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Apprenticeships here aren't as easy to get as they used to be. 20 years ago kids quit school at 15, got an apprenticeship in whatever field they wanted and were pretty much set for life. These days kids are doing their full high school before getting apprenticeships, and many of them are also using trade schools to get apprenticeships, where as it used to be get the apprenticeship and then they tell you which trade school to go to. 

These days so few jobs even have apprenticeships, that many who don't go on to further education don't even go back to schooling to learn their job they simply do on the job training. We are fair to all though, in most cases if someone doesn't want to learn beyond what they are employed for they don't have to be, but those willing to put the effort in usually get further.

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Australian subsidised healthcare:

Given a number of issues we have spent $3,000 on variety of medical and dental procedures in last 2 weeks.

Australian government contribution:  $135.73 (note we pay 2% of our income to this scheme).

Private insurance contribution: $1000 (we pay for this with annual insurance premium of $3,500, otherwise we would have to pay the $1,000 ourselves))

Our out of pocket contribution: $1,800

 

So government coverage of our medical bills equated to a grand total of 4.5% of total.

 

 

 

 

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Dentistry is woefully under covered by the government and insurance companies. Last time I had dental work done the bill was over $3000, I had no government support and medical insurance (non profit fund) paid less than a thousand, and I was paying more than $100 a week for such great coverage. They lost me after such crappy service and I now put that money away in a separate account each week and get interest from it. Although interest rates here are pretty shitty at the moment so it's not like I make much from it.

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I meant to leave governments off that sentence because it's common knowledge how much they don't pay. But the term "medical insurance" kind of hints that it's insurance to cover your for medical treatments, yet in reality private health insurance in this country is a fucking joke.

All insurance companies have clauses that get them out of things, car insurance doesn't pay up if your are unlicensed or drunk, house insurance doesn't pay if you burn your own house down. But medical insurance takes the cake, They'll happily take more per week that some banks do for house loans, then they'll pay 10% for this, 17% for that, 5% for something else, they pay up to $100 a year for one treatment, $200 for another, and nothing for something else. Then they have the hide (because the government lets them) to index price increases every year and they do so with terms like "the government has allowed us to increase by another 5% but we are all about our customers so we'll be nice and only increase by 4.9%.

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And a lot of private health doesn't cover things like anasthesia.

 

I knew a guy who was in an accident (he never told me what) and wheelchair bound.   They discovered a fragment of metal in his neck moving towards his spine.  Apparently it would have killed him in the long run.  Having private healthcare for 20 years he opted to go private and was horrified he was out of pocket near $20,000.

 

He probably would have got it free if he went public.  But he also would've had to wait (which could kill him) and the quality wasn't guaranteed.

 

Australia is moving to an American model.

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1 hour ago, Dead1 said:

Australian subsidised healthcare:

Given a number of issues we have spent $3,000 on variety of medical and dental procedures in last 2 weeks.

Australian government contribution:  $135.73 (note we pay 2% of our income to this scheme).

Private insurance contribution: $1000 (we pay for this with annual insurance premium of $3,500, otherwise we would have to pay the $1,000 ourselves))

Our out of pocket contribution: $1,800

 

So government coverage of our medical bills equated to a grand total of 4.5% of total.

 

 

 

 

Where can I sign up for this? It varies by state here, but a family of 3 or 4 in the US would be paying between $1,100 to $2,000 each and every month for health insurance coverage (as compared to your $3,500 anually) with about one third of Americans having employer subsidized healthcare where their employers might pay anywhere from 50% to 85% of that. Problem is even though our insurance companies will contribute toward the medical bills, our billed medical costs are exponentially higher than any of yours to begin with, so even with insurance chipping in a good chunk we still end up paying higher deductibles and out of pocket costs than what your entire bill would be for the same services even before private insurance. Government contribution: 0. Average per capita health care expenses in the US have surpassed $20,000 per person as of 2020. Those of us without health insurance literally just take our chances and hope like hell we won't need any healthcare services. I'd take the kid if he needed something and pay out of pocket if it came to that, but I won't go to the doctor myself unless I believe it's something life threatening. Fortunately we are both in reasonably good health. For now. 

 

But seriously, how would you expect the poor insurance companies to make their tens of billions in profit (each) if they just gave in and paid out all their customers' medical bills?

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1 hour ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Where can I sign up for this? It varies by state here, but a family of 3 or 4 in the US would be paying between $1,100 to $2,000 each and every month for health insurance coverage (as compared to your $3,500 anually) with about one third of Americans having employer subsidized healthcare where their employers might pay anywhere from 50% to 85% of that. Problem is even though our insurance companies will contribute toward the medical bills, our billed medical costs are exponentially higher than any of yours to begin with, so even with insurance chipping in a good chunk we still end up paying higher deductibles and out of pocket costs than what your entire bill would be for the same services even before private insurance. Government contribution: 0. Average per capita health care expenses in the US have surpassed $20,000 per person as of 2020. Those of us without health insurance literally just take our chances and hope like hell we won't need any healthcare services. I'd take the kid if he needed something and pay out of pocket if it came to that, but I won't go to the doctor myself unless I believe it's something life threatening. Fortunately we are both in reasonably good health. For now. 

 

But seriously, how would you expect the poor insurance companies to make their tens of billions in profit (each) if they just gave in and paid out all their customers' medical bills?

Yeah well America is fucked.

 

Note we Australians pay a Medicare levy (tax) of 2% for healthcare as well a private insurance.  So my family pay $6700 a year for both private/public insurance and that doesn't include out of pocket costs which equate to many more thousands.  Indeed including public/private health insurance as well as out of pocket expenses of over $5,000 this calendar year (no major procedures, just run of the mill stuff), it equates to nearly $12,000 for 1 year.  

2019 it was closer to $20,000 as I had to spend thousands on specialists ,scans and physiotherapy - all of which failed and I simply gave up and just put up with intermittent pain to save money. 

 

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I still reckon comparing one country to another is an unfair comparison. It's not a simple dollar for dollar comparison, but at the end of the day what is comparable is that insurance companies are only in business to make money, they don't expect to pay out to people.

No idea about other countries but in this country the major of all insurance companies (all sectors) are underwritten by about 5 or 6 different major companies. With all the floods, fires, earthquake and wind storms we've had in the last decade insurance companies are not only paying out big they constantly figuring out new ways to not pay of claims.

 

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I'm thinking about how disappointed I was the other night when I went to Steak 'n Shake for the first time in years: they've fired all the waitstaff, gotten rid of the actual dishwear that they used to serve your food on, gotten rid of the counter seating, and now you have to order from a kiosk and then pick your food up when they call your number.

Part of the reason that I liked Steak 'n Shake for so many years was that it felt like a "real" restaurant because you got table service. Now they have shitcanned all of their waitstaff (likely so the CEO could retain his multi-million dollar bonuses every year) which means that working people are without jobs and it just feels like going into a glorified McDonald's... and I already work for McDonald's (and do not put the "food" there into my body whatsoever).

I'm wondering what else I like is going to change as this area becomes an unrecognizable shithole. What other places I like are going to change or close. So far we've lost Sonny's BBQ, Jason's Deli, and TGIFriday's although none of those places were really places that I liked all that much. I'm wondering how one of my favorite diner's is holding up even though I have not been there since before the start of "ThE nEw NoRmAL". I also wonder how long my favorite record stores are going to be able to hold on for, even though I shop there on a weekly basis.

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So thanks to my only skill set which is financial analysis, I've worked out my wife's spending habits will have bankrupted us as early as 2026 judging by current spending trends which is over $16,000 more than we earn per annum. 

 

Best case scenario is interest rates stay low for 15 years and we eek it out to 2045 by juggling credit cards other loans and home loan refinancing at which point we retire and go bankrupt and are effectively homeless.  Even if we don't retire (despite being well into our 60s) we go bankrupt under the weight of debt even with low interest rates.

Spending my dying days in abject poverty is currently very much likely if I don't die first - which given I now experience endemic anxiety, chest pain and high blood pressure due to the situation.

 

She wants to draw money from home loan to do upgrades to over expensive house.  I told her by this time next year, we're drawing on the house to keep the lights on and put on food on the table.

She wants to financially help the kid out when she is old enough to go to uni and drive a car.  Assuming our credit rating is good enough, we can only do that by taking on more debt.

Wife wants kid to get house.  I told her the bank will get house - that's as much a given as the sun will rise each morning.

 

She didn't even want to discuss it and she will review my spreadsheets on Friday night when incidentally I am not at home...,

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2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

So thanks to my only skill set which is financial analysis, I've worked out my wife's spending habits will have bankrupted us as early as 2026 judging by current spending trends which is over $16,000 more than we earn per annum.

Oh dear.... This is gonna end in tears. No matter what happens, it sounds like you have some dramatic days ahead of you.

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6 hours ago, Dead1 said:

So thanks to my only skill set which is financial analysis, I've worked out my wife's spending habits will have bankrupted us as early as 2026 judging by current spending trends which is over $16,000 more than we earn per annum. 

There should be (probably is - costing more $$) counselling for this kind of thing. Some people just don't get the concept of living within their means. 

In my house it is my wife that does the spreadsheet. I don't usually want to hear about it either, but that is because I don't buy much at all so I know I am comfortably in the black. That said, she recently did force me to work out my bare minimum monthly outgoings (mortgage, power, internet, gym....services add up, food) and it was a bit higher than I realised.

It's always higher than you realise.

Just take solace from the fact that your daughter will be living in a mad max wasteland by 2045 so the bank owning your house won't matter much. All due to every other cunt in the world living beyond their means.

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I think almost everyone understands the concept of living within their means, a lot if them just don't think it should apply to them. Because they want stuff. And it's not just women, although I'm sure most of us dudes who've been married have stories about their wives' exorbitant spending habits. People want stuff and they don't feel they should be denied or have to go without things that they want. That's just the way the world is now and why so many find themselves with escalating credit card debt. I don't know very many people with adequate savings to last throughout their old age.

And that includes me, but at least I don't have any debt, no credit cards, no mortgage, no car loan. I do try to live within my means but that's not enough. Figure I'll need $50k anually for the boy and me to live a modest but comfortable lifestyle into my old age. I'm 60 now so if I live to be 80 that means we'll need a million dollars. I don't have that much saved unfortunately so I'll need to generate an ongoing income stream into my old age. Kid'll be 8 in two months, so I'm hoping by the time he's 28 he'll be on his own two feet if not sooner. Because of course there's no guarantee I'll live to be 80. My dad died at 72. His dad died at 67. But then his mom lived to be 98 so you just never know.

I think the hardest part for people in their late 40's and early 50's is the realization that their parents are getting on and are going to start needing help. Meanwhile their kids are usually still teens or in college/uni or whatever and still need support as well. It's a lot of pressure taking care of everyone across 3 generations while trying to keep your head above water financially. And then so many women file for divorce around this point and the courts then place an added financial burden on their former partners. It's really no mystery why men typically don't live as long as women. 

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Not sure what it's like in other countries but one of our issues in Oz is that schools don't teach anything about money, life and how the two intertwine.

I'm not suggesting it's all up to schools, parents should be the main ones teach their kids the value of a dollar, but when I went to school we did things like budgeting and how to track money. It wasn't a year long course, or any special subject, it was simply part of advanced maths but these days all kids get is sums where money is mentioned.

I don't think all school kids need to learn accounting or how to invest, there is advanced courses for that, but the basics of spending within your means, tracking expenditure, how banks operate and how loans need to be serviced, would be easy to add into the curriculum. We'd still have problems in the future, we'd still have people who miss manage their money and we'd still have people who get into hardship where all plans get thrown out the window, but the numbers would be less.

However many just aren't interested, living on credit, living with pay day loans and having everything today is just the way some people want to live.

 

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1 hour ago, KillaKukumba said:

Not sure what it's like in other countries but one of our issues in Oz is that schools don't teach anything about money, life and how the two intertwine.

I'm not suggesting it's all up to schools, parents should be the main ones teach their kids the value of a dollar, but when I went to school we did things like budgeting and how to track money. It wasn't a year long course, or any special subject, it was simply part of advanced maths but these days all kids get is sums where money is mentioned.

I don't think all school kids need to learn accounting or how to invest, there is advanced courses for that, but the basics of spending within your means, tracking expenditure, how banks operate and how loans need to be serviced, would be easy to add into the curriculum. We'd still have problems in the future, we'd still have people who miss manage their money and we'd still have people who get into hardship where all plans get thrown out the window, but the numbers would be less.

However many just aren't interested, living on credit, living with pay day loans and having everything today is just the way some people want to live.

 

 

Totally agree with this post.  I've known so many people who bankrupted themselves despite having decent jobs.  I know 3 couples who couldn't afford their homes despite being on reasonable income.  In all 3 instances they sold up and went to rent.  But when you look at their spending habits you can see why - latest $1500 iPhone instead of a $250 Samsung, top clothing brands, expensive cars, thousands spent on useless trinkets.  Even knew one lady who did not want to dry her clothes outside or on a clothes rack and incurred thousands of dollars in electricity bills by using a dryer and then would cry how she couldn't afford to pay her power bill.

I've known quite a few people who use one credit card to pay off another.  And even more who do things like go on holidays on their credit card.

My own parents bankrupted in the 1980s and then mismanaged whatever money they got since.

 

I've even known university educated people who didn't understand the concept of interest rates or understand that at some point honeymoon period on their home loan finishes and they start to pay full amount.

 

 

 

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Credit cards in our household are taken out with low limits (I have lost count how many times I have declined the bank increasing the limit because my credit score permits) and I always go with the rule of never having above 50% of the balance limit to repay.  I am fortunate that my job pays commission so if I do my job well I have means to clear the cards a couple of times a year.

No loans, no mortgage (we rent) and no real extravagance at the minute.  Just working hard and enjoying the rewards without being silly with it.  No guarantees it will always be like this but with no kids we are better off for it.

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