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34 minutes ago, Thatguy said:

I think yer problem is not so much with Australia as with the modern world, but all the best anyway.

In many ways you are right.  I do despise modern consumerism.  I did even as a youth. 

But I have never felt Australian.  I was raised a Yugoslav in a migrant suburb of Sydney where there was virtually no white kids in my school.  The place was culturally about as Australian as Manilla or New Delhi or Beirut or Suva are.  So my interaction with Anglo-Australians between 1982 and 1988 was 0 (1988 we move to Tasmania where I first really get to interact with Anglo-Australians).   I then spent another 2 years in Yugoslavia between 1989 and 1991.  

So I was always the outsider here.  I tried to integrate but I don't fit in.   And as Australia changes into this plastic vapid consumer culture, I fit in less and less.

 

The average Australian never talks anything meaningful.  Aussie men communicate in either stats on sports or equipment like cars or power tools or in little jabs at each other.  Most come across as moronic buffoons.  Aussie women are more capable at interesting conversations than men but even here it does often come across talk about shopping.  

Come election time and they just repeat mindless clichés ("such and such minister made a mess of it") and robotically repeat whatever slogan they like.

And the aspects of Australia I liked and could relate to (eg old egalitarianism, avoidance of gratuitous displays of consumption and quiet professionalism) are disappearing.   

 

Yes I understand Europe is not all silver lining.  They have big issues there too.

But Europe is still far more equal than Australian (https://data.oecd.org/inequality/income-inequality.htm).

Europeans certainly don't do the gigantic consumerist dick waving - no flashy utilities or large McMansions or multi-thousand dollar mountain bikes.   In Australia everything is consumption - spend, spend, spend.  I was actually in France and Croatia for Easter some years ago and there was no gluttony involving chocolate eggs.  Instead it was respectful observance  for those who are Christian (I'm an atheist by the way).

Europe's doing far more to protect environment than Australia.  Australians don't want to do anything to change their ways to be more sustainable and their government does not do anything to implement meaningful change.

Europeans also care about politics and will take a stand for what they believe in unlike Australians.  Australians generally quietly take whatever their government dishes out to them.  It's why for example industrial action is now rare compared to 1970s and 1980s even when government is actively screwing workers over (eg reduction in penalties for hospitality workers).

And when I talk to Europeans and Americans I can engage in intellectually stimulating discussions and wax lyrical in ways I can't with most Australians.  

And the history, culture and architecture of Europe is amazing.  Here in Australia we demolish anything of value to put up more apartments (what Americans call condos).  The art is generally shit.  And what little real history exists in Australia is pissed on via revisionism to make it more woke or turned into a mindless cliché without meaning.

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Dead's vivid depiction of Australian society also perfectly describes Canada to a T. And like him, I'd leave if I could, though I'm less optimistic that there are significantly greener pastures out there. Our options seem to be...

A.) Neoliberal hellscape or some toned downed version of it (European Social Democracy)

B.) Islamic Theocracy

or...

C.) Whatever the fuck China is supposed to be.

At least Canada has lots of fresh water (for now...)

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Gonna vent here because this is a relatively safe spot to do so. Living/caring for someone with chronic mental health issues and disabilities is an untenable burden for the average person. There are no resources. Nursing homes/Assisted living places will not take people like this. There is no one to go to for help. There are no options for families when the I'll person doesn't want help but can't care for themselves. Over the past year, I've come to completely understand how people end up in abusive situations, or homeless, or dead. The state doesn't care. Friends and coworkers offer "thoughts & prayers" but that doesn't actually help anyone. Sure I'm worried about my family here, but we're not unique or special. This happens everywhere no matter the country or financial bracket. Could be going on right next door to you. Your neighbor's kid. The little old lady down the street. Your coworker's mother in law... No matter who, the situation remains the same. There is no help or outlet (if you're ethical anyway). I've found myself in the past year plotting murder (yeah don't worry not seriously) or at least an unfortunate accident, calculating how damaging to my wife it would be to cut this person adrift and let them try to manage (it's her biological mother), begging for help from every agency I can come up with, being held captive in my own home to the whims of a violent and disturbed elderly woman who has tried to kill family members in the past to include my wife, and generally fostering an outright hatred for someone I used to love. Yeah, it's brutal, but it's real life. The sort of shit average people don't care about unless it happens to them and politicians only talk about when something horrible happens. Nothing actually gets done and nothing will. We just sit and wait until somebody snaps or dies. Or both. Watch the news story and move on with our lives. Meanwhile, lives are ruined because it's nobody's priority to fix.

I should say that I'm especially well equipped to deal with this. I'm a nurse. Have been for decades. I have training on how to handle these people. We have financial resources. Not wealthy by any stretch, but at least enough to manage. If I'm having this much trouble, what about the average person without training or financial resources? Who or where do they turn? To abuse, forced homelessness, or worse.

I would and do blame my wife's adopted parents (her grandparents) because they just left us to deal with the situation when they died. No plans, no clear picture of just how bad it really was. Nada. At the same time, what were they going to do as they faced the same issues we're constantly running in to? I think they just hoped she died first which unfortunately didn't happen. They were born in the 30's and came from a time when this stuff was taboo to discuss or even acknowledge. So despite my attempts to bring it up over the years, nothing was ever put in place. I still blame them and will until I leave this mortal coil, but I do understand.

Ok, that's it. Just had to get that off my chest. If anyone has a place to crash in a country without extradition treaties, hit me up. Or easy access to GHB. Or whatever Putler's special tea concoction is. Just kidding.

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Navy sounds like an absolutely fucked situation.

I have known people who have had similar burdens (including one whose son was an extremely violent highly autistic kid)  and you can see how mentally draining it is on them.  They seem sapped of life.  

We've actually had such patients in our acute mental health inpatient unit simply because there is nowhere else for them to go and the families can no longer cope with the levels of abuse and violence.

I work in mental health administration and from what I hear from mental health practitioners is that they threw the baby out with the bath water when they shut down asylums and sanitoriums.

They even shut down our local dementia long stay unit - it's now backpacker's accommodation.

Some people need that level of institutionalised care.   It is bullshit to expect families to be torn asunder to look after one heavily disabled and violent family member.

 

 

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Jeez, Navy, I'm so sorry your're having to deal with this. My Dad had Alzheimer's and it could have been bad, but my Mom was able to get them to qualify for a retirement community -one of those country club like facilities that take you to the end with nursing care. They got in pretty young-based on my Mom's health, now in her mid 80's Mom's been a vegetarian since the late 70, did yoga for years, barely drinks, doesn't smoke. Freaking healthy woman. They made it primarily because my Dad had a good federal pension and they sold their half mil home after it was paid off. Even still it was very difficult. He became hostile towards me which was quite the experience. He passed away quickly once his health started to deteriorate leaving my Mom with a good savings.

I've often felt we just don't have an appropriate system to care for our elderly. So sad. Again, sorry to read your post. 

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Yeah thanks guys. It's frustrating. Home care or LTC isn't really an option even if money wasn't a problem. The second you mention mental health issues or deafness (her disability), the conversation stops very quickly. Regardless of whether or not these conditions are no different than advanced Alzheimer's or hearing loss. Those patients fill facilities across the world. But not crazies. @Dead1nailed it. The shuttering of the institutional system created this problem which was then exacerbated by continuous defunding of public health and treatment facilities by governments. That system wasn't perfect or good, but at least it was better than what we have now. It was ended with promises to put money into resources to help treat people in more humane ways in the community. Here we are 40+ years later still waiting. So fuck you Ronnie old boy. Hope you are rotting in hell.

I'm just stuck thinking how many people out there are in a similar situation. Got to be at least a couple hundred just in my neck of the woods. And there are 16 beds total in all of NW Florida. 16 for a population base over 2 million. 1 emergency short stay holding facility. A critical shortage of mental health providers. Yet never a word until some asshole shoots up a school or nightclub. We're just numb to it as a society or worse just DGAF. The older I get, the more I wonder if we all wouldn't be better of with a gamma ray burst just putting us out of our misery. I mean not really, life is worth the good times which will come again, but if this is all the fucking progress we've made from the Dark Ages, will we just always be this way as humans? Is collective evolution towards a better world really possible. I'd say no at the moment. Probably why those sentiments are popular with the young and inexperienced.

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2 hours ago, navybsn said:

Yeah thanks guys. It's frustrating. Home care or LTC isn't really an option even if money wasn't a problem. The second you mention mental health issues or deafness (her disability), the conversation stops very quickly. Regardless of whether or not these conditions are no different than advanced Alzheimer's or hearing loss. Those patients fill facilities across the world. But not crazies. @Dead1nailed it. The shuttering of the institutional system created this problem which was then exacerbated by continuous defunding of public health and treatment facilities by governments. That system wasn't perfect or good, but at least it was better than what we have now. It was ended with promises to put money into resources to help treat people in more humane ways in the community. Here we are 40+ years later still waiting. So fuck you Ronnie old boy. Hope you are rotting in hell.

I'm just stuck thinking how many people out there are in a similar situation. Got to be at least a couple hundred just in my neck of the woods. And there are 16 beds total in all of NW Florida. 16 for a population base over 2 million. 1 emergency short stay holding facility. A critical shortage of mental health providers. Yet never a word until some asshole shoots up a school or nightclub. We're just numb to it as a society or worse just DGAF. The older I get, the more I wonder if we all wouldn't be better of with a gamma ray burst just putting us out of our misery. I mean not really, life is worth the good times which will come again, but if this is all the fucking progress we've made from the Dark Ages, will we just always be this way as humans? Is collective evolution towards a better world really possible. I'd say no at the moment. Probably why those sentiments are popular with the young and inexperienced.

Here the issue is most community outpatient type services are privatised (but still funded by government - don't ask it's a terrible rort).  The minute a patient is complex or difficult the private operators dump the patient and they go into the woefully resourced public sector.    

A lot of the private sector won't even take complex clients.  Even GPs dump mentally ill patients.

 

The fact that we're regressing as societies astound me.    It feels like we're headed back to the 19th century - dog eat dog and the poor can suffer in their filth.

WE KNOW BETTER!  Progress should be expanding access to healthcare, housing and basic services not taking away what we had or funnelling money to greedy private organisations.

 

It amazes me we have housing crises and electricity/gas crises all caused by greed.   Government says it can't do anything.  Sure it can - THEY ARE THE GOVERNMENT.

They could build houses (like they did in the past) and nationalise the power grid (like they did in the past) and offer essential services (like they did).

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@navybsn

The issue of mental illness is a brutal one. As a society we are uncomfortable talking about it. People just want to sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away on its own. As has already been said there's just no adequate system in place to deal with this serious problem that many more people face than I think most of us realize.

My mother was mentally ill. I live with a lot of guilt over this. When I first figured out she had a serious problem I was a teenager. I went to my dad and said I think we need to get her some help, hoping he'd take the lead as the adult. But he didn't know what to do, so he didn't do anything. As long as he got his ride to the train station 5 mornings a week and dinner was on the table at 6:30 every night I don't think he really cared beyond having his needs met.

Now I'm not a doctor obviously, but I've done a lot of reading over the years about this and my conclusion is that she had undiagnosed schizophrenia. She was certainly paranoid, thought all the neighbors on our cul-de-sac were planted by the government to spy on her. And she imagined voices talking to her and stuff. I could go on but you get the idea. Later in her life after my dad died she slipped and fell on the ice putting the garbage out one frigid night and broke her shoulder very badly. Laid there in the driveway for who knows how long in the freezing cold til someone heard her cries for help and came to investigate. She needeed surgery and after that we had to put her into assisted living. Fortunately she didn't present as a truly violent psychopath or anything, so they took her. She never went home again after that, we eventually sold her house for her.

I live with a lot of guilt to this day because I did not spend any more time visiting her in that place than I absolutely had to. Mostly because I just couldn't deal with the crazy shit she'd say. I have trouble letting shit go, everyone else used to just humor her, laugh and go along with her when she'd say her crazy shit. But I'd need to argue with her and set her straight which was pointless with a mentally ill person. And then I'd go home and feel shitty about it all for days. So my solution to cope was just not to go. And then a few years later when she was transferred to the nursing home it was worse, she became minimally interactive after awhile (I think she had given up) and I just found it too depressing being in that place so I stayed away from there too as much as I possibly could.

So I feel your pain deeply my friend. I know my situaion wasn't anywhere near as rough as yours, not in the same league even. Because we had her institutionalized where we knew she was taken care of at least physically if not mentally. I didn't have to be there to deal with it on a daily basis. And she had the resources to pay for it so I was essentially let off the hook. But I still can't help feeling like if maybe even at 15 I could have stepped up and done more to demand that she get the help she so clearly needed. Maybe if I could have done more when she was in her early 40's and got her treatment or medication or something she might not have had to sink so deep into mental illness at the end of her life in her late 70's.

Not gonna offer prayers or anything silly like that, and I know I'm not even in your inner circle of close friends or anything. But if you ever want to talk about it and take your venting to the next level I'm here for you if you need me man. I don't personally think fantasizing about theoretical euthanasia methods is such a bad way to blow off steam. Because the steam must be blown or the pressure will build and it will fucking eat you alive. And this is your wife's mom we're talking about so I'd imagine there are limits to how brutally honest you can be with her in this situation. Sometimes being able to vent to those outside your daily routine who aren't so close to the situation is the best thing.

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Whoa.

It's good to get this stuff out there and have the stories told. It's ironic that awareness of mental health issues seems to have improved in recent years, while by all accounts the options for a family to cope with it get worse and worse.

My wife's nephew with Asperger's was becoming a massive problem and potentially life-threatening to his Abuela that lived in the same house, until he was chemically castrated a year or so ago. It was an extreme option but when there is no state help it becomes that or wait for the murderous rampage to start.

It seems tragic to me that we all live in different parts of the so-called first world and all have the same societal problems brought on by constant pressure to weaken public services put in place after the second world war.

But on the bright side I won a doubles table tennis tournament at the office xmas party last night! 

 

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In my case, my Dad's Alzheimer's  got to a point that he turned on me. I would think dementia is mental health in a literal sense but it's probably not classified as such.

He passed back in 08 but it did a number on me for a while because my Dad and I had unresolved tension and we never talked about it. At one point my mom told me years later he wanted to talk to me about our relationship, and started a letter but his dementia had kicked in to the point that he couldn't really finish it beyond the first sentence.

After that he became aggressive towards me and I was the only one in the family. Eventually, he didn't know any of our names and but he would still loose control and direct this generalized hostility in my direction whenever the fam was getting together for a  birthday or the holidays.

It was almost comical, like I became a thing of evil. He'd give me these hateful stares and inarticulate yelling. 

I figured, well he must have never really like me. I can live with that, right? It's not like I was abused. It's not like Dead's situation where he genuinely suffered through war and shit like that. My parents provided for me and my siblings. But, it made me rethink my whole childhood. 

It got to the point where I didn't  want to get together with my extended family because of his anger and my Mom didn't have the skills to stand up to him or tell him to knock it off. She was probably afraid of him at some level. And of course she was having to help care for him, bathe him and manage his entire life. Several times, he walked off their LTC campus and that was a mess. 

Eventually, he had a bad fall and died shortly after. But, he had lived a healthy life, had been a runner, healthy diet, etc. and for most his dementia years had the challenge of being cognitively impaired but very physically capable which is a tough situation. It's not like he was in a wheelchair. 

I suggested it would be better for the rest of the family for me not to join family gatherings to have get togethers in peace, but my Mom wasn't having any of that. It's like someone drinking and you get the unfiltered truth.

For years my Mom has been telling me, Mark your Dad cared about you. My Dad had a big Fed bureaucrat career and was an intellectual -very bright guy. It must be hard loosing your memory when you're entire identity revolves around your intellect- abstract socio economic, theories, global issues, politics. 

Mom said as he slowly lost grip, he had trouble with what he felt were confident younger men when his faculties were slipping away and he felt threatened and would lash out at various people. But it still fucked with my head. 

I never had to deal with his long term care or any of that. But it was  good life lesson for me in terms of  how these end of life issues and mental health struggles family members have can have  significant impact on your life years later or potentially for the rest of your life. 

Anyway, Navy, I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you and your wife. Hopefully you can still do the things you love doing like going to shows and festivals!

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17 minutes ago, markm said:

I figured, well he never really like me. I didn't even want to get together with my family and suggested it would be better for the rest of the family to have get together in peace, but my Mom wasn't having any of that. It's like someone drinking and you get the unfiltered truth.

That sucks man. Dementia is one of the cruellest of all afflictions, especially for the observer. However, it could be he was transposing feelings from something/someone else and it was all getting mixed up. The mind is totally unreliable at that point. But it's hard not to take it personally. I hope you processed it in the end.

Alzheimer's got my grandad. I saw the degeneration over a number of years, although we were never that close to begin with. I grew up on the other side of the world when having a Grandad would have been really handy. By the time I lived in the same country he was already on his way out.

He was a navy diver and worked in bomb and mine disposal. All those stories lost.

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8 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

@navybsn

The issue of mental illness is a brutal one. As a society we are uncomfortable talking about it. People just want to sweep it under the rug and hope it goes away on its own. As has already been said there's just no adequate system in place to deal with this serious problem that many more people face than I think most of us realize.

My mother was mentally ill. I live with a lot of guilt over this. When I first figured out she had a serious problem I was a teenager. I went to my dad and said I think we need to get her some help, hoping he'd take the lead as the adult. But he didn't know what to do, so he didn't do anything. As long as he got his ride to the train station 5 mornings a week and dinner was on the table at 6:30 every night I don't think he really cared beyond having his needs met.

Now I'm not a doctor obviously, but I've done a lot of reading over the years about this and my conclusion is that she had undiagnosed schizophrenia. She was certainly paranoid, thought all the neighbors on our cul-de-sac were planted by the government to spy on her. And she imagined voices talking to her and stuff. I could go on but you get the idea. Later in her life after my dad died she slipped and fell on the ice putting the garbage out one frigid night and broke her shoulder very badly. Laid there in the driveway for who knows how long in the freezing cold til someone heard her cries for help and came to investigate. She needeed surgery and after that we had to put her into assisted living. Fortunately she didn't present as a truly violent psychopath or anything, so they took her. She never went home again after that, we eventually sold her house for her.

I live with a lot of guilt to this day because I did not spend any more time visiting her in that place than I absolutely had to. Mostly because I just couldn't deal with the crazy shit she'd say. I have trouble letting shit go, everyone else used to just humor her, laugh and go along with her when she'd say her crazy shit. But I'd need to argue with her and set her straight which was pointless with a mentally ill person. And then I'd go home and feel shitty about it all for days. So my solution to cope was just not to go. And then a few years later when she was transferred to the nursing home it was worse, she became minimally interactive after awhile (I think she had given up) and I just found it too depressing being in that place so I stayed away from there too as much as I possibly could.

So I feel your pain deeply my friend. I know my situaion wasn't anywhere near as rough as yours, not in the same league even. Because we had her institutionalized where we knew she was taken care of at least physically if not mentally. I didn't have to be there to deal with it on a daily basis. And she had the resources to pay for it so I was essentially let off the hook. But I still can't help feeling like if maybe even at 15 I could have stepped up and done more to demand that she get the help she so clearly needed. Maybe if I could have done more when she was in her early 40's and got her treatment or medication or something she might not have had to sink so deep into mental illness at the end of her life in her late 70's.

Not gonna offer prayers or anything silly like that, and I know I'm not even in your inner circle of close friends or anything. But if you ever want to talk about it and take your venting to the next level I'm here for you if you need me man. I don't personally think fantasizing about theoretical euthanasia methods is such a bad way to blow off steam. Because the steam must be blown or the pressure will build and it will fucking eat you alive. And this is your wife's mom we're talking about so I'd imagine there are limits to how brutally honest you can be with her in this situation. Sometimes being able to vent to those outside your daily routine who aren't so close to the situation is the best thing.

Dude, I hate to hear what you dealt with. I can empathize with your situation unfortunately. My family life growing up was fucked which led to me having to cut my family off once I became an adult. It's a long story, but in short, my parents got married at 17. I came along at 19. They were kids who had no idea what they were doing (like anyone really does). My sister came along 2 years later. We had a few good years where mom & dad made decent money, but most years were pretty thin. Fried bologna sandwiches for dinner were a staple 3-4 nights a week. Fast forward to when I was 15, my dad left my mom. Walked out on Christmas Eve. My mom lost it. Disappeared. We had no idea where she was for 2 months. Turns out she had been institutionalized after being found by the police wandering the streets crying and distraught in the middle of the night. So it was just me to care for myself and my sister during that time. Even when she eventually came back home, she was never the same. Skip a bunch of drama, dad moved to a different part of the state and she found a replacement. Typical stepdad stuff (come in and try to establish dominance crap) which went over as you would expect. It was made clear that I was persona non grata and pushed off into the world. Oh did I mention that he was a convicted sex offender? That diddled little kids and had done prison time for it? Yeah, that's fun. My father's side of the drama wasn't much better, but it's not worth going in to. You get the idea.

About 12 years ago when I was first diagnosed with cancer, they both somehow reinserted themselves into my life. Probably didn't hurt that there were significant financial interests if I had actually died on active duty and turns out that was the motivation. Not true concern for their child. Just a plot to cheat my wife and young daughter out of the half million life insurance payout. They had set up shop in my home in San Diego while I was hospitalized and were terrorizing my family. I had to throw them out and cut ties again. And like Russian history, it only got worse. I could write a book on all the drama, but again you get the idea.

As a result, I still have a good deal of difficulty forming solid trusting relationships with people. I have no problem just cutting ties with people with no remorse. Almost feels sociopathic at times, but I guess when you have to cut the closest ties you have in life, it gets pretty easy to do so in the future. I'll be the first to admit that I'm a fucked-up individual. I'm sure there's a lot of baggage that I should deal with, but I have no idea where I would actually start. I get along fine, so maybe there's no need. I am sure it strains my relationship with my wife at times. She comes from the exact opposite situation. Perfect, ideal childhood. Of course, just like the movies, she was not aware of the real situation going on in the background which we found out when her parents died, but ignorance is bliss. Certainly, it has affected my relationship with my daughter as well.

Anyway, we are all fucked up to some degree. All dealing with some amount of ridiculous bullshit in our lives. And if you're not now, don't worry it's coming. So be understanding of people. Show some compassion. Be kind. You really have no idea what they may be dealing with.

11 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

I know I'm not even in your inner circle of close friends or anything

Yeah, actually you are. All of you guys. Maybe a virtual relationship for the most part, but I honestly feel just as close to you guys as to anyone I know in the flesh. Most of them are virtual to me 99% of the time anyway because we're adults with lives. We do meet up a few times a year, but I probably talk to you guys more.

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2 hours ago, markm said:

In my case, my Dad's Alzheimer's  got to a point that he turned on me. I would think dementia is mental health in a literal sense but it's probably not classified as such.

He passed back in 08 but it did a number on me for a while because my Dad and I had unresolved tension and we never talked about it. At one point my mom told me years later he wanted to talk to me about our relationship, and started a letter but his dementia had kicked in to the point that he couldn't really finish it beyond the first sentence.

After that he became aggressive towards me and I was the only one in the family. Eventually, he didn't know any of our names and but he would still loose control and direct this generalized hostility in my direction whenever the fam was getting together for a  birthday or the holidays.

It was almost comical, like I became a thing of evil. He'd give me these hateful stares and inarticulate yelling. 

I figured, well he must have never really like me. I can live with that, right? It's not like I was abused. It's not like Dead's situation where he genuinely suffered through war and shit like that. My parents provided for me and my siblings. But, it made me rethink my whole childhood. 

It got to the point where I didn't  want to get together with my extended family because of his anger and my Mom didn't have the skills to stand up to him or tell him to knock it off. She was probably afraid of him at some level. And of course she was having to help care for him, bathe him and manage his entire life. Several times, he walked off their LTC campus and that was a mess. 

Eventually, he had a bad fall and died shortly after. But, he had lived a healthy life, had been a runner, healthy diet, etc. and for most his dementia years had the challenge of being cognitively impaired but very physically capable which is a tough situation. It's not like he was in a wheelchair. 

I suggested it would be better for the rest of the family for me not to join family gatherings to have get togethers in peace, but my Mom wasn't having any of that. It's like someone drinking and you get the unfiltered truth.

For years my Mom has been telling me, Mark your Dad cared about you. My Dad had a big Fed bureaucrat career and was an intellectual -very bright guy. It must be hard loosing your memory when you're entire identity revolves around your intellect- abstract socio economic, theories, global issues, politics. 

Mom said as he slowly lost grip, he had trouble with what he felt were confident younger men when his faculties were slipping away and he felt threatened and would lash out at various people. But it still fucked with my head. 

I never had to deal with his long term care or any of that. But it was  good life lesson for me in terms of  how these end of life issues and mental health struggles family members have can have  significant impact on your life years later or potentially for the rest of your life. 

Anyway, Navy, I can't imagine how difficult it must be for you and your wife. Hopefully you can still do the things you love doing like going to shows and festivals!

Yeah man, that sounds scarily similar to my dad's last years, except his was Parkinson's. Early onset. He was diagnosed around the age I am now and was dead within 10 years. He was a pretty successful guy. Long time critical care nurse that ran ICU's across North Florida for years. He quickly degraded to a shell of a human. From what I understand, we had no relationship as I sorta mentioned above, it was not pretty. Honestly scares the shit out of me. I know that Parkinson's isn't genetic, but that doesn't alleviate my fear of it. Losing your mind has to be the absolute worst way to go. I think I'd rather eat a bullet.

I can totally empathize with the way you feel about the relationship with your dad. I feel the same way. I don't think either of my parents ever saw me as anything more than a meal ticket. A means to accomplish a goal. Sucks to feel that way, but I've learned to deal with it.

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18 hours ago, navybsn said:

@Dead1nailed it. The shuttering of the institutional system created this problem which was then exacerbated by continuous defunding of public health and treatment facilities by governments. That system wasn't perfect or good, but at least it was better than what we have now

One hundred times yes. When I was a medical student I spent some time at what we called 'the bin' at Rozelle. Beautiful old buildings on beautiful green grounds on the water. It was doomed. Currently used for various community activities -  the long term care of the mentally ill and others long gone. 

Community care works for a few, but was essentially always an underfunded lie.

And if there were a hell, yep, Ronnie would be rotting in it.

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3 hours ago, navybsn said:

Dude, I hate to hear what you dealt with. I can empathize with your situation unfortunately. My family life growing up was fucked which led to me having to cut my family off once I became an adult. It's a long story, but in short, my parents got married at 17. I came along at 19. They were kids who had no idea what they were doing (like anyone really does). My sister came along 2 years later. We had a few good years where mom & dad made decent money, but most years were pretty thin. Fried bologna sandwiches for dinner were a staple 3-4 nights a week. Fast forward to when I was 15, my dad left my mom. Walked out on Christmas Eve. My mom lost it. Disappeared. We had no idea where she was for 2 months. Turns out she had been institutionalized after being found by the police wandering the streets crying and distraught in the middle of the night. So it was just me to care for myself and my sister during that time. Even when she eventually came back home, she was never the same. Skip a bunch of drama, dad moved to a different part of the state and she found a replacement. Typical stepdad stuff (come in and try to establish dominance crap) which went over as you would expect. It was made clear that I was persona non grata and pushed off into the world. Oh did I mention that he was a convicted sex offender? That diddled little kids and had done prison time for it? Yeah, that's fun. My father's side of the drama wasn't much better, but it's not worth going in to. You get the idea.

About 12 years ago when I was first diagnosed with cancer, they both somehow reinserted themselves into my life. Probably didn't hurt that there were significant financial interests if I had actually died on active duty and turns out that was the motivation. Not true concern for their child. Just a plot to cheat my wife and young daughter out of the half million life insurance payout. They had set up shop in my home in San Diego while I was hospitalized and were terrorizing my family. I had to throw them out and cut ties again. And like Russian history, it only got worse. I could write a book on all the drama, but again you get the idea.....

 

Great post Navy. Some amazing dialog here. I think you're amazingly together as a human being given your early years. Much more than I am!

2 hours ago, navybsn said:

Yeah man, that sounds scarily similar to my dad's last years, except his was Parkinson's. Early onset. He was diagnosed around the age I am now and was dead within 10 years. He was a pretty successful guy. Long time critical care nurse that ran ICU's across North Florida for years. He quickly degraded to a shell of a human. From what I understand, we had no relationship as I sorta mentioned above, it was not pretty. Honestly scares the shit out of me. I know that Parkinson's isn't genetic, but that doesn't alleviate my fear of it. Losing your mind has to be the absolute worst way to go. I think I'd rather eat a bullet.

I can totally empathize with the way you feel about the relationship with your dad. I feel the same way. I don't think either of my parents ever saw me as anything more than a meal ticket. A means to accomplish a goal. Sucks to feel that way, but I've learned to deal with it.

I would be a complete basket case. As one Buddhist sympathizer to another, this is definitely not your first time on earth. You have some strong coping skills to get through all that.  

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Wow you guys have done well given the circumstances. 

 

I totally get it as my mother probably has some undiagnosed mental illness - paranoid, narcistic, occasionally violent and occasionally sadistic and bouts of depression and euphoria where her behaviour would be childlike.

Her own mother basically abused her physically and psychologically and in turn she did the same with me (dunno if any of you watch Walking Dead, but the character Alpha reminds me of my mother). 

Bizarrely she tormented my brothers less - one was the golden child and the other was neglected.

But Croats/Yugoslavs of that generation (born 1950s)  don't do mental health.  It's all very taboo.

 

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1 hour ago, navybsn said:

You know, I'm not sure I believe in all that, but that's not the first time I've heard that. It's kinda weird.

Yeah, I don't either really, although it's an interesting thought experiment, but some people seem higher evolved along the path than others, that's for sure. 

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well damn we have some messed up histories, sorry to all who lived through that.

 

Similar experiences in my childhood, to a point I’m seeking professional help. Probably the worst thing was being threatened whenever I spilled anything, never mind my obvious attempts to clean up.

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I'm very wary of people who say that they had "ideal" upbringings. They're either 1) ignorant of what was really going on (like my wife) or 2) lying to accomplish some means. Ignorant is certainly the best of the 2, but boy when that bomb finally drops, the blast radius can go in many unexpected directions. Depending on how close you are to the person, you may take more damage than you think. I saw it coming years ago and started gently steeling both of us for the inevitable. It sorta worked. Enough that we've made it through for the most part. We're all imperfect and messed up. It's the human condition.

As fucked as much of my own was, I'm thankful to be honest. I think I am a much better adult and able to handle adversity with more ease. Things may get bad, but it's rarely so bad that I truly get worried. I got through with a skillset that continues to serve me well. That said, I wouldn't wish it on anyone. 

1 hour ago, RelentlessOblivion said:

well damn we have some messed up histories, sorry to all who lived through that.

 

Similar experiences in my childhood, to a point I’m seeking professional help. Probably the worst thing was being threatened whenever I spilled anything, never mind my obvious attempts to clean up.

That's very admirable to be strong enough to realize you need it and are seeking out help. Cheers mate and good luck!

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