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Bullet For My Valentine

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine You probably wont find much support for bands like these here or any actual metal forum, for one given the 'core' elements and secondly and possibly the most infuriating factor, is the pop elements infused with the 'core' elements. Perhaps, the most maddening factor with bands such as BMFV and FFDP is the fact they dumb down heavy music to make it palatable for pop fans, and this is why even with the so-called "core" elements is why I hate this band so much.

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine

You probably wont find much support for bands like these here or any actual metal forum' date=' for one given the 'core' elements and secondly and possibly the most infuriating factor, is the pop elements infused with the 'core' elements. Perhaps, the most maddening factor with bands such as BMFV and FFDP is the fact they dumb down heavy music to make it palatable for pop fans, and this is why even with the so-called "core" elements is why I hate this band so much.[/quote']

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine if that would actually happen it would be a good thing, but the musical zombies that call themselves pop fans would only be interested in bands that sound "mainstream" such as bfmv, ffdp, avenged sevenfold, trivium and probably sell-out era Metallica, plus anything else that sounds like aforementioned "bands" and would therefore never be metalheads

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine Wouldn't classify bfmv as metal either... wow... I don't know where the term "______core" came from anyway. All of these subgenres get tiresome. Music is music all music relates to all music because it's always in a state of evolution and every artist brings to it a nuance of whatever influences the artist is made up of. Everyone in TSoG has jazz backgrounds... So we guess we're going to call our selves "Jazzcore"... HAha TSoG

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine

if that would actually happen it would be a good thing' date=' but the musical zombies that call themselves pop fans would only be interested in bands that sound "mainstream" such as bfmv, ffdp, avenged sevenfold, trivium and probably sell-out era Metallica, plus anything else that sounds like aforementioned "bands" and would therefore never be metalheads[/quote'] And they are. This is VERY true. People hear about the Big Four, Iron Maiden and Black Sabbath, and assume that's all there is to metal. They never develop the curiosity to look around for other stuff. I actually had a guy whine at me on memecenter for making a short list of four bands I considered metal because I failed to include Metallica. Who did I include? Sabaton, Excalion, Seventh Wonder and Hieronymus Bosch. And for those who listen to the newer emo-ish bands, I suspect it is naught more than an accessory. They're not really metalheads, they just want to pretend that they have variety in their musical tastes. Even then, when they say they 'like the screamy music', just introduce them to some avant-garde bands and they'll be booking it off in the other direction with bleeding ears.

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine BFMV and Trivium not metal? What! :evil: Oooh, I know that I'm going to be in trouble for this, I really am, but I really hate it when people get like this about bands. I mean, O.K. Avenged Sevenfold are a bit soft (I seem to have all their albums but somehow I never listen to them) and aren't metal but BFMV are heavy and as for Trivium not being metal - well, I mean come on, if they are not metal then I just wonder what is? Trivium, grunt and growl, Trivium go really chaotic on the heavy chords with masses of distortion, Trivium sing about death and violence and not relationships, Trivium have terrific solos, perrrlease! It just really creams my corn when people have to get all uppety about what is and is not metal, can't we just all get along without banging on about pop wetties blah blah? I mean really, in what way is a band like Disturbed more of a deviance from mainstream metal than any folk/symponic band? I can't help but think that some people just don't like when a band sells more than three albums. BFMV and Trivium rock and are metal, or at the very least Trivium is - even the picky Encyclopedia Metallum allows Trivium!!! And before anybody annoyed by my post tries to call me a pop wetty with pathetically commercial tastes, I would just like to say that I hate almost all pop, I think that current chart music is the (bar hip-hop) the worst form of music ever, ever, invented and that I love the virtually unheard album Darker Later (Humanfly) and my favourite band is the fairly obscure Leaves' Eyes, the German/Norwegian Symphonic/Folk Metal band! O.K. rant over. Peace.

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine Actually, no one's saying Trivium isn't metal. murph just doesn't like them; he's saying they're mainstream metal and he's right in some sense. Erm...as for success...there are several Slayer and Megadeth fans here. Not to mention all the people who like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest. Even some newish bands like Amon Amarth and Arch Enemy still command huge crowds, but I don't think anyone will dispute their metal-ness even if they don't really care for them. It sounds like you're confusing some of the people here with hipsters. :| The thing is that there was a time when metal had a decent time in the sun, and several metal bands were very successful. Sadly, somewhere along the line we got a load of angsty pseudo-antisocial emo fellows who decided that since metal was about rebellion they might as well tell the world about their problems, whether they were relevant or not. It brought a pop mentality to metal, producing a bastardization of the anger metal had and the concept of love gone wrong discussed in so many pop songs. Now you might wonder; doesn't gothic metal do the same thing? Not really. Yes, love in gothic metal is often a self-centered affair, but they don't talk about trying to kill anyone. Why? Because death metal owns that. Also, killing your ex is a rather lame thing to be singing about. However, it does appeal to many teens who have trouble in relationships and because this appeals to their superficial angish they snap it up. Hence the success. Black Veil Brides even had the impertinence to try to cash in on the ostracisation of metal in the public sphere, directly tying it to to the ostracisation of emos. (Does that ever actually happen? :| Emos always seem to have at least two or three friends and usually a girlfriend as well. I haven't got any actual friends here at school, perhaps because I don't try to draw attention to myself.) Bands like this also snap up some extra hipster cred by occasionally talking about societal issues, by which I mean they insult the government or any given power structure, in a pretty hackneyed way. Now for the record, I don't hate BMFV as much as some of the other pop bands out there. I think they have got some talent, even if it is almost entirely stolen from melodeath. I even like Disturbed, although pretty much no one else on here does. :D In addition, I'm no expert - perhaps there are some lyrical themes I'm missing out on. But this is my impression and I think several others share it.

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine O.K. Iceni, what you say is very fair. I guess something just hit a raw nerve :oops:. I can understand absolutely how everybody could sick to the back teeth of teeny whining (I guess this is bands like evanessence, right?), especially since the lyricised hissy fits from what I have heard can be just be so childish and Twilighty. P.S. I'm also glad to hear that you like Disturbed :D !

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine I do like Disturbed but personally feel they are closer to a straight up hard rock band then actually metal, this is the same view I have of Alter Bridge as well, I just have an intense loathing of all these pop-metal bands who attempt to take a non-mainstream music and make it appeal to the masses, this is the reason I lost interest in Metallica, Load and ReLoad are attempts to make metal mainstream, and st. anger is straight up grunge garbage, even Death Magnetic suffers a little from the mainstream metal mentality

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine Ah yeah, Alter Bridge is another one of those odd bands that doesn't seem to fit anywhere... Anyhow, yes. Evanescence might fit that description, but I think Atreyu and Haste The Day are more what I meant. Evanescence at least has the decency not to butcher harsh vocals. 'Twilighty'. Yar, that would be about the measure of it.

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't have a problem with people listening to whatever they want to listen to, but I don't like emo, pop, rap, etc..., and don't want to hear that music wrapped up in "metal" packaging. Using more distortion or putting a few breakdowns in your music is not going to change the fact that you're playing pop music, and it actually irritates me more to see people trying to masquerade as something they're not. Britney Spears has more integrity than Bullet For My Valentine because she doesn't hide the fact that she plays shallow sugar-coated music, you know exactly what you're getting, she doesn't claim to be some virtuoso jazz musician or something else that she's not. If you like your emo music a little harder, that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, but it's not metal, and I get sick these two very different things being lumped together. This is not me being an elitist, because I do like bands that have achieved mainstream success, but these bands are doing nothing more than riding a trend to success, and will burn out and fade into obscurity just like the poser pop-metal bastardizations that came before, like Poison, Limp Bizkit, etc... This is also not something that's isolated to metal, and should not be looked at as "just the metal kids picking on the emo kids". I know punks get pretty riled up when you try to associate Rancid or some other pop-punk bullshit in with their Black Flag and Discharge, country fans that hate when Rascall Flats gets associated with the same sound as Johnny Cash, and jazz musicians that can't stand hearing Kenny G being called jazz. Some people will favorably look upon acts like this as "gateway" bands to ween pop music fans over to legitimate artists in the genre, which is valid, but it doesn't mean that I have to like the bands in question.

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't have a problem with people listening to whatever they want to listen to, but I don't like emo, pop, rap, etc..., and don't want to hear that music wrapped up in "metal" packaging. Using more distortion or putting a few breakdowns in your music is not going to change the fact that you're playing pop music, and it actually irritates me more to see people trying to masquerade as something they're not. Britney Spears has more integrity than Bullet For My Valentine because she doesn't hide the fact that she plays shallow sugar-coated music, you know exactly what you're getting, she doesn't claim to be some virtuoso jazz musician or something else that she's not. If you like your emo music a little harder, that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, but it's not metal, and I get sick these two very different things being lumped together. This is not me being an elitist, because I do like bands that have achieved mainstream success, but these bands are doing nothing more than riding a trend to success, and will burn out and fade into obscurity just like the poser pop-metal bastardizations that came before, like Poison, Limp Bizkit, etc... This is also not something that's isolated to metal, and should not be looked at as "just the metal kids picking on the emo kids". I know punks get pretty riled up when you try to associate Rancid or some other pop-punk bullshit in with their Black Flag and Discharge, country fans that hate when Rascall Flats gets associated with the same sound as Johnny Cash, and jazz musicians that can't stand hearing Kenny G being called jazz. Some people will favorably look upon acts like this as "gateway" bands to ween pop music fans over to legitimate artists in the genre, which is valid, but it doesn't mean that I have to like the bands in question.
2nd. This is an argument that will sadly never die. You and I are firmly on the same page here. You should call a spade a spade. It's common sense not "elitism".

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine I know, since when does that happen lol but on BAN's point a spade is a spade and bad music is bad music, I'd say bands like bfmv, trivium, slipknot, killswitch engage etc qualify as bad music in the same way that justin bieber qualifies as bad music (please note all "artists", and I use the term very loosely, mentioned above are so woefully bad I felt it would be an insult to the english language for me to capitalise their names)

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine

I know, since when does that happen lol but on BAN's point a spade is a spade and bad music is bad music, I'd say bands like bfmv, trivium, slipknot, killswitch engage etc qualify as bad music in the same way that justin bieber qualifies as bad music (please note all "artists", and I use the term very loosely, mentioned above are so woefully bad I felt it would be an insult to the english language for me to capitalise their names)
I won't put qualifiers like "good" and "bad" on any artform, because art is entirely subjective and has no intrinsic value, and can therefore not be graded by objective standards. I can hate something, but I won't call it bad.

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I don't have a problem with people listening to whatever they want to listen to, but I don't like emo, pop, rap, etc..., and don't want to hear that music wrapped up in "metal" packaging. Using more distortion or putting a few breakdowns in your music is not going to change the fact that you're playing pop music, and it actually irritates me more to see people trying to masquerade as something they're not. Britney Spears has more integrity than Bullet For My Valentine because she doesn't hide the fact that she plays shallow sugar-coated music, you know exactly what you're getting, she doesn't claim to be some virtuoso jazz musician or something else that she's not. If you like your emo music a little harder, that's fine, you're entitled to your own opinion, but it's not metal, and I get sick these two very different things being lumped together. This is not me being an elitist, because I do like bands that have achieved mainstream success, but these bands are doing nothing more than riding a trend to success, and will burn out and fade into obscurity just like the poser pop-metal bastardizations that came before, like Poison, Limp Bizkit, etc... This is also not something that's isolated to metal, and should not be looked at as "just the metal kids picking on the emo kids". I know punks get pretty riled up when you try to associate Rancid or some other pop-punk bullshit in with their Black Flag and Discharge, country fans that hate when Rascall Flats gets associated with the same sound as Johnny Cash, and jazz musicians that can't stand hearing Kenny G being called jazz. Some people will favorably look upon acts like this as "gateway" bands to ween pop music fans over to legitimate artists in the genre, which is valid, but it doesn't mean that I have to like the bands in question.
I assume we distinguish between influence and stealing. For example, Eluveitie and Celtic Woman both play folk-sounding music, but Eluveitie metalized it. Neurotech and Darude both play electronic music, but Neurotech metalized this too. How does one distinguish between influence and musical lying?

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine

I assume we distinguish between influence and stealing. For example' date=' Eluveitie and Celtic Woman both play folk-sounding music, but Eluveitie metalized it. Neurotech and Darude both play electronic music, but Neurotech metalized this too. How does one distinguish between influence and musical lying?[/quote'] A focus on shallow songwriting, image, gimmicks, trends, money, popularity, basically anything that is more of a sales tactic than an artistic tool.

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine

I assume we distinguish between influence and stealing. For example, Eluveitie and Celtic Woman both play folk-sounding music, but Eluveitie metalized it. Neurotech and Darude both play electronic music, but Neurotech metalized this too. How does one distinguish between influence and musical lying?
Hi Iceni, How does one distinguish? IMHO one doesn't, I don't believe there is such a thing as stealing as no band sets out only to sound like another and, again IMHO, they are just people who love metal so much they want to play it all the time and give people joy through their songs. And anyway, is copy-catting always bad? After all, if you really like a band's sound, but they then get bored of it or become jaded, is it not better to have someone with fresh enthusiasm pick up the sound? Just some of my, no doubt to be ridiculed ;) , thoughts. P.S. Slipknot, BFMV, Trivium etc. rock hard!!! :twisted:

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Re: Bullet For My Valentine if it's not furthering metal as an art form then how can duplicating the sound of another band possibly be a good thing? if anything it means metal is taking a step backwards, like I said in another thread a band that sounds like Anthrax crossed with Overkill is not a good thing if there's nothing original about them and I think we may have to agree to disagree on the status of slipknot, trivium etc

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