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Binging on fantasy and sci-fi novels for the past few weeks, in lieu of listening to much music. The heart wants what it wants, or something.

Robin Hobb:

"Fool's Assassin"
"Fool's Quest"
"Assassin's Fate"

L.E. Modesitt, Jr:

"Assassin's Price" (totally unrelated to the above novels)
"The Soprano Sorceress"
"Archform: Beauty"
"Timegod's World"
"The Ethos Effect"
And I just started "Solar Express"

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Nearing the completion of my Complete Works of Conan by Robert Howard. Let me tell you something, if I had have known that the original stories based on this, admittedly, cheesy movie/game character, were this well written I would have read this decades ago. Anyone who likes sword and sorcery stuff needs to read these stories. After Lord of the Rings they are now my favourite fantasy works. Considering they were written before even The Hobbit, Howard is the true creator of what we recognise as modern fantasy/sword and sorcery. But don't expect hokey 1930s style writing - Howard writes with stunning intensity. 

Robert Howard was in correspondence with Lovecraft in the 1930s. Two simply brilliant writers and there are definite similarities in how they write, although Howard is more about adventure and thrills than creepiness.  

One of the things about the world of Conan that I love so much is that it's a set in our world, albeit 10,000 years in the past before a cataclysmic geological event changed the shape of the continents. So the large continent that Conan explores sort of resembles our world, but is also obscure. The far north countries are Vanaheim and Asgard, the river Styx is the Nile and divides Shem (Israel) and Stygia (Egypt) etc. Check out a map of Hyboria. It's an amazing idea. 

Also, because Howard was writing short stories for magazines, each story has a different feel. Some are set in deserts and are a bit Arabian Nights, some are pirate stories, others are lost cities in the jungle, others are Game of Thrones style politics in cities. There are battles etc. There's so much variety. It's also surprising to find out how much of Howard's style and approach was stolen by later writers. 

But all of this would be meaningless if it wasn't for the skill and talent of the writer. Robert Howard is one of the best storytellers I've ever read.

Forget the corny films and pop culture cheesiness. Here's the book I have, and I implore fans of fantasy to pick it up: Complete Works of Conan

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On 6/19/2018 at 7:08 AM, FatherAlabaster said:

I'm not going back to those unless he finishes the series.

He’ll never finish. It will be like the Wheel of Time again when Robert Jordan just keeps writing until he dies with nothing resolved, 14 books into the damn series! 

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11 minutes ago, Requiem said:

He’ll never finish. It will be like the Wheel of Time again when Robert Jordan just keeps writing until he dies with nothing resolved, 14 books into the damn series! 

Brandon Sanderson did a great job on the final Wheel Of Time books from what I remember. He had an excellent grasp of the characters, the plot wound its way forward convincingly , and his actual writing was, if anything, a bit better crafted than Jordan's. Funny you should say that though, I remember the guy who introduced me to "A Song Of Ice And Fire" saying that Martin's health was really bad and there was a chance he wouldn't finish writing the books, and then two or three years later he's over at HBO and the novels are on the back burner. Maybe he isn't doing so poorly after all.

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8 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Brandon Sanderson did a great job on the final Wheel Of Time books from what I remember. He had an excellent grasp of the characters, the plot wound its way forward convincingly , and his actual writing was, if anything, a bit better crafted than Jordan's. Funny you should say that though, I remember the guy who introduced me to "A Song Of Ice And Fire" saying that Martin's health was really bad and there was a chance he wouldn't finish writing the books, and then two or three years later he's over at HBO and the novels are on the back burner. Maybe he isn't doing so poorly after all.

The ending of a series is the most important part. Imagine if someone else had written the final chapters of Lord of the Rings or 1984, let alone an epic that has been built over 12,000 pages!

Jordan could have ended the series in book 12, the turn of the clock, but he just couldn’t let go and say “enough”. And now it ends in a rush of strings tied together by someone else in the awkwardly numbered book 15, or whatever it is. 

I don’t doubt that Sanderson’s writing was probably better crafted than Jordan’s, who by that point was no doubt typing madly and with little real direction. 

I stopped reading after about book 3 but the husband of my wife’s cousin(!) has read them and he’s into them. There’s no way I’m pushing through to some other writer’s end.

Are they any good all up? How on earth does he maintain any focus in his work (Jordan)?

 

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5 minutes ago, Requiem said:

The ending of a series is the most important part. Imagine if someone else had written the final chapters of Lord of the Rings or 1984, let alone an epic that has been built over 12,000 pages!

Jordan could have ended the series in book 12, the turn of the clock, but he just couldn’t let go and say “enough”. And now it ends in a rush of strings tied together by someone else in the awkwardly numbered book 15, or whatever it is. 

I don’t doubt that Sanderson’s writing was probably better crafted than Jordan’s, who by that point was no doubt typing madly and with little real direction. 

I stopped reading after about book 3 but the husband of my wife’s cousin(!) has read them and he’s into them. There’s no way I’m pushing through to some other writer’s end.

Are they any good all up? How on earth does he maintain any focus in his work (Jordan)?

 

The first few novels were the weakest part of the series IMO. It got better in every way as it went along, most notably character development and pacing. The last books were written according to Jordan's detailed notes and IIRC the ending of the final novel was actually written by him. I didn't get any sense of rushing to tie things together - they'd started to come together well before the end. I had my doubts about bringing in a new author, but came away pleasantly surprised at how well it was handled. It's not high literature, but if you're in the mood to binge on entertaining epic fantasy, it's worth the time.

____

I've been really into China Miéville recently. I read Iron Council, Embassytown, and Kraken and just started The Scar. Iron Council is pretty dark (think Clive Barker) and unsatisfying in a good, thought-provoking way (lots of economic and political ideas), although the non-linear narrative gets annoying at times. Embassytown is a bit less dark, a thoughtful and moving novel about (among other things) language, betrayal, and alien contact. Kraken is pretty much just a fun urban fantasy novel, along the lines of Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere - a semi-hapless normie protagonist entertainingly thrust into London's dark, magical underground.

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1 hour ago, FatherAlabaster said:

The first few novels were the weakest part of the series IMO. It got better in every way as it went along, most notably character development and pacing. The last books were written according to Jordan's detailed notes and IIRC the ending of the final novel was actually written by him. I didn't get any sense of rushing to tie things together - they'd started to come together well before the end. I had my doubts about bringing in a new author, but came away pleasantly surprised at how well it was handled. It's not high literature, but if you're in the mood to binge on entertaining epic fantasy, it's worth the time.

____

I've been really into China Miéville recently. I read Iron Council, Embassytown, and Kraken and just started The Scar. Iron Council is pretty dark (think Clive Barker) and unsatisfying in a good, thought-provoking way (lots of economic and political ideas), although the non-linear narrative gets annoying at times. Embassytown is a bit less dark, a thoughtful and moving novel about (among other things) language, betrayal, and alien contact. Kraken is pretty much just a fun urban fantasy novel, along the lines of Neil Gaiman's Neverwhere - a semi-hapless normie protagonist entertainingly thrust into London's dark, magical underground.

I read Kraken several years ago and remember enjoying it.  I was never really into fantasy that much, so I never read any of his other books.

I just finished Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy.  Currently I am reading a collection of short stories written by Franz Kafka - some are quite interesting!

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13 hours ago, Balor said:

I read Kraken several years ago and remember enjoying it.  I was never really into fantasy that much, so I never read any of his other books.

I just finished Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy.  Currently I am reading a collection of short stories written by Franz Kafka - some are quite interesting!

Kraken is fun, but it's not typical of his books that I've read. The others are darker and more subversive of fantasy tropes, especially Iron Council. That book seems designed to stick in your throat. I have no idea if you'd get anything out of it, but for me it's one of the best pieces of fiction I've read recently.

____

Another fun book I finished recently was The Rise And Fall Of D.O.D.O. - a collaboration between Neal Stephenson (a longtime favorite of mine) and Nicole Galland, who I hadn't heard of before. It was funny as shit, with good characters, and full of Neat Ideas (in this case, about time travel, branching/parallel timelines, and the observer effect), all framed as a collection of journal entries, correspondence, found documents (including a turn at Anglo-Saxon epic poetry which had me laughing so hard I actually teared up), and transcripts of various records. Not quite as grand or complex as some of Stephenson's other books, but just as engaging.

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30 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Kraken is fun, but it's not typical of his books that I've read. The others are darker and more subversive of fantasy tropes, especially Iron Council. That book seems designed to stick in your throat. I have no idea if you'd get anything out of it, but for me it's one of the best pieces of fiction I've read recently.

____

Another fun book I finished recently was The Rise And Fall Of D.O.D.O. - a collaboration between Neal Stephenson (a longtime favorite of mine) and Nicole Galland, who I hadn't heard of before. It was funny as shit, with good characters, and full of Neat Ideas (in this case, about time travel, branching/parallel timelines, and the observer effect), all framed as a collection of journal entries, correspondence, found documents (including a turn at Anglo-Saxon epic poetry which had me laughing so hard I actually teared up), and transcripts of various records. Not quite as grand or complex as some of Stephenson's other books, but just as engaging.

Interesting.  It reminds me a bit of Stephen King's Dark Tower series.  I keep my eye out for it.

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On 6/21/2018 at 8:40 AM, FatherAlabaster said:

The first few novels were the weakest part of the series IMO. It got better in every way as it went along, most notably character development and pacing. The last books were written according to Jordan's detailed notes and IIRC the ending of the final novel was actually written by him. I didn't get any sense of rushing to tie things together - they'd started to come together well before the end. I had my doubts about bringing in a new author, but came away pleasantly surprised at how well it was handled. It's not high literature, but if you're in the mood to binge on entertaining epic fantasy, it's worth the time.

____

 

Yeah, interesting. I'm definitely intrigued by this series, and a part of me really wants to read it. But god, what an investment of time, launching into something like this. Your assessment of the end gives me some reassurance. I just worry that a series that is so long is going to annoy me with endless plot meanderings. 

As well as reading paper books - which at the moment is the History of Scotland -  I always have an audiobook going that I listen to for ten or fifteen minutes before sleep takes me in its loving embrace. I went through the first three Brother Cadfael novels by Ellis Peters - kind of like a Midsomer Murders set in medieval Britain, with a twelfth century monk solving crimes around the abbey. Great, wholesome stuff. 

Right now I'm halfway through listening to Conn Igguldon's 'Dunstan', about the tenth century Archbishop of Canterbury. It's pretty disappointing though and suffers from the shallowness of modern historical fiction. Like Bernard Cornwell, I find Igguldon just churns them out thick and fast, with little real art to it. Plus the character Dunstan is so damn unlikeable. 

I'm very particular about the reader of the audiobook. I have a favoured style and I'm sticking to it. 

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2 hours ago, Requiem said:

Yeah, interesting. I'm definitely intrigued by this series, and a part of me really wants to read it. But god, what an investment of time, launching into something like this. Your assessment of the end gives me some reassurance. I just worry that a series that is so long is going to annoy me with endless plot meanderings. 

As well as reading paper books - which at the moment is the History of Scotland -  I always have an audiobook going that I listen to for ten or fifteen minutes before sleep takes me in its loving embrace. I went through the first three Brother Cadfael novels by Ellis Peters - kind of like a Midsomer Murders set in medieval Britain, with a twelfth century monk solving crimes around the abbey. Great, wholesome stuff. 

Right now I'm halfway through listening to Conn Igguldon's 'Dunstan', about the tenth century Archbishop of Canterbury. It's pretty disappointing though and suffers from the shallowness of modern historical fiction. Like Bernard Cornwell, I find Igguldon just churns them out thick and fast, with little real art to it. Plus the character Dunstan is so damn unlikeable. 

I'm very particular about the reader of the audiobook. I have a favoured style and I'm sticking to it. 

They're easy reading. The plot is broad, but there are some very cool subplots. I love the way he fleshes out historical details through some of the characters' experiences. More of a journey than a destination overall, but hey, that's life, right...

I never read the Cadfael books but I liked the TV series. I'm a sucker for medieval abbey settings. Maybe because I loved Redwall so much as a kid (still do). I'm not sure why but I never watched the final episode. Now that I've forgotten most of the storylines, maybe it's time to revisit.

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55 minutes ago, FatherAlabaster said:

They're easy reading. The plot is broad, but there are some very cool subplots. I love the way he fleshes out historical details through some of the characters' experiences. More of a journey than a destination overall, but hey, that's life, right...

I never read the Cadfael books but I liked the TV series. I'm a sucker for medieval abbey settings. Maybe because I loved Redwall so much as a kid (still do). I'm not sure why but I never watched the final episode. Now that I've forgotten most of the storylines, maybe it's time to revisit.

The Cadfael books are miracles. The writing is so engaging - she really understands the goodness in people. Even the villains are likeable.

The first book is a little quirky but she locks on to a fantastic style by book 2. If you’re looking for some late-night relaxing I recommend the newly released audiobooks read by Stephen Thorne. Fabulous voice perfectly suited to the quaint Britishness of it all. He only did the first three though and I was saddened when I discovered there were no more after book 3.

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12 minutes ago, Requiem said:

The Cadfael books are miracles. The writing is so engaging - she really understands the goodness in people. Even the villains are likeable.

The first book is a little quirky but she locks on to a fantastic style by book 2. If you’re looking for some late-night relaxing I recommend the newly released audiobooks read by Stephen Thorne. Fabulous voice perfectly suited to the quaint Britishness of it all. He only did the first three though and I was saddened when I discovered there were no more after book 3.

I'll see if I can get the books in at the library. The local library here is great - a beautiful stone building from the 1890s with a decent selection of fiction, a dedicated reference floor, and a large children's area. It has reciprocal lending agreements with a lot of other regional libraries, so I can usually fill in gaps in their collection with a request at the reference desk. 

I think the last book I heard on audio was a vinyl of Ursula K. LeGuin's The Tombs Of Atuan, which I found at a public library when I was seven or eight. I remember loving the music, but I think the story would have stuck with me a lot better if I'd read the thing.

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7 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

I'll see if I can get the books in at the library. The local library here is great - a beautiful stone building from the 1890s with a decent selection of fiction, a dedicated reference floor, and a large children's area. It has reciprocal lending agreements with a lot of other regional libraries, so I can usually fill in gaps in their collection with a request at the reference desk. 

I think the last book I heard on audio was a vinyl of Ursula K. LeGuin's The Tombs Of Atuan, which I found at a public library when I was seven or eight. I remember loving the music, but I think the story would have stuck with me a lot better if I'd read the thing.

Music in an audiobook? I guess I'm just talking about straight readings rather than dramatisations. You should give one a shot one day, I think you'll be surprised. I listen to them once I've become too tired to read the written page. I turn the light off and listen on headphones in the dark. It's really peaceful. 

Audible.com has a free audiobook for everyone who signs up. Try it, then close your account. I suggest the first Cadfael, 'A Morbid Taste for Bones' read by Stephen Thorne. Do it, then we can exchange notes. 

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Nice thread, right on cue. I'm about to read something a little bit more difficult than my usual stuff: Simulacra and Simulations by Jean Baudrillard (Simulacra are copies that depict things that either had no original to begin with, or that no longer have an original. Simulation is the imitation of the operation of a real-world process or system over time)

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On 1/21/2018 at 9:21 AM, Ikard said:

Yeah. A whiny, homophobic piece of nonsense. I also can't stand Hubbard although I love a lot of his work.

Homophobia was as common as calling a bundle of sticks by its proper name back then. I don't think it really does much to call out a man for what nearly everyone was guilty of in that era. 

 

 

 

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21 hours ago, Vampyrique said:

Homophobia was as common as calling a bundle of sticks by its proper name back then. I don't think it really does much to call out a man for what nearly everyone was guilty of in that era. 

 

 

 

Yes but he was a known bigot in many other realms. I also have profound disgust for his cult and its current leader so youll have to forgive me but my opinion of Hubbard will always be low.

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12 hours ago, Ikard said:

Yes but he was a known bigot in many other realms. I also have profound disgust for his cult and its current leader so youll have to forgive me but my opinion of Hubbard will always be low.

Suppressive person alert! Suppressive person alert! Please go to your nearest auditor and account for all of your overts and withholds!

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1 hour ago, Vampyrique said:

Suppressive person alert! Suppressive person alert! Please go to your nearest auditor and account for all of your overts and withholds!

Disagree. It's up to each person to decide for themselves what they are and aren't going to put up with. Choosing not to listen to a certain band or read a certain author - or recognizing what about their worldview doesn't mesh with your own - isn't the same as trying to make that decision for other people.

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3 hours ago, FatherAlabaster said:

Disagree. It's up to each person to decide for themselves what they are and aren't going to put up with. Choosing not to listen to a certain band or read a certain author - or recognizing what about their worldview doesn't mesh with your own - isn't the same as trying to make that decision for other people.

That's a given, but I can't tell you how many reviews of old books I glance at that are full of complaints, rated poorly or criticized harshly because the author's views were not - and couldn't possibly be - in sync with contemporary views, or if certain aspects of everyday life back then manifested themselves within the story. Why continue reading the author's works then whilst complaining about morals if the moral incongruity between then and now is so well known?

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