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Making it to MDF One year is still something I’d love to do so between that and the hit of nostalgia for the good old days of metal forum I can safely say I’m more than a little jealous. One of these years I’ll get to one of these festivals, the guy who owned the place are used to do my guitar and vocal lessons through was a promoter at one point, he ended up putting more time into the teaching side of his business but Covid wiped them out unfortunately. A shame because he was going to have Devin Townsend do a masterclass for them at one point pre-pandemic. 

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I remember meeting AJ Maddah (Soundwave founder/promoter) the year Devin Townsend played Soundwave. In 2012 AJ Maddah was a guy doing what other promoters couldn't, putting 50+ bands on a string of festival dates across Australia, and because he'd worked on pretty much every big music festival we'd had. But he was far from the flavour of the month in 2015 when he stopped paying many of the international acts and 2016 when it was reported he'd gone to ground owing more than $11M to bands and undisclosed amounts to others involved. Was a hard time for festival promoters in this country after AJ fucked up so badly.

 

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On 5/27/2022 at 12:20 AM, KillaKukumba said:

Different rules for different states here but in some areas we are not even allowed to touch it, in the areas where we can it must be disposed of properly and tyvek suits with masks must be worn, or pros must be called in. We've got ads on TV reminding people to get any house over 20 years old checked by asbestos experts because it was such a widely used product until the late 90's.

We used to get a lot of people dumping it on building sites in the middle of the night because of the cost involved in removing it but it's not so bad these days. A farmer not far from here, who is also a doctor and often cited in the Mesothelioma workers claims against local employers who made workers handle asbestos actually dumps all his asbestos in a big hole down the back paddock 30 meters from the creek that locals rely on for water.

We've torn down a few old sheds and a dairy here that was 90% asbestos, but we tyveked up, made sure there was no dust and did it properly, it also cost us about $500 to dispose of. One time I hired a skip bin to do a huge clean up and threw out a heap of old cement sheeting, the guy who picked the bin up refused to take it at first because he claimed the cement sheeting was actually asbestos. I pointed out to the dickhead that it wasn't asbestos and the big green lettering painted on the back from the factory stating that it was 'asbestos free' meant he could take it with him. After about 30 minutes of bullshit discussion he said he'd take it but told me the 'asbestos free' label by the biggest producer of asbestos free cement sheeting in the country, lies to the government and still used asbestos after it was banned. I asked him if he also believed in Aliens anal probing him when no one else was around and he got shitty with me. :)

 

We've got same rule re not touching asbestos if you find it. Although when I dealt with it last time we were allowed to deal with it if we wear the suit and proper mask etc. I disposed all  PPE  in bags and sent to official asbestos place for disposal

Re getting asbestos surveys done. That's great idea for property over 20 years. There was some housing at work which we provide water services to and a few streets not long back got closed because they were covered in loose broken bits of asbestos. Not always easy to tell what asbestos is. We also have a big site we go to and vast majority of its buildings are not used because they contain asbestos. 

Not asbestos label is not good enough for some people. 

Good plan re creating a no dust  environment for asbestos. People from work handled some of it in from previous bwork and they try not to think about it as they were not wearing PPE and there was dust.b That breathing issue with it is bad. Not what anyone wants.

Don't sound like a good idea to dump asbestos in a deep hole not that far from the water supply. Too risky. 

Your lucky you've not been anal probed by an alien. 😂 Ouch. 

 

 

 

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On 5/28/2022 at 11:45 PM, KillaKukumba said:

I can't be bothered travelling 3 hours to a concert, I can't imagine having the inclination to travel half way around the world

Im of the same opinion. There was a good doom festival in London which is only an hour on the train. Sadly I'd just booked a gig and been to cinema Many times that month so I was not allowed to go. There's another doom festival in July but I'm not allowed to have a jolly up north while my wife looks after the kids. Some people 😉 

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26 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

We've got same rule re not touching asbestos if you find it. Although when I dealt with it last time we were allowed to deal with it if we wear the suit and proper mask etc. I disposed all  PPE  in bags and sent to official asbestos place for disposal

Re getting asbestos surveys done. That's great idea for property over 20 years. There was some housing at work which we provide water services to and a few streets not long back got closed because they were covered in loose broken bits of asbestos. Not always easy to tell what asbestos is. We also have a big site we go to and vast majority of its buildings are not used because they contain asbestos. 

Not asbestos label is not good enough for some people. 

Good plan re creating a no dust  environment for asbestos. People from work handled some of it in from previous bwork and they try not to think about it as they were not wearing PPE and there was dust.b That breathing issue with it is bad. Not what anyone wants.

Don't sound like a good idea to dump asbestos in a deep hole not that far from the water supply. Too risky. 

Your lucky you've not been anal probed by an alien. 😂 Ouch. 

 

 

 

I certainly wouldn't want to handle asbestos on a regular basis, it's one thing to pull down an old building on my own property, or that of friends and family, but there is no way I'd volunteer to do it for just anyone. My brother has been involved with mines rescue, confined space operations and hazardous good handling for quite a few years now so we've got a constant reminder of how we are supposed to do things properly.

 

The annoying thing about our doctor/farmer friend dumping asbestos near the creek is that no one seems to care. It was reported the the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) about 10 years ago and they did SFA about it. So it's either more common than we know or the EPA can't be bothered prosecuting a doctor who fights to get employees their asbestos related entitlements and who has a wife on the local Landcare Group.

 

18 minutes ago, blaaacdoommmmfan said:

Im of the same opinion. There was a good doom festival in London which is only an hour on the train. Sadly I'd just booked a gig and been to cinema Many times that month so I was not allowed to go. There's another doom festival in July but I'm not allowed to have a jolly up north while my wife looks after the kids. Some people 😉 

 

In my case it's a three hour drive (5 hours door to door by train), $150+ for most tickets, a nights accommodation, because I'm too lazy to drive country roads at night these days, and essentially 12-18 hours away from home. My wife and the cows probably wouldn't miss me for that time but I just don't think any band is worth that much. Even when Overkill played here in 2019 and it was $80 a ticket and diesel was half the price it is now I just didn't feel I was getting my money's worth for another concert. Others opinions will vary obviously, and that's fine for their situation, but I just don't see value in such events these days

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11 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

Was a hard time for festival promoters in this country after AJ fucked up so badly.

Very bad behaviour. Terrible for the bands who we all know mostly make fuck all anyway. Bad for the punters. I went to a couple of Soundwaves with my kids and had a great time...

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On 5/28/2022 at 8:05 PM, GoatmasterGeneral said:

They start selling tickets each year by July for the next year's festival. So they collected a ton of money in 2019 for the 2020 festival and then were forced to cancel 2 years in a row due to Covid. They were finally ready to honor all the 2020 tickets this year (I had to eat my $250 when I didn't go) but then they had all kinds of problems with some of the European bands having issues with their visas not being approved in time and some of them were not meeting the airlines' vax requirements so couldn't come over. It's gotta be a fucking nightmare running a festival of that size with 80+ bands every year, it's a full time job for those 2 guys and then having Covid throw a monkey wrench in everything must have been the last straw, they probably just really needed a break.

Speaking of this...some of our guys bumped into Ross Dolan before the festival started on Thursday, and insider gossip from him is that Evan and Ryan plan to take a break for a couple of years, and then they're hoping to bring it back maybe around 2024 or something, doing just the Ram's Head/Sounstage format. So it sounds like they just need some time off more than anything, but they still want to do it.

Just gossip though, so take it with a grain of salt

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10 hours ago, Thatguy said:

Very bad behaviour. Terrible for the bands who we all know mostly make fuck all anyway. Bad for the punters. I went to a couple of Soundwaves with my kids and had a great time...

We worked a couple and the were quite well organised. There was always a few issues but in general for such a large event it ran quite smoothly. But like everything it only takes one person to fuck everything up and AJ did that. Thankfully it wasn't permanent and Australia has had more festivals even if they aren't often my type of music. But we also have smaller single day events like Murderfest still going strong.

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22 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

I certainly wouldn't want to handle asbestos on a regular basis, it's one thing to pull down an old building on my own property, or that of friends and family, but there is no way I'd volunteer to do it for just anyone. My brother has been involved with mines rescue, confined space operations and hazardous good handling for quite a few years now so we've got a constant reminder of how we are supposed to do things properly.

 

The annoying thing about our doctor/farmer friend dumping asbestos near the creek is that no one seems to care. It was reported the the EPA (Environmental Protection Agency) about 10 years ago and they did SFA about it. So it's either more common than we know or the EPA can't be bothered prosecuting a doctor who fights to get employees their asbestos related entitlements and who has a wife on the local Landcare Group.

 

 

In my case it's a three hour drive (5 hours door to door by train), $150+ for most tickets, a nights accommodation, because I'm too lazy to drive country roads at night these days, and essentially 12-18 hours away from home. My wife and the cows probably wouldn't miss me for that time but I just don't think any band is worth that much. Even when Overkill played here in 2019 and it was $80 a ticket and diesel was half the price it is now I just didn't feel I was getting my money's worth for another concert. Others opinions will vary obviously, and that's fine for their situation, but I just don't see value in such events these days

I never Want to handle asbestos but recent example had me concerned the grass cutters will smash it up with there ride on mowers as they smash everything else up. This was incentive enough for me to tidy bits up. I've never done much more than neatly pile it up and segregate it and barrier it off until it's collected. It's part of the reason I gave up smoking,  we did asbestos awareness course and apparently smokers with asbestos in them have higher chance of developing a asbestos related disiese. Even my scientist wife agrees with this. Although asbestos can stay in some people as far as I'm aware and cause no issues but others die a painful death from it. 

Thats annoying about the politics relating to the doctor who tips that asbestos in the ground close to that water supply. Youd have thought someone would at least look in to it and ask the doc a few uncomfortable questions if needed. 

Concerts are cool especially when there close. Next one I go to is a 45 mins drive. It's easy drive too. Not too far from where I work. And tickets £25 so good value as far as I'm concerned. That's one advantage with seeing less popular bands. Lower prices. I looked at Mettalicas last tour and I saw the price and it put me off. £100 for seats in binoculars zone. Sure I can watch the screen but I could do that at home for alot less £££. Plus I'd have needed accommodation as it was west London where as north London I can do in a day on the train

 

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The biggest problem with asbestos related problems is that many don't present themselves for up to 20 years. The farmer doctor down the road told us that, with the added by-line that at 65 he didn't have much worry of what he was going to catch in 20 years time. To be fair to him he might well have had that foresight correct because I'm pretty sure he'll work himself into a grave before he's 85. His uncomfortable questions may come when he tries to sell the property and an inspection is done because there is no record of him removing the building that the council know where there. But again I think he'll solve that by dying with a massive debt and heaps of cows.

 

 

I don't even look at ticket prices now days. If the gigs are in small bars, the good venues, they'll be between $80-120, but if they are in anything more than a bar the ticket price will be $180 up to over $500 and that's just fucking ridiculous. 

Back in '93 when Guns N Roses toured (if you can call two shows a tour) Oz they set out the deal before they arrived here that they were to be paid US$1M (about AUD$1.3M) to preform two shows. That sent the promoters into a frenzy, they wanted the band to tour but no arena in the country could support two gigs that needed to make that much before the promoters got paid. So after much negotiation they agreed to two outdoor shows at drag strips. General Admin tickets were $50, the front section was upwards of $150 depending on the package. Many reports have stated that over 200,000 people attended both gigs. If we be conservative and all the average ticket price $75 the promoters sold over $15M worth of tickets. They did spend a shitload of money getting two drags strips up to code and getting licences etc. They spent quite a bit putting on buses because public transport was not an option and parking was definitely at a premium for that many fans. They also had to pay a thousand staff some sort of wage, as well as pay Rose Tattoo, Who Cares and Skid Row. But AUD$15M in 1993 to put two shows on when the headline band only wanted $1.3M, and were told by other promoters it was not possible, paved a massive path for international gigs in this country. It showed promoters that people were willing to pay ridiculous amounts of money most of which lined the pockets of the promoters not the bands. We've really only had one promoter here go bust and that's because he took more than he should and tried to juggle more bands than he could handle, the rest of them are wealthy as shit all paid for by the music fans. Many people think record labels rip bands off but promoters are just as bad and now promotions world wide are handled by several companies like Live Nation etc it's only getting worse. I know not everyone looks at seeing bands the same way and that's fine by me, but people are so quick to talk about Spotify etc ripping off bands yet totally ignore that they are far from the only ones and far from the worst. For the record I was there I did pay for front section tickets and I did help the fat cats gets fatter, as I have done for many other gigs too.

 

 

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On 5/30/2022 at 9:16 AM, KillaKukumba said:

In my case it's a three hour drive (5 hours door to door by train), $150+ for most tickets, a nights accommodation, because I'm too lazy to drive country roads at night these days, and essentially 12-18 hours away from home. My wife and the cows probably wouldn't miss me for that time but I just don't think any band is worth that much. Even when Overkill played here in 2019 and it was $80 a ticket and diesel was half the price it is now I just didn't feel I was getting my money's worth for another concert. Others opinions will vary obviously, and that's fine for their situation, but I just don't see value in such events these days

Try living in Tassie - most bands require flying to Melbourne.

 

Even the few coming to Hobart are difficult because accommodation in Hobart is getting to be more expensive than Queensland and because fuel is now stupidly expensive (average of $2.06 a litre).

In fact in Tassie everything is overpriced and stupidly expensive, which is ironic given it's a poor state with huge amounts of people on welfare.   A quarter of the population lives on or below the poverty line (compared to near 19% nationally) and average salaries are 13% below mainland ones (and much more in some areas eg junior doctors are paid around 20% less than mainland ones).

5 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I'm not paying that for any concert and especially not in a stadium. 

Agreed, stadium level bands require massive expenditure to get decent tickets.

 

I spent $250 to see Guns N Roses and the guy who organised them had to spend $50 to join the fanclub to be able to access those tickets.

We were about 50 rows back at the MCG so we could see the band and had decent view of the band.

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46 minutes ago, Dead1 said:

Try living in Tassie - most bands require flying to Melbourne.

 

As much as that sucks for Tassie I can see why it happens. Bands request $X to tour the country, if they want to do a decent tour, 6 or 7 cities minimum they have to take at least two weeks out of their touring schedule, add NZ into the tour and it's closer to three weeks. The same bands can play the same number of gigs to a lot more people with a heap less travelling if they stay in Europe or the US. Sure bands like to say they are in it for the fans but touring Australia and NZ costs a lot of money and it's not always money they make back.

I do think Aussie promoters could do better by Tassie if they pulled their fingers out but it's always going to be an expense that is hard for them to recoup.

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Nail hit on the head - bands and their crews still have to put bread on the table.  Things were getting better pre-COVID in terms of international acts touring to Hobart but COVID trashed everything.

 

The sad thing is we seldom get mainland bands coming here.  Pre-COVID we were getting more international acts coming than mainland ones! 

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That's the thing that really sucks. Aussie promoters aren't willing to risk gigs in their own small backyard because they are too used to the cash cows that are the big states. Gigs don't have to all be festival type events with heaps of bands on the bill but with all the bands we've got in this country and all the genres that are covered Tassie should get a heap more gigs. I'm not sure Tassie can support a larger metal scene like Sydney and Melbourne used to have but there is more to music than just metal and we could easily spread Australian music around the country better.

Tassie proved they could support music events with DarkMofo. It might not have been my type of event, but over the years they've had bands sign exclusive deals which saw them play only Tassie, not the mainland. If the state can organise gigs where deals like that can be struck they could, with the right promotion, put on just about any band.

 

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HBO: We Own This City-Living within an hour of Baltimore, Maryland I was interested when I heard the makers of the show HBO show, The Wire, had a new show based on actual events of police corruption, and tells the real story, originally reported by the Baltimore Sun of the downfall of a police force with "1930's gangster" tactics...the police become the criminals....chilling and and great television, the shit they did in large part to the black population, planting evidence, then confiscating drug money and keeping it, etc......it's like you're constantly saying to yourself, OK, I know some of this shit goes on, but this fucking outrageous. 

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2 hours ago, KillaKukumba said:

That's the thing that really sucks. Aussie promoters aren't willing to risk gigs in their own small backyard because they are too used to the cash cows that are the big states. Gigs don't have to all be festival type events with heaps of bands on the bill but with all the bands we've got in this country and all the genres that are covered Tassie should get a heap more gigs. I'm not sure Tassie can support a larger metal scene like Sydney and Melbourne used to have but there is more to music than just metal and we could easily spread Australian music around the country better.

Tassie proved they could support music events with DarkMofo. It might not have been my type of event, but over the years they've had bands sign exclusive deals which saw them play only Tassie, not the mainland. If the state can organise gigs where deals like that can be struck they could, with the right promotion, put on just about any band.

 

The Hobart scene was growing and we were getting bands like At The Gates, Meshuggah, Napalm Death etc come and play, though number of local bands was in decline.

 

Launceston is completely dead - the thriving metal as well as hard rock scenes of early 2000s are long gone and nothing has replaced them.  The only semi active bands have the same band members and don't really play much at all - 1 gig a year on average.

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59 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

Yeah I knew a few musicians who have resorted to playing football clubs and pokies venues because original bands aren't making the money they used to.

 

The local metal and hard rock scenes never made much money.  When I was involved, bands were lucky to get free beer and make a hundred bucks.  Often only the travelling band got money to cover cost of transport and local guys played for free.

 

In related and somewhat ironic news, apparently two of Intense Hammer Rage guys are now playing in a pop cover band which makes more money than a goregrind band ever would.

Other two members are in Pulverised Cranial Matter which will probably never make a cent.

 

 

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While Melbourne still has the Bendigo Hotel open metal will still get a good run. There are other venues but the Bendigo is pretty much a metal institution. Either next month or the following they have Murderfest happening. Fucked if I could go out in the middle of winter and freeze my arse off at a gig but enough still do to make it viable for 5 bands. 

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So a question for you guys:

 

You have 10 health workers on fixed term contracts that expire on 30-06-22.  At the last minute (31-05-22) you receive notification that the funding for these positions has been extended for a further 2 years.

 

Do you:

 

a.) Extend positions and workers contracts to cover the new funding.  10 people keep jobs, clients continue to get service.  All is good.

 

b.) Decide that instead of two years, you absolutely "need" to have the positions permanent so you completely ignore the 2 year extension and request permanent positions knowing this will get rejected by finance guys thus leaving patients without access to services  and leaving 10 of our lowest paid employees without a job.  

 

If you answered b.) you are an ideal candidate to manage the Tasmanian Health Service where it's mandatory to to play stupid games to win stupid prizes.

 

 

EDIT: No not my job on the line.  I'm just exasperated by increasingly stupid management decisions and this one takes the cake.

 

EDIT2: Well actually the recent decision that takes the cake was to get rid of the 24-7 Mental Health Helpline and replace it with a Mon-Fri 8:00-4:30 service.  Don't get mentally ill after 4:30 pm or on weekends or public holidays.

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It's a no win situation. Fill the job with contract workers and you've got little to no hope of getting the government to open full time roles where they are needed. Don't fill the roles and create a deliberate lack of services and that lack of service starts a fire which is fuelled by the requests and makes denial of those roles in the future harder.

Every government sector from health to garbage collection runs the same way and it kind of has to because there is a lot more at play than simply offering two options. Each option has its own drawbacks and each one has its own field goals when done in a government sector. On paper getting rid of people always looks like the worst option and it's why headlines about sackings in the media look so impressive. But the government cogs wont simply turn better because someone provides oil today, they need to seize so that people take notice tomorrow.

Option a, might be the well meaning solution, but it's a band-aid solution any government needs to avoid spending more money

Option b, is the axe-to-the-head solution any government needs to wake up.

Governments wont be woken up with a band-aid.

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1 hour ago, Dead1 said:

EDIT2: Well actually the recent decision that takes the cake was to get rid of the 24-7 Mental Health Helpline and replace it with a Mon-Fri 8:00-4:30 service.  Don't get mentally ill after 4:30 pm or on weekends or public holidays.

You don't actually have to provide the service, just be able to state in the annual report that the service exists. It is despicable cynicism.

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I'm not surprised they can't afford at 24/7 phone service. I know how much the doctor down the road was getting paid to work the Doctors On Call phones from midnight - 6am on a weekend. 8 months of working the phones paid for the hired labour he needed to get his third farm up to scratch.

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I totally agree but:

Option A is a band aid but it's at least guaranteeing a reprieve for both clients and staff and gives us time to keep fighting for permanent positions. 

Option B already failed - the budget submission to make the positions permanent was already rejected for this years budget.  

 

The media doesn't give two fucks here - I actually went to them when the government cheaply sold a mental health property to a private company to build a private hospital without having any idea as to what do with the mental health services that functioned from there (with about 300 clients).  They didn't even publish the story except as a good news story.  They didn't even question why there was no tender for the land, no consultation, no planning for mental health etc.

This is Tasmania of course - the media supported a highly polluting pulp mill being pursued by timber company Gunns and the government despite open evidence the approval process was corrupted and open disclosure Gunns renovated the Premier's house (no corruption charges laid or even an investigation launched)!    The thing that killed it was actually the banking sector because they saw the whole thing was unprofitable and highly risky given global environmental developments.

But Tassie media and politicians were all for it and portrayed environmental protestors as some sort of terrorists!  Some more extreme politicians were trying to make protesting illegal and there was no media criticism of this either. 

 

Truth about Australia as a whole is the two major parties and media are deeply connected.   It's amazing how many journalists and editors rotate through as media advisers for politicians.

Even the ABC is a just a shill for government and does its best to stifle true criticism of government policy unless it's some bleeding heart story on refugees or indigenous.  They do go out of the way to smash the Greens, despite the Greens espousing the same values ABC pretends to.

 

I get most of my Australian news from Guardian which isn't fully embedded in Australia's toxic incestuous media-political circle.

 

25 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

I'm not surprised they can't afford at 24/7 phone service. I know how much the doctor down the road was getting paid to work the Doctors On Call phones from midnight - 6am on a weekend. 8 months of working the phones paid for the hired labour he needed to get his third farm up to scratch.

They can afford a 24/7 service.  There was just some issues with running it due to performance management of some staff  (I know the managers - they are incompetent as we keep employing  nurses and social workers to run budgets, human resource and asset management - "career progression").

But that was viewed as too hard, so they took an axe to it and replaced it with this stupid Mon-Fri business model.  There was no consultation or discussion of this with the rest of the management team.  It was decided at high level.

The new model costs more to run as they're increased the rate of pay to the new day workers and also employed more administration people.  No one understands how it works or what the new admin people are meant to do.   There was no model of care or anything. 

 

There are rumblings of the after hours bit being privatised.

 

32 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

You don't actually have to provide the service, just be able to state in the annual report that the service exists. It is despicable cynicism.

Exactly.

 

Things used to be a lot better when I started.  It was a bit slow in terms of decision making but we had competent managers at all levels and we had proper procedures, policies etc that were implemented and followed.

Now it's become overly politicised and past cutbacks have gutted all the support arms that you need to run a service (eg policy people, administration support etc).  Decisions are made due to political imperatives, not because they add value or improve services.

This is happening in the Commonwealth too.  Previous Liberal Coalition government was very overt in politicising the higher echelons of the public service which used to be overtly neutral.  At the same time they've gutted the backbones of many services and these now rely on contractors to get things done (privatisation by stealth). 

 

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    • Full length number 19 from overkill certainly makes a splash in the energy stakes, I mean there's some modern thrash bands that are a good two decades younger than Overkill who can only hope to achieve the levels of spunk that New Jersey's finest produce here.  That in itself is an achievement, for a band of Overkill's stature and reputation to be able to still sound relevant four decades into their career is no mean feat.  Even in the albums weaker moments it never gets redundant and the energy levels remain high.  There's a real sense of a band in a state of some renewed vigour, helped in no small part by the addition of Jason Bittner on drums.  The former Flotsam & Jetsam skinsman is nothing short of superb throughout "The Wings of War" and seems to have squeezed a little extra out of the rest of his peers.

      The album kicks of with a great build to opening track "Last Man Standing" and for the first 4 tracks of the album the Overkill crew stomp, bash and groove their way to a solid level of consistency.  The lead work is of particular note and Blitz sounds as sneery and scathing as ever.  The album is well produced and mixed too with all parts of the thrash machine audible as the five piece hammer away at your skull with the usual blend of chugging riffs and infectious anthems.  


      There are weak moments as mentioned but they are more a victim of how good the strong tracks are.  In it's own right "Distortion" is a solid enough - if not slightly varied a journey from the last offering - but it just doesn't stand up well against a "Bat Shit Crazy" or a "Head of a Pin".  As the album draws to a close you get the increasing impression that the last few tracks are rescued really by some great solos and stomping skin work which is a shame because trimming of a couple of tracks may have made this less obvious. 

      4/5
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