What's on your mind?

[navybsn]

11 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Didja have to kill and gut the pig yourself?

Low and slow brother. 1-1.5 hours per pound at 230 until internal is at 200F. Add in prep (the pork and the smoker) and the cool off period, 10 hours easy.

11 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

Yeah I usually start prepping mine about 8am, cook it till about 5pm, rest it for 20 mins then start wrecking it. The ones I do are using about 3KG and it takes me about 40 mins to separate it, then sauce it ready for eating.

Sounds about right. The best thing to me is the leftovers (there's only 3 of us so there's always a bunch). Makes great hash with some diced sweet potato, green pepper, onion, jalapeno, and cheese. Breakfast burritos, baked potatoes, even with fried rice. One of the most versatile meats along with brisket.

[AlSymerz]

As much as I love the left overs I do get a little sick of it after 3 or 4 days.

I've done pulled beef and pulled chicken several times but I do prefer pork.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

1 hour ago, KillaKukumba said:

As much as I love the left overs I do get a little sick of it after 3 or 4 days.

I've done pulled beef and pulled chicken several times but I do prefer pork.

 

We all knew you loved pulling your pork the best before you told us.

[AlSymerz]

Some of us admit while others treat it as a shameful addiction they can't talk about.

[Sheol]

I'm thinking of what a complete dickbag Scott Kelly is. If you've missed it, here's his statement from last week

Quote

Due to recent events, I feel that I clearly need to address some rumors and set the record straight. For the past several years I have engaged in the emotional, financial, verbal and physical abuse of my wife and younger children. When I became paranoid that people were going to find out, I found ways to keep my wife and kids from work and school and created divisions with friends and family members. I became obsessed with control and used threats, manipulation, threats of self-harm and suicide, inflicted physical damage on people and their reputations all to keep that control. When I knew my wife was going to leave I tried to convince her and others that I was crazy, and seeing things, and that I did not know what I was doing. She tried to help me with therapy and psychiatrists. My lies and deceptions fell apart in front of the professionals. When my wife finally tried to leave, I stalked and harassed her day and night and caused her and our youngest to live in a constant state of fear. I have lied or told half truths to so many people about so much of this that I can’t keep track of them. I don’t want to lie about any of this anymore. I love my wife to no end. She is the best person that I know. She is intensely honest, loving and good to her core. This letter is massive simplification of the irreparable damage I have caused and the unforgivable things that I’ve done to her and our kids. To say more in this public forum would not help anyone. As the truth has started to leak out there have been people who have tried to blame my wife for my abuse to give me an out and people who have spread ridiculous and damaging rumors about her. This is fucked. She deserves so much better. If you are adopting this mentality or spreading these rumors you need to fucking stop. I have some serious issues that I am dealing with and I have separated myself from anyone who is connected with my public life so that I can focus on my own toxic shit. When my wife has been kind enough to answer questions about my absence, she has faced crazy accusations. There was a recent situation that was so fucked up that it necessitated immediate action on my part to set the record straight. My wife absolutely speaks for me in my absence and I have already said she is intensely honest. If you don’t want the truth definitely don’t ask her questions. Additionally it is never appropriate to approach or question our children.

I know now that choosing to live a public life and be onstage was the worst decision that I could have made given the way that I am. I have hidden behind the attention and unfounded respect and adulation. I used my social position to directly and indirectly manipulate all of you and to hide the abuse of my family. I got satisfaction from my deception and perceived control of everyone involved. I am 100% permanently retired from being a professional musician. Some people can be in a scene like this where there is no accountability and maintain their integrity. I cannot. My sole focus for the rest of my life is on taking care of my family, allowing them safe space to heal and rebuilding their trust. I hope putting this out there will protect my wife from further attacks and finally allow my family some peace.

 

And here are his former bandmates in Neurosis:

Quote

NEUROSIS's statement in full reads as follows: "We cannot overstate the level of disgust and disappointment we feel for a man who we once called Brother.

"As a band, we parted ways with Scott Kelly at the end of 2019 after learning about severe acts of abuse he committed towards his family over the previous years. In the past, Scott had disclosed his marital difficulties and acts of verbal abuse, as well as his intention to get help and change his behaviors. The information we learned in 2019 made it clear Scott had crossed a line and there was no way back. We did not share this information out of respect for his wife's direct request for privacy, and to honor the family's wish not to let their experience become gossip in a music magazine. With Scott's Facebook post of August 27, 2022 disclosing much of this information publicly, we can finally say what we believe needs to be said.

"For the last twenty years we have lived far apart from one another and only saw Scott when meeting up to work on music or play shows. We had no idea what the reality was for his family when we were not around. By Scott's own admission, his abuse was intentional, targeted, and a closely guarded secret - even from those of us closest to him.

"Once we learned of his abuse it was difficult to reconcile the horrible information with the person we thought we knew. It's not surprising he hid the abuse for so long because it is a betrayal of our ethics as bandmates, partners, parents, and human beings.

"Since 2019, we have made numerous attempts to contact Scott. We wanted to have an honest talk about the status of the band and find out how he and his family were doing, but he has refused to speak with us for three years. And, in what we now see clearly to be a pattern, Scott refused to take responsibility for his actions. Having been through so much with someone for more than 35 years, one would expect some amount of closure, or at the very least a response.

"Now, without returning any of the calls, texts, or e-mails of his bandmates and friends, Scott has made a public post about the situation. To us, this decision seems like another attempt at manipulation, another opportunity for his narcissism to control the narrative. Don't allow Scott to make this about himself, it's about the abuse his family has suffered.

"Usually, we would view public openness and honesty about mental illness as brave and even productive. We just don't believe that is the case here.

"There is nothing brave about systematically abusing your wife and children.

"There is nothing brave about confessing wrongdoing when you have not done the work to change your behavior.

"There is nothing brave about refusing to speak honestly, or speak at all, with one's closest friends and bandmates, people who have supported you and stuck by you for most of your life.

"Compared to the impact of Scott's actions on his family, the impact on our band pales in significance. Nevertheless, with the heartbreak and horror we also grieve for the loss of our life's work and a legacy that was sacred to us.

"Again, our primary concern is for the safety and well-being of Scott's wife and children, as well as anyone else in a similar situation. If someone you know is experiencing domestic violence or abuse, please reach out to one of the many local or national resources available. One national resource is:

"National Domestic Violence Hotline 1-800-799-7233 www.thehotline.org

 

"If you or someone you know is suffering from mental health issues that could make you a danger to yourself or others, please get help before you hurt yourself or the people you love. One resource for that is www.988lifeline.org.

 

"This is the only statement we plan to make about this issue. In due course, when it's appropriate, we will provide more information about our future musical endeavors, but that time is not now."

 

[RelentlessOblivion]

There’s a bevy of insults I’d really like to unleash about that guy, I’m glad he’s wife and kids aren’t in that situation any more. Domestic abuse really does need to be taken more seriously than it is right now.

[navybsn]

Never been a fan of the band or know anything about anyone in it, but I did see some talk and link to his post on Facebook. Without the context from his fellow bandmates, it comes off as genuine. With the band's perspective, changes things significantly. Lots of people fall into traps in life and make bad decisions. Fame, money, power, or influence even on a relatively small scale can do that to even those with the best of intentions. Some folks need a push (or shove) back in the right direction to get back to normal. Shame at your own actions or situation can motivate you to keep secrets you shouldn't. Doesn't seem to be the case here. I agree with the band, this is pathological. Dude needs to be under the jail and the family needs to get the hell away from him for good.

[FatherAlabaster]

An artist friend told me about Midjourney a while back - an AI program, capable of creating truly beautiful original images from text prompts. He uses it for vizualizations for his own work. One of my other friends recently shared some pretty gorgeous images he initiated, too - not sure if he's also planning to use them in his work. Nothing against other people doing that, but it's antithetical to my process. It's not so much about "cheating" as it is about cheating myself out of one of the things I really value about making art. 

Now I'm seeing it crack the mainstream and thinking maybe I'm done with cover illustrations after I fulfill my next few. I can't help but think the vast majority of people's illustration needs will be well served by what this kind of software offers - beautiful custom images in a variety of styles, tweakable, potentially ready for print, for what I think is a pretty low membership fee. I don't really have an interest in competing in that market.

Seems like my energy would be better spent focusing on real objects; even if they're paintings, really bringing the physical qualities of them to the fore, rather than just using paint as a means of image production. But doing them just for myself is kind of a waste, and selling them keeps me in the world of luxury goods for the leisure class, which I honestly fucking hate even if I am psyched when I occasionally sell something. 

In summation: fuck, ugh, meh.

[navybsn]

39 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

An artist friend told me about Midjourney a while back - an AI program, capable of creating truly beautiful original images from text prompts. He uses it for vizualizations for his own work. One of my other friends recently shared some pretty gorgeous images he initiated, too - not sure if he's also planning to use them in his work. Nothing against other people doing that, but it's antithetical to my process. It's not so much about "cheating" as it is about cheating myself out of one of the things I really value about making art. 

Now I'm seeing it crack the mainstream and thinking maybe I'm done with cover illustrations after I fulfill my next few. I can't help but think the vast majority of people's illustration needs will be well served by what this kind of software offers - beautiful custom images in a variety of styles, tweakable, potentially ready for print, for what I think is a pretty low membership fee. I don't really have an interest in competing in that market.

Seems like my energy would be better spent focusing on real objects; even if they're paintings, really bringing the physical qualities of them to the fore, rather than just using paint as a means of image production. But doing them just for myself is kind of a waste, and selling them keeps me in the world of luxury goods for the leisure class, which I honestly fucking hate even if I am psyched when I occasionally sell something. 

In summation: fuck, ugh, meh.

Yeah, that's bullshit. I'm an analog kinda guy. 2D animation. Hand drawn art. That sorta stuff. More character than the new fangled stuff. Think Ghilbi studio vs Pixar. Give me Akira over Toy Story any day. Derek Riggs over AI.  It's been going on for quite a while now. A lot of traditionally animators are going the way you are and saying the hell with it. I really hope it's just a fad and we'll get start moving away from it, but you're probably right.

[FatherAlabaster]

1 minute ago, navybsn said:

Yeah, that's bullshit. I'm an analog kinda guy. 2D animation. Hand drawn art. That sorta stuff. More character than the new fangled stuff. Think Ghilbi studio vs Pixar. Give me Akira over Toy Story any day. Derek Riggs over AI.  It's been going on for quite a while now. A lot of traditionally animators are going the way you are and saying the hell with it. I really hope it's just a fad and we'll get start moving away from it, but you're probably right.

I'm conflicted, or maybe I can just see different sides of it. And I suppose I'm not so much talking about the broad digital vs. analog debate as I am these newer AI tools that generate some pretty compelling custom images from verbal prompts. There's no barrier to entry anymore. Part of me hates it. I'm staunchly against using it for my own stuff because the joy and self-exploration of visualizing things is the reason I make art in the first place. Actually producing the stuff isn't really the fun part. And thinking about a mass of AI-produced art dominating everyone's visual experiences, or weakening people's abilities to visualize things on their own, makes me feel a bit hopeless.

On the other hand I think a large proportion of band illustrations and book covers and similar stuff could be handled by software like this, quickly and cheaply and well. So many bands just want something that looks cool that maybe has something to do with their lyrics, and they can't afford to pay a whole bunch. It doesn't matter who made it or if it exists as an object somewhere. I'd have a problem with someone passing it off as their own creation, because that seems like lying. But if x up-and-coming band wants a pile of skulls in a pit surrounded by demon boobs on their album cover and they can't afford Paolo Girardi, well, have at it? Maybe? 

[AlSymerz]

There is always going to be a place for what you do, sure it might be a hard road to find it but it will happen if you can keep at it. As an only source of income it can be made difficult but some of the best success stories are found by people who didn't give up doing what they love despite the world around them advancing.

Pretty much every business out there that has technology advancing to 'make their job easier' has faced what you're thinking, but the smarter ones have kept moving forward. FFS who'd have thought LP's and cassettes would ever have come back for anyone more than collectors who think the old ways are better. People want things that are retro, your art might not be retro today but tomorrow if such art does become retro and you've given it up someone else steals the limelight.

I'm sure there are plenty of bands who can't afford lavish productions and can't afford to pay a real artist to create their covers, one look at some of the current covers on bandcamp prove that. (That's not suggesting bad covers haven't been out there since before digital came along.) But that doesn't mean those willing to pay don't exist. Also there is nothing wrong with diversifying, cheap rate gets cheaper production, expensive rates get designer artwork, present both options as viable, present logical and compelling reasons for both, while always focusing on what makes you the happiest. Even when a client chooses the cheaper and less creative option you still get paid, your name still gets out there as artwork creator and a half fee is better than no fee at all. You never know where that one foot in the door made lead and if it's something your love why let it go simply because other people have options?

 

[FatherAlabaster]

1 minute ago, KillaKukumba said:

There is always going to be a place for what you do, sure it might be a hard road to find it but it will happen if you can keep at it. As an only source of income it can be made difficult but some of the best success stories are found by people who didn't give up doing what they love despite the world around them advancing.

Pretty much every business out there that has technology advancing to 'make their job easier' has faced what you're thinking, but the smarter ones have kept moving forward. FFS who'd have thought LP's and cassettes would ever have come back for anyone more than collectors who think the old ways are better. People want things that are retro, your art might not be retro today but tomorrow if such art does become retro and you've given it up someone else steals the limelight.

I'm sure there are plenty of bands who can't afford lavish productions and can't afford to pay a real artist to create their covers, one look at some of the current covers on bandcamp prove that. (That's not suggesting bad covers haven't been out there since before digital came along.) But that doesn't mean those willing to pay don't exist. Also there is nothing wrong with diversifying, cheap rate gets cheaper production, expensive rates get designer artwork, present both options as viable, present logical and compelling reasons for both, while always focusing on what makes you the happiest. Even when a client chooses the cheaper and less creative option you still get paid, your name still gets out there as artwork creator and a half fee is better than no fee at all. You never know where that one foot in the door made lead and if it's something your love why let it go simply because other people have options?

 

I'm not worried about the business side of it, at least for my own sake. I understand it might have come off that way, but really I'm more idealistically/naively thinking about What It All Means For Art, what even is creativity, etc. I'm feeling... I dunno... pensive, skeptical, a little cynical, a little annoyed. I have lots of different thoughts about it. 

I'm sure there will continue to be a market for high-quality work from illustrators who have a strong brand, and on the other side there will always be amateurish hacky garbage. There's a significant middle ground, and I think that's where the AI thing might actually help. I used to get a lot of messages from bands with terrible ideas and no budget, looking for a "friend price" or a handout or a discount on "something you already have laying around"; also, better but still not great, bands who had a little bit of money and a lot of ideas, but no visual understanding, that had me thinking "how do I fit this absolute dog's breakfast into a 5x5.5 inch rectangle in a way that makes sense?" Now, these folks can just go prompt the Midjourney chatbot, and maybe it spits out something they like enough to just use as is, or maybe they take that image to an artist to use as a starting point. If it saves everyone a bunch of miscommunication, bands paying for sketches they don't like, artists getting shafted, etc, then great. And maybe there will be less of an incentive for unscrupulous illustrators to rip off other people's work, since they can just whip something up with meager effort.

I think it's going to get harder and harder to tell handmade images from AI-generated stuff - it already is, some of the preliminary images my friends have "worked on" are really impressive - and I'm not even sure it matters. There are hi-res printers that can do some incredible things; match that with this image generation technology, and you can produce actual objects that actual people will enjoy and value. Something in me wants to rebel against the idea that there could be "value" in a computer-generated piece of art, and I just fucking know there are going to be some schmucks who use the software and take all the credit, but then, who am I to tell people what value they should or shouldn't find in something?

It's not even just images or just AI. Before my son was born, I worked at an art handling shop, making crates mostly, and one of our regular clients was an artist (Barry X Ball) who had 3D models of his sculptures in a CNC setup that could cut stone. He could set up a hunk of marble or whatever and have the machines rough out copies of his stuff, and then there were sheds out back where he had a team of craftspeople doing the finishing work. Pure luxury goods for rich people. I fucking hated it. Conversely I really loved Robert Lazzarini's stuff when I saw it in person - 3D models of common objects that he stretched and distorted, printed out with a 3D printer, and cast in various materials (skulls in cast bone, hammers in metal, etc). That show wasn't about the objects, it was about the experience of perceiving them - I didn't feel like I was looking at a hammer or a skull that someone had stretched out; I felt like I was standing in a fishtank or there was something wrong with my eyes. So I guess the point there for me is that having a digital component, or even not relying much on human craftsmanship, doesn't preclude creating a real, impactful art experience.

Honestly the art experience is what I care most about. Illustration is kind of a sideline. Even the stuff I show at the gallery falls a little flat in that regard. I need something more. So in a way it's inspiring to think about what I might be able to do that would still have value in a world where the supposed "creativity" of image production can be mimicked so convincingly. It forces me out of my box a bit, I guess.

[AlSymerz]

Now you're starting to sound like cassette and LP purists in the 80's when CD's for started coming around. Then CD purists when MP3's started to become popular. Them MP3 purists when flac became popular. Betamax to VHS, VHS to Laserdisc, Laserdisc to DVD, DVD to mp4. Horse and cart to ICE, ICE to electric.

 

I'm not saying it's not something to be concerned about, no matter where your concern lays, just about everything that's been taken over by technology still exists. Art may well get harder and harder to tell the difference between digital and real but there will be ways and there will be purists keeping it alive.

My cousin's wife is an artist and she saw years ago that what she was doing was becoming easier and easier to reproduce electronically and less and less people wanted to pay for it so she created her own niche market. It's taken her 10 years starting from a small bungalow in remote Tasmania with a leaking roof and no heating, but she's now in demand with clients worldwide. It can't and wont happen to everyone, but it certainly wont happen to those who loose their focus, or decide that they've become, or are becoming redundant.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

4 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Now you're starting to sound like cassette and LP purists in the 80's when CD's for started coming around. Then CD purists when MP3's started to become popular. Them MP3 purists when flac became popular. Betamax to VHS, VHS to Laserdisc, Laserdisc to DVD, DVD to mp4. Horse and cart to ICE, ICE to electric.

 

I'm not saying it's not something to be concerned about, no matter where your concern lays, just about everything that's been taken over by technology still exists. Art may well get harder and harder to tell the difference between digital and real but there will be ways and there will be purists keeping it alive.

My cousin's wife is an artist and she saw years ago that what she was doing was becoming easier and easier to reproduce electronically and less and less people wanted to pay for it so she created her own niche market. It's taken her 10 years starting from a small bungalow in remote Tasmania with a leaking roof and no heating, but she's now in demand with clients worldwide. It can't and wont happen to everyone, but it certainly wont happen to those who loose their focus, or decide that they've become, or are becoming redundant.

 

I was an LP purist in the early 90's when they tried to phase them out and make everyone buy CD's. I have since reconsidered my position.

I hope your cousin's wife gets some heat soon at least! Doesn't it get cold down there?

[AlSymerz]

I suppose I was an LP purist too at one point, however spending a lot of time away from home fixed that, a record player in the truck was harder to stop skipping that those first portable CD players!

She started out with no heat, but she's got a whole house. My cuz is a muso, metal head too, but because Tassie doesn't have metal bands 😲 he became a part time house renovator. He's done a pretty good job for a muso!

[FatherAlabaster]

6 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Now you're starting to sound like cassette and LP purists in the 80's when CD's for started coming around. Then CD purists when MP3's started to become popular. Them MP3 purists when flac became popular. Betamax to VHS, VHS to Laserdisc, Laserdisc to DVD, DVD to mp4. Horse and cart to ICE, ICE to electric.

I don't think I am, but if I was, could you blame me? Art's a big part of my life. It's what I went to school for, I do it a lot, I think about it constantly. This looks like a big development and I'm wondering what will happen next. I'm not saying it shouldn't happen, or that only real paintings by real people are real art. I don't think that; I think the important part is the experience someone has in looking at it. But yeah, putting so much energy for so long into visualizing things for myself and other people, and then seeing this Discord chatbot that can be pretty easily coaxed into doing the same thing... what can I say. I'm taken aback.

 

6 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

 

I'm not saying it's not something to be concerned about, no matter where your concern lays, just about everything that's been taken over by technology still exists. Art may well get harder and harder to tell the difference between digital and real but there will be ways and there will be purists keeping it alive.

My cousin's wife is an artist and she saw years ago that what she was doing was becoming easier and easier to reproduce electronically and less and less people wanted to pay for it so she created her own niche market. It's taken her 10 years starting from a small bungalow in remote Tasmania with a leaking roof and no heating, but she's now in demand with clients worldwide. It can't and wont happen to everyone, but it certainly wont happen to those who loose their focus, or decide that they've become, or are becoming redundant.

 

Well, again, I'm not worried about getting driven out of business by technology. I'm wondering what I can do to focus more on what I care about in art and hopefully make something meaningful. I suppose that when I said above that I was thinking about stopping illustration work after the projects I have on deck, it looked like defeatism, but that's not how I meant it. It sounds liberating.

[AlSymerz]

No one's blaming you for anything. Of course it's a big part of your life and it's natural to be concerned, but being concerned is no reason to have a negative outlook. Honestly I'm not trying to change your mind, change the way you think, or even suggest what you should do. I'm only making the point that change does not have to be negative. Too many people in this world see change coming and either spend their time complaining why they can't move forward with the change or they simply give up. It's up to each person how they deal with change but I never choose to give up. I always try and find the positive even when others tell me it's not there.

 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

Sure it's easy for an Orca like you to find the positive when you're the apex predator of the oceans. Don't have to wonder where your next meal is coming from when you can kill indiscriminately and no one is trying to eat you.

[AlSymerz]

Just because one is big, full of blubber and doesn't get eaten very often doesn't mean life is free from downsides. Global warming, melting icebergs, people pissing in the ocean, these things are real man!
 

[GoatmasterGeneral]

Wouldn't melting icebergs just mean more water for you to swim and hunt in, and global warming would be like having a heated pool? Doesn't sound so bad to me.

[AlSymerz]

Melting icebergs are fun play toys, but they melt to quickly. In the old lore of the orca our ancestors talked about playing with their cold icy play toys for weeks on end, now days they barely last a few days. And what's a warm bath without bubbles?

 

[FatherAlabaster]

Don't be so negative. I had this cousin who was a lungfish and when times got tough its kids wound up flopping around on the land for long enough to breathe air, and come up with feet, and even the ability to regulate their own body temperature. Some of those kids got to be kind of like hippos, and they eventually decided that even though they breathed air and had feet and stuff, they missed the water so much that they wanted to go back, and it took 10 million years starting out in some tiny muddy rivers, but now they roam the oceans at will. Some of them even still have their teeth and play with food as they kill it. Being an orca takes commitment and dedication!

[AlSymerz]

As if there is a positive side to a bath with no bubbles.

[AlSymerz]

The kids just turned up with KFC for fathers day lunch. I'm not a huge fan of KFC but it's good to see they remembered the old fart.

[markm]

So we've been settling in with these two cats my wife rescued. "Connie", the kitten has some unusual behaviors and I'm curious if any of the cat folk have seen this. Connie has become extremely bonded with my wife. She follows her around, sleeps on top of a reclining chair my wife sit in while watching TV.  At night he jumps on the bed, curls up with my wife and starts purring. She'll walk up to her head and starts purring loud-like a motor, this purring is, you'd think a tractor engine was being started, and will  sleep on her shoulder. Then,  I started noticing these disturbing slurping sounds. Like sucking on a lollipop or something more sinister....mooo-ha-ha!

When I first heard the noise, I asked my wife WTF is going on with this cat?  Like, make it stop ffs. She was sucking her ear lobe. She did a  little research-turns out according to what she found online that if you remove kittens too early from their mothers they sometimes have a surrogate relationship with one of their people and one of their behaviors is to lick and suck your earlobes like it was it's mother's nipple or maybe like a child sucking a pacifier. Weird AF. Kind of creeps me out. 

She was rescued at 11 weeks rather than the 14-16 weeks that's recommended. Connie is sooo bonded to my wife, it's nuts. She'll follow me around, too and loves to play. She really has a sweet uncomplicated temperament. She's also mischievous as hell. She'll try get on the table. She knows I won't a allow it....terrible two's or something. Fuck with me!

Any of you seen any behaviors like this? Apparently it goes away after a while, but in the meantime, whenever I hear that noise,  TBH it reminded me of the end of a chapter in Stephen King's Salem's Lot that raised the hair on the back of my neck decades ago-the sound of a child vampire sucking her victim's blood.