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2 hours ago, Dead1 said:

I am happy with good distinctive song writing, great riffs, decent production (ie not overproduced) and a degree of energy/intensity.

However these are surprisingly rare in this day and age and most bands can only manage 1 or 2 of the above (and universally good, distinctive song writing's not one of them).

I can listen to meat n potato death, speed and thrash all day but at some point I will zone out. 

I still want there to be some sort of memorable listening experience and I still want to find albums that will bring me joy through repeated listenings and bands I will care about.

Yes of course this joy is what we're all chasing. But the idea that there could even be such a thing as "universally good, distictive songwriting" seems fallacious to me. If I've learned anything in my dozen plus years being active on metal forums and interacting with other metalheads on a daily basis, it's that "universal" with respect to anything to do with music or art simply doesn't exist. One man's idea of memorable, enjoyable and distinctive songwriting is often another man's uninspired, banal, vapid rubbish. I think it would be an exercize in futility to even try to get just three or four people to all agree on what a great riff or a well written song is. And that's because different people are looking to get different things out of their music. It's all completely subjective. Just because someone may decide they really like a particular album and think the riffs and songwriting are right on point, inevitably someone else will disagree. That doesn't make either one of them right or wrong, any declaration of the album's quality or lack therof can be neither universally true nor false. To say an album is good or bad can only be true for whomever made the statement because we're all judging music by different criterion. And we're all music critics with our own stinky but firmly held opinions.

I sometimes feel bad for you Deadovic. Even with so many thousands of metal albums coming out each and every year during this renaissance of metal we currently find ourselves in the midst of, you're down there in Tassie unable to find but a wee small handful of new releases each year that bring you any pleasure at all. Almost all of your posted playlists harken back to the 80's and early/mid 90's. Every forum I've ever been on seems to have (at least) that one guy who basically hates nearly all the new stuff; or at least dismisses it as derivative, inferior and inconsequential because he truly believes that music was somehow just better X years ago.

I can only hope that 2022 will be the year you might finally be able to find some new music that floats your boat. And also that you may find the culprit who drained your savings account and get restitution.

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14 minutes ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

 

I sometimes feel bad for you Deadovic. Even with so many thousands of metal albums coming out each and every year during this renaissance of metal we currently find ourselves in the midst of, you're down there in Tassie unable to find but a wee small handful of new releases each year that bring you any pleasure at all. Almost all of your posted playlists harken back to the 80's and early/mid 90's. Every forum I've ever been on seems to have (at least) that one guy who basically hates nearly all the new stuff; or at least dismisses it as derivative, inferior and inconsequential because he truly believes that music was somehow just better X years ago.

I can only hope that 2022 will be the year you might finally be able to find some new music that floats your boat. And also that you may find the culprit who drained your savings account and get restitution.

 

I listen to lots of new stuff.  I post a lot of it here, especially on 2021 release threads.  Just listening to new Pyrexia which is OK but not spectacular.  Before that was Genocide Pact, also Ok but I literally thought: "why listen to this when Asphyx did it better?"

Most of those thousands of releases released each year are derivative.  I tune in to the thrash and old school metal channels on Youtube and the amount of cookie cutter bands is insane.  Very little stands out.  None of its atrocious either.  It's just pointlessly generic to my ears.

And yes I listen to classics a lot.  I like them.  I don't overplay them so as to get sick of them.  But I don't listen to just any old shit - eg you won't find Vio-lence in my collections as they were piss poor.

 

There was a lot of terrible shit in the 1980s-90s but there's a key difference - given technology and distribution methods  of the day these shit bands went nowhere and were consigned to garages or playing local gigs with only the odd badly produced demo to their name,

Modern technology allows everyone to release stuff with "palatable" production.  Hence the deluge of thousands of albums, of which realistically only a handful are actually doing any thing interesting.

 

 

 

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Far be it from me to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't find interesting. I leave that up to people to decide for themselves. I'll just say that I myself find a lot more new stuff these days that interests me than I ever have at any point in the past. What others choose to listen to is besides the point and their own business. I guess I must just have a higher tolerance for derivative and generic than most.

The way I see it when it comes to 30+ year old genres like black and death metal or thrash or whatever genre you're into, almost everything new is gonna be derivative at least to some extent. I guess when push comes to shove I generally seek to listen to something new and derivative more often than not over something from the past I know is great but I've heard 500 times already and I've grown tired of the exact same old songs in the same order with the same riffs over and over again ad infinitum. People have asked me this before, why listen to newer band X when you can just listen to good ole band Y from 20 years ago? Because that's boring. Is this just my ADHD making me prone to being seduced by shiny new things syndrome? Is it the thrill of the hunt and the chase is better than the catch? I don't know.

I suppose my way is not so terribly different from many people that will continue to follow and buy new albums from the same old legacy bands from their youth like Maiden or Megadeth or Exodus 35 years down the line. You can be all but certain their old classic albums will be much better than their newer ones, but yet still some people just find it appealing or comforting to hear a new album from their favorite artists with new songs and new riffs and new lyrics that they haven't heard 1,000 times already.

I don't do that myself, stay loyal to a particular band over a period of several decades and continue to follow them and buy their new stuff until the day they break up and pack it in or cark it. There are a handful of exceptions to this but not many in my experience. Most bands shoot their creative loads within the first 10 or 15 years after formation and then when it sounds like they've started going through the motions and are getting stale or have lost their songwriting chops I'll simply move on pretend they broke up and stop checking out and buying the new albums no matter who they are and how much and how long I've loved them. 

But it's basically the same principle in play, I prefer to hear new takes by newer bands on previously established styles  of music rather than the alternative which would be just continuing to listen to the same 150 albums on repeat for the rest of my fucking life. For me having all the newer stuff in rotation allows me to still want to reach for the older ones as well every now and then. It keeps the old favorite albums from sounding quite as stale to me when I can have lots more time between spins. And it's the same as I feel about books or movies or food or anything really, I don't just want to watch the same film or read the same book over and over again or eat the same thing for dinner every night or wear the same clothes every single day, I like to mix things up a bit and have a little bit of variety. That's why I might choose to spin a Genocide Pact which was nothing really special rather than listen to The Last One on Earth for the 599th time to use your example. I didn't make an Asphyx connection with GP myself, but I knew what you meant.

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Couldn't it be thought of that GG and Dead are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to what they deem acceptable "genericism" in their music? If you dislike things that are generic, or reminds you of old bands, you're gonna be a lot more critical of an album then if you don't have a problem with that and just want music to sound and make you feel good. Given that all other variables are constant, that's where one will dismiss 95% of the music as unoriginal and the other will embrace 60% of the music because it makes them smile.

Personally I don't really have a problem with music that can be seen as generic as long as it sounds good. It might not blow my socks of and make me get a tattoo of their logo, but it might still end up on my AOTY if it's engaging enough. For example, Spectral Wound doesn't REALLY do anything new and crazy, it's a lot of 2nd wave Norwegians, a little of the Quebec sound, and some punk, but they are FUN! and got great riffs, drum parts, and great vocals. That's good enough for me.

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2 hours ago, Sheol said:

Couldn't it be thought of that GG and Dead are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to what they deem acceptable "genericism" in their music? 

But then neither of them seem to get much into the newer avant-garde boundary pushing horseshit that makes some of us happy sometimes, they're both looking for familiar sounds in different ways.

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16 hours ago, GoatmasterGeneral said:

Far be it from me to tell anyone else what they should or shouldn't find interesting. I leave that up to people to decide for themselves. I'll just say that I myself find a lot more new stuff these days that interests me than I ever have at any point in the past. What others choose to listen to is besides the point and their own business. I guess I must just have a higher tolerance for derivative and generic than most.

The way I see it when it comes to 30+ year old genres like black and death metal or thrash or whatever genre you're into, almost everything new is gonna be derivative at least to some extent. I guess when push comes to shove I generally seek to listen to something new and derivative more often than not over something from the past I know is great but I've heard 500 times already and I've grown tired of the exact same old songs in the same order with the same riffs over and over again ad infinitum. People have asked me this before, why listen to newer band X when you can just listen to good ole band Y from 20 years ago? Because that's boring. Is this just my ADHD making me prone to being seduced by shiny new things syndrome? Is it the thrill of the hunt and the chase is better than the catch? I don't know.

I suppose my way is not so terribly different from many people that will continue to follow and buy new albums from the same old legacy bands from their youth like Maiden or Megadeth or Exodus 35 years down the line. You can be all but certain their old classic albums will be much better than their newer ones, but yet still some people just find it appealing or comforting to hear a new album from their favorite artists with new songs and new riffs and new lyrics that they haven't heard 1,000 times already.

I don't do that myself, stay loyal to a particular band over a period of several decades and continue to follow them and buy their new stuff until the day they break up and pack it in or cark it. There are a handful of exceptions to this but not many in my experience. Most bands shoot their creative loads within the first 10 or 15 years after formation and then when it sounds like they've started going through the motions and are getting stale or have lost their songwriting chops I'll simply move on pretend they broke up and stop checking out and buying the new albums no matter who they are and how much and how long I've loved them. 

But it's basically the same principle in play, I prefer to hear new takes by newer bands on previously established styles  of music rather than the alternative which would be just continuing to listen to the same 150 albums on repeat for the rest of my fucking life. For me having all the newer stuff in rotation allows me to still want to reach for the older ones as well every now and then. It keeps the old favorite albums from sounding quite as stale to me when I can have lots more time between spins. 

 

 

I think it's still possible to write good songs even in genres that are artistically "exhausted."  Bands like Midnight, Toxic Holocaust, Havok, Enforcer, Power Trip, High Command all write/wrote tunes that are memorable and distinctive.  Napalm Death still manages to write a corker with a few curve balls thrown in.  Blood Incantation's last one was early 1990s level brilliant.

Personally I find new albums from old bands to often be the most derivative.   Eg new Exodus or most things modern Overkill.

As for things getting stale, I don't listen to my old stuff enough for it to ever bore me.  But I don't listen to as much music as you do so time between spins is a lot longer.

 

 

 

11 hours ago, Sheol said:

Couldn't it be thought of that GG and Dead are on opposite ends of the spectrum when it comes to what they deem acceptable "genericism" in their music? If you dislike things that are generic, or reminds you of old bands, you're gonna be a lot more critical of an album then if you don't have a problem with that and just want music to sound and make you feel good. Given that all other variables are constant, that's where one will dismiss 95% of the music as unoriginal and the other will embrace 60% of the music because it makes them smile.

 

I agree with this.  I liked new Abbath cause bits were like Bathory and I like Midnight cause there's so much Venom in them.

Playing generic 1980s thrash or generic 2000s death metal is fine but it still has to have some sort of appeal.

8 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

But then neither of them seem to get much into the newer avant-garde boundary pushing horseshit that makes some of us happy sometimes, they're both looking for familiar sounds in different ways.

I tried with the avant garde but it doesn't work for me.  Deep down I am an working class bogan from the shit part of town and my heart is AC/DC and Sex Pistols not Rush or Jethro Tull..  

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I don't necessarily need new metal to evoke or emulate specific bands or "old school" sounds from the past. It's fine and dandy if they do because I'm not at all concerned with originality, but rather just with execution. I want heavily distorted guitars that are playing cool riffs in a standard time signature like 4/4 that I can bang my head to. And I want vocals that don't annoy me or make me cringe. And I'd like it to be filthy and evil and not overly polished. That's really pretty much all I'm looking for from new music.

I think Deadovic believes I'll like just about anything that has that certain particular sound that I look for, but that's not true. It does need to have that filthy evil sound, yes. But it also needs be well written and bring the good riffs. And the vocals have to be just so, that's actually the biggest deal-breaker I typically encounter with new music. Just one or the other is not enough for me, I require both. Which means I'll exclude things that are well written and have good riffs if they don't have that certain sound I'm looking for. I pass on many more bands than I accept, even just looking within my limited scope.

I can also sometimes be cool with newer bands pushing some boundaries and trying to do something a little different as long as it's not just being super dissonant or angular (I'll call bands like Ad Nauseam and Pyrrhon "angular" for lack of a better descriptor) or all weird and proggy or avant-garde or using odd time signatures or adding excessive non-metallic elements to their sound. It would be fair to call many if not most of the newer bands I like derivative, but I just think of it as simply wanting black and death metal that sounds like what my brain recognizes as being black and death metal. So while there is loosely speaking somewhat of a "template" most of these bands I dig tend to adhere to, I can also be cool with bands that like to push envelopes as well. But, I can only stay with that envelope pushing so far before in my mind that envelope begins to tear and then falls apart. I don't think eschewing prog and avant-garde music is a socio-econmic thing at all, it's just that our brains are all wired differently and so different sounds will trigger those endorphins in different people. 

I have no time for the Deafheavens of the world coming in with their soft pretty sounds and claiming to be black metal. (or their fans claiming they're black metal) Not that I have an inherent problem with bands like Deafheaven or Obscura, or Krallice, I'm sure they're all good bands in their own realms. I'm just totally not into what they do and I resent them being called black or death metal when the reality is they're obviously something else entirely. Just like most everyone else I do listen to music that falls outside of metal because sometimes that's what I'm in the mood for. But for me anyway there's a time and a place for that shit. I don't think all bands need to be evil black, death or goat metal filth with paint peeling vocals. You do you, it's all good. But the way I see it, if you're marketing yourself as an extreme metal band then I'll need you to be fucking extreme and headbangable or you can get the fuck out. If you'd like your band to be considered black or death metal then just play fucking black or death metal. Otherwise you (or your fans) should just call your music something else please. Problem solved!

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February 2022 is going to be in Australia when 50% of truck fleet and large chunk of agricultural equipment goes offline due to lack of Adblue fuel additive:

 

https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/travel/urea-shortage-puts-supply-chain-under-extreme-pressure-with-supplies-at-risk-and-prices-to-soar/news-story/7808eb00f813945293cbab5539585ea4

 

40 years of deindustrialisation and reliance on China is really starting to bite us in the arse.

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And government's not doing anything about it.  They actually allowed the South Koreans to send a military transport plane to take 27,000 litres of the stuff to South Korea.  😖

 

https://7news.com.au/business/energy/south-korea-has-urea-shortage-c-4495853

 

I've just spent half an hour sending a letter to all the local and key federal politicians to start focusing on self sufficiency in key strategic areas (food, agriculture, petro-chemicals, pharmaceuticals).

It won't do any good of course but I felt like I should do something.    

I really wish we had people like Joseph Lyons, John Curtin, Ben Chifley, Bob Menzies (second time around),  in power - those guys built the country.  These modern Baby Boomer/X Generation guys are useless self absorbed clowns who have spent 40 years plundering or selling off everything. 

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It wont happen anyway. We are constantly told we are going to run out of fuel. Every Christmas for 20 years we were told we'd run out of beer. Ad blue is becoming more widely used here but there is still so much of the Ag sector that is ad blue free. Even the trucking industry which does use ad blue on a wider scale has options. It's not much better than Scaremonger journalism.

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12 minutes ago, KillaKukumba said:

It wont happen anyway. We are constantly told we are going to run out of fuel. Every Christmas for 20 years we were told we'd run out of beer. Ad blue is becoming more widely used here but there is still so much of the Ag sector that is ad blue free. Even the trucking industry which does use ad blue on a wider scale has options. It's not much better than Scaremonger journalism.

Apparently AdBlue tank can be circumvented but it's illegal.  I hope government steps in and quickly allows operators to modify vehicles until more reliable supply chains can be sourced.

50% of trucks have AdBlue tanks.

 

AdBlue shortage is real - its mainly produced in China and they've limited supplies drastically to lower fertiliser costs.  South Korea is already rationing it.

 

In other news because of our stupid export first policy, a major fertilizer plant in Brisbane has to close down because it can't get gas despite Australia being the world's largest producer of gas.  They literally allow Chevron, Shell etc to make billions on natural gas without paying royalties or income taxes!

 

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I doubt the number is 50%. The number of older trucks on the roads, the fact that Adblue is not needed in all new trucks, and that fact that said section of  Euro 4 and 5 has only been a standard in this country for the last few years would suggest to me that the number is much lower, same goes for Ag equipment. I know the reports have found truckies saying they are concerned, and to be honest they'd be idiots if they didn't have some concern, but they aren't all reeling.

As for it being illegal, changing speed limiters is illegal, driving over hours is illegal, driving over weight is illegal, yet all those things happen on a daily basis. If it means getting shit done change will happen, the adblue production downturn has been in the news for several months now, most trucking companies effected have been making plans and contingencies, while others have been making headlines.

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Mandated for vehicles that were coming into the country already adhering to Euro 4 and 5, it's been in the country since about 2004. We also didn't take Euro 4 and 5 on fully until 2018 or 19. In trucks it's mainly used as a part of SCR (Selective Catalytic Reduction), but there are alternatives to SCR and many diesel manufcturers have utilised those alternatives. It does however seem like more smaller diesels, in Euro passenger cars etc, in recent years have made the adblue switch rather than looking at the alternatives. I'm not sure on the figures of adblue cars on the road here, and just because they are fitted with it on overseas models doesn't automatically mean they come here that way, but if it's made it's way into fleet cars as some suggest it has the potential to upset more suits who might have a louder collective voice than the trucking industry.

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Well the kid woke up with the sniffles today, was blowing snot bubbles out of his nose told me to feel his head and says he feels drowsy. I'm feeling a little something in the back of my throat as well this morning so I called him in sick. Don't remember my mom ever having to call me in sick when I was a kid, we just stayed home. I went out to tell the bus driver that he's not going in today and now she's got me wondering if this means he'll be suspended from attending school and will have to stay home til Christmas and get multiple Covid tests in order to return. She said "they're dropping like flies" so I guess in spite of their masks we're getting back to the way things always used to be when all the kids passed around colds after Thanksgiving when we usually get the wacky weather ups and downs, 33° one day 63° the next. We haven't had a cold in this house since March of 2019, this is gonna be weird because I think I've forgotten how to be sick. Guess I'd better run out later and stock up on chicken soup and tissues.

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I always figured they stuck Christmas in late December to distract everyone from the shitty cold wet weather and our recent loss of all our greenery and everything. I mean personally I happen to really like grey drab chilly cloudy days, even the occasional wind rain and snow. Weather like this is a great mood setter for my black metal and it breaks up the monotony a bit from just regular old boring sunny days all the time. But I realize I'm well in the minority here and that given the choice most people would just opt for sunshine, cloudless skies, gentle tropical breezes, 75° shrimp on the barbie, drinks with umbrellas and chicks in bikinis to serve them 365 days a year. I'm just not a sunny day shrimp on the barbie kinda guy. Maybe I should move to Norway. Or Maine.

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I think I want to live somewhere consistent. It's summer, I don't have to have 30+ degrees but shit some sun for more than 1 day a week would be good. A few days without rain would be good. And a few days where my solar panels can work at better than 25% efficiency would be good as well. I'm not even asking just for me, my vegies that are trying to grow in the garden would greatly appreciate a little summer too!

 

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Definitely don't need a rain dance, it's been the wettest year since records started more than 100 years go. More wet days, more rain on those days and more rain in total. No idea if they do a sunshine dance, they probably do, but then we'd probably need a moderation dance to give us equal parts sun and equal parts rain.

 But shit! The sun has just come out, I should get a photo of it just in case it's the only time we see it this week!

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