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58 minutes ago, Vampyrique said:

I'm in the same boat, navigating the waters without a moral compass. I can't stay faithful to one book. Too many temptations. I hear the call of Cthulhu sounding from below or else above from somewhere on my bookshelf...  

 

I think you should consider both sides of the argument before you jump aboard a diet fueled by a somewhat radical ideology. You need to understand that a vegan's priorities are in this order: the health and well-being of other animals, followed by the health and well-being of you. It isn't uncommon for vegans to end up in the hospital or waste away due to well-known nutrient deficiencies, protein insufficiency, and numerous problems from eating a diet high in greens, grains, legumes and soy etc.  I don't think I need to going into any real detail because it's well documented. Unless you really value feeling better psychologically by consuming an inferior diet which can only be offset by incredibly meticulous meal and nutrition planning, you may find it to be a difficult struggle in the long term. 

Plus, unless you are growing all of your food in your own garden, I don't think you can really verify that animals aren't being harmed or that their habitats aren't being destroyed by mass agricultural/farming operations and methods.

Don't let vegans fool you into thinking that all protein is created equally. Powdered protein isn't as good as the real thing, nor is the amino acid profile of protein the same amongst all foods. Avoiding eggs (the highest quality protein) is just silly idealism, and beef gelatin is incredibly healthy due to its high content of glycine, proline, and alanine, which can actually compliment the comparatively less favourable amino acid profile of, say, a steak (if you only ever eat the same cuts of meat).

Yes that's true, some vegans fail to recognise that you need certain vitamins and minerals (which btw are all present in plants you just need to actually eat them). I think though that we're past the point where that's a fair generalisation. It's true that meat is the only source of complete protein, that means that you need two or more plants in a meal to replace that complete protein. I.e instead of eating a steak (complete protein) you would need rice + lentils/chick peas for the same effect. Veganism isn't a radical view, it is made out to be that way by corporations because they make more money if people consume animal products. Let me ask you this: if animal products are so healthy why does the American health organisation consider smoking and meat to be type 1 carcinogens. Why has the Canadian health organisation just removed dairy from their food pyramid (the "always foods"? Because these things are unhealthy. I'm like you, I never thought I'd even entertain the idea of going vegan. Then I saw this video (along with a ton of material by youtuber EarthlingEd)

 

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1 hour ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Yes that's true, some vegans fail to recognise that you need certain vitamins and minerals (which btw are all present in plants you just need to actually eat them). I think though that we're past the point where that's a fair generalisation. It's true that meat is the only source of complete protein, that means that you need two or more plants in a meal to replace that complete protein. I.e instead of eating a steak (complete protein) you would need rice + lentils/chick peas for the same effect. Veganism isn't a radical view, it is made out to be that way by corporations because they make more money if people consume animal products. Let me ask you this: if animal products are so healthy why does the American health organisation consider smoking and meat to be type 1 carcinogens. Why has the Canadian health organisation just removed dairy from their food pyramid (the "always foods"? Because these things are unhealthy. I'm like you, I never thought I'd even entertain the idea of going vegan. Then I saw this video (along with a ton of material by youtuber EarthlingEd)

 

 

Eating isn't just about getting nutrients though. You need to think about the health of your whole body and its relation to diet, which includes thyroid health, hormones, metabolism, liver health, stress etc, regardless of whatever the makeup of your diet is. I'm not advocating a high-meat diet, but I think a good diet should include meat at least once or twice a day. Part of the reason why I think veganism is radical is because it is firstly a diet whose priority isn't health first, and it is typically tied into political movements. I understand the moral issue that vegans have but realize that you are emphasizing this over your own health. I think ethical issues are a factor in every industry (pesticides, contamination etc). 

The methods of how you consume foods is important. Whether you boil, steam or eat vegetables raw makes a difference health-wise, in terms of digestibility, nutrient availability, as well as exposure to toxic anti-nutrients. But consider researching the health problems commonly associated with foods that vegans typically consume because there are many with respect to lentils and beans, nuts and seeds, grains, veggies, soy etc. But there's pros and cons to every food group.

I can't say I've thought the food pyramid or was anything but an obvious attempt to get people to support eating foods from each major industry so I've never taken it seriously. I think it's always best to do your own research before trusting any organization who may simply have an agenda to push. There's propaganda on all sides. Regarding meat and carcinogens, I'm guessing it is the methods used to cure meat, or cook meat which can be an issue especially for those who routinely use the BBQ.

You can go vegan if you want, but I recommend you do your own research, and do more than watching a few videos from one side. I'm sure you'll get a temporary benefit in so far as a break from digesting meats and dairy, but you could also get this from occasional fasting and/or not over-eating via huge meals. But if you do go vegan, pay close attention to how your body is reacting otherwise you can ruin your health as so many have. 

 

 

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All of those health factors are important when considering a diet. I think the idea that veganism is somehow promoting the idea that animals are more important then our own health is wrong. Again this is something put forward by corporations who have a vested interest in ensuring people don't question whether it's right to eat animals. As I said above there's an incredible amount of research out there which shows just how unhealthy animal products are. Yes going vegan does require more planning of your meals to make sure you get all the essential vitamins and minerals needed to keep the body healthy. Yes it does necessitate a vitamin B12 supplement (one of three vitamins we miss out on by not consuming animal products). Did you know that a study was recently undertaken comparing a vegan diet and non-vegan diet across a sample size of 2000 people. It found that the average vegan is deficient in three vitamins though only vitamin B12 is of significant note. The average non-vegan however was found deficient in 9 vitamins. There are also numerous studies showing the links between animal products and heart disease. Like I said before I've done my own research. I'm not going to push my newfound views on anyone but if someone says something which simply isn't true I'm going to step in. It's not that animals are more important, simply that no animal should have to suffer and die when it isn't necessary. Is veganism perfect? No of course not, I can't know for sure that no animals were harmed for the food to reach my plate but if I eat animal products I know something has had to suffer and die just so I can get 15 minutes of pleasure.

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4 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

All of those health factors are important when considering a diet. I think the idea that veganism is somehow promoting the idea that animals are more important then our own health is wrong. Again this is something put forward by corporations who have a vested interest in ensuring people don't question whether it's right to eat animals. As I said above there's an incredible amount of research out there which shows just how unhealthy animal products are. Yes going vegan does require more planning of your meals to make sure you get all the essential vitamins and minerals needed to keep the body healthy. Yes it does necessitate a vitamin B12 supplement (one of three vitamins we miss out on by not consuming animal products). Did you know that a study was recently undertaken comparing a vegan diet and non-vegan diet across a sample size of 2000 people. It found that the average vegan is deficient in three vitamins though only vitamin B12 is of significant note. The average non-vegan however was found deficient in 9 vitamins. There are also numerous studies showing the links between animal products and heart disease. Like I said before I've done my own research. I'm not going to push my newfound views on anyone but if someone says something which simply isn't true I'm going to step in. It's not that animals are more important, simply that no animal should have to suffer and die when it isn't necessary. Is veganism perfect? No of course not, I can't know for sure that no animals were harmed for the food to reach my plate but if I eat animal products I know something has had to suffer and die just so I can get 15 minutes of pleasure.

With studies, it depends on what is truly being compared and meant by a vegan diet, or what is meant by an average person's diet (which I generally wouldn't say is healthy), or what is meant by a typical meat eater's diet. 

For example, are you referring to a diet that includes meat in the form of grass-fed steaks, oysters, and beef liver, or a diet that includes Big Macs and hotdogs? Just like when a person says a vegan diet, I'm sure they don't mean potato chips, candy and Coca-Cola.  

But I understand what you're saying. I'm not trying to convince you to eat animals products, only that I think you should just be cautious in the long-term. You can always try it and see how your body reacts, which I think is the best indicator of your own health. 

 

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1 hour ago, Vampyrique said:

With studies, it depends on what is truly being compared and meant by a vegan diet, or what is meant by an average person's diet (which I generally wouldn't say is healthy), or what is meant by a typical meat eater's diet. 

For example, are you referring to a diet that includes meat in the form of grass-fed steaks, oysters, and beef liver, or a diet that includes Big Macs and hotdogs? Just like when a person says a vegan diet, I'm sure they don't mean potato chips, candy and Coca-Cola.  

But I understand what you're saying. I'm not trying to convince you to eat animals products, only that I think you should just be cautious in the long-term. You can always try it and see how your body reacts, which I think is the best indicator of your own health. 

 

That study factored in 4 different diets, whole-food plant based, processed vegan, whole food omnivorous, and processed omnivorous. Oxford university carried out this study over 10 years. Near Okinawa, Japan is a place with the highest life expectancy on the planet and their diet is whole-food plant based. Sure there are unhealthy vegans just like with the average diet. I'm not going to be one of those because I've done my research, I know what supplements I may need to take down the line and I also know the long-term health benefits. Oh and the vegan burritos I made for dinner were amazing!

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On 3/3/2019 at 9:17 PM, RelentlessOblivion said:

That study factored in 4 different diets, whole-food plant based, processed vegan, whole food omnivorous, and processed omnivorous. Oxford university carried out this study over 10 years. Near Okinawa, Japan is a place with the highest life expectancy on the planet and their diet is whole-food plant based. Sure there are unhealthy vegans just like with the average diet. I'm not going to be one of those because I've done my research, I know what supplements I may need to take down the line and I also know the long-term health benefits. Oh and the vegan burritos I made for dinner were amazing!

"That is not tasty which may meatless lie, and with strange diets even Okinawans may die" HP (Sauce) Lovechops. (Fixed your signature). 

On my mind at the moment is this infernal cold that is currently plaguing my respiratory system, rendering sleep elusive and my only chance of rest, a grave. 

 

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"That is not tasty which may meatless lie, and with strange diets even Okinawans may die" HP (Sauce) Lovechops. (Fixed your signature). 
On my mind at the moment is this infernal cold that is currently plaguing my respiratory system, rendering sleep elusive and my only chance of rest, a grave. 
 


Nothing a stiff Whiskey won’t fix.

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On 3/5/2019 at 6:24 AM, Requiem said:

"That is not tasty which may meatless lie, and with strange diets even Okinawans may die" HP (Sauce) Lovechops. (Fixed your signature). 

On my mind at the moment is this infernal cold that is currently plaguing my respiratory system, rendering sleep elusive and my only chance of rest, a grave. 

 

Whilst not exactly true I've ended my flirt with veganism. I brought the curse of Cthulhu upon myself, also Roast chicken is too delicious to miss out on. I am, however, dropping all processed foods (including bacon) and refined sugars (which since I don't put sugar in my coffee is easy enough). Also today fucking sucked so I plan to get well and truly plastered in hopes of erasing it from my memory.

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22 hours ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Whilst not exactly true I've ended my flirt with veganism. I brought the curse of Cthulhu upon myself, also Roast chicken is too delicious to miss out on. I am, however, dropping all processed foods (including bacon) and refined sugars (which since I don't put sugar in my coffee is easy enough). Also today fucking sucked so I plan to get well and truly plastered in hopes of erasing it from my memory.

Chicken is usually the kryptonite to vegan ethics. Sometimes bacon. I've seen it happen before many times, but it's understandable. It requires some serious mind-over-matter monk magic to deny taste and choose broccoli over bacon, or celery over chicken. 

What are your thoughts on lab-grown meat? With heavy promotion, I can picture this being a hit with vegetarians/vegans in the future with regards to the sustainability and ethical concerns they have.   

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25 minutes ago, Vampyrique said:

Chicken is usually the kryptonite to vegan ethics. Sometimes bacon. I've seen it happen before many times, but it's understandable. It requires some serious mind-over-matter monk magic to deny taste and choose broccoli over bacon, or celery over chicken. 

What are your thoughts on lab-grown meat? With heavy promotion, I can picture this being a hit with vegetarians/vegans in the future with regards to the sustainability and ethical concerns they have.   

Wouldn't they find lab grown meat anathema? Lab grown, farm grown, what's the difference except that one is a creepy enigma... I think vegans would spend an eternity looking for an alternative or four. 

On my mind is that the family has gone down the beach house for the long weekend as the school for young vampires has a student free day tomorrow so the Mistress of the Dark has ghosted the baby blonde bloodsuckers away in the dead of night, leaving Castle Requiem empty but for one lonely lost forgotten spirit and the thunderous resonance of arcane and occult metal. 

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22 minutes ago, Requiem said:

Wouldn't they find lab grown meat anathema? Lab grown, farm grown, what's the difference except that one is a creepy enigma... I think vegans would spend an eternity looking for an alternative or four. 

On my mind is that the family has gone down the beach house for the long weekend as the school for young vampires has a student free day tomorrow so the Mistress of the Dark has ghosted the baby blonde bloodsuckers away in the dead of night, leaving Castle Requiem empty but for one lonely lost forgotten spirit and the thunderous resonance of arcane and occult metal. 

I'm sure social media trending will wash the masses anew. But the future looks dim, dystopian already. GMOs will be the only 'viable' food source. Just wait for the propaganda. And how about meat plants? Like plants that grow meat. They'll have those too, I'm sure of it. Just so people can feel good about eating fake food.

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6 minutes ago, Vampyrique said:

I'm sure social media trending will wash the masses anew. But the future looks dim, dystopian already. GMOs will be the only 'viable' food source. Just wait for the propaganda. And how about meat plants? Like plants that grow meat. They'll have those too, I'm sure of it. Just so people can feel good about eating fake food.

Is any of this a good thing or a bad thing? Tell me Vampyrique, so that I may learn and understand. How do I make sense of the 21st century? 

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25 minutes ago, Requiem said:

Is any of this a good thing or a bad thing? Tell me Vampyrique, so that I may learn and understand. How do I make sense of the 21st century? 

Sadly, the future we're entering won't include any molokos. 

But Huxley now, he knew the plan. He created the blueprint and opened the doors of perception. It's a brave new world after all.

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1 hour ago, Vampyrique said:

Chicken is usually the kryptonite to vegan ethics. Sometimes bacon. I've seen it happen before many times, but it's understandable. It requires some serious mind-over-matter monk magic to deny taste and choose broccoli over bacon, or celery over chicken. 

What are your thoughts on lab-grown meat? With heavy promotion, I can picture this being a hit with vegetarians/vegans in the future with regards to the sustainability and ethical concerns they have.   

I think the ordinary vegan/vegetarian might consider it but then again lab-grown meat is likely going to be highly processed and so those making the move for the health benefits (which are real) will still favour a whole-food plant based diet. Taste is a factor but I can make some phenomenal tasting meals that are vegan i.e. my eggplant curry.

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51 minutes ago, Vampyrique said:

Sadly, the future we're entering won't include any molokos. 

But Huxley now, he knew the plan. He created the blueprint and opened the doors of perception. It's a brave new world after all.

We're all going to have to take trains to the country to play sport? Damn.... 

Also, did you read the 'code' in a previous recent post I've made in this thread? It went unacknowledged and I thrive on validation. 

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Wouldn't they find lab grown meat anathema? Lab grown, farm grown, what's the difference except that one is a creepy enigma... I think vegans would spend an eternity looking for an alternative or four. 
On my mind is that the family has gone down the beach house for the long weekend as the school for young vampires has a student free day tomorrow so the Mistress of the Dark has ghosted the baby blonde bloodsuckers away in the dead of night, leaving Castle Requiem empty but for one lonely lost forgotten spirit and the thunderous resonance of arcane and occult metal. 



Ha ha. The Cavanagh brothers would be proud.

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58 minutes ago, Requiem said:

We're all going to have to take trains to the country to play sport? Damn.... 

Also, did you read the 'code' in a previous recent post I've made in this thread? It went unacknowledged and I thrive on validation. 

Code missed. Validation invalidated.

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See Vamps I'm not so sure about Huxley. We're far more likely to wind up in an Orwellian world (see 1984 for details). One thing we can all agree on though is that humanity has gotten things very wrong as of late.

 

Anyway on my mind is the great tragedy that befalls many modern bands: writing one kickass song which pops up on a playlist or metal radio station only for the bulk of their wormmk to sound nothing like that song. Instead they just write generic retro thrash/heavy metal/wh butatever else is trending at the time or sound like (insert band here) worship. Never was this more disappointing then with Australian band Dungeon whose song Galipoli was a rollicking power/thrash belter but whose other work sounds like generic Priest worshipping retro heavy metal.

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18 hours ago, True Belief said:


Ha ha. The Cavanagh brothers would be proud.

 

 

No one understands me like you, brother. 

On my mind right now is to get to the pub for dinner and a few pints, British style. 

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1 hour ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

Thanks Req now I'm reminded that I have no beer in the fridge, no whiskey on the shelf, and no bottle shop within walking distance...

You're in hell right now.

I came home from the blood bank yesterday to find that the Countess (of dark and demonic debauchery) had left five bottles of white in the fridge and two bottles of red on the bench before leaving for coastal climes.

I'm pretty sure she doesn't intend for me to finish them off in one grand weekend swill, but I'm at least stocked up for the short term and am 'having at it' as they say. 

 

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