What's on your mind?

[Midi]

Happy birthday! Some interesting questions about evolution came to mind during my cigaretty pondering. Time to pick up a pen...

[FatherAlabaster]

Happy birthday! Some interesting questions about evolution came to mind during my cigaretty pondering. Time to pick up a pen...

Like what?

[Midi]

Like what?

For example, evolution taught us the creatures most adapted to their environment had bigger chances of survival and evolved further. I have always believed every living creature always has an unchangable 'prime psychological core', I don't know how to put it well. You could call it instinct, I guess? Well, what I was wondering was for example whether the instinct would evolve with them, or whether it stays the same.

[BlutAusNerd]

I think Fry And Laurie is on Netflix' date=' or you may be able to find some on Youtube. Maybe I can post some clips when the forum stops acting up. I love Monty Python! My favorite is The Meaning Of Life.[/quote'] My favorite Monty Python as well. Sent from my HTC PH39100 using Tapatalk 2

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

I love Meaning Of Life and Holy Grail. Every sperm is sacred! Every sperm is good...

[deathstorm]

Thanks guys

[H34VYM3T4LD4V3]

Oh yeah Happy Birthday John! hope you enjoy yourself, got any plans?

[deathstorm]

Dave thanks. Tl may upgrade my ps3 to ps4 going out to dinner maybe raceway park Wednesday night to see bigfoot and robosaurus

[MorwenKY]

Oh Happy Birthday deathstorm!

[Ghouly]

Hey John happy birthday!

[Frostaudn]

Seems to be that are a lot of people I know are born in july! Which is ofcourse the best month of the year Within four days, it's also my birthday

[FatherAlabaster]

For example' date=' evolution taught us the creatures most adapted to their environment had bigger chances of survival and evolved further. I have always believed every living creature always has an unchangable 'prime psychological core', I don't know how to put it well. You could call it instinct, I guess? Well, what I was wondering was for example whether the instinct would evolve with them, or whether it stays the same.[/quote'] Wow... sounds like essentialism. I'm not surprised you've always believed that, seeing how influential Plato was. I don't think evolution precludes there being something like that, but it certainly doesn't require it and doesn't suggest it in any way. In my view, it argues against that notion; life is in a state of constant flux, in response to a constantly changing environment, as well as through sexual recombination (some would call the whirlwind of sexual recombination a constantly changing "environment" for our genes). In the case of instincts, they're evolved behaviors, and they certainly do change. Beavers evolved from things that didn't build dams, bees evolved from things that didn't make honeycombs, and we evolved from things that didn't talk or walk upright. More fundamentally, in the case of bees, beavers, and us, we all evolved from the same thing, at some point in our history, which is one of the most important lessons of evolution in my opinion.

[deathstorm]

Thanks guys

[Midi]

Wow... sounds like essentialism. I'm not surprised you've always believed that' date=' seeing how influential Plato was. I don't think evolution precludes there being something like that, but it certainly doesn't require it and doesn't suggest it in any way. In my view, it argues against that notion; life is in a state of constant flux, in response to a constantly changing environment, as well as through sexual recombination (some would call the whirlwind of sexual recombination a constantly changing "environment" for our genes). In the case of instincts, they're evolved behaviors, and they certainly do change. Beavers evolved from things that didn't build dams, bees evolved from things that didn't make honeycombs, and we evolved from things that didn't talk or walk upright. More fundamentally, in the case of bees, beavers, and us, we all evolved from the same thing, at some point in our history, which is one of the most fundamental lessons of evolution in my opinion.[/quote'] First of all, thanks! Now I recall I should finally ask my copy of Plato's book back... I haven't really read Plato yet though... I don't know whether instincts are evolved behaviors. I would call 'instinct' the reflex that triggers behaviors. In my view 'instinct' would be a comprehensive term which would include behavior and basically everything

[Frostaudn]

As if there weren't already enough of great bands touring Europe these fall, Ulcerate confirmed also a show in the Netherlands (well not one, but four, altough one is pretty close to me).

[Iceni]

You live in a country that's about three meters wide. They're all close to you.

[Frostaudn]

You live in a country that's about three meters wide. They're all close to you.

Wouldn't call three hours traveling close, haha.

[RelentlessOblivion]

As if there weren't already enough of great bands touring Europe these fall' date=' Ulcerate confirmed also a show in the Netherlands (well not one, but four, altough one is pretty close to me).[/quote'] In my view instinct is learned. I support FA's view that evolution is constant and not predicated by any one factor. I also believe that evolution is not manifested in a purely physiological form. The evolution of the mind is also constant as we grow from infant to adult. That is why I feel instinct is learned as opposed to simply being ever present from birth.

[Iceni]

Wouldn't call three hours traveling close' date=' haha.[/quote'] What, are you traveling on the back of a leprous tortoise?

[mindy6158]

umm.......... [ATTACH=CONFIG]1295[/ATTACH] christmas is coming up mamaw..............

[RelentlessOblivion]

What' date=' are you traveling on the back of a leprous tortoise?[/quote'] Must be I mean it's less than a day's drive from Edinburgh to Paris and that includes the channel crossing train.

[FatherAlabaster]

First of all, thanks! Now I recall I should finally ask my copy of Plato's book back... I haven't really read Plato yet though... I don't know whether instincts are evolved behaviors. I would call 'instinct' the reflex that triggers behaviors. In my view 'instinct' would be a comprehensive term which would include behavior and basically everything

You can't have it all ways at once... (and this goes out to Relentless, too). An instinct is an innate response to a stimulus, like blinking, for instance - what I'd consider an evolved behavior by definition. I'm using "instinct" to differentiate from learned behavior - styles of tool use among primates, or speaking French instead of Greek, are examples of learned behaviors. I just read parts of a study on Galapagos woodpecker finches that concluded that, while they were more likely to develop tool use if sticks were made available to them during a certain developmental period, they weren't more likely to develop it based on exposure to a role model, and they showed no tendency towards learning specific alternate methods. In other words, their development of the ability to use sticks wasn't cultural; it was a genetic predisposition towards acquiring skills within a certain timeframe (adults didn't pick up the skill), kind of like our much-noted difficulty in learning foreign languages after childhood, or the way our brain will ignore input from a functional eye if it's covered during a crucial period (which I recall isn't the case with some other animals, whose visual development isn't affected in that way). Their learning was a process of refinement by trial and error; their ability to learn, within a certain developmental period, was natural. I'm bringing this up to define "instinct" and to help illustrate that the term includes more behaviors than is typically thought. You (Midi) seem to be talking about the motivations underlying our behaviors, while Relentless is talking about learned behaviors. Different instincts (for instance, sexual readiness, or my protectiveness towards my child) may manifest as behaviors at different times in our development; but just because they weren't behaviorally apparent when we were toddlers, that doesn't automatically mean they're "learned" behaviors. As far as the motivations underlying our behaviors ("goals", we say in English ), it's a great question and it's been the subject of a lot of speculation. Avoid the temptation to be reductive here; our social and physical environments are very complex, and it's not always clear what constitutes "fitness" within those environments - appearance, strength, choice of pursuits, reputation, skill, amiability, wealth, etc. The fact that our genes build bodies which "should" mimic, and capitalize on, the reproductive successes of our ancestors doesn't mean that our "basic nature" is to go out and breed indiscriminately, Iceni's anecdotal observations to the contrary [insert appropriate smiley]. If "fitness" - the ability to have a successful mating and raise your offspring to mating age - has meant that your ancestors were able to navigate their social environment well enough to attract a mate and form a stable relationship, then the ability (and desire) to learn those behaviors is part of your "basic nature" as well. The existence of love between human mates (and attachments that look suspiciously like love in other animals) is strong evidence that family structure has been a good strategy for long-term reproductive success. I favor the view that the biological function of emotions is to provide goals, as opposed to the tired dichotomy between "emotion" and "reason" - basically, the "reason" that we have emotions is to have reasons for doing things. I'd point you towards books by Stephen Pinker and Daniel Dennett. The guy I really want to read is E.O. Wilson, I haven't gotten to his books yet. But applying evolutionary theory to various features of our consciousness has been a productive endeavor for a while, in any case.

[RelentlessOblivion]

Well my theory is shot to pieces. This is why I'm studying law and not psychology, biology, or anything else that requires analysis as opposed to a rigid application of set rules.

[Midi]

Hm, are you saying creatures, such as the Galapagos woodpecker finches, humans and probably much more if not all creatures, have an inherent ability to acquire certain skills through practice and that those skills are natural since the ability to learn them has always been present? The motivations underlying our behaviors... This is a concept I've thought quite a bit about. It's interesting to say emotions are the trigger element in achieving or making goals, I hadn't thought of that yet. My view on this probably contradicts a lot of known factors, but it's something I came to after thinking about it and I've been believing for quite some time now. I believe the mind on itself is without any flaws and in perfect unity. However, by external factors (the body, the environment, etc.) it's brought out of balance and searches to restore that balance as well as possible. I believe all emotions and all actions, which occur on a conscious level, are a result of an attempt to restore that balance as well as possible.

[RelentlessOblivion]

I'm owed for 1 concussion, 1 fractured cheekbone, 2 surgeries and whiplash. The time has now come for me to collect on that debt. Not even God can save any who are so foolish as to stand in my way.