. I'm not saying The Who are metal by todays definition, I'm just saying the bass and drum lines are metalish... protometal, stuff that the first metal bands (and later ones) took up and expanded upon.

Actually, that album is from 1968, and Steppenwolf's Born To Be Wild had the first usage of the term with the lyric "heavy metal thunder", which was in the song and not just from some reviewer. I don't believe in historical revisionism, which many people practice by trying to say that Deep Purple aren't heavy metal just because today's metal bands don't sound like them (the same happens frequently when people claim that Venom aren't black metal or Possessed aren't death metal), but The Who is a bit of a stretch. I won't deny their influence, but they actually feel a bit more like proto-punk than proto-metal.

[gus666]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands The whole 'heavy metal' debate is one which is similar to arguing about 'how long is a piece of string'. What constitutes 'metal' nowadays has changed drastically compared to the '70s and early '80s. The big names which always spark debate are Motorhead and AC/DC. But in the '70s they were metal: end of debate. Nowadays the very same journos and fans who called them metal back then refer to them as rock 'n' roll. Keeping this in mind, and in keeping with the spirit of the OP, here's my top 10: 1-AC/DC 2-Blue Oyster Cult 3-Thin Lizzy 4-Motorhead 5-Twisted Sister 6-Judas Priest 7-Saxon 8-UFO 9-Ozzy 10-Rose Tattoo Others never referred to as metal, ever, but fall in to the 'fairly heavy rock' bracket and whom I love: Rory Gallagher The Who

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands There's no question about how people's perceptions have changed, and the era that these bands are being compared to should have no bearing on whether or not they are considered heavy metal. However, just because a band was referred to as metal in their day doesn't mean that they were even then, and I think AC/DC would qualify as one of those bands. Their music is pretty much the most base definition of hard rock out there, no frills, no bullshit, and not really anything to do with metal either. Just like with The Who, I won't say that they weren't influential or that they didn't effect heavy metal, but I don't think they're close enough to qualify. Another example of this would be Van Halen. Many people called them heavy metal in the late 70's and early 80's, and despite how much Eddie influenced heavy metal lead guitar (reaching so far as even death metal lead guitar, as Trey Azagthoth's style is clearly derived from Eddie's), there's really nothing to elevate them from being another hard rock band. I think one of the problems that people have is that many of the prototypical heavy metal bands were still on the border of heavy metal and hard rock, often having albums that bounced between both sounds, though I still feel that they should be qualified as heavy metal even though they weren't for every single song. This goes for Black Sabbath too, who seems to get a free pass from many because of their thick guitar tone, despite that half of their first album was comprised of blues covers. Most of the bands you listed had at least a couple of heavy metal tunes, which qualifies them in my book, but AC/DC (and by extension, Rose Tattoo) have no songs that I can think of that strike me as being anything other than hard rock.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

There's no question about how people's perceptions have changed, and the era that these bands are being compared to should have no bearing on whether or not they are considered heavy metal. However, just because a band was referred to as metal in their day doesn't mean that they were even then, and I think AC/DC would qualify as one of those bands. Their music is pretty much the most base definition of hard rock out there, no frills, no bullshit, and not really anything to do with metal either. Just like with The Who, I won't say that they weren't influential or that they didn't effect heavy metal, but I don't think they're close enough to qualify. Another example of this would be Van Halen. Many people called them heavy metal in the late 70's and early 80's, and despite how much Eddie influenced heavy metal lead guitar (reaching so far as even death metal lead guitar, as Trey Azagthoth's style is clearly derived from Eddie's), there's really nothing to elevate them from being another hard rock band. I think one of the problems that people have is that many of the prototypical heavy metal bands were still on the border of heavy metal and hard rock, often having albums that bounced between both sounds, though I still feel that they should be qualified as heavy metal even though they weren't for every single song. This goes for Black Sabbath too, who seems to get a free pass from many because of their thick guitar tone, despite that half of their first album was comprised of blues covers. Most of the bands you listed had at least a couple of heavy metal tunes, which qualifies them in my book, but AC/DC (and by extension, Rose Tattoo) have no songs that I can think of that strike me as being anything other than hard rock.

Are thin lizzy and UFO metal then? I think they're hard rock.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands Thin Lizzy definitely is, I haven't heard enough UFO to know for sure, but they do have connections to Scorpions who are heavy metal, so I'm assuming that they are at least in some places. Twisted Sister has been a glam rock band for most of their career, but they do have at least two songs that could count as heavy metal (Under the Blade and Burn In Hell), so as much as I would like to, I can't write them off completely.

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

Thin Lizzy definitely is' date=' I haven't heard enough UFO to know for sure, but they do have connections to Scorpions who are heavy metal, so I'm assuming that they are at least in some places. Twisted Sister has been a glam rock band for most of their career, but they do have at least two songs that could count as heavy metal (Under the Blade and Burn In Hell), so as much as I would like to, I can't write them off completely.[/quote'] Probably one of the first metal bands i heard when i was 4 was thin lizzy, on toy story 2 trailer after i watched toynstory 1 on video, I was jumping about on my bed to it, ahhh happy days, never knew that was my true genre of music til i was 12, my dad played dream theater 'A rite of passage' in the car, and I was rocking out to it. And that was how i got into metal.

[gus666]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

Thin Lizzy definitely is' date=' I haven't heard enough UFO to know for sure, but they do have connections to Scorpions who are heavy metal, so I'm assuming that they are at least in some places. Twisted Sister has been a glam rock band for most of their career, but they do have at least two songs that could count as heavy metal (Under the Blade and Burn In Hell), so as much as I would like to, I can't write them off completely.[/quote'] Interesting thoughts, BlutAus, but TS being a glam band has more to do with their image surely? They were influenced by Slade for one, but most of all Alice Cooper, in music and the whole costume thing. I personally come from the age where metal meant the same thing as hard rock-in fact the term was probably pinched from the Steppenwolf classic Born To Be Wild, and Steppenwolf wouldn't ever be classed as metal, but were credited for being at the start of the whole 'heavy' music thing. And I think that's where the debate comes from. The music was 'heavy' but maybe not 'metal'. Personally speaking, AC/DC UFO and those other 'classic rock' bands will always be metal to my mind, but what you and I are classing as metal are two different things. It was a really interesting time, the '70s- the whole 'heavy' scene was very diverse. My mates would all like (and you'd see guys at gigs with patches on their jackets) bands from Genesis (proggy version), Yes, the Stones & Who, AC/DC, BOC, Lizzy Status Quo, Pink Floyd, Led Zepplin, Alice Cooper, Rush, Van Halen, Sabbs, Priest, The Eagles (never understood that one myself!!), Lynyrd Skynyrd. Bands or artists like Elton John, Dire Straits, Roxy Music, The Doors were almost without exception NOT in the 'scene' and generally ridiculed the same as the pop groups in the charts. Even though some of these artists could be described as rock bands, they didn't have that 'heavy' or complex/prog thing going on. Of course most of those bands aren't metal in the truest sense, but they'll always be 'heavy' to me in the very loosest terms.

[gus666]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

Lizzy were a class act. I always thought it was a toss of a coin between Phil and Hendrix as to who had the ultimate 'rock star' image. The two of them were just so cool!!! Only criticism of Lizzy was the stale setlist they would constantly tour with. Lynott said after they'd split that he played all those songs because he thought that the fans wanted to hear them, but most fans prefferred the songs that rarely made the setlist. Check out stuff like Soldier of Fortune, Opium Trail, Fools Gold, Ballad of a Hard Man, Wild One, Toughest Street In Town, It's Getting Dangerous, The Sun Goes Down, Holy War, This Is The One. I did get fed up hearing Still In love With You, Baby Drives Me Crazy, Suiced et all.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

I enjoy stuff from many of the bands that you listed, but again I wouldn't call all of them heavy metal. In the nascent stages of any sound/genre, they are still relatively close sonically to the forms of music that they emerged from, so some overlapping is definitely understandable, and I'm not super critical about stuff that comes close. What I do get annoyed by is when then emergent sounds are lumped together by future generations as still being part of the same movement that they broke away from, despite moving past that sound. Not every influential band counts as part of what it influenced (i.e., Slayer is not a death metal band), but it's just as inaccurate to think of bands that did push the envelope forward as being part of what they were breaking away from, whether intentionally or unintentionally. Nobody is perfect and you have to draw a line in the sand somewhere, so either way some things may get added or left out that shouldn't be, but being able to keep that in mind is the biggest challenge. For the longest time I believed that Black Sabbath were the first metal band and the only metal band from their time, completely groundbreaking with no peers whatsoever, end of story, as this is what my internet research had led me to believe. It wasn't until a few years ago that my eyes were opened to there being other sounds that were metal from the same time period that were just as influential to future metal bands, I couldn't have been more incorrect, and I'm annoyed at the mainstream metal media for having fed me lies of that nature.

[gus666]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands BlutAus, again very interesting point. I do feel that finding the first ever metal band is a bit like finding God-you think you've found something real, but it'll soon turn out to be false. Sabbath definitely had a unique sound for the time, and it is difficult to find another band at that time who fit the pure 'metal' tag that you talk of. But the whole 'what is heavy metal' debate is one which doesn't have a straight answer. Sabbath themselves (Ozzy particularly) always said they were a rock n roll band, as did Priest and, well, basically all bands at that time. Not many have openly embraced the term over the years (though some individuals, notably Halford, have recently). Another very important band who influenced most of the 'heavy' scene were, of course, MC5. Another indicator that the whole 'heavy' or 'metal' genre has been a vastly complicated evolution, rather than the revolution that some would have you believe. Keep your thoughts coming-I'm really enjoying this discussion.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands Sabbath definitely put the darkness into metal, but bands like Deep Purple, Thin Lizzy, Budgie, Led Zeppelin, etc... put the melody and speed into it. Other bands have added other elements, and Sabbath may be the best starting point if you wanted to just focus on just one band, but the point is that they weren't alone so you can't just focus on them. Terminology is what it is, genres really just exist to give people a general idea of what they may be hearing when they listen to a new band, and they exist because there are so many different sounds out there. Hard rock and old-school heavy metal are related genres, fans of one usually enjoy the other, as opposed to genres like electronic and bluegrass which couldn't be further apart, and it's that proximity of hard rock and heavy metal that makes the line blurry. I'm enjoying discussing these influential bands as well, and would like to talk more about it. MC5 are more along the lines of The Who for me, loud, noisy rock that was influential on metal (and maybe more so on punk), but still belong in the rock category. Maybe it would be a good idea to post some youtube links to some proto-metal and influential hard rock bands here, as it seems like most people here are open to the idea of older non-Sabbath bands having their place in the metal world.

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands Here's one of my favorite proto-metal tracks: at7JvfvMB5c Does that riff remind anyone of Sympton of the Universe?

[gus666]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands That's a great track, Blut. Can you maybe clarify what you mean by proto-metal? There's also a little-quoted band from Birmingham (same as Sabbath) called Uriah Heep. Listen to this from 1970: (sorry, don't know how to do the Youtube picture thingy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t28kudqwENs

[RelentlessOblivion]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands by proto-metal I think he means it has elements of early metal in it, much like Venom were proto-black metal apparently Blue Cheyer were proto-metal but I hate them

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

by proto-metal I think he means it has elements of early metal in it, much like Venom were proto-black metal apparently Blue Cheyer were proto-metal but I hate them

That's the commonly accepted phrase so that's the one I use for bands like this, though I do consider proto-metal bands to not just influential, but actual metal bands, much like I consider Venom to be black metal.

That's a great track, Blut. Can you maybe clarify what you mean by proto-metal? There's also a little-quoted band from Birmingham (same as Sabbath) called Uriah Heep. Listen to this from 1970: (sorry, don't know how to do the Youtube picture thingy) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t28kudqwENs

Yes, Uriah Heep would also into this category. I've been meaning to look into them more, as King Diamond mentions this band as one of his biggest influences vocally and musically.

[gus666]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

That's the commonly accepted phrase so that's the one I use for bands like this, though I do consider proto-metal bands to not just influential, but actual metal bands, much like I consider Venom to be black metal. Yes, Uriah Heep would also into this category. I've been meaning to look into them more, as King Diamond mentions this band as one of his biggest influences vocally and musically.

Thanks for clearing that up, gents! Easy Livin' by Uriah Heep is a fantastic place to start, by the way (Incidentally, the only time I saw them was at Ayr Pavilion in 1981 and they were supported by Samson, with Bruce Dickinson on vocals). I think Hendrix is a definite. For that guitar sound and the 'axe hero' style of playing and live show if nothing else; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7SZKoxgJwQ

[BlutAusNerd]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands I feel about Hendrix the same way I do about Eddie Van Halen, both were very influential to the way lead guitar was played in heavy metal, though neither of them really played metal music. The only difference is that I can still enjoy Hendrix's music sometimes, but Van Halen has always sounded like crap to me.

[gus666]

Re: Metal Forum Top 10 Heavy/Traditional Metal Bands

I feel about Hendrix the same way I do about Eddie Van Halen' date=' both were very influential to the way lead guitar was played in heavy metal, though neither of them really played metal music. The only difference is that I can still enjoy Hendrix's music sometimes, but [b']Van Halen has always sounded like crap to me.

Ditto, mate.

[Symbiontas]

My top ten 10 would be (not in order): Judas Priest Iron Maiden Accept Motorhead Black Sabbath Warlock Dio Dream Evil Holy Grail White Whizzard. The last 3 are newer bands but they make old good heavy metal.

[BlutAusNerd]

My top ten 10 would be (not in order): Holy Grail White Whizzard.

Sorry, but I can't stand Holy Fail, they're totally generic retro metal garbage from posers weened off of Guitar Hero. I saw them open for Exodus, and the best song that they played was a cover of Fast As a Shark, which they butchered. The dude kissing his muscles between playing generic leads and solos didn't help their case much, and if they formed after leaving White Wizzard, I can't imagine that I would have anything good to say about them either.

[RelentlessOblivion]

holy fail is right, it's like they set out to be deliberately bland

[chicagometalhead]

One of my favorites in recent years is Zuul. Great band from Illinois if you like early Maiden. As for the top bands of this genre, let's be honest it's pretty much going to be all bands from the 80s/late 70s. Another high quality traditional band is Omen.

[ReturntoCarthage]

^Yeah, they're great. I have both of their albums, their first album wasn't as good as their newest though.

[Scullicon]

Im not really sure what to count as either Heavy or Traditional Metal, As some of you already discussed with me Im not a big fan of labeling everything, or discuss what belongs where. But the 10(11) bands Ive spent most time listening to which might go under this would be: Mercyful Fate / King Diamond Judas Priest In Solitude Dio Accept Saxon Motörhead Running Wild RAM W.A.S.P

[BlutAusNerd]

Im not really sure what to count as either Heavy or Traditional Metal, As some of you already discussed with me Im not a big fan of labeling everything, or discuss what belongs where. But the 10(11) bands Ive spent most time listening to which might go under this would be: Mercyful Fate / King Diamond Judas Priest In Solitude Dio Accept Saxon Motörhead Running Wild RAM W.A.S.P

Pretty standard, I can't really argue with any of them, except maybe W.A.S.P., I can't stand those guys. You should give a listen to Jag Panzer's first album Ample Destruction, based on your taste I'd bet that they would make it into your top 10, hopefully pushing W.A.S.P. out of the way...